Salat According to the Quran and a Critical Remark
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I see hesitation in your "respect". I wish to emphasize the love for the Holy Messenger (sawa) and His Family is the root and foundation of this religion.
Perhaps you are less acquainted with historical events. The bloodshed in Karbala was the direct result of the so-called piety and righteousness in putting the Quran ahead of The Messenger and His Ahlul Bayt who were the friends of Allah. According to the Uthmanis (Proto-Sunnis) that everyone must abide by the Quran that the Ulil 'Amr must be obeyed as mentioned in the Quran therefore anyone opposing this can be murdered.
That day, the blessed head of Imam Al-Husayn (as) was severed, the women of the Family of the Prophet (sawa) were humiliated, his children and cousins were all murdered except few that survived to tell the tale. Syeda Zainab (as) lamented O Prophet (sawa), see what your community has done to us, they brought us in shackles!
When the head of Imam Al-Husayn (as) was severed they chanted Allahu Akbar! Then more bloodshed came..
offtopic
This is the thread about Salat.
Looking forward to more clarifications on that subject.
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The major difference between those who believe in ONLY the Quran and the shias and sunni crowd is that they consider God to be their teacher. They study the Deen and form their own understanding from the Quran only perspective.
It's not just a major difference. Religion and the Deen (in arabic) of Allah (in arabic) are two fundamentally different things. They are not different versions or styles of faith. The are two totally different approaches to life, reason and Allah. They are two totally different ways of using your mind, leading to opposite directions. The more deep you get into elaborate religion, the further away from real life and the natural system of Allah you get. Religion encourages blind faith in historic and fantastic fairy tales, with no regard for logic, reason and sense.
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Was prophet Isa any less than Husayn?
Isa (as) was a great martyr, we have lots of respect for him. However he was only one single person crucified.
Imam Husayn (as) was not alone in Karbala, his whole family was mercilessly slaughtered! His head was severed, his ribs were crushed! The problem lied in the interpretation of ulil amr minkum. If you interpret it independently it means to obey any person in power.
I have emphasized this many times over, you have to study political history. You have rightly pointed it our that the Ummavis or Uthmanis were manipulating the Quran. Amongst those accused were Marwan bin Hakam (May Allah curse him), Ubaydullah ibn Ziyad (May Allah curse him), Hujjaj Al-Thaqafi (May Allah curse him) and Abdul Malik bin Marwan (May Allah curse him), allow me to quote to you
Marwan ibn al-Hakam had these burnt since the copies of Qur'an ordered by Sayyidna 'Uthman (radhiAllaho anhu) were ready at that time, and a consensus of the ummah had already been reached to the effect that following these copies of the Qur'an, in script and arrangement of Surahs, was obligatory. Marwan ibn al-Hakam thought it inadvisable to let any copy which was contrary to this script and arrangement remain in existence (Fath al-Bari, 9/16)
Those were explanations given, if the problem was only arrangement I am sure the Quran will not be burnt. Burning a book is a crime what more burning a Quran.
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This is the thread about Salat.
Looking forward to more clarifications on that subject.
Sorry cant help it!
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It's not just a major difference. Religion and the Deen (in arabic) of Allah (in arabic) are two fundamentally different things. They are not different versions or styles of faith. The are two totally different approaches to life, reason and Allah. They are two totally different ways of using your mind, leading to opposite directions. The more deep you get into elaborate religion, the further away from real life and the natural system of Allah you get. Religion encourages blind faith in historic and fantastic fairy tales, with no regard for logic, reason and sense.
You are quite right. They are polar opposites. One of the major reasons of this belief in fantastic fairy tales and giving servants of Allah superhuman status stems from a poor understanding of the role of Iblis and the art of deception.
As far as ritual prayer is concerned, everything aside I find it hard to believe Quran teaches us to perform certain physical actions while facing towards a cubical structure containing a black stone. It just does not appeal to reason.
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Imam Husayn (as) was not alone in Karbala, his whole family was mercilessly slaughtered! His head was severed, his ribs were crushed!
Even if this were to be true, what does this have to do with the main message of the Quran which is to remain on the straight path and not follow the misguided?
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the Quran which is to remain on the straight path and not follow the misguided?
this is the problem you Quranist face, what Allah has promised to protect is the secured tablet, often mentioned in the Quran not the current compilation we have today.
Compilation was not the only thing done, if it is possible you can look at some of the ancient Quranic manuscripts, the earliest script we have is the Kufic script (which did not belong to the Uthmanic era) which is already unreadable, because there is absolutely no markings in the Arabic alphabet.
The Ummayads have toiled to standardise, improve the Arabic script and also burn other rival copies. The names i have mentioned in my earlier post are not any normal rulers but where vicious and ruthless animals particularly Hajjaj bin Yusuf (May Allah curse him ceaselessly) bombarded and destroyed the Kabba.
He was largely responsible for the standardization of the Quran and there is general disagreement when Quran crystallised in its final form.
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this is the problem you Quranist face, what Allah has promised to protect is the secured tablet, often mentioned in the Quran not the current compilation we have today.
Compilation was not the only thing done, if it is possible you can look at some of the ancient Quranic manuscripts, the earliest script we have is the Kufic script (which did not belong to the Uthmanic era) which is already unreadable, because there is absolutely no markings in the Arabic alphabet.
The Ummayads have toiled to standardise, improve the Arabic script and also burn other rival copies. The names i have mentioned in my earlier post are not any normal rulers but where vicious and ruthless animals particularly Hajjaj bin Yusuf (May Allah curse him ceaselessly) bombarded and destroyed the Kabba.
He was largely responsible for the standardization of the Quran and there is general disagreement when Quran crystallised in its final form.
Sooooooooooooooo, what does this have to with salat?
God bless
peace
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So what is the secured tablet?
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Salaam,
So God could not keep the Quran preserved? It gets worse and worse, but it is not like it would help me follow the tradition of Shia's ahl bayt anyway. In that case I follow the general Message of God. Why follow idolaters?
And sorry about continuing off-topic. I will stop.
God bless you
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So what is the secured tablet?
A red herring!
So typical of a delusional pathological liar, such as yourself.GOD sent us al-ikr (6510), and promised to preserve it (159).
Al-ikr (i.e. the Reminder, or Memorial) is but another name for the Quran (4141, 3849, 156, etc).No "secured tablet" here sir.
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this is the problem you Quranist face, what Allah has promised to protect is the secured tablet, often mentioned in the Quran not the current compilation we have today.
And your point is?
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Peace all
I never debate/ argue with hard core SUNNIS and SHIAS because doing this is equal to brickwall
So leave them alone,
As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least their affair is with Allah He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did. 6159
The prophet had no concern with those people who separated themselves from the QURAN CLUB and joined the HADITH CLUB / MULLAH CLUB / INFALLIBLE IMAMAM CLUB and we also do not have concern with them let them go to ....
Of those who divided their religion, and became sects; each faction pleased with what they have 3032
These people are pleased with what they have HADITH, MULLAH, INFALLIBLE IMAMS
Then We will surely extract from every sect those of them who were worst against the Most Merciful in insolence 1969
THEY WILL PAY THE PENALTY FOR NEGLECTING THE QURAN AND JOINING THE CLUB OF HADITH / MULLAH / INFALLIBLE IMAM
And the Messenger will say, ?My Lord, my people TOOK THIS QURAN AS AN OBSOLETE 2530
http//snag.gy/OYyoF.jpg
OBSOLETE Cause (a product (QURAN) or idea) to be or become OBSOLETE by replacing it with something new (HADITH, MULLAH, INFALLIBLE IMAMS)
No longer used (QURAN) because something newer (HADITH, MULLAH, INFALLIBLE IMAMS) exists replaced by something newer
No longer (QURAN) used by anyone.
Thanks
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Peace all
just for clarification and trying to keep up with the topic, Does the Quran mention placing your forehead on something natural clay/stone etc as the Shia's perform the salat.
I know some of them (Shia) practice 3 times a day salat with accordance to the Quran's mention.Peace
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Peace Unplugged
just for clarification and trying to keep up with the topic, Does the Quran mention placing your forehead on something natural clay/stone etc as the Shia's perform the salat.
I know some of them (Shia) practice 3 times a day salat with accordance to the Quran's mention.Peace
Salam Unplugged ,
No there is no rubbing of the forehead on the ground as something allaah ( swt) required , but if someone do it deliberately then .... , the mark mentioned in 4829 are withing or inside the face not above or on the face ( fi/withing or inside - not above or on ) , the mark are from long concentration to allaah physically , intellectually and practically by following the commands in social life.
see the quot below for more clarification , and the link above for the whole thread , you may find it helpful and Hope you no longer stays unplugged )
same as we saw previously about "Bowing down / Rukkaa " in many verses the word "Prostrating / S'jada " come after the movement of "fell /kharra " , witch mean that the the imperative verb prostrate/ As'jud mean fallout into the ground , and then incline the upper body down to the ground , the quran explain this movement clearly by the following description
16 - 48
16 - 48 Have they not observed all things that Allah hath created, how their shadows incline to the right and to the left, making prostration unto Allah, and they are lowly?
The movement of prostration is the same as the movement of the shadow of an abject .
17 - 107
17 - 107 Say, "Believe in it or do not believe. Indeed, those who were given knowledge before it - when it is recited upon them, they fall to their chins in prostration
So simply fall to their chins in prostrating mean inclining to the angle where the chin is down to the ground , there is no mentioning that t(he forehead should touch the ground , the verse 48 - 29 was wrongly explained
48 - 29 Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating , seeking bounty from Allah and pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Taourat. And their description in the Anjil is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward.
There is diffrence between " on / fi " and "Above /Aala " , " on / fi " something mean withing , inside through etc , "Above /Aala " mean on the top of , something you can see and touche above something you can see and touch . the expression find in verse 48 - 29 Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration is from the first meaning , the mark that are on their faces from prostration is on all the face as you can remark not a black dot in the forehead , if the meaning was about signaling a dot mark in the forehead the Quran would use the word "Above /Aala " instead of " on / fi " , so simply the mark that is on the face as a trace from prostration is due to the long concentration / fixation while the believers are in state of "prostration/ Al-sujud"
39 - 9
39 - 9 Is one who is "Qanet / fixed" during periods of the night, prostrating and standing , fearing the Hereafter and hoping for the mercy of his Lord, ? Say, "Are those who know equal to those who do not know?" Only they will remember people of understanding.
so the mark on the faces is due to the trace caused by long period where the believers are fixed / concentrated while prostrating and is not due to the forehead touching the ground.
I highly signal that both action / movement bow down and prostrate/ As'jud has no value or meaning without the reasoning and the action of the heart / , when the believers used to prostrate when they heard the verses of the Quran its because their heart repent to it its a sign movement of submitting to Allah , they acknowledge and uphold the meaning and they accepted it upon them wither as a information about the unseen or as structures or command decreed-ed above them , so the point is that bow down and prostrate/ As'jud are not a blind movement and this is why there is no counting while doing them as counting is simply against and disturbing the concept of "Fixed state / Al-Qonout " and "concentration / Al-Khouchoa? " both concept are recommended to be achieved .
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Root
Affectionate surrender of one's will and freedom/liberty-Forehead on the ground.
- Basic initial meanings Feel of reverence and its expression through gesture-body language-lowering of head in state chin moving towards chest and gaze going down. It is a relational word-a relationship between the Reverent and the Revered. Reverent and the Revered could be any object or person.
Advanced meanings in the changed relational field when the Revered is the Only One-The Absolute-The Only Independent-The Self Subsisting-The Creator-The Supreme Exalted-Sovereign Sustainer Lord of the Universes
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Dear "man of faith" and I hope you really are.
What makes you think that following the outlines of the Quran is enough to be faithful to Allah?
If the Quran is the same message as the bible and the old testaments and not a continuity and a conclusion to them, then what is the point of sending the prophet Muhammad with such a heavy message and making him struggle to deliver it for no more than a repetition of what was previously stated and which as you claim could still be recovered from the corrupted Gospel of jesus?
Do you really think that following the Quran alone, regardless to the prophet's teatching and Hadith , is enough to find the path to Allah? Do you really think that you alone can understand the verses an draw conclusions upon which you find the way to Allah?
Have you ever read this verse of the Quran"He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding. (Aal-e-Imran verse 7)
Can you please tell me who are "those who are firmly rooted in knowledge"?
Can you be sure that you can understand the verses of the Quran in the right way and not your own mislead way?
Isn't it obvious to you that the prophet did really delivered the message but didn't have time to explain in person all the details to us, hence we do really need the help from those who are firmly rooted in knowledge?
Do you know who those are?
Allah says
Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying. (Al-Ahzab verse 33)When he was asked about who the "people of the House" are, the prophet answered
According to hadith from sunni books (such as sahih muslim) and shia books those people are MUHAMMAD, ALI , FATIMA, HASSAN and HUSSEIN.
You definitely admit that when Allah desires something he just says "Be".
(Our word for a thing when We intend it, is only that We say to it, Be, and it is.)You previously stated
When Ibrahim asked if God's covenant would cover his offspring God replied that His covenant does not cover the unrighteous.
(Just for information God's covenant is not only a sort of agreement it is Al-Imama.)
Here is the Aya
"And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He."(Al-Bakara verse 124)Do you know that banou Umayyah and banou Al-Abass-who violated al-Cilapha- are offsprings of Ibrahim?
They are the real unrighteous who shall not be covered by God's covenant even though they sit on the thrown, they are not to be followed as representing allah! As you know Ibrahim was declared as Iman and never happened to be a king with a thrown or whatever.One the other hand, Ahlulbait are purified according to Allah's will, and they are the ones to be followed.
Here comes the aya
Say I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives. (Ash-Shura verse 23)
For information it is not the word love that allah used in arabic it is "al-mawaddah" which means more than just love, it is to love and to be faithful to something.
Of course they rewarded the prophet by violating Al-Cilapha first from Ali-the True Imam- then from his offspring, and they were not satisfied until they slaughtered Al-Hussein in Karbala who was seeking repair in al-Ummah.Do you know that the prophet in his last days kept saying this
I am leaving with you the two weightiness (most heavy things), the book of Allah and my household. If you laid hold on both of them you shall never get lost.
I enjoin you by Allah concerning my household (three times).Can you see now that those people who must be followed after the prophet are Ahlulbait?
The problem is that most muslims followed the lead of the one who said "The prophet is overwhelmed with pain, the book of Allah is sufficient for us", this event known as "the shame of the day of thursday" happened when the prophet asked his companions during his last illness to bring him an inkwell so he could write down something after-which they would never get lost.
It is obvious what the prophet intended to write, that man clearly anticipated it so he cut the way by saying what he said and implicitly revealing what he fears we don't want the lead of Ahlulbait if we get lost, the book of Allah is sufficient.
So this man is the father of all contradictor explanations (tafseer) of the Quran, that is because he withdraws the explanations of Ahlulbait because it leads of them being in power as True-Imams according to Allah's wish. Then he found himself, he and his fellows, obliged to stand up for misleading explanations against Ahlulbait, and to do so they had to invent a lot of hadiths, but first they had to get rid of all that might lead to Ahlulbait as righteous heirs of the legacy. So, after the death of the prophet they forbid the transmission of Hadith, they burnt all the parchments of hadith they found with the compagnions, all under the cover of protecting the Islam. This went on for many years until the library of hadith was rich with every kind of hadith that satisfies their wills, going from glorifying themselves, to attributing faults to the prophet's person, to improvising lies about his personal lives, worshipping some bad people known to be munafikeen, and so on with no one daring to reject this either under the threaten of sword or the seduction of money or power except for a very few number of companions who where either killed or exiled like what was done to Abu-Thar Al-Ghifari.In conclusion, with this mentality, it is not surprising to find a lot of contradiction in the tafseer books. However the pure source of tafseer is still with those who are firmly rooted in knowledge Ali and the eleven Imams from his offspring, which they got from the prophet himself who taught Ali one thousand doors of knowledge, each of them lead to one thousand other doors, this divine knowledge was passed down to the rest Imams.
Finally, and after this I don't know according to what proof you claim that shia are idolaters???!
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Salam Alkitab
17 - 107 Say, "Believe in it or do not believe. Indeed, those who were given knowledge before it - when it is recited upon them, they fall to their chins in prostration
So simply fall to their chins in prostrating mean inclining to the angle where the chin is down to the ground , there is no mentioning that t(he forehead should touch the ground , the verse 48 - 29 was wrongly explained
So this means ayat 17107 is not a commandment for do sujud?