Abortion?
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Experience occurs from the point of intersection of a sperm and egg. That is when the spark of Life animates and begins Witnessing.
Appreciably this is a emotionally heavy debate but as again I will say thus the Way of Allah is wholesome, pure and wholesome. And gentle, gentlest. This extends to even the most uncanny aspects of life. For instance the fighting of oppressors/aggressors is still the gentlest fashion for Life as a whole to move forwards. To leave them to continue is worse for all! Both the oppressor continues in suffering deep within, and too the suffering of the oppressed. There is no satisfaction in being distanced from The God, in any way shape or form.
And I see people using the 'scientific' interpretation. If only you had known! The bridge between science and spirit is fusing and they are becoming of the same thing. Experience does not even begin in the brain. Consciousness pervades the cosmos, the Consciousness of The God. Every living substance feels and lives and has Self-Identity. A single celled bacterium has Self-Identity, it indeed does have a Soul/nafs. Of course some Souls/nafs are more developed than others and in the case of the human we are blown with the Ruh/Spirit/Breath which adds something more to the picture.
Now if on the day of judgement you would assuredly be asked about every single ant you stepped on in your life, for everything shall be asked of, everything and God is most Forgiving, Compassionate, Forbearing, then do you see wholesomeness in that?
There may also be conflation between two paths. The medical/last-resort abortion procedure where the mother is in dire need; we have cases -
A) Baby survives if birthed, mother dies
B) Baby dies either way, mother survives
C) Baby dies, mother dies if unabortedCase A seems the most nuanced. But is it? Let us consider The God is the Bestower of Life and also That who takes it away. Life belongs to The God, it is The God's property/creation to describe it one way yet it is far beyond property, it is Beingness, The God's Love far exceeds any love a human can present, for man is weak and The God is the Source of all strength.
So let us distinguish between that purpose and the far more common reason for taking of the life when two people decide to have sex for fun and realise a baby is part of the package, forgetting that for 4 billion years this is the primary reason for it. Fun is part of sex, sex is not part of fun. Put it that way. When sex is made as part of fun, hearts get hurt and people get raised for questioning by the One, the Supreme.
In one fashion of looking at it, an act occurs and a divine Gift is bestowed. In another fashion, fun is had and there is something unwanted which must be uh, terminated. We all know which of the two perspectives happens to make more sense here! When man is Just to his Lord and Maintainer, then The God is Graceful, when man is unjust to his Lord and Sustainer, then The God is Forgiving, Merciful, Just, Wise.One thing is for sure if the mother dies carrying the baby to term, she will not be asked about it.
I will say one thing. I remember the very point I entered into existence. And it was before even being a fetus. I have remembered this all through childhood, I keep it dear and close to my heart especially because most people do not remember or feel that they do not, at least - they cannot even comprehend that someone could!
I remember sitting in the womb and hearing the outside world and developing, for months, feeling that "this is taking a little while", blissfully and rapturously excited to get out of there and start Being. This is before I knew how babies were made or that they were even held in the womb, keep in mind.
If you look within, you too may remember this. Either way, from this Experience, as a conscious developing fetus of times gone by, I feel that abortion in any way shape or form is highly questionable.Ultimately I may say one thing please just face up to Reality and the sheer brunt of what is going on. The God fully knows and understands your emotions. The God created your emotions, created and fashioned their depth, intricacy, nuancity, complexity, knows your innermost desires. The God seeks for us all wholesomeness, righteousness, purity, ease of living, relaxation, tenderness, gentleness. If you have got yourself into a situation, believe me when I say this The God will get you out of it. Man cannot bring himself out of suffering, it is exclusively The God's domain to do that. But it takes an understanding of WHO puts food on your plate, WHO clothes you, WHO heals you when you are sick to truly comprehend this facet. Until you do, you may find yourself being led by the fancy and pleasing opinions of other men but this is no substitute for divine knowingness.
When it is a human's decision to terminate a Life which The God created, that is a Human's Supreme Will versus the God's will. Perhaps with the God's Will - Let us see!
peace
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There is no aya in Qur'an that condemns or prohibits abortion. And there is no hint that the Qur'an considers an embryo or a fetus a child or person. I the Qur'an does not prohibit it, it is not prohibited. En 4.34 the salihat qanitat women are called hafiDhaat lilghaib, that is the virtuous are called guardians for the unseen that God guarded, so virtuous women are guardians of the embryo and the fetus. However there is not prohibition of abortion.
wishful thinking.
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Whinful thinking yours. There is no prohibition of abortion in the Qur'a n, no matter how much you twist whatgever you want to make it mean what you want the Qur'an to say. The body of a woman is not a public property. It is between God and the woman not between society and the woman. Nowhere is it prohibited. Again I quote
"4.34 ... and virtuous and devout women are guardians for the unseen with what God guarded..."
Whether it is wrong or right it is between the woman and God, not between the woman and the public. God does not prohibit it. Those who do it will meet their Creitor just as the males that use women and leave no strings attached will have to answer to God. God knows. People do not know. People are tyrants when it comes to judging women who are in predicament. God has not given anybody that right.
You may twist words in the Qur'an to make it mean whatever you want, twist to your full pleasure, abortion is not prohibited in the Qur'an. God has not given anybody capacity to jkedge that. it is between Him and the woman, He has reserved for Himself that judgement. Men are not fit to judge that. Tyrany is the result of their intervening in that kind of thing. God does not approve of oppression. The keenness in fiscalising the privacy of women, prying to see how many things they can prohibit and punish and control is shocking specially when so little so very little is done to help them out in dire situations- It is shocking that societies run morally havoc and nobody does a damn thing but they wnat to get inside the woman and fiscalise her. Very shocking and very disgusting and UNQURANIC.
Salaam
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Witty questions won't get the Qur'an to say what it does not say nor grant to anybody what God has kept for Himself.
I find it commendable that you do not abort yourself, but I do not find virtuous at all to pry into other peoples business which God has kept for Himself nor to arrogate for self what is the purview of God. It seems to me that you do not trust women, but do you not trust God? God does trust Himself and keeps this matter to Himself, why so much keenness on wretching it from Him then?
Salaam
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Resorting to ad hominem and logical fallacies won't make the gibberish you say anymore valid! Your personal parti pris lacks any sense of objectivity, reason, morality, or any factual backing-up for that matter. Whether you like it or not, the fact remains that you've brought nothing to the table but mindless naysaying. Don't let the communication stop though! Keep talking. Someday you might just give tongue to something valid.
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Salaam,
Can anyone answer this
If a woman is raped and finds out that she is pregnant, does that mean she is obliged to keep the embryo until she gives birth to the fetus?
What would the society think of the child born because of rape?I am not asking the questions because I support abortion. I don't support abortion because it is so selfish especially when it is done by married couples or unmarried love couples who commit fornication/adultery. But what about rape victims?
Sorry for asking this.
Regards,
Yuliana -
God knows why people do every and each thing they do or they do not do. So whether selfish or unselfish for having a child or not having it, raped or not raped, God knows. He is the Judge. Human justice is unfit for many things, but ppride seems to be in high spirits when it takes up God's attributions.
Salaam
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Salaam,
Can anyone answer this
If a woman is raped and finds out that she is pregnant, does that mean she is obliged to keep the embryo until she gives birth to the fetus?
What would the society think of the child born because of rape?I am not asking the questions because I support abortion. I don't support abortion because it is so selfish especially when it is done by married couples or unmarried love couples who commit fornication/adultery. But what about rape victims?
Sorry for asking this.
Regards,
YulianaI have to believe that God would take the rape victim's opinion to account, as the distress can cause the growing baby to die anyway, in a much more painful way for both mother and baby. It is a form of double victimisation, as technically the rapist would have an equal right to see the child, perhaps in some cases even a stronger right than even the mother who would still be reliving the pain of being brutally sexually attacked, and this is just insane.
Unfortunately, the anti-abortion crowd don't seem to care about this and would be quite happy to see the mother die of suicide than have an abortion in early term.
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If a woman is raped and finds out that she is pregnant, does that mean she is obliged to keep the embryo until she gives birth to the fetus?
In this unfortunate case, aborting the fetus would be a justified option She shouldn't be forced to carry the rapist's child (against her will), or be held responsible for a crime she's not guilty of. She's the victim here. And GOD knows best.
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Peace Aamer
The answer for your question "Where does the Quran's stand on abortion? " could well be expressed with
"Why do one need to abort?"
) Good one. Why we need that.
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God knows why anybody, always a woman, would need or not need to abort. God knows. Men do not. They may be proud enough to think that they are judges. God in the Qur'an does not state such a thing but keeps the relation between the matrices and Himself for Himself. We are overstepping gravely when we intrude in what God has kept for Himself.
Salaam
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The issue really comes down to the fact of 'when does life begin' and whether or not you have the right to 'intervene and terminate that said/possible life'.
? We learn that God has made life sacred
"Now let man but think from what he is created?
?We have honoured the Children of Adam; provided them with transport on land and sea; given them for sustenance things good and pure; and conferred on them special favours above a great part of Our Creation.
"Do not kill yourselves, for verily Allah has been to you most merciful"
"...and (Allah) is the one, who gave you life, then shall He ordain you to die, then shall He give you your life again, truly mankind is ungrateful"
"...Take not life, which God has made sacred, except by way of justice and law. Thus does He command you, so that you may learn wisdom" (6151).? It is the woman's body and therefore she should be free to do what she deems necessary in any situation
Pro-abortion/Pro-choice will say that what is in the womb is lesser in value and therefore can be treated differently and can be done with how the mother wishes as it is dependent on the mother for all things.
I do not agree on placing a lesser value on what is in the womb. I feel that this view is held firstly because people do not believe in the one true god / creator. Furthermore, it?s easy to treat the what is in the womb differently because you do not see it, nor can it speak or have a say.
God is our creator and to god belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. We are dependent on god for everything; we are not independent. How much of your life or body is yours when you are dependent on god for every ounce of sustenance?"The one who has created me, He will guide me
"He is the one who feeds me and gives me to drink
"And if I am sick, he is the one who cures me
"And the one who will make me die and then bring me to life
?And the one whom I hope will forgive my mistakes on the Day of Judgement? The foetus is not a human being yet; it cannot live outside the uterus on its own.
Just as god has created the mother, god has also created what is in the womb.
"We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then from a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed ... and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes".
We see that the process of creation is described as having stages. God created the universe in a staged process. We know that all animals have a gestation period which has a known process. Cells have a stage by stage process of replication, as does DNA. More specifically, god is in control of the process. We know that god does as it wills, that god is capable of all things and that for god all things are easy. If what is inside the womb is a creation of god, then clearly you cannot disregard it or relegate it to an insignificant level and do as you wish with it.
There is a clear process outlined by god for a good reason, and I believe that this indicates that the whole process and what is created during this time is of great significance. I believe the detailing of the creation of the human being by god is to not only meant to highlight the significance of the process but to make us ponder on just about everything which god has created and the power which god possesses which enables it to create such things!
? Letting a baby be born into an unwanted home is cruel and could lead to later neglect.
? Many foster homes and orphanages are beyond capacity, putting a child into the foster care system would way even heavier on already scarce resources.
? All children should be wanted and born into homes that are prepared to love and care for them, emotionally and financially.
The above arguments are not valid as god makes it clear that god is the provider.
You shall not kill your children due to fear of poverty. We provide for them, as well as for you. Killing them is a gross offense.
God makes it clear that not only does God provide for the child but God also provides for the parent(s) ? All are taken care of by god.? Fear of death for mother if continuing with pregnancy in late stages.
This is interesting to me and I would appreciate further discussion on this. God says that only god knows the appointed term of each soul. So fearing that you may die is not the same as knowing that you will die, and therefore just because you fear or think that you may die does not mean that you actually will die. So if you terminate the pregnancy to save the mother?s life, then it would mean that you believe that death is certain. ON the other hand, the medical opinion is that death is likely if the pregnancy continues and thus the reason why most pregnancies are terminated at very late stages. So how do you reconcile the two matters? Does not terminating the pregnancy on the opinion that you will certainly die, contradict the word of god that only god knows when every soul will ?taste death??
? Cases of rape or incest, a baby could remind the woman of the horrible event she had experienced
This is where my view changes, maybe.
Rape is a gross injustice. I see rape as a type of oppression, and god has said that oppression is worse than killing. I think having a system in place to prevent/terminate the pregnancy would be acceptable as it would be part of seeking justice for the women. To carry to full term a child conceived through an act of violence is incredibly traumatising.
On the other hand, God says that no soul is burdened with more than it can handle. So would terminating the pregnancy concede that you cannot handle the situation, thus contradicting what god says about you being able to handle it?
Also, regarding the raping of women by the people of Pharaoh
And We had saved you from the people of Pharaoh, they were afflicting you with the worst punishment; they used to kill your children and rape your women; and in that was a great test from your lord.
The punishment meted out by the people of the pharaoh here is clearly described as tests by god for the Children of Israel. Therefore is rape, and the resulting pregnancy, also a test from God?
? Family planning ? getting pregnant when trying not to get pregnant
Contraception is not condemned in AQ ? unlike in Catholicism. However, not all contraception prevents conception 100%; they all have flaws. So what happens when you become pregnant? Well I believe that it comes back to the fact that god creates what it wills. God?s command is ?be and it is?. God says not to kill the children out of fear of poverty for god will provide for all. Therefore to seek to terminate the pregnancy would be an act of aggression against gods will. A story of my own I knew a guy once whose dad got the ?snip? as a means of contraception, and his wife still fell pregnant. So the guy ended up having a little sister! Was it not god?s will for that child to be born?
? My conclusion
Judging by what has been sent down it is made clear to us that life and death is a matter for god and that, apart from the taking of a life in the path of justice, we have absolutely no say, nor any power, over life and death and who lives and who dies, epitomised by the fact that we cannot even take our own life in any circumstance.
To intervene and terminate the process of human creation (abortion) would be a gross act of aggression against God?s will to create what he wills. This includes, abortions performed in the first trimester. Foetal development in the first trimester includes- A primitive face takes form with large dark circles for eyes, the mouth, lower jaw, and throat are developing. Blood cells are taking shape, and circulation will begin. I cannot believe that society is OK with intervening and destroying this creature. How much more 'human' does something have to be for people to draw the line and say no more after this?
brickwall
Peace
Al.
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Salaam,
I think Quran is talking about children that have been born already. In the past it was difficult to abort the pregnancy early on anyway due to lack of medical knowledge. So only way to abort was by killing the fetus by jumping or beating the belly hard which I doubt any mentally sane woman would do.
Either way, it is emotionally touching to decide to have an abortion and I think basically no woman does it just for fun. It is a living being inside the woman's body after all.
It is a morally difficult question, but I think the choice is still up to the mother. It is she who answers in front of God and no other person.
There is also a question at what stage of the pregnancy. Getting rid of a very early fetus is not more horrible than killing sperms or a female egg. Yes, in the early stage it is not more aware than a sperm or an egg. It is just autonomous development taking place.
I cannot find anything which talks against abortion in the early stage of pregnancy at least. It is when most abortions take place anyway. The fetus is simply not much than a combination of cells growing.
Still I think most people decide not to have an abortion if there is no good cause. Rape victims have a good excuse to abort immediately, the mother might even mistreat the the child due to trauma. I cannot even understand someone who argues against this.
But also unwanted pregnancies, especially when the man leaves the woman for various reasons could be a valid reason. There are a lot of responsibilities when you have a baby and some people are unable to handle that duty.
There are however some modern issues with the technology to be able to recognize which gender the unborn baby has and some people may decide to abort on this basis. It is a moral problem indeed. But still it is the person have abortion who is responsible in front of God for this choice and not some people who propagate anti-abortion policies.
I think I went logically to the bottom of this issue. So killing a fetus in an early stage is not worse than wasting sperms or dropping the unfertilized egg during menstruation. However, the longer it goes on the pregnancy the bigger the feeling of guilt is as it is killing something that is alive however with a questionable self-awareness. Abortion late in pregnancy is dangerous to the life of the woman and most countries allow it only under special conditions, and then it is not a matter of religion.
Killing a born baby is illegal in all countries that I know of and is a logical law. It is also illegal in God's system as this is where God's verse ticks in.
Where we should draw the limit of crime against nature is difficult though. How late in pregnancy is morally acceptable?
Best is to let the fetus be after it starts to develop its brain and autonomous body organs I think in my opinion. This is when I believe the unborn baby gets some of its awareness and can possibly feel things. However, this is my personal understanding and might not be true.
God bless you
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I'm sure no one disagrees that abortion for the sake of the mother's health (including her mental health) is morally acceptable if there is a risk of serious damage to the mother And I believe the same goes for abortion where a pregnancy is the result of a crime (such as rape, incest, or child abuse) After all {No one should be burdened with more than they can bear No mother (or woman giving birth) shall be made to suffer because of her child} 2233 However, abortion for social reasons, such as pauperism, is unequivocally forbidden in the Quran (6151; 1731). This is my understanding, and GOD knows best.
SLM
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{No one should be burdened with more than they can bear No mother (or woman giving birth) shall be made to suffer because of her child} 2233
Thanks for this verse. I didn't know about it. Helps with understanding the extreme cases.
@ Man of Faith.
Awareness is an interesting concept.
You say that it is a lump of cells with no awareness of anything. But surely they're must be a level of awareness because otherwise how could it all happen? During menstruation the female body is active in preparing for the next fertile opportunity to get pregnant. Is that not awareness of the body, especially considering and that it is a natural process which the woman has no control over what's so ever??
An example of awareness Take a person who is fully awake and a person is fully asleep. It is fair to say that the former would have much more awareness than the latter, correct? What differentiates their level of awareness is the state in which they are in. By your logic it would mean that harm inflicted upon that person who is sleeping would be lesser in degree because they were in a lesser state of awareness due to being in a state of sleep, compared to harm being inflicted upon the person who is fully wake because they are completely 'aware' of themselves, their surroundings and of what is happening.
The stage of Fertilization The sperm will typically meet the egg in the lower quadrant of a fallopian tube and start to swarm around the egg. The ovum is covered by a protective field known as the zona pellucida, and in order for fertilization to take place, sperm cells must find a keyhole (or receptor) to unlock the zona pellucida, gain entrance, and burrow their way to the oocyte, the genetic core of the ovum. Only one sperm will connect with the oocyte, precipitating genetic combination - signaling that fertilization has just taken place. With fertilization, the ovum becomes the zygote or embryo and now passes through complex phases of cell division and differentiation. You have just conceived!
All the things that are involved in the above process have to be aware of what is happening, or else how can they participate in it and continue the process?? The sperm has to be 'aware' in some sort of form of what is happening otherwise how would it fertilise the egg?? It's not awareness in the way we living breathing humans understand and know it to be. Human creation is not like building a car or a house, because what is developed is not an inanimate object, it is living. And as it is a living creature, it's building blocks are also living. Out body is made of cells which are alive- they require sustenance to stay alive and perform all its functions.
Your words 'Best is to let the fetus be after it starts to develop its brain and autonomous body organs I think in my opinion'.
By the sixth week of foetal development the heart is formed and is pumping blood and by the seventh week the head develops.
Is the level of awareness still low and insignificant of the foetus which has a head with developing facial features and a heart pumping blood?Foetal development first trimester. http//www.mayoclinic.com/health/prenatal-care/PR00112
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Salaam,
How to define awareness is a difficult thing, but a pounding heart is not what I consider being aware. It is life on the other hand. I wrote about when the fetus has some sort of brain function and is not a collection of cells. I do not advocate abortion as an optimal solution but a way to solve a dilemma in someone's life. The abortion I was talking about was when a woman in an exposed situation becomes pregnant and there can be extensive trauma due to this. The body is of course amazing, but a heart is just a muscle which works like a pump.
But like I said, most women abort relatively early when the fetus is limited in growth and it is a difficult decision for most. Later abortions pose a great health risk and are normally not performed.
The head might have begun to develop, but brain functionality is doubtfully active by that stage. It is not operational yet.
Well. We can discuss which level of awareness we are talking about. I consider that true consciousness comes long after birth and the first activity is just based on reflexes or at best semi-consciousness.
Abortion is no easy thing and lots of people are against this practice, but making abortion illegal is also causing a lot of suffering while abortion in practice when it comes to "killing" the fetus in an early stage can hardly cause much suffering to the life that is in the woman's uterus. It does not have enough bodily functions to register any harm. It is not aware of this as it is not developed enough yet, hence why I wrote it is not much worse than wasting sperms or eggs.
God bless you