Adultery punishment
-
........ The way I see it, the most sensible character to me is an intelligent atheist which believes in the unseen and an entity that can be called God. Sound like a paradox? Well, such a paradox is probably more sensible than most things we see in life.
Peace
Also............,
Salam. Zulf, I think part of your post is missing in the end.....
Salam
-
Hi all. I have two questions for you
1.What is punishment for adultery in quran ? Is it 100 lashes or house arrest ?
- Does this part of verse (with bold) approve verses abrogation which is supported by sunni muslims?
415
any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.
"Allah ordain for them some (other) way"- does this mean that after this verse God sent a "better verse" and we should not follow this verse ?
peace
-
according to 242 the punishment for adultery is 100x lashes (both to male and female)
-
"or god makes for them a way" (415), for example her husband divorce her so she hasn't being confined for life. that's a way from god.
- Does this part of verse (with bold) approve verses abrogation which is supported by sunni muslims?
-
- Adultery is sexual intercourse with a married person.
- Illegal sexual intercourse is having sex with someone below the legal age or committing incest.
- Fornication and lewdness - having sex with anyone (and everyone) with no committment.
Ma malakat aymanukum = what your right hands possess = those who are rightfully yours.
Is it against God's Quranic laws to have sex with a boyfriend / girlfriend who is rightfully yours i.e not in the categories 1, 2, 3 above? -
salam
zina has no relation with sex for me.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605270.0No constraint in religion and we cannot punish others for what they do in their homes without harming anyone
Peace
In that thread what bro noshirk's fault is he claim the word zania came from root znn, but actually z-nun -ya' .Thus
.
I forget to reply your past post and the main reason of bro noshirk reject zina=adultery is this.
In that Arabic lisan, the word zannah-zannan suspect it/him or accusing.I dont know how to read Lisan al Arab properly, but in another dictionaries zana still refers to adultery.
Example There is terminology such like (zna al-mahram) means incest.
Peace
-
Ma malakat aymanukum = what your right hands possess = those who are rightfully yours.
Is it against God's Quranic laws to have sex with a boyfriend / girlfriend who is rightfully yours i.e not in the categories 1, 2, 3 above?Your girlfriend is NOT your possession. She is a free people with her full of right.
Person who fit the "ma malakat aymanukum" category is slave. And yes you may have sex with YOUR OWN slave. To have sex with someone else slave, you have to marry her first.
-
Person who fit the "ma malakat aymanukum" category is slave. And yes you may have sex with YOUR OWN slave. To have sex with someone else slave, you have to marry her first.
Then how about "malakat aymanukum" in verse 2431??
This is the basic of "malakat aymankum LiNKTo who we must maintain the oath, posses right hand is not limited on slave, I'm still on research, but if you have an idea I appreciate this.
Salam
-
Then how about "malakat aymanukum" in verse 2431??
To who we must maintain the oath, posses right hand is not limited on slave, I'm still on research, but if you have an idea I appreciate this.
Salam
there is no issue if we consider "malakat aymanukum" in 2431 as slave.
ayman (right hand) refer to power/authority. "malak" is possess.
the keyword is actually "malak/possess".
what kind of people is possessed by other people? Answer slave.our wife, our maid, our worker is not our possession.
peace
-
Salaam,
I got an idea; maybe the "right hand" expression relates to actions which leads to receiving the final record in your right hand on the Judgment Day and this argument is probably a metaphor. The other, traditional argument, sounds illogical in my opinion. I am not sure if this opens up for premarital relationships though, but I have always felt that the traditional understanding is of humanly origin and not from God.
Courtship I have wondered about and if God really forbids you to meet your potential future wife and socialize with her so that you are sure you make the right decision while you decide to marry her. As it is in traditional Islam you can barely meet your wife before marriage and get to know her. I did not mean it is okay with premarital sex, only verbal communication and activities.
But if you have an intention to marry the wife I think it is okay to have sex. Also you can loosely understand this to be the real "wedding ceremony" or final bond in the Biblical passages which are several thousand years old. I also understood that if you have premarital sex with a woman you have to marry her.
Also I have never believed that you own your wife or other humans in God's system and this is just a patriarchal invention.
God bless you
-
Your girlfriend is NOT your possession. She is a free people with her full of right.
Person who fit the "ma malakat aymanukum" category is slave. And yes you may have sex with YOUR OWN slave. To have sex with someone else slave, you have to marry her first.
You really remind me of a member named siki on here.
Where in the Quran does it say you can have sex with your own MMA? 425 disproves your argument.
Women may also have their own MMAs as per Qur'an. So according to you Qur'an also permits women to have sex with their MMAs? -
I understood the Arabic word Abd can mean servant as well as slave. If it does refer to slavery, how can it be just, righteous or acceptable for a person to even have slaves if freedom and justice is the core values of Islam?
Re having sex with their slaves / servants, is it required that slaves / servants first give consent to having sex with their owners or are owners allowed to rape their slaves / servants?? Does it apply to female owners of slaves or only the male owners? Can there even be true consent in such a relationship when all the power is held by the owner? Isn't consenting sex between 2 adults who love each more appropriate than having sex with slaves?
There are still countries where slavery is occurring today such as Mauritania and Niger. Slavery is a gross human rights abuse. How do we reconcile that with other Quranic values of peace, justice, freedom? Is it possible that "what your right hand possesses" is not literal in terms of actually possessing someone (owning), but a term which covers relationships that are considered legal and lawful? -
I understood the Arabic word Abd can mean servant as well as slave. If it does refer to slavery, how can it be just, righteous or acceptable for a person to even have slaves if freedom and justice is the core values of Islam?
15 alone you we devotee/serve and alone you we ask help
Peace ? in context of Qu'ran it always refers to a willing devotee/servant the god or toward someone/something else (idolatry) and never as unwilling slave or human owned by another also clear idolatry.
-
there is no issue if we consider "malakat aymanukum" in 2431 as slave.
ayman (right hand) refer to power/authority. "malak" is possess.
the keyword is actually "malak/possess".
what kind of people is possessed by other people? Answer slave.our wife, our maid, our worker is not our possession.
The problem is not as simple as like this.
The meaning of ayman is not limited on right, right hand but also "oath".Mamluq (not malak) simply mean planner or roller.We cannot judge too hasty if ayman is slave, you may read another similiar threads in Quran Question n comment board.
Where in the Quran does it say you can have sex with your own MMA?
What's MMA?
I understood the Arabic word Abd can mean servant as well as slave
This word also part of of Nusantaran languages especially Malay language family and possibly Bruneian Jawi too.And we use this word as servant not slave.
Example "Kami mengabdi kepada negara"
"We serve to country"Cheers!
-
No, it cannot mean the same thing malaka and malaka ayman...
If it was so there would no reason at all to used them jointly. and to put right in instead of left. malaka is something malaka ayman... is something else. Malaka is not merely posession it can also mean authroity without possession. So there would be no need if what was meant was merely that to coin the term ma malakat aymanuk, it is something else. In this forum it has beend ealt with very extensively, and this possession, property thing as if slave is really pure speculation with no basis on qur'an.
Salaam
-
Peace Earthdom,
MMA = Ma malakat aymanakum
Regards,
Yuliana -
Man of faith said But if you have an intention to marry the wife I think it is okay to have sex.
what??!!
diamantinehoneybunch said Where in the Quran does it say you can have sex with your own MMA? 425 disproves your argument.
Women may also have their own MMAs as per Qur'an. So according to you Qur'an also permits women to have sex with their MMAs?It said at 236, 7030
425 is about marry the MMA. Sure one have to marry her first if she doesn't his own slave. I've said it before.
Let's see general context of MMA in quran regarding to marriage and sex (43, 424-25, 3350, 3352). From that verses we know that the context is relationship between male master with his female MMA. So, although woman is also can have a slave she doesn't allowed to have premarital sex with him.
Lena said If it does refer to slavery, how can it be just, righteous or acceptable for a person to even have slaves if freedom and justice is the core values of Islam?
Islam never create slavery. It existed long time before Islam and happen in many part of the world. Its age is as old as war because most of slaves come from unredeemed war captives. I don't think to keep a captive in prison for life like wild animal is better than to involve him to society as a slave (mostly will be placed as maid or manual labor).
However, Islam has some policy that saw sympathy to slaves i.e. to do good with them, to free them as expiation, etc.
-
what??!!
It said at 236, 7030
425 is about marry the MMA. Sure one have to marry her first if she doesn't his own slave. I've said it before.
Let's see general context of MMA in quran regarding to marriage and sex (43, 424-25, 3350, 3352). From that verses we know that the context is relationship between male master with his female MMA. So, although woman is also can have a slave she doesn't allowed to have premarital sex with him.
Islam never create slavery. It existed long time before Islam and happen in many part of the world. Its age is as old as war because most of slaves come from unredeemed war captives. I don't think to keep a captive in prison for life like wild animal is better than to involve him to society as a slave (mostly will be placed as maid or manual labor).
However, Islam has some policy that saw sympathy to slaves i.e. to do good with them, to free them as expiation, etc.
MA MALAKAT AYMANUKUM means Those whom YOUR right hand possess.
In 425, GOD says marry ma malakat aymanukum and NOT for illicit sex. So what the heck is this illicit sex?
Are you playing abrogation game to Qur'an verses like Shafi'i did?Your high support towards having sexual intercourse with slaves really remind me of hadiths that say men may have coitus interruptus with female captives.
No wonder some people see islam as sex-maniac religion. I feel bad for people like you.
Just because slavery has already occurred since thousands of years ago, doesn't mean it is okay. GOD says many times in the Qur'an persecution / oppression is worse than murder. If GOD says to free slaves that means you must free your slaves. No slavery in islam. If islam allows slavery, then GOD would have not condemned Pharaoh in the Qur'an, instead GOD would have said bravo to Pharaoh.
Child marriage has existed for thousands of years, does that mean it is okay?
-
MA MALAKAT AYMANUKUM means Those whom YOUR right hand possess.
In 425, GOD says marry ma malakat aymanukum and NOT for illicit sex. So what the heck is this illicit sex?
Are you playing abrogation game to Qur'an verses like Shafi'i did?Your high support towards having sexual intercourse with slaves really remind me of hadiths that say men may have coitus interruptus with female captives.
No wonder some people see islam as sex-maniac religion. I feel bad for people like you.
Just because slavery has already occurred since thousands of years ago, doesn't mean it is okay. GOD says many times in the Qur'an persecution / oppression is worse than murder. If GOD says to free slaves that means you must free your slaves. No slavery in islam. If islam allows slavery, then GOD would have not condemned Pharaoh in the Qur'an, instead GOD would have said bravo to Pharaoh.
Child marriage has existed for thousands of years, does that mean it is okay?
bravo