Adultery punishment
-
MA MALAKAT AYMANUKUM means Those whom YOUR right hand possess.
In 425, GOD says marry ma malakat aymanukum and NOT for illicit sex. So what the heck is this illicit sex?
Are you playing abrogation game to Qur'an verses like Shafi'i did?Your high support towards having sexual intercourse with slaves really remind me of hadiths that say men may have coitus interruptus with female captives.
No wonder some people see islam as sex-maniac religion. I feel bad for people like you.
Just because slavery has already occurred since thousands of years ago, doesn't mean it is okay. GOD says many times in the Qur'an persecution / oppression is worse than murder. If GOD says to free slaves that means you must free your slaves. No slavery in islam. If islam allows slavery, then GOD would have not condemned Pharaoh in the Qur'an, instead GOD would have said bravo to Pharaoh.
Child marriage has existed for thousands of years, does that mean it is okay?
bravo
-
Salaam Zulf,
what??!!
culture shock ;D
Not entirely. But if you have sex then you should officially marry, at least according to some old customs. Of course some Middle-Eastern customs apply to Quran.
I deem sex without intention is wrong and that sex is binding to oaths.
God bless you
-
MA MALAKAT AYMANUKUM means Those whom YOUR right hand possess.
In 425, GOD says marry ma malakat aymanukum and NOT for illicit sex. So what the heck is this illicit sex?Illicit sex on that case is committing adultery with slave.
Your high support towards having sexual intercourse with slaves really remind me of hadiths that say men may have coitus interruptus with female captives.
I don't care what hadith says. All my argument is based on quran verses, not other source.
No wonder some people see islam as sex-maniac religion. I feel bad for people like you.
True believer shouldn't care too much of what people may think as long as he stick on God's guidance (quran).
Islam applies death penalty for certain crime. People want to say that Islam doesn't respect human right? Go ahead!
Islam stipulates that in some cases male has some advantages comparing to female. People want to say that Islam is unjust? Go ahead!
Islam allows polygamy. People want to say that Islam is retarded? Go ahead!True muslim worshiping God, not people's opinion.
Just because slavery has already occurred since thousands of years ago, doesn't mean it is okay. GOD says many times in the Qur'an persecution / oppression is worse than murder. If GOD says to free slaves that means you must free your slaves. No slavery in islam. If islam allows slavery, then GOD would have not condemned Pharaoh in the Qur'an, instead GOD would have said bravo to Pharaoh.
I never said that something is okay just because it occurred since long time ago, it so absurd! I just explain a bit historical background of slavery so we get a more precision view about it.
Based on quran, slavery (possessed people) as a social reality never be forbidden. Quran admits such reality and regulates it with certain rules.
Pharaoh condemned because he denied God's verses and he proclaimed himself as deity/god. That is nothing to do with the fact that he enslaved israelis.
-
Salaam,
What kind of polygamy are you talking about?
God bless you
-
Salaam,
Well, I meant more than that. It is not conditional according to you?
God bless you
-
Peace quranflea, all.
Throughout the Qoran God teaches us that His Glorious book, the Quoan, will guide some and misguides others. This is is no more than God fulfilling His promise to give the humans what they asked for, take the full responsibility to choose freely and decide to accept Him or not.
We have offered the responsibility (freedom of choice) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were afraid of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.
We should not be taken by surprise when we find others reading the same verses and get nothing out of them or even get the opposite understanding. It is God's system, "No compulsion in religion" 2256
We all know that there are over 1.5 billion Muslims around the world who read the same Qoran that we read but most of them get nothing out of it or get a distorted meaning and understanding supported by corrupted scholars who are misguided because they chose to ignore God's teaching in the Qoran and go after man-made tafseers/books...etc
The following verses show the proof that Quran misguides those who choose not to find the truth and end being misguided.
We send down in the Qoran healing and mercy for the believers. At the same time, it only increases the wickedness of the transgressors.
God does not shy away from citing any kind of allegory, from the tiny MOSQUITO and greater. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did God mean by such an allegory?" He misleads many thereby, and guides many thereby. But He never misleads thereby except the wicked,
When you read the Qoran, we place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier. We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Qoran alone, they run away in aversion.
None can grasp it (Qoran) except the sincere.
He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who harbor doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof except God and those well founded in knowledge. They say, "We believe in this - all of it comes from our Lord." Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.
...etc
Please quranflea, free yourself from the qoranparasites, i.e ulama/ mullahs...and their corrupted translations/explanations of Qoran!.Otherwise the bug they put in your head will grow and add to your corruption.
Clean your mind, ask the author of Qoran for help!
May the Lord help and bless you.
Peace to you and to all -
The need to have privileges that confirm their maleness is something really pathetic that mkes me feel sorry for many so called muslim males. What a suffering must be to be so insatiable as about one's standing and recognition. So much attention seeking, so much desperation to be given their toys...
Salaam
-
Dear quranflea,
Your version of islam is not islam but your version of islam is Salafi version of Quranism.
So how many slaves have you raped so far?
How many wives are you having now? You 'do' all of them?
The traditional version of interpretation of Qur'an is still in your mind.If God orders you to pray, does that mean it is just recommendation and not obligation?
If God frowns upon Pharaoh for ENSLAVING, RAPING WOMEN and God commands people to FREE THEIR SLAVES so where is space for slavery here?What does this slavery issue have to do with polygamy? Polygamy (under no conditions as long as not more than 4 wives) is Sunni type of polygamy.
If in 425, God prohibits ILLICIT SEX with those whom your right hand possess, that means you cannot have sex with your right hand possess.
Sex-slavery is not in true islam, just in your mind.
I have no problem with God's law but I am sick of those who justify sex-slavery / slavery, suicide bombing etc in the name of God.
FFS, please understand that 43 is only for the care of orphans, not to simply have more wives to f--- all of them and have 20+ children.
Death penalty in islam? What? Killing apostate? Stoning for adutery? Of course these are unQuranic.
As far as I know, in the Quran, the punishments are always an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Murderers deserve death penalty, and oppressers / tyrannies also deserve death.If you want to feel slavery, go ahead move to some parts of the US and say "hey! Please enslave me because I firmly believe that Qur'an doesn't forbid it. Chain my hands whenever I am free from my duties and force me to work anytime you want me too" and you feel how enslaved people feel.
Slaves have no right at all. They are forced to work. They have no freedom at all. This is why slavery is oppression and oppression is worse than murder. Just read Qur'an verses about Pharaoh and read how God condemns Pharaoh and his people for enslaving, raping women etc. So why is slavery not bad? And Qur'an says true Submitters free their slaves so masters of slaves can't call themselves Submitters (or in Arabic, Muslims).I am sorry. Your mind is just like crazy Mullahs in KSA, Pakistan etc.
-
Salaam,
Well, I meant more than that. It is not conditional according to you?
God bless you
Peace,
The condition is you only may have max of 4 wives at the same time.
If we set aside the 'polygamy' term for a while, what actually happen is simply a marriage. But in this case the man has already wife instead of single. And God never forbid a married man to marry other woman.
If God frowns upon Pharaoh for ENSLAVING, RAPING WOMEN and God commands people to FREE THEIR SLAVES so where is space for slavery here?
Please show me the verse stated that God frowns upon Pharaoh for ENSLAVING, RAPING WOMEN. And verse that God commands people to FREE THEIR SLAVES.
If in 425, God prohibits ILLICIT SEX with those whom your right hand possess, that means you cannot have sex with your right hand possess.
It's called illicit sex if one do it with someone else slave. That's why in 425 one need permission from her (slave) master. It indicates that the slave is not his own possession.
In case she (slave) is his own slave, he may have sex with her => again, please read 236 and 7030
As far as I know, in the Quran, the punishments are always an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Murderers deserve death penalty, and oppressers / tyrannies also deserve death.
So, you confirmed that there is death punishment in Islam. Good.
-
Salaam,
I think you missed conditions even if you disregard that the polygamy is only the widows of deceased men. It is still not okay to simply marry them and all is fine.
God bless you
-
Flea of Qur'an,
'Kum' in Ma malakat aymanukum means YOUR so Ma malakat aymanuKUM cannot mean right hands possession of others but YOUR right hands possess. In 425, ma malakat aymanuKUM is used.SLAVERY IS CONDEMNED
379 It is not for any human being that God would give him the Book and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people "Be servants to me rather than God!" Rather "Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Book, and of what you have studied."
2610 And when your Lord called to Moses "Go to the people who are wicked."
2611 "The people of Pharaoh. Will they not be righteous?"
2612 He said "My Lord, I fear that they would deny me."
2613 "And my chest would become tight, and my tongue would not be able to express; so send for Aaron."
2614 "And they have charges of a crime against me, so I fear they will kill me."
2615 He said "Indeed not! Go both of you with Our signs. I am with you listening."
2616 "So both of you go to Pharaoh and say 'We are messengers of the Lord of the worlds'
2617 'So send with us the Children of Israel'"
2618 He said "Did we not raise you among us as a new born, and you stayed with us for many of your years?"
2619 "And you did that deed you did, and you are of the rejecters."
2620 He said "I did it, and I was of those misguided."
2621 "So I ran away from you all, for I feared you. So my Lord granted me judgment, and made me of the messengers."
2622 "And is it a favor that you taunt me with, so you could continue to enslave the Children of Israel?"
There is a reason why I don't only quote verse 2622, instead I quote from 2610. I want slave-hungers and Qur'an fleas like you, mullahs etc to open your eyes and stop justifying inhumanity in the name of God.RAPE IS CONDEMNED. GOD HAS CONDEMNED RAPE COMMITTED BY PHARAOH'S GANG.
249 And We saved you from the people of Pharaoh, they were afflicting you with the worst punishment; they used to slaughter your children, and rape your women. In that was a great test from your Lord.7127 And the commanders from among the people of Pharaoh said "Will you let Moses and his people corrupt the land, and abandon you and your gods?" He said "We will kill their children and rape their women; we will be supreme over them."
7141 And We had saved you from the people of Pharaoh, they were afflicting you with the worst punishment; they used to kill your children and rape your women; and in that was a great test from your Lord.
146 And Moses said to his people "Remember the blessings of God upon you that He saved you from the people of Pharaoh; they were afflicting you with the worst punishment, and they used to slaughter your children, and rape your women. And in that was a great test from your Lord."
284 Pharaoh became mighty in the land, and he turned its people into factions; he oppressed a group of them by killing their children and raping their women. He was of those who corrupted.
4025 Then, when the truth came to them from Us, they said Kill the children of those who believed with him, and rape their women. But the planning of the rejecters is always in error.
[FREEING SLAVES IS A DEED OF THE TRUTHFUL AND RIGHTEOUS
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Book, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the contact prayer, and who contributes towards purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of hardship and adversity and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous.9010 And We guided him to both paths?
9011 He should choose the better path.
9012 Do you know which is the better path?
9013 The freeing of slaves.
9014 Or the feeding on a day of great hardship.
9015 An orphan of relation.
9016 Or a poor person in need.
9017 Then he has become one of those who have believed, and exhort one another to patience, and exhort one another to kindness.
9018 Those are the people of the right.
9019 As for those who rejected Our revelations, they are the people of misery.
9020 Upon them is a Fire closed over.Imagine if your state and the neighboring state are waging wars against each other, your state loses and your mother, sisters or any close female relatives of yours are taken as slaves,since you highly condemns prohibition of slavery and support sex with female slaves, you would allow the slave owners to have sex with them huh?
We are only commanded by God ro submit to Him alone.I wonder why you choose quranflea as your nickname. You talk like a flea of Qur'an. You try to hard to justify sex-slavery by distorting the message in Qur'an.
-
Salaam,
People are as obsessed with Quran as Jesus contemporary people were with the "Mosaic Law". It is a dangerous combination. Jesus knew the "rules of God" but he used them as guidelines and elaborated on them and used the concept "God's pen does never run out of ink". You shall also do like Jesus, and use your heart when you interpret the Book, the Message.
God's books are a test in themselves and the weak in faith act like in the example brother Jafar on here brought up with the tax collector and the Pharisee allegedly narrated by Jesus during his time on inspiration from God.
Be mindful of God and purify yourselves!
God bless you
-
Flea of Qur'an,
'Kum' in Ma malakat aymanukum means YOUR so Ma malakat aymanuKUM cannot mean right hands possession of others but YOUR right hands possess. In 425, ma malakat aymanuKUM is used.'Kum' is a plural term, so it refers to believers community as a whole (singular term is 'ka'. In other words, 'possessed people' (MMA) on that verse refers to 'possessed people' (MMA) in believers community in general.
379 It is not for any human being that God would give him the Book and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people "Be servants to me rather than God!" Rather "Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Book, and of what you have studied."
That verse tells that it's not deserve for a prophet to ask people to worship himself rather than God. It's not relevant to our 'MMA' discussion.
2622 "And is it a favor that you taunt me with, so you could continue to enslave the Children of Israel?"
You said that 'God frowns upon Pharaoh for enslaving', but the verse doesn't say it at all. How could you fabricating lies against God?!
249 And We saved you from the people of Pharaoh, they were afflicting you with the worst punishment; they used to slaughter your children, and rape your women. In that was a great test from your Lord.
'rape your women' will only be found on free-minds translation. I shared with other translations 'let your women live' which I think more accurate according to the original text. Anyway, you said that 'God frowns upon Pharaoh for raping women', but the verse doesn't say it at all. How could you fabricating lies against God?!
Imagine if your state and the neighboring state are waging wars against each other, your state loses and your mother, sisters or any close female relatives of yours are taken as slaves,since you highly condemns prohibition of slavery and support sex with female slaves, you would allow the slave owners to have sex with them huh?
Unfortunately, it's not up to us to control how our enemy should treat us in case they defeat us )
Your question is so silly and unrealistic.Do you think the US gov will ask the taliban's family 'excuse me madam, may I treat your husband like a shit in Guantanamo?' What a world!
-
Liberating slave IS a good deed, but God never oblige believers to free their slave (become slave-free community). If so, we won't find so many verses indicating that believers and even prophet Muhammad have 'possessed people' (MMA).
Don't let satanic propaganda through its powerful media contaminate our mind in deciding what is right and what is wrong.
-
I think that may be what Qur'anflea misses es being bought and sold to anybody. Please, somebody undertakes a big auction of slaves where he may be sold and bought to his heart content.
Otherwise I do not understand that he misses slavery so much. It must be a real treat to be "possessed".
Salaam
Salaam
-
Peace quranflea
Prove from the verses of the Quran that MMA are MALES and SLAVES
Thanks
-
If God commands, then it is compulsory, period.
Women also have MMA, Ma Malakat Aymanuhun. Hun is plural feminine third possessive pronoun.
Hun = Their (feminine)The verses that contains "Keep covered their private parts, except around their spouses and MMA is for mankind, males and females. So if MMA means slaves that you own, that means women can also f*** their male slaves?
Your slaves = 3ebadukum.
A person that is under the right hand possession of someone (in context of MMA) means a person who is not married to someone but lived like spouses. They don't have dowries and marriage contract. They don't marry usually because of status (Poor vs Royal family).I don't fabricate lies. The verses that mention raping and enslaving are separated, not in the same verses.
Seems like you are too desperate of raping slaves.
If I saw on breaking news that an Indonesian raped a kidnapped girl used as a slave, the rapists might be you.
So according to you, God allows raping slaves?
Qur'an translation that I used is wrong, so what is the true one, Mohsin Khan the Salafi? Dr Ghali? So what is the correct translation of word that free-minds translated into rape?
Sura 90 says that there are two paths, the better one is- the freeing of slaves etc. And there is another path, which the retribution is hell.
So slave owners who refuse to free their slaves are on the bad path. -
There are many verses where the believers are ordered to spend their money on among other things the freeing of slaves which is stronger than abolishing slavery. The Quran also commented on Joseph and what their brothers done to him which was selling him to slavery and separating him from his family. The vast majority of slavery is done like that. It is something that is forced on people usually by kidnapping or force like prisoners of war.
As far as MMA, MMA was referred to in the Quran in the Medina community where many Jews lived. MMA are concubines and the believers upon entering Medina after being in exile came across this tradition. Later Mecca authorities understood that practice as slavery. MMA is no different that a marriage but there is no dowry and it is done by oath only. There are prophetic figures like Abraham and David and Solomon who married that way.The Quran recognized such marriages but discouraged them due to abuse that can take place, especially on the women. In Arabic custom this type of marriages are known as urfi marriages. These marriages are usually done by poor people but recently they are pursued by the young often without knowledge of the family. The Quran wants to improve such arrangement by establishing financial protection for the women and informing family members in case one of the spouses denies the arrangement by tearing of any written contract.
WIKIPEDIA
Among the Israelites, men commonly acknowledged their concubines, and such women enjoyed the same rights in the house as legitimate wives.The concubine may not have commanded the same respect and inviolability as the wife. In the Levitical rules on sexual relations, the Hebrew word that is commonly translated as "wife" is distinct from the Hebrew word that means "concubine". (However, on at least one other occasion the term is used to refer to a woman who is not a wife - specifically, the handmaiden of Jacob's wife.) In the Levitical code, sexual intercourse between a man and a wife of a different man was forbidden and punishable by death for both persons involved. The Bible notes several incidents of intercourse between a man and another man's concubine, and none of them resulted in capital punishment for either party, although the man to whom the concubine belonged was dishonored by such a relationship. For instance, David is portrayed as having been dishonored when his concubines had a sexual relationship with his son Absalom.
Because it was regarded as the highest blessing to have many children, legitimate wives often gave their maids to their husbands to atone, at least in part, if they were barren, as in the cases of Sarah and Hagar, and Rachel and Bilhah. The children of the concubine had equal rights with those of the legitimate wife; for example, King Abimelech was the son of Gideon and his concubine. Later biblical figures such as Gideon, and Solomon had concubines in addition to many childbearing wives. For example, the Books of Kings say that Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
In JudaismIn Judaism, concubines are referred to by the Hebrew term pilegesh. The term is a non-Hebrew, non-Semitic loanword derived from the Greek word, pallakis, Greek , meaning "a mistress staying in house".
According to the Babylonian Talmud, the difference between a concubine and a full wife was that the latter received a marriage contract (Hebrewketubah) and her marriage (nissu'in) was preceded by a formal betrothal (erusin). Neither was the case for a concubine. One opinion in the Jerusalem Talmud argues that the concubine should also receive a marriage contract, but without a clause specifying a divorce settlement.
Certain Jewish thinkers, such as Maimonides, believed that concubines were strictly reserved for kings, and thus that a commoner may not have a concubine. Indeed, such thinkers argued that commoners may not engage in any type of sexual relations outside of a marriage.
Maimonides was not the first Jewish thinker to criticise concubinage. For example, Leviticus Rabbah severely condemns the custom. Other Jewish thinkers, such as Nahmanides, Samuel ben Uri Shraga Phoebus, and Jacob Emden, strongly objected to the idea that concubines should be forbidden.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concubinage
There was a very famous case in Egypt regarding urfi marriages that explains why the Quran preferred this type of arrangement should be reformed.
http//www.voanews.com/content/a-13-2006-06-07-voa19/325284.html
The only place in the Quran that presribes a punishment for men and women is when someone infringes on somebody else. Like murder, robbery, offensive war etc. The Quran does consider consider adultery as a crime as its infringing one somebody elses right but the verses concerning that topic is mostly concerned about slandering especially when a man slanders a married woman by accusing her of adultery. I think this has to do with the Arab tribal society and their honor killing habits. Slandering women like that can mean deadly for a woman even if its not true. The Quran here does not give the man the right to slander a married without bringing forth 4 witnesses or else he can be held accountable. This is the only time the Quran moved away from proportional justice (eye for an eye) to deterence justice. Probably to discourage people from running their mouth about what a woman was doing. Whats interesting here is the Quran is not concerned about whether the person slandering is saying the truth or not but rather to act as a deterence from opening his mouth even if he saw something. The Quranic verses (chapter 24) about adultery and slandering is an interesting one.
As far as how Sunnis interpret verses 4.34 -35 this has to do with some hadiths they use to interpret that verse. But that is not a Quranic understanding. Sunnis believe the verse about adultery (chapter 24) is talking about fornification and not adultery. They introduced another punishment for adultery called rajm, meaning stoning to death. This is not a Quranic concept and violates the soul for a soul argument where capital punishment can only be applied if the person commits intentional murder. Thats the proportional justice I was refering to.The punishment should always fit the crime. But when it came to slandering women the Quran invoked deterence justice.
I think Sunni authorities did that (change the verses from adultery to fornification) because than people will say fornification and homosexuality is OK since the Quran only commented on adultery and was silent about anything else. Sunni authorities actually have a hadith that says there was a verse in the Quran about adultery and stoning but it got lost! Most Muslims simply think that stoning adulterers is in the Quran.
The Quran can not talk about fornification or homosexuality since this is not an infringement on somebody else like adultery where you have a third party. Only when you are infringing on something that belongs to somebody else whether his life, property and spouse will the Quran allow holding people accountable. In adultery case the Quran places ownership of a body to the spouse.
I am not saying that fronification and homosexuality is OK but I am just saying that people can not be held accountable for it as far as the Quran is concerned. As far as the Quran is concerned it has nothing to do with anybody else?s business.