Gay and Muslim?

huruf

Peace all

I'll be less active, anyway.. I got really tired of reading "personal opinions".

Bye.

For sure, for sure. That, on top of all the opinion writing, must have been the straw that broke your camel's back.

Salaam

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

We follow a sectarian path where opinions are not allowed.

God bless you

muslims

Salam

Yes, you are right. Personal opinions without reference to the Qur'an is allowed in the Sunni and Shia Religion. It is called as "hadith". You may also compile your opinions and write your own Books or Kitabs. yes

So direct your face toward the deen, inclining to truth
the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created people
No change should there be in the creation of Allah
That is the correct deen
but most of the people do not know
(3030)

Peace & Good Night peace

muslims

I asked for an ayat that tells homosexual people are non-Muslims and I received no response

Salam

Do you read? hmm

(Refer here 1, 2, 3 and lots more, which not necessarily to be pointed out each of them.)

Allah clearly says

And whoever seeks a "dnan" (&#1575 other than Islam <- "surrender and submission"
it will NEVER be accepted of him <- Do you have a choice if Allah say "NEVER"?
and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers
(385)

if Islam to be interpreted as "harmony" and as what you have said, then it is we to harmonize ourselves with the rules of Allah, and not Allah to harmonize His rules with our rules. Who are God?

and comparison... REFER HERE

People must be able to distinguish between "behaviour" (amal) and "I'tiqad"(creed or decisive belief)

being a gay and with an i'tiqad (creed) to reform and obey Allah is a muslim (refer here)
but being a gay with an i'tiqad (creed) to remain as a gay and disobey Allah is a non-muslim (refer here)

Secondly,

Will you disagree that behavior is more important than religious perfection? Simple arrogance is among the worst traits God knows if you read the Quran the way I do and better very kind and helpful than arrogant and religious strict and proper. Mr. Good Heart vs. Mr. Perfect - What to prioritize if one would have to choose?

(REFER HERE)

Okay if I make it simple and break it into four rules, Islam for you is only the "Afaalullah".. and you set aside the "Asmaulllah", "Sifatullah" and "Dzatullah". Just like what the Christians are doing, Jesus is Love and nothing else matter. So as Buddhism, life is peace and harmony, nothing else matter ... or the Hinduism, life is sacrifice, nothing else matter. That's pretty simple, and there is nothing to reason, weight and balance for a deen, or dealings with various behaviours of human beings and other living creatures (cf. Khalifah). In fact, Allah could just tell us on a single piece of paper, do good! Done! Good Job!

However, does both Mr. Perfect and Mr. Good Heart, or loves have negative side effects?

Does perfection or love "invites fear"?

Insecure?

Depression?

Frustration, abuse, alcoholic or suicide, maybe? !

You are Mr. Good Heart and divorcing, your wife left you... right?

What do you feel now, after being Mr. Good Heart?

Do you able to "READ" (understand) her as Mr. Good Heart?

How many people in this world with good heart and full of love but live miserably?

Being oppressed by the those in power?

Now, how does all that relates with the following ayat?

Unquestionably, the allies of Allah
there will be no fear concerning them
nor will they grieve
(1062)

How could it be possible for any human beings to be fear of imperfection or being unloved, and at the same time have no "fear" or "grievance"?

How does all that is the solution by the One True Creator?

You must be kidding.

The Qur'an is not that that simple or like what you think, right?

In fact, I believe you don't understand (read) what you are talking.

You are just rambling, and without facts from the Qur'an (no purpose). )

Okay, so you don't read and only argues.

Thirdly,

The stingy will never reach Heaven unless a camel passes through the eye of a needle, as allegedly said by Jesus, and it is probably true that this expression was ever used.

Sorry, I don't bother about the alleged Jesus saying or "hadith" since we have the Quranic version and it is not about "stingy" person.

Indeed, those who deny Our verses <- the "DO NOT" prohibition in the Qur'an
and are arrogant toward them
the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them
nor will they enter Paradise
until a camel enters into the eye of a needle <- it is impossible for the disobedience to enter paradise
And thus do We recompense the criminals
(740)

They will abide in hell forever.

But the ones who deny Our verses
and are arrogant toward them
those are the companions of the Fire
they will abide therein eternally
(736)

Peace

unknownuser

Salam brother muslims.

No offense.Your theory is smart, but you may re-consider again, is another members understand your theories?

newmoon

My homosexuality is something that has often made me question if the Koran really came from God. And I still have not been able to reconcile my faith with my sexuality.

Being gay, I can tell you that it's NOT a matter of choice. But for someone who is not gay, you can never really expect that they would understand you. They simply can't. Why? Because they are not gay.

If I tell you today - start getting attracted to guys...right now...the way you get attracted to girls - will you be able to do it? I tell you to be emotionally attracted to men and not women - will you be able to do it? I show you a picture with a hot guy and a hot girl - will you be able to stop yourself from getting attracted to the hot girl....and instead get attracted to the hot guy?

And because you will not be able to do this, what if I then announce that you have a disease and that you are abnormal and against nature? How would you feel?

These are questions that many straight guys will not have the brain cells to understand or appreciate.

On one hand I feel inclined towards the Koran for multiple reasons....and then on one hand I struggle with the fact that I'm gay...and I didn't choose to be this way. So why did God make most people straight and me gay? Why are all the laws for straight couples and nothing about gay couples? Why? Why? Why? Is that not unfair? Isn't God supposed to be Just?

Indeed...if I any genie were to give me the option to change a few things about myself....I would certainly change my sexuality.

It is indeed the decree of the Lord of worlds- Allah through our soul to the mind saying that

"You should be normal heterosexual as I have created initially Adam and his companion, and further created offsprings through mates."

against the brain to the mind that

"Indeed...if I any genie were to give me the option to change a few things about myself....I would certainly change my sexuality"

3511 And God created you from dust, then from a seed, then He made you into pairs.

396 He created you from one person, then He made from it its mate.

2678 ?The One who has created us, He will guide us.?

Anyways...coming to the Koran...I'm quite confused. People from Answering Islam say that the Koran must be wrong because it says that there were no gays before Lot's people! Now how do you answer this? You may answer that it was LOT who said this and NOT God...and messengers are human beings like us so Lot did not have enough knowledge about the world and said this in error. I really don't know.

Sometimes I feel that the Koran is talking about bisexuals...as it talks about people LEAVING females and going for males...bisexuals can CHOOSE where they want to get sexual gratification from. I used to think there are no bisexuals until I met a few bisexual friends. They are INDEED attracted to both the sexes in the same way.

Yet some verses seem to clearly imply that homosexual acts are sins. Whenever the Koran talks about people of Lot, it ALWAYS mentions the sexual acts. A few other verses do mention other things..robbery etc...but sexual stuff remains the KEY sin.

And that's the reason why I do not plan to settle down with a guy. And that's also the reason why I am seeking a lesbian to get married to...a marriage of convenience...I want to fit in with the society. IF ONLY the Koran had approved of homosexuality, I would have lived my life my way and cared a fudge about what other people said. The Koran is also totally silent on lesbianism.

Some people argue that the Koran also does not mention any punishment for rape...so does that mean rapes are allowed? So how can you say the same about homosexual acts?

Have I found the answers? No I haven't. And I probably never will, until God chooses to reveal something to me, or until I'm resurrected.

God bless....

muslims

Salam brother muslims.

No offense.Your theory is smart, but you may re-consider again, is another members understand your theories?

Salam brother Earthdom

I believed many understand the ideas and meaning of Salah. It is explained in another thread, and

"IQRA bismi rabbikalla dhi khalaq"
"READ in the name of your Lord who created" <- refer to 11, "Alhamdu"
(961) (not in our name or interest, or goals)

Peace brother.

Lena

Peace I have just watched a news item on Al Jazeera about Germany accepting intersex as a gender on birth certificates for those who are born with mixed genitalia or genitalia that cannot be determined as either male or female. Australia already has this category of gender. Advocacy from adults who were born intersex was not to be operated on until the person is mature enough to make their own decision about the sex they wish to be or they may decide against any operation and to remain intersex. Are there any verses in the Quran that would enable the possibility of an intersex gender or are male & female the only gender categories in Quran? Does homosexuality include those who are born intersex in gender if they choose to remain intersex?

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

I am rambling with absolute truth. We can see about it who will be the one abiding in Hell. Let us wait and see.

God bless you

GODsubmitter

This worldly life is no more than vanity and play, while the abode of the Hereafter is the real life, if they only knew.

This worldly life is no more than play and vanity. But if you believe and lead a righteous life, He will reward you, without asking you for any money.

Know that this worldly life is no more than play and games, and boasting among you, and hoarding of money and children. It is like abundant rain that produces plants and pleases the disbelievers. But then the plants turn into useless hay, and are blown away by the wind. In the Hereafter there is either severe retribution, or forgiveness from GOD and approval. This worldly life is no more than a temporary illusion.

Man_of_Faith

This worldly life is no more than vanity and play, while the abode of the Hereafter is the real life, if they only knew.

This worldly life is no more than play and vanity. But if you believe and lead a righteous life, He will reward you, without asking you for any money.

Know that this worldly life is no more than play and games, and boasting among you, and hoarding of money and children. It is like abundant rain that produces plants and pleases the disbelievers. But then the plants turn into useless hay, and are blown away by the wind. In the Hereafter there is either severe retribution, or forgiveness from GOD and approval. This worldly life is no more than a temporary illusion.

Very true my friend, so why are we fighting here over what?

And these two verses only confirm what I was "rambling" about for hours last night. God's "Word" is as simple as that and "Man cannot live by words alone but through hard work".

God bless you

muslims

I am rambling with absolute truth. We can see about it who will be the one abiding in Hell. Let us wait and see.

Salam

"Absolute truth"? Nice! yes

Further, nothing that surprised me since I don't have to wait and see because I always expecting Hell and pray for Allah to show me the way; La Hawla wa La Quwwata Illa Billaah, "there is no power nor might except by Allah". I know nothing and cannot save myself from sin and shirk (refer here and here).

Other than the Sunni and Shia, I can't image anyone reading the Qur'an, claiming absolute truth without any reference to the Qur'an and be able to expect Paradise.

Do the people think that they will be left to say
"We believe" and they will not be tried?
(292)

Or do you think that you will enter Paradise
while such has not yet come to you
as came to those who passed on before you?

They were
touched by poverty
and hardship
and were shaken

until messenger and those who believed with him said <- even the Messenger almost fails with Allah's test
"When is the help of Allah ?"

(2214)

actual facts...

Say, "Shall we inform you
of the greatest losers as to deeds?
those whose effort is lost in worldly life
while they think that they are doing well in work"
Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord
and in meeting Him
so their deeds have become worthless
and We will not assign to them on the Day of Resurrection any importance
That is their recompense - Hell
for what they denied and they took My signs and My messengers in ridicule
(18103-106)

Peace peace

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

All that I said is Knowledge contained in Qur'an and I spoke the Message using God's pen which never runs dry. You parrot ayats from the Quran which does not counter my arguments but rather simply confirms what I said, so I am not sure where you are aiming?

As we Swedes say "I think you are out bicycling".

God bless you

muslims

Anyway, since when did God forbid as from having opinions as long as we follow His main criteria? When? When? It smells conjecture and military style god.

We follow a sectarian path where opinions are not allowed.

All that I said is Knowledge contain in Qur'an and I spoke the Message using God's pen which never runs dry.

RED is mine

Salam

See how you contradict your own statements, every time!

Do you read your own writing? yes

Peace peace

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

Yes, I know what I write, but it seems you cannot interpret English. How does those two quotations contradict each other? They mean exactly the same practically.

God bless you

muslims

Salam

You know well what you really are.

Peace. peace

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

Yes I feel pretty comfortable about who I am. Do you?

God bless you

muslims

Salam

I guess we can't really blame Bukhari & Co.

Peace

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

I have asked several times what kind of evidence you have from God that gays are not Muslims and you have only come up with ad hominem so far and accused me of the same.

And so I will ask another question about the Message; do you not believe that good behavior is the most important parameter in faith other than belief in God and His realm?

It is a very important aspect of your true misunderstanding of the whole point and I feel sorry for you if you do not agree with the above question.

And please do not evade my questions with other nonsense like posting ayats which only agree with my writings or saying that writings contradict each other while they are just heavy paraphrases with another point of view.

And where did you get Mr. Bukhari from now?

God bless you

muslims

I have asked several times what kind of evidence you have from God that gays are not Muslims and you have only come up with ad hominem so far and accused me of the same.

Salam

Really?

Okay, so you don't read and only argues.

refer here...

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg340460#msg340460

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg340385#msg340385

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg340409#msg340409

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg340242#msg340242

OR maybe because of...

And you cannot guide the blind away from their error
You will only make hear
those who believe in Our verses
so they are Muslims
(3053)

Secondly,

And so I will ask another question about the Message; do you not believe that good behavior is the most important parameter in faith other than belief in God and His realm?

REFER HERE

It always require both

iman and amal
faith (creed or decisive belief) and action (behaviour)

to make someone muslim or non-muslim.

That's why the words "believed and done righteous deeds" is always put together in the Qur'an (REFER HERE)

Question/Issue of this thread

I wanted to ask if a person can be gay and Muslim?

Conclusion

being a gay and with an i'tiqad (creed) to reform and obey Allah is a muslim (refer here)
but being a gay with an i'tiqad (creed) to remain as a gay and disobey Allah is a non-muslim (refer here)

Reasons

Those who believe
and do righteous good deeds

there is no sin on them
for what they ate

if they fear Allah
and believe
and do righteous good deeds

and again
fear Allah
and believe

and once again
fear Allah
and do good deeds

with Ihsan (perfection)

And Allah loves the good-doers
(593)

Except for those who repent
correct themselves
hold fast to Allah
and are sincere in their deen for Allah <- requires understanding
for those will be with the believers
And Allah is going to give the believers a great reward
(4146)

There is not upon the weak
or upon the ill
or upon those who do not find anything to spend any discomfort
when they are sincere
to Allah and His Messenger
There is not upon the doers of good any cause
And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful
(991)

And cause not corruption upon the earth
after its reformation
And invoke Him in fear and aspiration
Indeed, the mercy of Allah
is near to the doers of good
(756)

Indeed, Allah does not allow to be lost the reward
of the doers of good
(9120)

and there are various "degrees for the doers of good", each action are independent and depends on the particular situation, and known only by that person (gay).

That's why...

similarly

being a prostitute with with an i'tiqad (creed) to reform and obey Allah is a muslima
but being a prostitute with an i'tiqad (creed) to remain as a prostitute and disobey Allah is a non-muslima

Therefore...

How hard for you to show one ayat to prove a Muslim can I'TIQAD NOT TO "surrenders and submits to the laws of God", and still be a Muslim?

Call anyone you like, just show me one ayat from the Qur'an.

Definition of Creed or I'tiqad

Example

REFER HERE

Peace