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Peace be upon you Damon,
It is very clear what we as GOD Alone/Quran Alone Believers are up against and the gloves are clearly off. Let this episode be a message to the negative people here who have expressed dissappointment concerning the newly founded GOD Alone Alliance spearheaded by Brothers Layth and Edip.
If those terrorists are going to be a united front against us, then we better to learn to put aside our petty differences and become a united front against them.
(5914) ...thou wouldst think they were united, but their hearts are divided that is because they are a people devoid of wisdom.
Damon, if this is what you and other plan to do, then by all means, do it, but stop trying to justify it because there is no getting around the God's System.
For myself, I help in all that is good, so while Edip debates with those on "Freedom Faith" site, I too will debate at "Freedom Faith site". Let Edip and Myself compete in all that is good. I do not have to JOIN WITH "thier number" in order to fight in the same direction with Edip on the ONENESS of God. That is the difference! Respectfully.
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Peace all,
Who's Edip? I think I've asked this before and got a couple of URL"s to his site...but what does he do (is he the person who runs submission.org?)
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Peace be upon you Green Leaves,
Edip Yuksel is was a friend and colleague of Rahsa Khalifa and he is one of those in the forefront of the "thier number" philosophy. I guess he is well known because many of us came through submission.org.
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Thanks idolfree1,
I actually came to the whole God-Alone system via submission.org and I must admit they are a nice people. Their website is devoted completly to God alone and their articles and all do make sense, but yes, I kind of don't like the fact that whatever Dr. Khalfa told them (while he was alive) became written in the stone for them.
I am not sure how they got this, but according to them whoever dies before reaching the age of 40 ends up in heaven. I think Dr. K made these notes in his Quran translations and they accepted it. This is something I've not quite understood...how did they derive this from that verse? God only knows.
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Peace be upon you Green Leaves,
Yes, the PEOPLE of submission .org, being those who are seeking the One God, are nice people, but just as I and many here have previously done, they took ALL of the information as true once they saw the wisdom about the so called hadiths of Bukari and co. They saw how true this was and accepted everything else without verification.
I am not sure how they got this, but according to them whoever dies before reaching the age of 40 ends up in heaven. I think Dr. K made these notes in his Quran translations and they accepted it. This is something I've not quite understood...how did they derive this from that verse? God only knows.
This is a good example of one of the concepts that they just swallow with no reasoning. The case is being made that a person before 49 years old is not responsible, they are child like. But this reasoning fails because the gdo tell us that those hwo reach a certail age will start to return to a child like state of old age, so it is LOGICAL that if there is an AGE OF RESPONSIBILITY for the young, there must be one for the old as well, did the God forget to mention it? Of course not.
(1670) ...and of you there are some who are sent back to a feeble age, so that they know nothing after having known (much)
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Peace be upon you Kyle,
Damon, if this is what you and other plan to do, then by all means, do it, but stop trying to justify it because there is no getting around the God's System.
Well, to begin with, my post wasn't directed specifically to you Kyle. My post was directed to whoever has reacted negatively to the announcement that Layth had made concerning his union with Edip. And I believe that this episode with these people who call themselves The Islamic Oxchallenge Brigades and how they are threatening nassef's Life serves as a keen eye opener to us as to what we are dealing with concerning these people.
but stop trying to justify it because there is no getting around the God's System.
Keep in mind Kyle, as I explained to you before, that everyone here doesn't agree with your personal interpretation of GOD's Book. Nor do they entirely agree with my interpretation or Layth's or Joe's or Edip's. The point is that everyone comes to his/her own conclusions based upon on their own experiences and understandings. Just because you say that GOD's system is Such and Such doesn't make it definate and concrete. And none of us here can claim to be GOD's personal spokesman.
For myself, I help in all that is good, so while Edip debates with those on "Freedom Faith" site, I too will debate at "Freedom Faith site".
And I too have joined in the debating at faithfreedom.org. But I also realize that this does not excuse me from any other duties that I believe GOD makes clear to me that I must fulfill. Since I feel that GOD is calling me to unite with those who say that they want to spread the message of GOD Alone and Quran Alone (and not to spread a number belief) then I will answer the call, GOD Willing.
Let Edip and Myself compete in all that is good. I do not have to JOIN WITH "thier number" in order to fight in the same direction with Edip on the ONENESS of God. That is the difference! Respectfully.
I thought it was made very clear from scratch that Layth and Edip are not uniting to promote a number. They are uniting strictly to promote the worship of GOD Alone and the upholding of Quran Alone.....Nothing Else!! I'm curious as to why you keep going back to this 19 thing as your reason to be against Layth's and Edip's plans when Layth has made it 100% clear that they are only working together to spread GOD Alone/Quran Alone and not the spreading of number 19 or messengership of Rashad Khalifa.
With all due respect, I am curious.
Peace.
GOD Alone/Quran Alone,
Damon. -
Peace be upon you Damon,
Well, to begin with, my post wasn't directed specifically to you Kyle. My post was directed to whoever has reacted negatively to the announcement that Layth had made concerning his union with Edip.
I am one of the ones who is MOST VOCAL in rejecting this ALLYING with those who follow the "thier number" philosophy.
And I believe that this episode with these people who call themselves The Islamic Oxchallenge Brigades and how they are threatening nassef's Life serves as a keen eye opener to us as to what we are dealing with concerning these people.
Yes, and you stated that since they are united, we must unite. This is why I gave you the verse that shows that they are not really united. Do youagree with what the verse states? Please answer.
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but stop trying to justify it because there is no getting around the God's System.Keep in mind Kyle, as I explained to you before, that everyone here doesn't agree with your personal interpretation of GOD's Book.
Thats fine. I will continue to show the logic of my position.
Nor do they entirely agree with my interpretation or Layth's or Joe's or Edip's. The point is that everyone comes to his/her own conclusions based upon on their own experiences and understandings. Just because you say that GOD's system is Such and Such doesn't make it definate and concrete. And none of us here can claim to be GOD's personal spokesman.
The difference is that Layth and Joe are not submitting to a philosophy where everything has to add to 19 for it to be a sign from the God. This is THAT which 19.org and submission.org use to differntiate themselves. This is a KEY that they are creating a sect.
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For myself, I help in all that is good, so while Edip debates with those on "Freedom Faith" site, I too will debate at "Freedom Faith site".And I too have joined in the debating at faithfreedom.org. But I also realize that this does not excuse me from any other duties that I believe GOD makes clear to me that I must fulfill. Since I feel that GOD is calling me to unite with those who say that they want to spread the message of GOD Alone and Quran Alone (and not to spread a number belief) then I will answer the call, GOD Willing.
Please elaborate on these other duties that involve joining with the "thier number" philosophy. How will that JOINING do better in promoting the God alone than all of us doing it on Freedon Faith .org?
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Let Edip and Myself compete in all that is good. I do not have to JOIN WITH "thier number" in order to fight in the same direction with Edip on the ONENESS of God. That is the difference! Respectfully.I thought it was made very clear from scratch that Layth and Edip are not uniting to promote a number. They are uniting strictly to promote the worship of GOD Alone and the upholding of Quran Alone.....Nothing Else!! I'm curious as to why you keep going back to this 19 thing as your reason to be against Layth's and Edip's plans when Layth has made it 100% clear that they are only working together to spread GOD Alone/Quran Alone and not the spreading of number 19 or messengership of Rashad Khalifa.
With all due respect, I am curious.
Isn't Edips organization called 19.org?
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Peace be with you Kyle,
And I believe that this episode with these people who call themselves The Islamic Oxchallenge Brigades and how they are threatening nassef's Life serves as a keen eye opener to us as to what we are dealing with concerning these people.
Yes, and you stated that since they are united, we must unite. This is why I gave you the verse that shows that they are not really united. Do youagree with what the verse states? Please answer.
Yes, I do agree with that verse, but I also clearly stated in that post as well as one of the posts I made in the thread where Layth made the announcement is that even though they may not be totally united and that they may not agree totally on certain issues, they are 100% united in their fight against us who are GOD Alone/Quran Alone believers. This is a fact that none of us can deny!!! Ask any hardline traditional believer about his or her stance concerning our position and they will tell you what they believe they should do to us!!
. I will continue to show the logic of my position.
That's good because I have actually learned some things and changed my understandings on some issues due to some of your posts that I have read. I have learned something from everyone here. But in the end, it is I who must make the decisions as to what I believe is correct or incorrect. And I respect others here who follow the same methodology. But I am not going to drill others here into accepting my views/understandings as THE correct understanding.
The difference is that Layth and Joe are not submitting to a philosophy where everything has to add to 19 for it to be a sign from the God.
As true as this is, I don't believe this actually has anything to do with this particular discussion. My point was not that whether or not Layth and Joe follow number 19 but that they are both monotheists who have their own views and understandings based upon their own observations, studies and experiences.
This is THAT which 19.org and submission.org use to differntiate themselves. This is a KEY that they are creating a sect.
In all honesty, I would have to say that there is a great deal of truth to this statement. Alot of 19 believers will say that some people are not true GOD Alone believers if they do not accept messengership of Rashad Khalifa or if they do not recognize miracle of 19. This is true. However, I truly do not believe that this is Edip's position otherwise this union most likely would not have come about. I'm very sure that Edip isn't insistent on Layth accepting rashad Khalifa and number 19 as a strict condition for this alliance they seek to form. Had this been a condition or if he insisted on this, then I would say that you have a strong case against this alliance.
Please elaborate on these other duties that involve joining with the "thier number" philosophy.
First of all I have to make it very clear that I am not speaking of joining people in spreading or promoting number 19. I really do believe that you are being somewhat irrational here Kyle. Layth has made it very clear in no uncertain terms that his alliance with Edip is only to spread the message of GOD Alone and Quran Alone. He also made it very clear that he and Edip are not uniting to spread the 19 code. He has made these two things very clear. To insist on 19 being the grounds of their alliance is wrong Kyle.
Let's say that you decided to invite someone here to free-minds but this person refuses the invitation because he is against polygamy and it has come to his attention that some people here understand polygamy to be Quranically sound. Now this person also refuses to associate with you because you associate with free-minds and he has labelled you as someone who supports polygamy in spite of the fact that you have made it VERY CLEAR to him that you DO NOT support OR promote polygamy. How would it make you feel if he insists on labelling you as a polygamist even though you have made it very clear to him that you do not believe in nor support polygamy?? But he insists on accusing you of this due to your association with free-minds and some people at free-minds believe in and support polygamy.
Now having said that, on to your question as to these other duties I spoke of. Well for starters one duty would be that which we are discussing right now.....uniting with brothers such as Edip to work together to promote this message. One way is what we are doing now which is debating with those guys at faithfreedom.org. Another way would be to work on maybe a QT project or any other book project. Or maybe even establishing a GOD Alone study center. Or maybe even develop a team that will go on live TV to debate agianst a "team" of traditonists. The list can be long and varied. Yes, debating at faihtfreedom is one thing, but it's not the only thing we can do to work together.
How will that JOINING do better in promoting the God alone than all of us doing it on Freedon Faith .org?
I hope that my response above has adequately answered that question.
Isn't Edips organization called 19.org?
But what difference does that make Kyle? The tentatative name of Layth and Edip's union is the GOD Alone Alliance, not 19.org. There's a difference bro.
There are many different organizations, websites and forums all over the place. Some believe in Rashad Khalifa and numer 19, some don't, and some vary somewhere in between. The key is to focus on what we all have in common...what we all say we believe in, which are basically three things for the most part......
1). Obedience is to GOD Alone.
2). Guidance is from GOD Alone and that we should uphold Quran Alone as Guidance from GOD.
3). The rejection of the so-called hadith and sunnah and all the nonsense that comes with it.
These three things we really should unite on so we can make the GOD Alone/Quran Alone voice become just as loud of the traditional muslim voice. This is what's really important!! NOT what I feel concerning Rashad Khalifa or number 19. If we are joining together to promote the three things that I have just named above and make sure that we are focusing strictly on those issues alone, then Rashad Khalifa and number 19 will not be an issue because we are not joining together to promote those things.
Salaam.
GOD Alone/Quran Alone,
Damon. -
Peace upon you,
This thread is really full of good intentions coming from both sides of the debate.
In each issue, there's always "those in favor" and "those against", this is the nature of humans, been argumentative, and this is how the god wanted it to be, that each one is different, to be a test to each others.
The only way out from this very issue, is to follow nothing but the truth, from wherever it comes.
The truth is the god. The truth is that there's no god but the god the creator the initiator the merciful the nourisher, the one that many are speaking in his name, sometimes telling lies in his name. The god is high above everything they associate to him.
We should not be differentiating between the messengers of the god. This means that we should accept the thruth from whomever or wherever it comes, this is how we make no distinction between messengers, if we are truthfull.
A last thing, we should not deny to anybody the ability to recieve inspiration (wahy) from the god, it's a reality, we are inspired all the day long if we are aware of the god, we are inspired by relations with the world around us and from within by a relation with our creator. In this case too, many are headless about their relations, they don't hear, don't see, they have cut their relation with the creator, and followed the non-sense and lies of the rejecters, the arrogants and the deniers of the truth.
In the name of the god the creator/the initiator the merciful/the nourisher
To the god is what is in the skies and in the earth, and if you declare what is in your mind(self, soul) or hide it, the god will call you to account for it. He will forgive whom he wishes, and punish whom he wishes, and the god is capable of all things.
The messenger believes in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and the believers, all those who believe in the god, and his means(forces) of control, and his scriptures, and his messengers. We do not differentiate between any of his messengers, and they said ?We hear and obey, forgive us O Lord, and to you is our destiny.?
The god does not burden a mind(self, soul) beyond its means. For it is what it earns, and against it is what it earns. ?Our Lord, do not mind us if we forget or make mistakes; our Lord, do not place a burden upon us as you have placed upon those before us; our Lord, do not place upon us what we cannot bare; pardon us, and forgive us, and have mercy on us; You are our patron, grant us victory over the rejecting people.? 2284-286
PS sorry for duplication, this post was meant for the "working with Edip.." thread under "God alone projetcs" section.
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Peace be upon you Damon and all,
I understand your desire to unite, but I urge you to look at the big picture, the WHOLISTIC picture, this is the only way the truth can be seen. As long as the BELIEF of half of this union is "charged" by "thier number" it will raise its head one day and destroy the house built on a sandy cliff (9109).
You are not taking into account that Edip's belief are so wrapped up in this distraction that his website is called 19.org.
I don't know what else to tell you. I have given the verse about ALLIES, the verse about how the disbelievers SEEM united but are not, etc.
All I can do now is turn my back on this and wait. You will see what happens.
WHat other groups will be joining this alliance?
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Salaam Kyle,
I urge you to look at the big picture, the WHOLISTIC picture, this is the only way the truth can be seen.
It is my opinion that I Am looking at the Big Picture where as you may not be. I guess that we are perceiving two different scenario even though we are looking at the same situation.
You are not taking into account that Edip's belief are so wrapped up in this distraction that his website is called 19.org.
You are wrong for making this statement. I have taken everything into account when I learned of their plans. The one thing that I always keep in mind is that we as GOD's creation plot and plan and GOD HIMSELF also plans and GOD is the BEST of all planners. This is sufficient for me. (3936)
I don't know what else to tell you. I have given the verse about ALLIES, the verse about how the disbelievers SEEM united but are not, etc.
All I can tell you is what GOD said to His malaikai when He infromed them that He was going to place a Khalifa on earth and the mailaka were against. He told the angels that He Knows what we don't know. Again this is sufficient for me. I have nothing but the utmost of faith and trust in GOD and His plan which He is unfolding and has been unfolding right before our very eyes. All Glory is to GOD and only GOD.
All I can do now is turn my back on this and wait. You will see what happens.
All I can do is repeat the words of the messenger when he said "Wait, for I too am waiting and we will see the outcome".
WHat other groups will be joining this alliance?
GOD Willing, those who are willing to work with others for the common goal of serving GOD Alone and nothing else.
Peace.
GOD Alone/Quran Alone,
Damon. -
All I can tell you is what GOD said to His malaikai when He infromed them that He was going to place a Khalifa on earth and the mailaka were against. He told the angels that He Knows what we don't know. Again this is sufficient for me. I have nothing but the utmost of faith and trust in GOD and His plan which He is unfolding and has been unfolding right before our very eyes. All Glory is to GOD and only GOD.
7630 Yet, you cannot will it unless you align your free will with the Will of Allah. (Guidance can only be achieved according to Divine Laws (488 )). For, behold, Allah is Knower, Wise.
Peace