Masturbation--- Bismikaallahuma.org
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Peace be upon you bluerose,
actually, the theory that masturbation causes us to eventually have less sexual energy is a myth. according to surveys, people who masturbate tend to have more satisfying sex lives. doctors prescribe masturbation as therapy for patients who have certain sexual disorders in order to stimulate sex drive and to help attain orgasm.
The sexual energy we are referring to is not the same as sex drive(desire). Doctors also precribe Alleve and Viox and many other pills which are now being taken off the market. Doctors are just like "scholars", don't make them your GOD.
Where can I read more abot this survey? I am confident i can point out the error.
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peace idolfree,
well i'm about a half-year away from becoming a doctor, so i've learned a lot. although medicine has its limitations, it is evidence based. many things, such as hazardous effects of drugs, cannot ethically be known until a drug has been on the market for a while. but that's not to say that vioxx and celebrex weren't working for what their intended purpose was- inflammation and pain. i also don't think that taking advice from doctors constitutes taking them for gods, as long as you're not using them as religious authorities in addition to God. if everyone had that mentality, no one would be seeking help from anyone. what kind of a world would that be?
blue
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also, i was referring to sperm count when i talked about sexual energy. i thought that's what you were referring to. there's no reduction in sperm count due to masturbation is what i was getting at. i don't have the literature on hand, but i'm sure you can criticize it. every scientific study has its weaknesses, but there are many factors that come into play when deciding the standard of care. a scientific study with accurate and reproducible results is definitely a plus. however, doctors must also analyze the cost/benefit analysis etc... just to clarify my point though, i'm not talking about masturbation in a spiritual sense. i'm just pointing out medical evidence.
blue
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bluerose and others,
like Idolfree1 said, what was referred to was not sexual desire or sperm count. You can have a good sperm count, but be low in energy. The concept of Energy (Qi in chinese) is not dealt with in allopathy. I'd rather say it is laughed at. Allopathy knows alot of things, but it is usually highly specialized things... and less wholistic, taking the whole body into account.
Just to relate to your example of sperm count, I know a case where allopathy doctors found a situation of very low sperm count and also bad quality sperms, and they claimed there is no cure for this. They were probably correct, since they only knew about their own discipline 'allopathy'. However, this case was successfully treated with plain and simple acupuncture, which just involves lightly putting a few needles on the skin for about 20 minutes a session, 5 times a week, for just a few months. The acupuncture needles stimulated the Energy/Qi through certain points on the skin, and the problem was relieved.The theories about this Energy/Qi is a subject which up till now is separate from allopathy, but it doesn't have to be! Both types of medicine are treating the same body... but in different ways, with different impact. Unfortunately, allopathy has often a high degree of side effects. Instead of competeing about which type of medicine is best (which is just rediculous and destructive) there should instead be an increased cooperation. Knowledge is universal.. it is not earmarked for anybody.
Another interesting thing I've thought about is that people usually discover medical problems when it is almost way too late. They are unable to discover the more subtle and gentle symptoms, and instead thinks everythings is "normal" until the situation is very bad. We live in such a aworld that we hardly have any connection with our body at all. It has become a piece of meat that we treat like a machine, not something we can feel. The division in physical vs psycological is very unfortunate. We get disconnected from our own bodies, and we will not be able to manage it instinctively. Consequently, our health declines.
Peace!
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Peace be upon you Peace, and all
And they guard their private parts. Except against their mates, or those who they posses by (marriage)contracts/oaths they are free from blame. But whosoever seeks anything beyond this, then these are the transgressors
If the guarding in the verses is an allegory or methaphor of the sexual act( imo it is)...then arent we supposed to guard our private parts from ourselves as well?
Of course this might look as overinterpretation (and thats my opinion for now) but i just want to make sure we have analysed this thoroughly....
also 425 mentions an alternative if someone is afraid that he will fall prey to sin or(?) difficulty...why, then, masturbation also isnt given as a remedy if it is allowed?
for some reason I feel guilty when I do participate in this act, and for this reason I have practiced sexual abstinence for some time. Why do I feel guilty when I participate in this act?
This may be due to the fact (or maybe prejudice) that masturbation is an essentialy a selfish act..... instead of satisfying the need or sexual desire of both man and woman now the man is concentrated time and again to satisfy only himself...
On the other hand the sexual desire or feelings or emotions maybe should be canalised correctly and used as a motivator on the path of acquiring the means for marriage and finding the right partner...if this energy is spent or desire is satisfied by masturbation then you may be less motivated to acquire the means for marriage and to find the partner... or if the masturbator is in a marriage tie he will be less directed to his partner and satisfying the partner`s needs and finding a common ground and a good communication and thus the conflict may appear
i am not claiming its forbiden .. let me cite an example...its not obligatory to have a physical excercise each day, or ever in the life, but arent we feel more proud of ourselves if we practice it daily?
abstinence from masturbation imho is somehow more manly solution and a sign of a stronger character... i thus feel deep in myself, though it may be due to social conditioning....
Also remember that we are told to lower our gaze in the Quran, could this somehow tie in with this topic?
good association... ill try this line of thought
Peace and all best wishes
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Salam All, Zlatan,
or those who they posses by (marriage)contracts/oaths they are free from blame.
I read it differently. The Arabic says "Aw Ma malakat Aymanuhum" and this means "or what their right hand posessed"
Therefore it is a WHAT rather than a WHO. My point is that the most important thing that we posses is our body, therefore, masturbating is in accord with 'Ma malakat Aymanuhum" "What their right hand posessed"
Salam
Hussein
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Salam Sabo,
In my understanding of the Arabic, The trasnlation of Aymaan as oath is a derivative of the Right hand. Because when you make an oath you raise your right hand. So to me, the most direct translation is the right hand. It comes after Malakat, and therefore "What your right hands possessed".
I feel, and that is only me, I go to the most direct and concrete meaning of the term and see if it makes sense. I find that what your right hand owns makes much more sense than What your oaths own since oaths don't own anything, they are just obligations.
As I said, this is only my personal understanding and may GOD show us all the right path.
Hussein
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Peace latif, all
I feel, and that is only me, I go to the most direct and concrete meaning of the term and see if it makes sense.
I also go by that logic, however what we now understand as most direct might be tottaly unknown meaning in classical or pre-revelation arabic...
I find that what your right hand owns makes much more sense than What your oaths own since oaths don't own anything, they are just obligations.
So you think that "what your right hand owns " literarly means an allowance for masturbation?
As a side note, i remember some times ago while surfing through my dic i found that m-l-k might mean to marry or something similar, i cant remember which stem of this root renders this meaning...
Best wishes, zlatan
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Peace be upon you all,
Zulf, great posts regarding both the RUH energy (Qi, kundalini, Ra, etc) as well as the differences of allopathy and homeopathy.
Htalif, Does the phrase " Ma malakat Aymanuhum" contain the word for "HAND"? I thought it to be "what your rights control (mlk)".
I have never been satisfied with the explanations for this phrase. I think there is someting we are missing.
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Peace idolfree1, all
"Ma malakat Aymanuhum" does not contain "hand" in it. "yamin" can mean "oath" like in 589.
Sometimes, it's not the right time to tell your family or your mate's family, that you are willing to get in marriage, due to social and financial requirements. So I believe that "Ma malakat Aymanuhum" refers to the mate to whom one has made an oath of fidelity and engagement, surely it doesn't replace a marriage but it's the way that the "male-female" relation works.
Even if we look at a simple relation "boy friend- girl friend", there is some oath involved in it.
I believe that this is a way to encourage mariage and licit relations without fears. Please note that in the case of fornication, there should be at least 4 witnesses for the judgement of 100 lashes each. But if the couple is taking seriously their oaths and situation, they won't have intercourses in presence of 4 persons, not even 1.
And the door to mariage will always be open, to write it down so each one knows his rights and obligations, without forgetting the rights of the children.
And as anything else, some people would take advantage of such a mercy from the god to cause mischief to women, but the women also has to take their time before accepting someone's oath and going further in the relation.
and the god knows best.
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Salam all,
I think that this discussion can go on forever, without one opinion winning over the other. Related to brother Zlatan, I do believe that the Ayah allows for masturbation and even for playing with sexual toys and all. I am not aware that MLK can mean to marry since marriage is not an ownership.
Yameen can mean oath at times depending on the situation. One problem with the Oath argument, is that a deal with a prostitute is, in a strong way, some sort of oath. "You service me and I pay you".
As for Boyfriend and girlfriend, I can accept it but not as part of the oath issue but more as part of ZAWJ issue. ZAWJ means a couple, some sort of two people united and not necessarily by marriage (Adam and Eve were Zawj and they were not married the way we know it). Marriage is mentioned more as NIKAH when the Qur'an talks about it specifically.
Those are my humble opinions and GOD knows best.
hussein
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Peace latif, all
latif wrote
am not aware that MLK can mean to marry since marriage is not an ownership.
you are sticking too strictly and onesidedly to the etimology... its a well known fact in many languages that one root can have many different meanings related or totally unrelated....assumption that one root is = strictly one meaning is wrong... again, classical meaning might drastically differ from modern arabic meanings....at the end of the day it may simply be an idiom...
if i say i have a wife and 2 children does it mean i posses or own them as slaves?
I have a house and i have a wife are to be understood not in the same manner...
Yameen can mean oath at times depending on the situation. One problem with the Oath argument, is that a deal with a prostitute is, in a strong way, some sort of oath. "You service me and I pay you".
The problem only arises when you do not follow or chose the best or most sensible meaning...of course we are to understand the oath as a marriage oath, and not otherwise... this particularly if we look upon the verse in the light of other verses...and we are supposed to look it in that light...
except from your spouse or what your oaths control/posses....
what your oaths control/posses is imo simply a clarifying clause for the spouse, cause some might think or argue that girlfriend is also a kind of spouse...(and it surely is as you have noticed)...
In the light of the book as a whole its blatantly clear that there`s no sex outside of marriage and this verse should be understood in such light and not otherwise....sex with girlfriend based on a simple promise of fidelity seems outrageous to me in the light of a book as a whole...
actually it would be to choose to follow what is ambiguous as perversed hearts do and not what is precise and decisive(see 37).... and marrying before sex is surely precisely and decisively decreed to us...
best wishes, Zlatan
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Thanks Brother Zlatan for your response,
you are sticking too strictly and onesidedly to the etimology... its a well known fact in many languages that one root can have many different meanings related or totally unrelated....assumption that one root is = strictly one meaning is wrong... again, classical meaning might drastically differ from modern arabic meanings....at the end of the day it may simply be an idiom...
if i say i have a wife and 2 children does it mean i posses or own them as slaves?
I have a house and i have a wife are to be understood not in the same manner...
While what you say makes sense, the example of HAVE works for english and you will have to see if it works for Arabic. As far as I know, I have never seen, in classical nor in modern Arabic, anyone that said "ANA MALAKTU ZAWJATI" "I own/have my wife". The Term "MALAKAT YAMEENEE" was used in classical arabic and is still used to mean ownership.
For your example to be correct then someone should have used it. Otherwise you may be risking making a new meaning. This will be ok for the future but not for the past and we have to always be careful, I know you are, when we interpret the Qur'an.
follow what is ambiguous as perversed hearts do and not what is precise and decisive(see 37)....
This same argument applies to us when we make things mean what they did not. It applies to me and to you and to all of us.
As for the oath argument. It was used in the Qur'an, because of the use of the right hand when making an oath. However, not when the word YAMEEN was preceeded by the word MALAKAT.
I do understand why some people don't like to understand the term "Malakat Aymanukum" as ownership. However, I do not think that it is our job to play with GOD's words. We also do not and will not understand all of the Qur'an until GOD wills it. My humble opinion makes me feel that it is ownership and I understand that I own my body. I will leave the rest to GOD.
Salam
Hussein
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Peace latif, all
I do understand why some people don't like to understand the term "Malakat Aymanukum" as ownership.
I also have no problem to understand that phrase as ownership, be it in this or other instances( however then 425 would applie -if its about ownership over woman)...
its just that i am talking about what is more sensible to me now or currently...
best wishes, zlatan
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Peace be upon you Someone,
"Ma malakat Aymanuhum" does not contain "hand" in it. "yamin" can mean "oath" like in 589.
Sometimes, it's not the right time to tell your family or your mate's family, that you are willing to get in marriage, due to social and financial requirements. So I believe that "Ma malakat Aymanuhum" refers to the mate to whom one has made an oath of fidelity and engagement, surely it doesn't replace a marriage but it's the way that the "male-female" relation works.
Even if we look at a simple relation "boy friend- girl friend", there is some oath involved in it.
I believe that this is a way to encourage mariage and licit relations without fears. Please note that in the case of fornication, there should be at least 4 witnesses for the judgement of 100 lashes each. But if the couple is taking seriously their oaths and situation, they won't have intercourses in presence of 4 persons, not even 1.
And the door to mariage will always be open, to write it down so each one knows his rights and obligations, without forgetting the rights of the children.
And as anything else, some people would take advantage of such a mercy from the god to cause mischief to women, but the women also has to take their time before accepting someone's oath and going further in the relation.
Good food for thought. I need to reflect more on this.