Beware of quran.com
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Salam
Copy and paste technology, same error in http//www.searchtruth.com/
and.. we should beware of all translations since no translation can capture all of the subtle meaning found in the Quran and any translations will most definitely contain many errors. It is a "translation" (or tafseer, accordingly), what can we expect? However, they can be tremendously helpful for us to learn about the Qur'an.
I love this website, comparative translations.
http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/
Peace
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Peace all.
Thanks Yuliana, for create this thread and you choose good verse (7833).
7338 is indeed confusing, especially this red word
I believe the word kawaa3iba is not part of modern Arabic instead a Classical one and possibly Quraish dialect.
I found this words from Lisan ul Arab
" . "
Translation"And assemble Al kaa3ibi Al kawaa3iba. Say God the Noble and fellow kawaa3iba."
Now what is the red word?? Any explanation in here??
Btw regarding quran.com, we may take this phenomenon as our lesson for why we must not too rely upon the internet.
And why universities forbids the students to use internet as the main source.Even popular site like wikipedia.com, even this site is soo knowledgeable, but the article's validation still to be questioned.
Wikipedia is just like other blog.com, but just in the bigger scale.@muslims already give good evidence about this The Writer of Wikipedia is Stranger Like Us
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I can't see how a translation that is already printed, recorded, published by the millions, can suddenly transform itself to put "voluptuous" where it said " companions" or "maidens".
I cannot see any excuse for it and I do find it suspicious and malevolent. Why that mistake and not an innocent one?
Salaam
Salaam
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7338 is indeed confusing, especially this red word
I believe the word kawaa3iba is not part of modern Arabic instead a Classical one and possibly Quraish dialect.
Peace Earthdom.
I really hope to know the real meaning of verse 7833.
If some day you find more information about it, please share with us.
Thank you.
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Salam mbak Javalatte
I really hope to know the real meaning of verse 7833.
If some day you find more information about it, please share with us.
Indeed that word has not been found in modern qamus (this word also been used in Arabic,"kamus" in our language).
Yes inshaAllah if I have found the answer I will show to you.Indeed I still study, my Arabic knowledge is still below standart as well as my vocabulary.
If yu still have some questions, yu can join us in here https//www.facebook.com/groups/quranist/. (Nusantara only)
In there we Quranist get discussion more about salat, fasting or another rituals.Some FAS members, moderators and even the owner also been there.Mr Farouk Peru also been there D.
You can ask questions in there whatever u want.If you're interested, this is Quran Translation by Indonesian Quranist,Mr Nashwar Syamsu DOWNLOAD HERE
Happy study ).
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Salam mbak Javalatte
Salaam adik Earthdom aka Ega Peace.
Saya termasuk yang pernah kamu bilang wong jowo ilang jowone. Saya lahir di daerah Sunda. Bahasa Jawa saya kacau, bahasa Sunda saya lebih kacau lagi. laugh
Yes inshaAllah if I have found the answer I will show to you.
Indeed I still study, my Arabic knowledge is still below standart as well as my vocabulary.
Terima kasih.
I suppose your Arabic knowledge is far better than me. I still have a lot to learn.
If yu still have some questions, yu can join us in here https//www.facebook.com/groups/quranist/. (Nusantara only)
Thank you, Earthdom, but (for me) too many discussions with many people may disperse my focus.
Saya lebih suka percakapan dua arah saat berdiskusi.
If you're interested, this is Quran Translation by Indonesian Quranist,Mr Nashwar Syamsu DOWNLOAD HERE
Happy study .
Saya udah coba, tapi dokumennya nggak bisa kebuka. confused
Brothers & Sisters, forgive us for off topic. group
Peace.
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Thanks for the info, Yuliana.
It's very uncomfortable to know that there are so-called 'pious Muslim men' who wish to have a lot of voluptuous creatures in heaven... ) Their fantasies about houris are so horrible.
I wonder why the error occurred on 7833. ???
Regardless of whether such errors intentional or unintentional, still I choose to beware of this site.
Peace.
Hi Yuliana and JavaLatte,
I too have found this idea of "heaven" extremely scandalous, and I am sure it has been a major stumbling block for those who believe in the Bible. As such, you may find Muhammad Asad's footnote on this verse interesting
"For the above rendering of atrab, see surah 56, note 15. As regards my rendering of kawa?ib as "splendid companions", it is to be remembered that the term ka'b -from which the participle ka?ib is derived - has many meanings, and that one of these meanings is "prominence", "eminence" or "glory" (Lisan al-Arab); thus, the verb ka'ba, when applied to a person, signifies "he made prominent", "glorious" or "splendid" (ibid.) Based on this tropical meaning of both the verb ka'ba and the noun ka'b, the participle ka'ib has often been used, in popular parlance, to denote "a girl whose breasts are becoming prominent" or "are budding" hence, many commentators see in it an allusion to some sort of youthful "female companions' who would entertain the (presumably male) inmates of paradise. But quite apart from the fact that all Qur'anic allegories of the joys of paradise invariably apply to men and women alike, this interpretation of kawa?ib overlooks the purely derivative origin of the above popular usage - which is based on the tropical connotation of "prominence" inherent in the noun ka'b - and substitutes for this obvious tropism the literal meaning of something that is physically prominent and this, in my opinion, is utterly unjustified. If we bear in mind that the Qur'anic descriptions of the blessings of paradise are always allegorical, we realize that in the above context the term kawa?ib can have no other meaning than "glorious beings", without any definition of sex; and that, in combination with the term atrab, it denotes, "splendid companions well matched" - thus alluding to the relations of the blest with one another, and stressing the absolute mutual compatibility and equal dignity of all of them. See also note 13 on 5634"
Asad's translation with footnotes can be found here http//www.islamicity.com/quransearch/
Although I don't agree with many of his theological positions, his comments on grammatical/translation issues are valuable.
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Hi Yuliana and JavaLatte,
I too have found this idea of "heaven" extremely scandalous,
Salaam Hoppean.
For some women, perhaps the effects of knowing about houris (scholar's version) could be allegorized as someone being struck by lightning in broad daylight, especially if they still believe in hadiths and their religious scholars. >
and I am sure it has been a major stumbling block for those who believe in the Bible.
Is houri also mentioned in the Bible?
As such, you may find Muhammad Asad's footnote on this verse interesting
Asad's translation with footnotes can be found here http//www.islamicity.com/quransearch/
Thank you, brother.
Muhammad Asad's translation is also one of my references, because I think he was quite carefully in interpreting verses.
I used to use Quranix (http//quranix.net/) to get several translations at once, including M. Asad's translation.
Although I don't agree with many of his theological positions, his comments on grammatical/translation issues are valuable.
Agreed. handshake
Peace.
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Salaam
Salaam adik Earthdom aka Ega Peace.
How do u now I'm "adik".Are we ever met before??Yes umurku jek kisran rong puluh tahunan.
Saya termasuk yang pernah kamu bilang wong jowo ilang jowone. Saya lahir di daerah Sunda. Bahasa Jawa saya kacau, bahasa Sunda saya lebih kacau lagi
Ane dulu bisa baca-tulis aksara Jawa, tapi sekarang dah lupa coz lama ga pakai.
Saya lebih suka percakapan dua arah saat berdiskusi.
No online forums have four eyes discussion.
Saya udah coba, tapi dokumennya nggak bisa kebuka
Ironic!! This supposed still be okay just minutes before I posted my earlier post.
If you still interested then just PM me your e-mail, I will send you the copy.Brothers & Sisters, forgive us for off topic. group
Yu're too kind.No people in Kaskus or even in MyQuran I ever met said this word ).
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Salaam
How do u now I'm "adik".Are we ever met before??Yes umurku jek kisran rong puluh tahunan.
Salaam.
Masih kuliah kan? Jadi saya duga Earthdom kira-kira masih seumuran dengan adik-adik sepupu saya.
Saya biasa dipanggil mbak. But, I think I am a child at heart.
No online forums have four eyes discussion.
D
Mungkin kalau suatu saat memungkinkan saya bisa lebih aktif lagi untuk diskusi di berbagai forum, inshaAllah.
For now, I still have a lot to ponder alone. To be engage in discussions (about faith) requires extra caution. I found people who had been following the Qur'an later turned into atheists or perhaps agnostics.
So, I thought, if still not ready to involve actively in discussions, so it shouldn't be. Sometimes I want to participate in 1-2 topic discussion, but I cannot get involved in many discussions (it makes me hard to focus). Everyone have their own nature of learning.
Saya juga belum siap mental untuk berdiskusi dalam forum-forum Nusantara. Saya belum siap untuk terlalu terbuka. Dalam kepercayaan ini (mengikuti Qur'an, meninggalkan sunah, meninggalkan hadits), saya tidak memperolah dukungan dari keluarga. Alhamdulillah, orangtua masih menganggap saya anak, tapi kepercayaan kami berjalan masing-masing.
Saya pernah mencoba berkomunikasi ke beberapa teman-teman dekat (yang saya anggap orang-orang baik) untuk mengingatkan mereka soal bahaya hadits, namun saya tidak mendapat respon positif. Semakin saya terbuka dengan kepercayaan saya, tampaknya saya akan semakin danggap aneh, dianggap sesat, semakin tidak disukai.
Therefore, I believe that true friendship only comes from God. peace
One of my principles is, if I don't follow the truth from God, then it is better I never created.
We used to just believe/accept the Qur'an (as religious book) from the teachings of parents, relatives, schools, clerics, scholars, and our 'Muslim' environment. We used to think that we born in 'Muslim' family who follow the religion from Allah.
However, once we are aware of and start to face reality that we should believe the Qur'an by using our own heart and mind, to think independently, turns out for me it is not easy. It needs a lot of patience and I should always try to think positive to Allah, I must be willing to observe to prove the the Qur'an lessons in my life.
Untuk adik saya Earthdom, saya pesan supaya selalu berhati-hati dalam berdiskusi. Selalu mohon perlindungan dari Allah agar tidak terpengaruh oleh pihak-pihak yang bisa menyesatkan. Saya khawatir ada orang-orang munafik yang juga biasa ikut join diskusi (mereka sulit dikenali... tapi kayaknya ada (), jadi kita harus selalu mohon perlindungan pada Allah. pr
I also noticed that we have to be careful of our own arrogance. I believe that arrogance could open the door of digression, so I think we should try to be humble towards people who we predicted are the true believers*, trying to be nice to people who also nice to us, and trying to be fair to anyone.
*The true believers (Be careful when talking to them. They are not dangerous, no! D It is us who have to be careful because Allah support them. We should not underestimate them, don't hurt their feelings. I can only predict who they are, but I don't really know. I believe only Allah Who really know them, and it seems they are very rare today).
Ironic!! This supposed still be okay just minutes before I posted my earlier post.
If you still interested then just PM me your e-mail, I will send you the copy.Oke. Terima kasih, ya.
Salaam.
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Salaam
Saya biasa dipanggil mbak. But, I think I am a child at heart.
As long as not childish, it's okay ;D (just joking).
Btw, trimz atas nasehatnya, mbak baik sekali, jarang lho di forum2 online membernya ngasih nasehat seperti ini (biasanya mampir nyendol, trash, spam etc).
Saya tidak memaksa untuk ikut diskusi ini-itu, toh banyak juga Quranist yang belum membuka diri, tercecer di mana-mana.Yang penting adalah bagaimana ijtihad kita kepada Allah.Alhamdulillah, orangtua masih menganggap saya anak, tapi kepercayaan kami berjalan masing-masing.
RED rotfl (joke)
Maaf bukannya bermaksud rude, tapi kalimat merah itu bikin saya ngikik.
Tapi tidak mungkin orang tua seperti itu.Saya yakin walaupun di ucapan mereka mengatakan "kau bukan anakku", tapi dalam hati mereka berkata kata lain, sebenarnya mereka sayang sama kita dan itu biasanya cuma hukuman aja.Saya juga belum siap mental untuk berdiskusi dalam forum-forum Nusantara. Saya belum siap untuk terlalu terbuka. Dalam kepercayaan ini (mengikuti Qur'an, meninggalkan sunah, meninggalkan hadits), saya tidak memperolah dukungan dari keluarga. Alhamdulillah, orangtua masih menganggap saya anak, tapi kepercayaan kami berjalan masing-masing.
Kebanyakan forumnya belum formal, apalagi FB.FB kan situs chatting, belum tentu diskusinya serius.
Tapi dulu pernah ada konferensi Quranist di Medan, Sumatra Utara.Saya pernah mencoba berkomunikasi ke beberapa teman-teman dekat (yang saya anggap orang-orang baik) untuk mengingatkan mereka soal bahaya hadits, namun saya tidak mendapat respon positif. Semakin saya terbuka dengan kepercayaan saya, tampaknya saya akan semakin danggap aneh, dianggap sesat, semakin tidak disukai.
Indonesian people mostly still bounded by traditional culture and religious dogma.
Jadi tak heran jika mbak mengalami seperti itu .Tapi gak papa saya juga susah nyebarin ajaran ini dan saya cuma punya satu teman yang mengikuti ajaran yang sama.
Teman2 kita diluar sana memang belum dapet hidayah, tapi lambat laut pasti.ntuk adik saya Earthdom, saya pesan supaya selalu berhati-hati dalam berdiskusi. Selalu mohon perlindungan dari Allah agar tidak terpengaruh oleh pihak-pihak yang bisa menyesatkan. Saya khawatir ada orang-orang munafik yang juga biasa ikut join diskusi (mereka sulit dikenali... tapi kayaknya ada ), jadi kita harus selalu mohon perlindungan pada Allah. pr
I also noticed that we have to be careful of our own arrogance. I believe that arrogance could open the door of digression, so I think we should try to be humble towards people who we predicted are the true believers*, trying to be nice to people who also nice to us, and trying to be fair to anyone.
Saya sudah menyadari akan hal ini.
Dulu sewaktu SMA, saya aktif sekali di forum2 seperti KASKUS (versi old), ya kayak gitulah spam, kata kotor, id double dll.
Bukannya tambah pengetahuan, malah bikinnya emosi terus.
Orang-orang seperti itu makanan saya sejak dulu.Saya punya filter, saya gak gampang di dogma.Buktinya saya sekarang jadi Quranist.Memang sejak SD ane hobi membaca sih, jadi kalau kena yang gitu-gituan ane bisa filter.
Truz pribadi ane yang sedikit idealis mungkin juga bisa membantu tuk mengatasi hal itu .Tapi itu menjadi sebuah pelajaran saya dan saya sekarang hanya mengikuti diskusi yang penting2 doang gak main nypam lagi, so point2 diskusi online bisa cepet nyampe dan tambah ilmu tentunya.
The true believers (Be careful when talking to them. They are not dangerous, no! D It is us who have to be careful because Allah support them. We should not underestimate them, don't hurt their feelings. I can only predict who they are, but I don't really know. I believe only Allah Who really know them, and it seems they are very rare today).
Nice word, yeah this is online, dunia maya.So don't take anything too literally.Someone can lies in internet withouth any restriction.
But this is still lack of adab I thinkPeace
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Salaam.
Maaf bukannya bermaksud rude, tapi kalimat merah itu bikin saya ngikik.
Earthdom, you are not in my circumstances, you don't know the things I went through, and you don't know what kind of trials I've experienced. Perhaps if you were in my circumstances, you would not think that is funny.
Kebanyakan forumnya belum formal, apalagi FB.FB kan situs chatting, belum tentu diskusinya serius.
Pada dasarnya, saya adalah tipe orang yang serius, jadi kalau diskusinya belum tentu serius, memang sebaiknya saya tidak bergabung dulu. peace
Saya sudah menyadari akan hal ini.
Dulu sewaktu SMA, saya aktif sekali di forum2 seperti KASKUS (versi old), ya kayak gitulah spam, kata kotor, id double dll.Saya rasa orang-orang munafik justru tidak terang-terangan seperti itu. Kalau orang-orang semacam itu (yg suka berkata-kata kasar atau kotor) bisa dikatakan sudah cukup jelas menunjukkan sifat-sifat buruk mereka. Menurut saya mereka termasuk orang berhati jahat yang senang merusak perdamaian, posisi negatif mereka cukup jelas terdeteksi.
Sedangkan, orang-orang munafik itu bisa jadi lebih lihai, mereka adalah penipu ulung. Seingat saya, Qur'an menyebutkan beberapa ciri mereka.
Nice word, yeah this is online, dunia maya.So don't take anything too literally.Someone can lies in internet withouth any restriction.
Hypocrites and wicked people can lie. By utilizing cyberspace they can speak more bluntly and openly propagate their ideas. They don't care about the safety of our faith, perhaps they also be pleased if we become astray.
But we can learn from true believers. True believers don't like to lie and don't like being lied.
Peace.
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Salaam
Earthdom, you are not in my circumstances, you don't know the things I went through, and you don't know what kind of trials I've experienced. Perhaps if you were in my circumstances, you would not think that is funny.
Ane ngerti coz ane pernah ngalami hal yang sama, mungkin lebih parah.
Ane dulu sering dimarahi dan dipukul oleh ortu, dan sekarang sering misskomunikasi dengan ortu.Ane gak bohong http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605276.0
Saya kadang merasa benci dengan ortu, tapi ane sadar sebenarnya ortu itu sayang sama kita.
Pada dasarnya, saya adalah tipe orang yang serius, jadi kalau diskusinya belum tentu serius, memang sebaiknya saya tidak bergabung dulu. peace
No yu're wrong.
https//www.facebook.com/groups/quranist/
This group is the most serious one I ever found.This owned by one of the FAS moderator.The purpose of that group is to settle the internal problem within Quranist, so this group
-More get discussion about internal like tafseer, salat, zakat, fasting or another ibadah or some views.
-Has no interference by Sunnis.
-Some Arabic/Quran experts get discussion in there more deeply even until midnight.
-Some of them even published the articles.
-If I'm not join that group, I will never get Nashwar Syamsu's translation.
-Has little joking and it very minim.I'm also little bit serious.I like joking but I don't like to do it too much.
If yu interested on bedah bukunya Nashwar Syamsu, the best group https//www.facebook.com/groups/nazwarsyamsu/
But once again, saya tidak bersifat memaksa atau mengajak, saya hanya berusaha memberitahu saja.
Peace peace
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Salaam
Ane ngerti coz ane pernah ngalami hal yang sama, mungkin lebih parah.
Ane dulu sering dimarahi dan dipukul oleh ortu, dan sekarang sering misskomunikasi dengan ortu.Ane gak bohong http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605276.0
Salaam.
Jadi itu post dari Ega Peace, bukan dari antoborn ya.
Mengingatkan saya tentang masa lalu, dulu waktu SD saya juga pernah sempat di-bully.
Saya kadang merasa benci dengan ortu, tapi ane sadar sebenarnya ortu itu sayang sama kita.
Mungkin sebenarnya, Earthdom bukan kadang merasa benci dengan ortu, tapi kadang merasa kesal pada mereka.
Saya tidak membenci orang tua saya, inshaAllah. Kalau kesal tentu pernah, kesal dalam berbagai tingkat kekesalan.
Saya sayang pada mereka, tapi memang ada banyak hal-hal berat yang saya alami di keluarga.
Karena jiwa saya sering merasa luka dan sendirian, jadi saya berusaha mencari teman yang paling bisa diandalkan, yaitu Allah. Jadi saya pikir, ujian yang saya alami inshaAllah ada hikmahnya.
Saya rasa Allah menempa saya untuk bisa lebih sabar dan terus bersabar sampai pertolongan Allah tiba.
Saya belajar dari Qur'an untuk bisa lebih sabar. Kalau kita banyak mengalah dan sabar, inshaAllah sikap orangtua juga melunak.
But once again, saya tidak bersifat memaksa atau mengajak, saya hanya berusaha memberitahu saja.
Peace peace
Ya. Terima kasih, dik Ega.
Jadi diskusi di sana lebih damai dan lebih akur daripada di sini ya. AlhamduliAllah.
Kayaknya kita udah off topic banget, nih... P
Salaam.