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  4. Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity

Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity

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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    Man_of_Faith
    wrote on last edited by
    #109

    Descendants of Muhammad any reliable guides?

    2124 And Abraham was tested by words from His Lord, which he fulfilled. He said ?I will make you a leader for the people.? He said ?And also from my progeny?? He said ?My pledge will not encompass the wicked.?

    Qur'an is very thorough here that being a descendant of someone is no guarantee that it is safe to follow them. Woe to those who without questioning the teachings of descendants of Muhammad and rely on hearsay that the Prophet anointed a successor to him on his deathbed. Besides it is something anyone could say that they are a descendant of Muhammad. And our physical body is just a shell we have during our brief stay here on Earth. Even if Muhammad truly anointed a successor on his deathbed according to hearsay then "My pledge will not encompass the wicked" comes into play anyway.

    A Messenger or righteous person is not right for what he is but for what he does. And man cannot live by words alone...

    God bless you

    Peace

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    • M Offline
      M Offline
      Man_of_Faith
      wrote on last edited by
      #110

      Messengers, Apostles or Missionaries?

      God delivers clear warnings and Qur'an and people who act as Messengers and despite this people stubbornly adhere to their leaders and learned ones who are full of conjecture and "extra-religious" information

      3366 On the Day when their faces will be turned over in the Fire, they will say (2) ?Oh, we wish we had obeyed God, and obeyed the messenger?
      3367 And they will say ?Our Lord, we have obeyed our leaders and our learned ones, but they misled us from the path.?

      A person who preaches the Message is basically a Messenger. Obedience to what has been told is voluntary, but by studying my previous posts in this thread would only reveal that I speak of the Truth and that the Message is so dead-simple. And it is easy to preach the Message because it contains of so few steps yet you risk being persecuted for doing so.

      Obey does obviously not mean to obey under any condition, but when someone tells the clear Message of God then it is wise to "obey" with the use of a word with a cold connotation. I would rather use the word "listen to" or "pay attention" or "heed the words".

      Qur'an contains examples of what is obedience in past times

      26176 The people of the Sycamore disbelieved the messengers.
      26177 For Shu?ayb said to them (2) ?Will you not be righteous??
      26178 ?I am to you a trustworthy messenger.?
      26179 ?So (1) be aware of God and obey me.?
      26180 ?And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds.?
      26181 ?Give full measure and do not be of those who cause losses.?
      26182 ?And weigh with the balance that is straight.?
      26183 ?And do not defraud the people of their belongings, and do not venture into the land corrupting.?
      26184 ?And (1) be aware of the One who has created you and the generations of old.?

      It is a cutout from dialogues that happened in the past and the Messenger basically told the people to be good and mindful of God. No more or less is the purpose of the Messenger; to deliver the simple yet important Message of God.

      Here follows the narration of Lot

      26160 The people of Lot denied the messengers.
      26161 For their brother Lot said to them (2) ?Will you not be righteous??
      26162 ?I am to you a trustworthy messenger.?
      26163 (1) ?So be aware of God and obey me.?
      26164 ?And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds.?
      26165 ?Do you approach the males of the worlds??
      26166 ?And you leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You are an intrusive people!? *

      • This people had put into system to prefer men over women. This is the disputable story to see that God condemns homosexuality. This is not the discussion in this thread so please do not raise a dialogue on this matter here.

      And Saleh

      26141 Thamud denied the messengers.
      26142 For their brother Saleh said to them (2) ?Will you not be righteous??
      26143 ?I am to you a clear messenger.?
      26144 ?So (1) be aware of God and obey me.?
      26145 ?And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds.?
      26146 ?Will you be left secure in that which you have here??
      26147 ?In gardens and springs.?
      26148 ?And green crops and palm trees laden with fruit.?
      26149 ?And you carve homes out of the mountains with great skill??
      26150 ?So (1) be aware of God and obey me.?
      26151 ?And do not obey the command of the carefree.?
      26152 ?The ones who corrupt in the land and are not reformers.?

      Hud's story

      26123 ?Aad denied the messengers.
      26124 For their brother Hud said to them (2) ?Will you not be righteous??
      26125 ?I am to you a clear messenger.?
      26126 ?So (1) be aware of God and obey me.?
      26127 ?And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds.?
      26128 ?Do you build on every high place a symbol, for the sake of vanity!?
      26129 ?And you take for yourselves strongholds, perhaps you will live forever??
      26130 ?And if you attack, you strike ruthlessly??
      26131 ?So (1) be aware of God and obey me.?
      26132 ?And (1) be aware of the One who provided you with what you know.?
      26133 ?He provided you with livestock and sons.?
      26134 ?And gardens and springs.?
      26135 ?I fear for you the retribution of a great day?

      By the name of God, can you not understand what the Message is?

      Be mindful of GOD and work towards your purification, and work righteousness.

      Of course history repeats itself as it always has and people continue to adhere to their learned ones and leaders, no matter living or dead ones. And people complicate the Message by adding lots of things that are irrelevant. And to defend their practices they turn aggressive and hostile, further demolishing their work on criteria (2).

      God bless you

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      • M Offline
        M Offline
        Man_of_Faith
        wrote on last edited by
        #111

        Do the atheists not reason like this?

        Have you never heard your fellow humans around you utter this in either written or verbal form?

        625 And from them are those who listen to you; and We have made covers over their hearts to prevent them from understanding it, and a deafness in their ears; and if they see every sign they will not believe; even when they come to you they argue, those who reject say ?This is nothing except fictional tales of old!?
        626 (2) And they prohibit others from it, and keep away themselves from it; but they will only destroy themselves, yet they do not notice.
        627 And if you could see when they are standing over the Fire, they say ?If only we could be sent back, we would not deny the revelations of our Lord, and we would be believers!?
        628 No, it is merely what they have been concealing that has now become evident to them; and if they were sent back they would return again to what they were prohibited from, they are but liars!
        629 And they had said ?There is only this worldly life, and we will not be resurrected!?
        630 And if you could see them when they are standing at their Lord; He said ?Is this not the truth?? They said ?Yes, by our Lord,? He said ?Then taste the retribution for what you have rejected.?
        631 (1) Losers are those who have denied their meeting with God; until the Hour comes to them suddenly, then they say ?We deeply regret that which we have wasted in it,? and they will carry their burdens on their backs; miserable indeed is their burden.
        632 And the worldly life is nothing more than play and distraction, and the abode of the Hereafter is far better for those who are (2) righteous. Do you not comprehend?
        633 We know that you are saddened by what they say; they are not rejecting you, but it is the revelations of God which the wicked disregard.

        "This is nothing except fictional tales of old!" is an answer I got on an Islamic blog that I wrote on a couple of years ago. I felt saddened by this disbelief and that they cannot sense the Lord around them. How shocked this person will be when they stand in the courtroom with God on the Judgment Day. They are completely unaware and denying, and think that one is a neanderthal human for believing in God. God is adapting to these modern ages, but people think everything is just imagination from the past. And the traditionalists think we have to live in the Middle Ages to be able to follow the creed of God. Many people live in complete denial of meeting the Lord. And they belittle the people who believe and even write articles that claim that people who believe have less intelligence (which however is true for the hypocrites). The hypocrites keep people away from God. Ironically, Believers have two resistances, those who think they believe and force people to believe in their corrupted ways they do and the ones that do not believe at all and think they make the Believers a service by preventing them from their Faith.

        The hypocrites express themselves somewhat like this

        2111 And they said ?None shall enter the Paradise except those who are Jewish or Nazarenes (or "Muslim"? this is what they wish! Say ?Bring forth your proof if you are truthful.?

        Nowadays, 1400 years after the advent of Qur'an Muslims could be added to this verse as well as seen within my parenthesis. They say that you have to convert to their Faith even if Islam is nothing you convert to, it is something you are or not. They call "their" prophets infallible and God knows what, while we know that there was no Prophet or Messenger without sin, except perhaps the special case of Jesus although he was surely a trap for those with a disease within their heart. Jesus is a good sign of how good a person can be, if they put their mind to it. But God is One and not three. The wise heed their Message and strengthen their Faith in God. The function of the Messenger is to invite to God by preaching the Message and if one becomes a Believer and do not fall to the trap of idolatry then this is a big success. Why do we humans always need idols? Needing lords or idols shows that you cannot form your own life and successfully bond with God.

        People are very curious of why we are here and the answer is right in front of their eyes. If there is no purpose of existing one would not exist.

        List of errors listed which will lead to failure (for atheists)

        • Failure to believe - Opinion that God is an object of the imagination

        • Failure to do good - And they keep others away from it too through their unfaithfulness

        God bless you

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        • I Offline
          I Offline
          Indelwyn
          wrote on last edited by
          #112

          Enjoying this post very much. Is there more?

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          • M Offline
            M Offline
            Man_of_Faith
            wrote on last edited by
            #113

            Be good, one of two (only) criteria

            282 And those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, they are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.

            It sounds pretty simple, but of course it is not as simple as one may think when this is presented here, not to add that most people follow conjecture and listen to religious leaders and others, and thus lose focus on the real mission of Islam To purify our souls into betterment and become good beings, except the obvious discovery and realization that God exists which is why the Lord spends a substantial part of the book explaining how illogical it is not to believe in God.

            It is surely amazing that mankind has always complicated things with lots of things in Islam while the Message has been so, sooo 'freaking' simple that anyone able to think clearly can understand and follow the creed. It sure is the (2) behavior and the deeds that are measured and can come in a grand variety compared to (1) Faith that is straight-forward since God is One, nothing else to argue about, the ultimate power of the Universe. And God wants people who have developed personalities and not Muhammad copies or Jesus copies but our own honest selves that can lead their own lives and stand on their own feet although relying on God and seeing Him as their superior.

            Verse worthy of repetition

            2112 No; whoever (1) submits himself to God, (2) WHILE doing GOOD, he will have his recompense with his Lord. There will be no fear over them, nor will they grieve.

            How can I emphasize more on good in this verse and it is also echoed in other verses as presented and involved in other contexts of Islam too.

            For those who still doubt my preachings I have this verse

            2148 And to each is a direction that he will take, so you shall race towards good deeds. Wherever you may be, God will bring you all together. God is capable of all things.

            This verse is unfortunately in the context of those verses which point at the disputable topic of Qiblah which I consider meaning spiritual focus and not a physical direction where people should pray towards but the creed itself is the Qiblah with its community ways, which might mean that cultural belongings is not entirely wrong and the identity and certain ways to be righteous can differ between them. I possess no further Knowledge to discuss any in depth on this topic other than I am sure it means the slight differences in spiritual views such as lighting candles in spiritual moments or any other ways as long as it does not derail into idolatry. That was my comments on Qiblah, but we can all debate what it means and it ought not to be overly important as you know by now in my thread now what Islam is about. It is a one-two creed.

            Islam not more than simply balancing good vs. evil

            It feels relatively fantastic that Islam is really not much more than good vs. evil, and rely on good which comes from God and get to know your Creator as well as bond with Him. And those who lack the intelligence to heed the clear signs of the Lord will eventually meet their doom. Some people simply cannot believe no matter what you do and are not working towards the good, means in God's eyes that you are not really believing either since you do not understand the Message, which Qur'an is part of, and obviously losing out on the minimum amount of Knowledge and Wisdom required in Islam as presented before in this thread and needs to be balanced together with the remaining parts. It is a big failure not to see that goodness is the fundamental part of Islam as seen in recent posts, and then that is not an understatement. Was that not the main point of the Gospel?

            2195 And spend in the cause of God, but do not throw your resources to disaster. And do good, for God LOVES those who do good.

            Simply put, God points out clearly that goodness is something that He loves and what other conclusion does the wise draw from that?

            Let us continue with this verse revealed by God many centuries ago

            2277 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, and keep their Mindfulness, and contribute towards Purification; they will have their recompense with their Lord and there is no fear over them nor will they grieve.

            Note Contact prayer was changed into my understanding of Mindfulness. While it still may not be entirely accurate I believe that it is a much better and more accurate choice than contact prayer. I will try to meditate and seek more answers for the case of as-salat at some time soon, but not now although by looking at the root of that disputed word cannot mean more than the bonding and connection to God whereas I chose Mindfulness as my choice to describe the phenomenon in English while it is likely as translating Islam into English.

            Here it continues with a verse which advocates good deeds in a manner that hints at it as the foundation of the whole Faith

            3104 And let there be a nation from among you who (2) calls towards goodness, and (2) orders kindness, and prohibits vice. And these are the successful ones.

            Dear brothers and sister; what other conclusion can you draw of Islam than a religion that wishes to establish Peace and Prosperity as ultimate aim?

            • 3113 They are not all the same, from the followers of the Message are a nation that is upright; they recite the revelations of God during the night hours and they prostrate.
              3114 They (1) believe in God and the (3) Last Day (Realm) and order kindness and prohibit vice, and they hasten in goodness; these are of the good doers.
              3115 And what they do of good will not be turned back, and God is aware of the righteous.

            If you "hasten" in goodness; how can you think that an benevolent God will give you lots of weird rites to distract you?

            • Indicates that they are not necessarily "Muslims" by "label", but those who heed the Message either from the past, present or the future.

            For those who love giving back in revenge and cannot easily get back to civil behavior

            3133 And race towards forgiveness from your Lord and a Paradise whose width encompasses the width of the heavens and of the earth; it has been prepared for the righteous.
            3134 The ones who spend in prosperity and hardship, and who repress anger, and who pardon the people; God loves the good doers.

            436 And (1) serve God and do not set up anything with Him, and (2) do good to the parents, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the neighbor who is a relative, and the neighbor nearby, and the friend nearby, and the wayfarer, and those maintained by your oaths. God does not love the arrogant, the boastful.

            "Treat thy neighbor as thyself" was a wise old saying allegedly originating from past Messengers. This above verse practically says the same. We must remember that charity does not always have to just mean cash up front. A smile and physical service towards someone can be worth just as much as money, if not more. The verse indicates that by doing the elements of it practically means that you do the service of God, another inclination that Islam is about harmony and justice among the people.

            457 And those who (1) believe and (2) do good, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath them; abiding therein eternally, in it they will have pure mates, and We will admit them to a vast shade.

            4122 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein eternally. The promise of God is truth; and who is more truthful in saying than God?

            • 4123 It will not be by what you desire, nor by what the followers of the Message desire. Whoever works evil, he will be paid for it; and he will not find for himself besides God any supporter or victor.
              4124 And whoever (2) works good, whether male or female, and is a (1) believer, then these will be admitted to the Paradise, and they will not be wronged in the least.
              4125 And who is better in the system than the one who (1) submits himself to God, and he is a (2) good doer, and he follows the creed of Abraham in monotheism? And God took Abraham as a friend.

            • The sectarians from from the revelations that came with Muhammad and the ones who today worship Jesus as God's son; to decide or the Jews. Face it, my dear brothers and sisters, the religious practices have no real value at all except follow the one-two way of serving God as I advocate in my posts. And it is primarily for what evil you did which will lead you towards doom. God is so very clear that he repeats the same phrase practically once before this verse and then after it with emphasis on belief and good deeds, and worth mentioning repeats the same theme in a subsequent verse again.

            4173 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, He will give them their recompense and increase for them from His bounty. And as for those who are too (-) proud and arrogant, He will punish them a painful retribution, and they will not find besides God any supporter or victor.

            • 4174 O people, proof has come to you from your Lord, and We have sent down to you a guiding light.
              4175 As for those who (1) believe in God and hold fast to Him, He will admit them in a mercy from Him and a bounty, and He will guide them to Himself, a straight path.

            • Yes. Surely the Message is very clear in Qur'an. IF Hold fast to God THEN will guide them to Himself on a straight path. Note that Qur'an is not required although it surely was sent down as an extra mercy from the Lord as a guide with clear guidelines. What will help you is to translate kitab as Message or Knowledge instead of physical book and you will see more clear into the Message. Everything that is bound to physical objects in this world is a risk of idolatry. The Message is bookless and jumped from people to people even though the majority failed to heed the Truth in it.

            • 56 O you who believe, if you rise to keep your Mindfulness, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall purify. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful.
              57 And remember the blessings of God over you and His covenant that He has bound you with, for which you have said ?We hear and obey,? and be aware of God; for God knows what is in the chests.
              58 O you who believe, stand for God and be witnesses for justice, and let not the hatred towards a people make you avoid being just. Be just, for it is closer to righteousness, and (1) be aware of God. God is expert over what you do.
              59 God has promised those who (1) believe and (2) do good works that they will have forgiveness and a great recompense.

            • It is purely for the spiritual reasons that you do this and it is keeping a good hygiene. Feel how fresh you feel when you sense the "magical" water that God created touch your gentle skin. When you are clean it is easier to focus and keep the connection to God as it will be no distraction. The soil I suppose it must be clean sand which can be rubbed against the skin to remove the worst dirt. Have you never tried to clean your shoes against the ground? Obviously it is a last solution if you feel impure. Anyway, if it accomplishes nothing what is worth most is righteousness and goodness (2).

            One of the verses which tries to convey the message that practically anyone who fulfills these criteria have a chance of Heaven

            569 Surely those who (1) believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, (* and the "Muslims&quot, whoever of them (1) believes in God and the Last Day and (2) does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.

            • Muslims here is not in the original script but would have been there in a revelation from the Lord if He would reveal one today, probably not with Muslim term but rather Muhammadan or similar.

            Sorry that I repeat the same content in a long post, but I wanted to show you how repeated this content is in Qur'an and yet people even here on the forum argue about the fundamentals of Islam. Hope you persevere in reading this post as I hope you may change your approach to the Message and the Great Reading, God willing, after this.

            Warnings about complicating the creed and traps

            587 O you who believe, do not make unlawful the good things that God has made lawful to you, and do not aggress; God does not love the aggressors.

            Have not the sects transgressed on this exhortation not to forbid lawful things and to aggress from right to left? There is no "love thy neighbor as thyself".

            593 There is no sin upon those who (1) believe and (2) do good works for what they eat if they are aware and believe and do good works, then they are aware and believe, then they are aware and do good; God loves the good doers.

            Eat in the name of God.

            • 5100 Say ?The bad and the good are not equal, even if the abundance of the bad impresses you.? So (1) be aware of God, O you who possess intelligence, that you may succeed.

            Trap, trap, trap. One may be fooled to commit evil because the crowd already does it. Behavior is contagious.

            648 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners; whoever (1) believes, and (2) does good, then there is no fear for them nor will they grieve.

            There is no Islam, only islam, so to say (even if it is easier to identify it as Islam, I use Islam anyways). "If I (3) follow the Message, (1) believe and (2) do good I am free from fear or worries about the future."

            6151 Say ?Come let me recite what your Lord has made unlawful for you that you should (-1) not set up anything with Him - and (2) do good to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near immorality, what is public of it and private; and do not take the life which God has made forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend.?
            6152 ?And do not come near the money of the orphan, except for what is best, until he reaches his independence; and give honestly full measure and weight equitably. We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear, and if you speak then be just even if against a relative; and regarding the pledges made to God, you shall observe them. This He has enjoined you that you may remember.?
            6153 And this is My path, a straight one. ?So follow it, and do not follow the other paths lest they divert you from His path. That is what He has enjoined you to that you may be righteous.?

            Look at this and see that the Message was detailed already on Musa/Moses' time. The Message is "Believe in God and do what is right."

            6154 Then We gave Moses (3) the Message, to complete for those who (2) do right, and to fully detail all things, and a guide and mercy that they may (1) believe in the meeting of their Lord.

            The often so-called Mosaic Law is from here and you surely know what it contains, for example, you should not kill and equivalent punishment, i.e eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, however Jesus taught that it is better to forgive than to punish. Much more righteous! Forget "religions" and join God's creed of "i"slam right away with two easy steps to focus on.

            6155 And this is a (3) Message that We have sent down which is blessed, so follow it and be aware, that you may receive mercy.
            6156 Lest you say ?The Message was only sent down to two groups before us, and we were unaware of their study!?

            6159 Those who have divided their system and become sects, you are not with them in anything. Their matter will be with God, then He will inform them of what they had done.

            This is what the majority of people on Earth have done sadly enough instead of uniting under the very same Message and instead they follow only conjecture and invented ideas which distract them from the true service of God. Any person from any "religion" can serve and revere the Lord together by two easy steps, (1) reverence and glorification, and (2) "treating the other neighbor as thyself". God's verse does not mean that you have to freeze them out, but their strange practices and service of God is what He means that you shall not participate in.

            6160 Whoever comes with a (2) good deed, he will receive ten times its worth, and whoever comes with a sin, he will only be recompensed its like; they will not be wronged.

            Minor sins are not so bad as long as your are mindful of them and repent your deeds. Sometimes it is difficult to get away from certain behavior (perhaps homosexuality?), but we shall always remember that one who sins shall surely be forgiven lesser sins with a bunch-load of (2) good and beautiful deeds as long as he keeps away from the major sins such as idolatry which is the backbone of Islam (1).

            6162 Say (1) ?My Mindfulness, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to God, Lord of the worlds.?
            6163 ?He has NO partner, and it is to this that I was commanded, and I am the first of those who have submitted.?

            Indeed, He has no partner and the Messenger/Apostle/Missionary is only a deliverer of good news as well as a warner. Submit to the Lord of the Universe and give up on idolatry. The Prophet or Messenger or whatever Message-bearer from God has no importance compared to the Master of the Universe.

            72 A (3) MESSAGE that has been sent down to you, so let there not be any burden in your chest from it, that (2) you may warn with it; and a (1) reminder to the believers.
            73 (2,3) Follow what was sent down to you from your Lord, and do not follow besides Him any supporters. Little do you remember!

            God is very thorough in The Great Reading and people have the Truth right in front of their very eyes, but most are deaf and blind and their mind is diseased and locked from taking in the Truth.

            732 Say ?Who has made unlawful the nice things that God has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?? Say ?They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection.? It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.

            "Where is my music? Where is my movie entertainment? Where is my (uncensored) Internet?" In certain locales the true Believers suffer because of the imbeciles. That is the day for millions of Iranians where I lived for a few years.

            Say ?My Lord has made unlawful immorality; what is public of it and private; and sin, and aggression without cause, and that you set up partners with God that which He has never authorized, and that you say about God what you do not know.?

            Always the sexuality is used as an aggression point for immorality as something to make an abomination while it means immoral as in deceive your wife or fool someone of money and many of the things The Great Reading goes through already up until this point. The funny thing is that traditionalists contradict the same verse with ideas and conjecture they have.

            By the name of God; I should not even have to explain all this for you, but the Lord is Merciful, Most Kind. Do you not see that I wish to help you?

            7188 Say ?I do not possess for myself any benefit or harm, except what God wills. And if I could know the future, then I would have increased my good fortune, and no harm would have come to me. I am but a warner and a bearer of good news to a people who believe.?

            Muhammad was no superman, see? He was just an ordinary man who (1) believed and (2) did good and (3) believed the Message of old. Otherwise it is just a "say" command which anyone can say who feel hit by the urge to express the line. God blessed him because of this and he was a blessed man who excelled in this life and was promoted to Messenger/Apostle/Missionary and has a special link to God and at the same time part of God's plot.

            Back to the good news for those who believe

            742 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good; We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear; those are the dwellers of the Paradise, in it they will abide.

            Enough evidence already, or?

            837 This is so that God will distinguish the bad from the good, and so that the bad will be gathered together into one heap then He will cast it all into Hell. These are the losers.

            This life is just a test that you may show that you qualify for God's Kingdom which Jesus preached about and all other Messengers every came to the face of the Earth.

            971 And the believing males and the believing females, they are allies to one another. They (2) order good and prohibit vice, and they keep their (1) Mindfulness, and they contribute towards Purification and they (1,2,3) obey God and His messenger. God will have mercy on them; God is Noble, Wise.

            Obey as in follow the very extremely simple Message of Islam and we know that the Messenger is only to make the reverent remind themselves of the Message and warn the Disbelievers.

            109 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, their Lord will guide them by their Faith. Rivers will flow beneath them in gardens of bliss.

            My circular diagram is confirmed in this verse. When you follow (1) and (2), your Lord will guide you and it does not require The Great Reading necessarily even if it is a big bonus for the Reverent.

            1026 For (2) those who do good will be good and more, and their faces will not be darkened or humiliated. These are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.

            Following the actions of the creed leads you far on the path.

            1123 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, and are humble towards their Lord; they are the dwellers of the Paradise, in it they will remain.

            11114 And hold the Mindfulness at two parts of the day, and the near part of the night. (2) The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.
            11115 And be patient, for God does not waste the reward of the good doers.

            Being mindful of God all around the clock and doing good will remove the sins eventually when you get closer and closer to God through Nearness and Guidance.

            1256 And it was such that We gave Joseph authority in the land, to travel in it as he pleases. We bestow Our mercy upon whom We please, and We do not waste the reward of the good doers.
            1257 And the reward of the Hereafter is better for those who believe and are aware.

            Something that happened to Joseph could also happen to anyone of us if we had the same caliber as these past righteous people.

            1329 The ones who have (1) believed, and have (2) done good works, there will be happiness for them and a wonderful abode.

            1423 And those who (1) believed and (2) did good works were admitted to estates with rivers flowing beneath them. In them they will abide with the permission of their Lord. Their greeting therein is ?Peace.?

            Final verses narrated to you (promise!)

            1630 And it was said to those who were righteous ?What has your Lord sent down?? They said (2) ?All goodness.? For those who have done good in this world there is good; and the Hereafter is goodness. Excellent indeed is the home of the righteous.
            1631 Gardens of delight; which they will enter, with rivers flowing beneath them, in it they will have what they wish. It is such that God rewards the righteous.
            1632 Those whom their lives are terminated by the angels, while they had been good, they will say ?Peace be upon you, enter the Paradise because of that which you have done.?

            Such a friendly reception the righteous will get once they leave this world. Actions lead to Peace and Prosperity.

            Source Verses taken from Monotheist Qur'an (rev. 2013) with certain minor modifications to the text

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              sushi1992
              wrote on last edited by
              #114

              Excellent post. Believing as you say is a very difficult thing and is not easy at all. There's a reason why God differentiates between submitters and believers (or muslim and mumin if we use the Arabic). Can't remember the versenumber but some Arabs had said they believe. Yet belief hadn't entered their hearts yet, they had only submitted. Belief takes a lot of time and work but I think all of us strive to the mumin direction ).

              peace

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                Man_of_Faith
                wrote on last edited by
                #115

                Peace sushi1992,

                4914 The Nomads said ?We believe.? Say ?You have not believed; but you should say ?We have submitted?, for belief has not yet entered into your hearts.? If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
                4915 Believers are those who believe in God and His messenger, then they became without doubt, and they strive with their money and their lives in the cause of God. These are the truthful ones.

                God bless you

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                  The_Chimp
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #116

                  Be good, one of two (only) criteria

                  282 And those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, they are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.

                  It sounds pretty simple, but of course it is not as simple as one may think when this is presented here, not to add that most people follow conjecture and listen to religious leaders and others, and thus lose focus on the real mission of Islam To purify our souls into betterment and become good beings, except the obvious discovery and realization that God exists which is why the Lord spends a substantial part of the book explaining how illogical it is not to believe in God.

                  It is surely amazing that mankind has always complicated things with lots of things in Islam while the Message has been so, sooo 'freaking' simple that anyone able to think clearly can understand and follow the creed. It sure is the (2) behavior and the deeds that are measured and can come in a grand variety compared to (1) Faith that is straight-forward since God is One, nothing else to argue about, the ultimate power of the Universe. And God wants people who have developed personalities and not Muhammad copies or Jesus copies but our own honest selves that can lead their own lives and stand on their own feet although relying on God and seeing Him as their superior.

                  Verse worthy of repetition

                  2112 No; whoever (1) submits himself to God, (2) WHILE doing GOOD, he will have his recompense with his Lord. There will be no fear over them, nor will they grieve.

                  How can I emphasize more on good in this verse and it is also echoed in other verses as presented and involved in other contexts of Islam too.

                  For those who still doubt my preachings I have this verse

                  2148 And to each is a direction that he will take, so you shall race towards good deeds. Wherever you may be, God will bring you all together. God is capable of all things.

                  This verse is unfortunately in the context of those verses which point at the disputable topic of Qiblah which I consider meaning spiritual focus and not a physical direction where people should pray towards but the creed itself is the Qiblah with its community ways, which might mean that cultural belongings is not entirely wrong and the identity and certain ways to be righteous can differ between them. I possess no further Knowledge to discuss any in depth on this topic other than I am sure it means the slight differences in spiritual views such as lighting candles in spiritual moments or any other ways as long as it does not derail into idolatry. That was my comments on Qiblah, but we can all debate what it means and it ought not to be overly important as you know by now in my thread now what Islam is about. It is a one-two creed.

                  Islam not more than simply balancing good vs. evil

                  It feels relatively fantastic that Islam is really not much more than good vs. evil, and rely on good which comes from God and get to know your Creator as well as bond with Him. And those who lack the intelligence to heed the clear signs of the Lord will eventually meet their doom. Some people simply cannot believe no matter what you do and are not working towards the good, means in God's eyes that you are not really believing either since you do not understand the Message, which Qur'an is part of, and obviously losing out on the minimum amount of Knowledge and Wisdom required in Islam as presented before in this thread and needs to be balanced together with the remaining parts. It is a big failure not to see that goodness is the fundamental part of Islam as seen in recent posts, and then that is not an understatement. Was that not the main point of the Gospel?

                  2195 And spend in the cause of God, but do not throw your resources to disaster. And do good, for God LOVES those who do good.

                  Simply put, God points out clearly that goodness is something that He loves and what other conclusion does the wise draw from that?

                  Let us continue with this verse revealed by God many centuries ago

                  2277 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, and keep their Mindfulness, and contribute towards Purification; they will have their recompense with their Lord and there is no fear over them nor will they grieve.

                  Note Contact prayer was changed into my understanding of Mindfulness. While it still may not be entirely accurate I believe that it is a much better and more accurate choice than contact prayer. I will try to meditate and seek more answers for the case of as-salat at some time soon, but not now although by looking at the root of that disputed word cannot mean more than the bonding and connection to God whereas I chose Mindfulness as my choice to describe the phenomenon in English while it is likely as translating Islam into English.

                  Here it continues with a verse which advocates good deeds in a manner that hints at it as the foundation of the whole Faith

                  3104 And let there be a nation from among you who (2) calls towards goodness, and (2) orders kindness, and prohibits vice. And these are the successful ones.

                  Dear brothers and sister; what other conclusion can you draw of Islam than a religion that wishes to establish Peace and Prosperity as ultimate aim?

                  • 3113 They are not all the same, from the followers of the Message are a nation that is upright; they recite the revelations of God during the night hours and they prostrate.
                    3114 They (1) believe in God and the (3) Last Day (Realm) and order kindness and prohibit vice, and they hasten in goodness; these are of the good doers.
                    3115 And what they do of good will not be turned back, and God is aware of the righteous.

                  If you "hasten" in goodness; how can you think that an benevolent God will give you lots of weird rites to distract you?

                  • Indicates that they are not necessarily "Muslims" by "label", but those who heed the Message either from the past, present or the future.

                  For those who love giving back in revenge and cannot easily get back to civil behavior

                  3133 And race towards forgiveness from your Lord and a Paradise whose width encompasses the width of the heavens and of the earth; it has been prepared for the righteous.
                  3134 The ones who spend in prosperity and hardship, and who repress anger, and who pardon the people; God loves the good doers.

                  436 And (1) serve God and do not set up anything with Him, and (2) do good to the parents, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the neighbor who is a relative, and the neighbor nearby, and the friend nearby, and the wayfarer, and those maintained by your oaths. God does not love the arrogant, the boastful.

                  "Treat thy neighbor as thyself" was a wise old saying allegedly originating from past Messengers. This above verse practically says the same. We must remember that charity does not always have to just mean cash up front. A smile and physical service towards someone can be worth just as much as money, if not more. The verse indicates that by doing the elements of it practically means that you do the service of God, another inclination that Islam is about harmony and justice among the people.

                  457 And those who (1) believe and (2) do good, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath them; abiding therein eternally, in it they will have pure mates, and We will admit them to a vast shade.

                  4122 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein eternally. The promise of God is truth; and who is more truthful in saying than God?

                  • 4123 It will not be by what you desire, nor by what the followers of the Message desire. Whoever works evil, he will be paid for it; and he will not find for himself besides God any supporter or victor.
                    4124 And whoever (2) works good, whether male or female, and is a (1) believer, then these will be admitted to the Paradise, and they will not be wronged in the least.
                    4125 And who is better in the system than the one who (1) submits himself to God, and he is a (2) good doer, and he follows the creed of Abraham in monotheism? And God took Abraham as a friend.

                  • The sectarians from from the revelations that came with Muhammad and the ones who today worship Jesus as God's son; to decide or the Jews. Face it, my dear brothers and sisters, the religious practices have no real value at all except follow the one-two way of serving God as I advocate in my posts. And it is primarily for what evil you did which will lead you towards doom. God is so very clear that he repeats the same phrase practically once before this verse and then after it with emphasis on belief and good deeds, and worth mentioning repeats the same theme in a subsequent verse again.

                  4173 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, He will give them their recompense and increase for them from His bounty. And as for those who are too (-) proud and arrogant, He will punish them a painful retribution, and they will not find besides God any supporter or victor.

                  • 4174 O people, proof has come to you from your Lord, and We have sent down to you a guiding light.
                    4175 As for those who (1) believe in God and hold fast to Him, He will admit them in a mercy from Him and a bounty, and He will guide them to Himself, a straight path.

                  • Yes. Surely the Message is very clear in Qur'an. IF Hold fast to God THEN will guide them to Himself on a straight path. Note that Qur'an is not required although it surely was sent down as an extra mercy from the Lord as a guide with clear guidelines. What will help you is to translate kitab as Message or Knowledge instead of physical book and you will see more clear into the Message. Everything that is bound to physical objects in this world is a risk of idolatry. The Message is bookless and jumped from people to people even though the majority failed to heed the Truth in it.

                  • 56 O you who believe, if you rise to keep your Mindfulness, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall purify. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful.
                    57 And remember the blessings of God over you and His covenant that He has bound you with, for which you have said ?We hear and obey,? and be aware of God; for God knows what is in the chests.
                    58 O you who believe, stand for God and be witnesses for justice, and let not the hatred towards a people make you avoid being just. Be just, for it is closer to righteousness, and (1) be aware of God. God is expert over what you do.
                    59 God has promised those who (1) believe and (2) do good works that they will have forgiveness and a great recompense.

                  • It is purely for the spiritual reasons that you do this and it is keeping a good hygiene. Feel how fresh you feel when you sense the "magical" water that God created touch your gentle skin. When you are clean it is easier to focus and keep the connection to God as it will be no distraction. The soil I suppose it must be clean sand which can be rubbed against the skin to remove the worst dirt. Have you never tried to clean your shoes against the ground? Obviously it is a last solution if you feel impure. Anyway, if it accomplishes nothing what is worth most is righteousness and goodness (2).

                  One of the verses which tries to convey the message that practically anyone who fulfills these criteria have a chance of Heaven

                  569 Surely those who (1) believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, (* and the "Muslims&quot, whoever of them (1) believes in God and the Last Day and (2) does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.

                  • Muslims here is not in the original script but would have been there in a revelation from the Lord if He would reveal one today, probably not with Muslim term but rather Muhammadan or similar.

                  Sorry that I repeat the same content in a long post, but I wanted to show you how repeated this content is in Qur'an and yet people even here on the forum argue about the fundamentals of Islam. Hope you persevere in reading this post as I hope you may change your approach to the Message and the Great Reading, God willing, after this.

                  Warnings about complicating the creed and traps

                  587 O you who believe, do not make unlawful the good things that God has made lawful to you, and do not aggress; God does not love the aggressors.

                  Have not the sects transgressed on this exhortation not to forbid lawful things and to aggress from right to left? There is no "love thy neighbor as thyself".

                  593 There is no sin upon those who (1) believe and (2) do good works for what they eat if they are aware and believe and do good works, then they are aware and believe, then they are aware and do good; God loves the good doers.

                  Eat in the name of God.

                  • 5100 Say ?The bad and the good are not equal, even if the abundance of the bad impresses you.? So (1) be aware of God, O you who possess intelligence, that you may succeed.

                  Trap, trap, trap. One may be fooled to commit evil because the crowd already does it. Behavior is contagious.

                  648 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners; whoever (1) believes, and (2) does good, then there is no fear for them nor will they grieve.

                  There is no Islam, only islam, so to say (even if it is easier to identify it as Islam, I use Islam anyways). "If I (3) follow the Message, (1) believe and (2) do good I am free from fear or worries about the future."

                  6151 Say ?Come let me recite what your Lord has made unlawful for you that you should (-1) not set up anything with Him - and (2) do good to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near immorality, what is public of it and private; and do not take the life which God has made forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend.?
                  6152 ?And do not come near the money of the orphan, except for what is best, until he reaches his independence; and give honestly full measure and weight equitably. We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear, and if you speak then be just even if against a relative; and regarding the pledges made to God, you shall observe them. This He has enjoined you that you may remember.?
                  6153 And this is My path, a straight one. ?So follow it, and do not follow the other paths lest they divert you from His path. That is what He has enjoined you to that you may be righteous.?

                  Look at this and see that the Message was detailed already on Musa/Moses' time. The Message is "Believe in God and do what is right."

                  6154 Then We gave Moses (3) the Message, to complete for those who (2) do right, and to fully detail all things, and a guide and mercy that they may (1) believe in the meeting of their Lord.

                  The often so-called Mosaic Law is from here and you surely know what it contains, for example, you should not kill and equivalent punishment, i.e eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, however Jesus taught that it is better to forgive than to punish. Much more righteous! Forget "religions" and join God's creed of "i"slam right away with two easy steps to focus on.

                  6155 And this is a (3) Message that We have sent down which is blessed, so follow it and be aware, that you may receive mercy.
                  6156 Lest you say ?The Message was only sent down to two groups before us, and we were unaware of their study!?

                  6159 Those who have divided their system and become sects, you are not with them in anything. Their matter will be with God, then He will inform them of what they had done.

                  This is what the majority of people on Earth have done sadly enough instead of uniting under the very same Message and instead they follow only conjecture and invented ideas which distract them from the true service of God. Any person from any "religion" can serve and revere the Lord together by two easy steps, (1) reverence and glorification, and (2) "treating the other neighbor as thyself". God's verse does not mean that you have to freeze them out, but their strange practices and service of God is what He means that you shall not participate in.

                  6160 Whoever comes with a (2) good deed, he will receive ten times its worth, and whoever comes with a sin, he will only be recompensed its like; they will not be wronged.

                  Minor sins are not so bad as long as your are mindful of them and repent your deeds. Sometimes it is difficult to get away from certain behavior (perhaps homosexuality?), but we shall always remember that one who sins shall surely be forgiven lesser sins with a bunch-load of (2) good and beautiful deeds as long as he keeps away from the major sins such as idolatry which is the backbone of Islam (1).

                  6162 Say (1) ?My Mindfulness, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to God, Lord of the worlds.?
                  6163 ?He has NO partner, and it is to this that I was commanded, and I am the first of those who have submitted.?

                  Indeed, He has no partner and the Messenger/Apostle/Missionary is only a deliverer of good news as well as a warner. Submit to the Lord of the Universe and give up on idolatry. The Prophet or Messenger or whatever Message-bearer from God has no importance compared to the Master of the Universe.

                  72 A (3) MESSAGE that has been sent down to you, so let there not be any burden in your chest from it, that (2) you may warn with it; and a (1) reminder to the believers.
                  73 (2,3) Follow what was sent down to you from your Lord, and do not follow besides Him any supporters. Little do you remember!

                  God is very thorough in The Great Reading and people have the Truth right in front of their very eyes, but most are deaf and blind and their mind is diseased and locked from taking in the Truth.

                  732 Say ?Who has made unlawful the nice things that God has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?? Say ?They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection.? It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.

                  "Where is my music? Where is my movie entertainment? Where is my (uncensored) Internet?" In certain locales the true Believers suffer because of the imbeciles. That is the day for millions of Iranians where I lived for a few years.

                  Say ?My Lord has made unlawful immorality; what is public of it and private; and sin, and aggression without cause, and that you set up partners with God that which He has never authorized, and that you say about God what you do not know.?

                  Always the sexuality is used as an aggression point for immorality as something to make an abomination while it means immoral as in deceive your wife or fool someone of money and many of the things The Great Reading goes through already up until this point. The funny thing is that traditionalists contradict the same verse with ideas and conjecture they have.

                  By the name of God; I should not even have to explain all this for you, but the Lord is Merciful, Most Kind. Do you not see that I wish to help you?

                  7188 Say ?I do not possess for myself any benefit or harm, except what God wills. And if I could know the future, then I would have increased my good fortune, and no harm would have come to me. I am but a warner and a bearer of good news to a people who believe.?

                  Muhammad was no superman, see? He was just an ordinary man who (1) believed and (2) did good and (3) believed the Message of old. Otherwise it is just a "say" command which anyone can say who feel hit by the urge to express the line. God blessed him because of this and he was a blessed man who excelled in this life and was promoted to Messenger/Apostle/Missionary and has a special link to God and at the same time part of God's plot.

                  Back to the good news for those who believe

                  742 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good; We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear; those are the dwellers of the Paradise, in it they will abide.

                  Enough evidence already, or?

                  837 This is so that God will distinguish the bad from the good, and so that the bad will be gathered together into one heap then He will cast it all into Hell. These are the losers.

                  This life is just a test that you may show that you qualify for God's Kingdom which Jesus preached about and all other Messengers every came to the face of the Earth.

                  971 And the believing males and the believing females, they are allies to one another. They (2) order good and prohibit vice, and they keep their (1) Mindfulness, and they contribute towards Purification and they (1,2,3) obey God and His messenger. God will have mercy on them; God is Noble, Wise.

                  Obey as in follow the very extremely simple Message of Islam and we know that the Messenger is only to make the reverent remind themselves of the Message and warn the Disbelievers.

                  109 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, their Lord will guide them by their Faith. Rivers will flow beneath them in gardens of bliss.

                  My circular diagram is confirmed in this verse. When you follow (1) and (2), your Lord will guide you and it does not require The Great Reading necessarily even if it is a big bonus for the Reverent.

                  1026 For (2) those who do good will be good and more, and their faces will not be darkened or humiliated. These are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.

                  Following the actions of the creed leads you far on the path.

                  1123 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, and are humble towards their Lord; they are the dwellers of the Paradise, in it they will remain.

                  11114 And hold the Mindfulness at two parts of the day, and the near part of the night. (2) The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.
                  11115 And be patient, for God does not waste the reward of the good doers.

                  Being mindful of God all around the clock and doing good will remove the sins eventually when you get closer and closer to God through Nearness and Guidance.

                  1256 And it was such that We gave Joseph authority in the land, to travel in it as he pleases. We bestow Our mercy upon whom We please, and We do not waste the reward of the good doers.
                  1257 And the reward of the Hereafter is better for those who believe and are aware.

                  Something that happened to Joseph could also happen to anyone of us if we had the same caliber as these past righteous people.

                  1329 The ones who have (1) believed, and have (2) done good works, there will be happiness for them and a wonderful abode.

                  1423 And those who (1) believed and (2) did good works were admitted to estates with rivers flowing beneath them. In them they will abide with the permission of their Lord. Their greeting therein is ?Peace.?

                  Final verses narrated to you (promise!)

                  1630 And it was said to those who were righteous ?What has your Lord sent down?? They said (2) ?All goodness.? For those who have done good in this world there is good; and the Hereafter is goodness. Excellent indeed is the home of the righteous.
                  1631 Gardens of delight; which they will enter, with rivers flowing beneath them, in it they will have what they wish. It is such that God rewards the righteous.
                  1632 Those whom their lives are terminated by the angels, while they had been good, they will say ?Peace be upon you, enter the Paradise because of that which you have done.?

                  Such a friendly reception the righteous will get once they leave this world. Actions lead to Peace and Prosperity.

                  Source Verses taken from Monotheist Qur'an (rev. 2013) with certain minor modifications to the text

                  This is how quickly "Quran only" fall from grace . . . this person has relied on someone else's translation - someone who agrees with him. Likely reason? He is not able to understand much Arabic.

                  Yet these are the points which in the above post he condemns in others. Ironic!

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                  • M Offline
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                    Man_of_Faith
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #117

                    Peace,

                    Despite using this translation I reach the same conclusion with other translations too. I could have used Sahih International and reached exactly the same conclusions. You do not think I have not thoroughly studied this? And would you think that all those translators could not accurately translate the original Arabic?

                    Of course it is easy for someone to use the Arabic deficiency argument to claim that one cannot understand the Message. I have good friends who read and often help explain the Arabic. Apart from deficiency God gladly helps in understanding the Message. But I am not entirely zeroed in Arabic, I know some basics.

                    You understand Arabic but you have no access to the Message anyhow so who has any real understanding anyways?

                    Yet these are the points which in the above post he condemns in others. Ironic!

                    Condemns what? EDIT It is depending on someone's translation of God's words and not on something that God did not originally write. The source is from God and what I propagated against is when you use conjecture from other sources and complicate the religion whereas God said He does not want to cause us hardship. So many translations cannot be wrong about it and also Sahih International says basically the same.

                    This is how quickly "Quran only" fall from grace . . . this person has relied on someone else's translation - someone who agrees with him. Likely reason? He is not able to understand much Arabic.

                    Yet these are the points which in the above post he condemns in others. Ironic!

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                      The_Chimp
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #118

                      Despite using this translation I reach the same conclusion with other translations too. I could have used Sahih International and reached exactly the same conclusions. You do not think I have not thoroughly studied this? And would you think that all those translators could not accurately translate the original Arabic?

                      I do think you have NOT thoroughly studied this. You have missed the point . . . which is about reliance on people. . . . something you are doing and you have condemned in others. . .

                      Also . . . you did not use Sahih International - you chose the one which goes with your beliefs. I mean I would NEVER EVER use that particular translation.

                      Of course it is easy for someone to use the Arabic deficiency argument to claim that one cannot understand the Message. I have good friends who read and often help explain the Arabic. Apart from deficiency God gladly helps in understanding the Message. But I am not entirely zeroed in Arabic, I know some basics.

                      Looking at the rhetoric coming from you . . . I would think it would be priority for you to learn Arabic. . .

                      Apart from deficiency God gladly helps in understanding the Message.

                      Incorrect. This is NOT how it works . . .if you cannot be bothered to learn the language and then claim this . . . I find that sheer nonsense.

                      You understand Arabic but you have no access to the Message anyhow so who has any real understanding anyways?

                      I do not know what this means.

                      Condemns what?

                      "not to add that most people follow conjecture and listen to religious leaders and others"

                      Just one example of your past quote. . . "Quran only" are quick to say this . . . yet are guilty of the exact same crime. Ironic.

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                        Man_of_Faith
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #119

                        Peace,

                        Also . . . you did not use Sahih International - you chose the one which goes with your beliefs. I mean I would NEVER EVER use that particular translation.

                        No I did not use Sahih International, but it would come to the same point regardless.

                        Looking at the rhetoric coming from you . . . I would think it would be priority for you to learn Arabic. . .

                        My choice.

                        Incorrect. This is NOT how it works . . .if you cannot be bothered to learn the language and then claim this . . . I find that sheer nonsense.

                        Indeed this is how it works. How do you think the people who did not have access to "the Recitation" were righteous and guided? It is arrogance to think that Arabic would be required to know the Message and that one people is chosen at the exclusion of all other people.

                        I do not know what this means.

                        It means understanding the Message. You surely ought to know what the Message is if you have read the book.

                        "not to add that most people follow conjecture and listen to religious leaders and others"

                        Not so much that if you follow what the book says no matter if it is a good translation or not. I could reach practically the same conclusion using a translation like Sahih International.

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                          Man_of_Faith
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #120

                          Anyways, can I have my Faith in peace now? I am not writing on this thread to argue with those who do not appreciate what I have written. You are welcome to have your "Sunny" ideology and I will have mine. We can wait and see about the Truth later on.

                          If there is a way I follow it is the way of God, strict monotheism. I believe in God and I work hard to be a good person. And as you might have seen in this thread I only follow three parameters, Faith in God, that I will be held responsible for my deeds and that I should do good deeds. If you wish to believe in more rules in your creed feel free to do it but I will keep it to this. It is fair and hard enough for me and I do not want to make it any more complicated. That is the Message, I have heeded the Message and I would heed it again and again until I die.

                          Peace

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                            The_Chimp
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #121

                            No I did not use Sahih International, but it would come to the same point regardless.

                            Yet - using the one you did use in itself was/is and has been revealing.

                            My choice.

                            Sure. And this would lessen the "sanctimony" then . . . on one hand preach "Quran alone" on the other cannot EVEN be bothered to learn Arabic.

                            Contradictory . . . I think the word is "Hypocrisy"

                            Indeed this is how it works. How do you think the people who did not have access to "the Recitation" were righteous and guided? It is arrogance to think that Arabic would be required to know the Message and that one people is chosen at the exclusion of all other people.

                            Huh? It is FACT and basic common understanding that Arabic is 100% without a doubt needed! It is completely silly and illogical to say it is not.

                            Just because Quran is in Arabic - does NOT mean Arabs are somehow the chosen ones. . . I mean as a non-Arab I have better understanding of Classical Arabic than normal native Arabs. As I have studied the Grammar and other linguistic sciences and others have not. In fact . . . why don't you do bit of study? I think you will find often those developing Arabic were non-Arabs.

                            How is God helping you any different than Qadiani claimed he was helped?

                            It means understanding the Message. You surely ought to know what the Message is if you have read the book.

                            I still do not know what point you were trying to make.

                            "Just one example of your past quote. . . "Quran only" are quick to say this . . . yet are guilty of the exact same crime. Ironic. "

                            You could not put up an answer . . .

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                              The_Chimp
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #122

                              Anyways, can I have my Faith in peace now? I am not writing on this thread to argue with those who do not appreciate what I have written. You are welcome to have your "Sunny" ideology and I will have mine. We can wait and see about the Truth later on.

                              If there is a way I follow it is the way of God, strict monotheism. I believe in God and I work hard to be a good person. And as you might have seen in this thread I only follow three parameters, Faith in God, that I will be held responsible for my deeds and that I should do good deeds. If you wish to believe in more rules in your creed feel free to do it but I will keep it to this. It is fair and hard enough for me and I do not want to make it any more complicated. That is the Message, I have heeded the Message and I would heed it again and again until I die.

                              Peace

                              This is repeatedly the problem . . . when "Quran only" are clearly shown to be wrong . . . you take offense and come up with such excuses.

                              If you are such a believer in "live and let live" - then you should have think before condemning others. . . and then at least have the sense to realize that others are going to respond. Do not give it - if you cannot take it.


                              It is a simple question . . . how is your guidance any different from which "Qadiani" claimed.


                              Islam IS the faith of Sunni and Shia. End of.

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                                Man_of_Faith
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #123

                                I am not particularly offended, only that I know better than to get involved in pointless discussions. I try to minimize with those which will not lead anywhere. You have not shown anything to be wrong.

                                Yet - using the one you did use in itself was/is and has been revealing.

                                Would not have changed my outcome of the study nevertheless.

                                Sure. And this would lessen the "sanctimony" then . . . on one hand preach "Quran alone" on the other cannot EVEN be bothered to learn Arabic.

                                Perhaps I should preach God alone then, which in fact I do.

                                You could not put up an answer . . .

                                To be honest I was not even trying.

                                You can discuss Sunni or Shia Islam in the appropriate forum section please. Here I discuss something else.

                                Peace

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                                  The_Chimp
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #124

                                  I am not particularly offended, only that I know better than to get involved in pointless discussions. I try to minimize with those which will not lead anywhere. You have not shown anything to be wrong.

                                  Actually I have.

                                  Would not have changed my outcome of the study nevertheless.

                                  This is just diversion from the actual argument.

                                  Perhaps I should preach God alone then, which in fact I do.

                                  Which leads to doing what God did . . . relied on men to convey his message . . . what was that again?

                                  You do not like the people he chose, the person, language . . .

                                  To be honest I was not even trying.

                                  You can discuss Sunni or Shia Islam in the appropriate forum section please. Here I discuss something else.

                                  So you are happy when it is going your way . . . bashing other. When others come to bite . . . hey you can retreat all you want.

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                                    Man_of_Faith
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #125

                                    Actually I have.

                                    Amen to that then.

                                    This is just diversion from the actual argument.

                                    No.

                                    So you are happy when it is going your way . . . bashing other. When others come to bite . . . hey you can retreat all you want.

                                    Yeah. There is no point in arguing. Believe in what you believe and I will believe in God, responsibility for my behavior and do good deeds for my neighbor and other people. May God take good care of you.

                                    Peace

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                                      The_Chimp
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #126

                                      No.

                                      Saying "No" is not going to help establish whether you are diverting away or not from the argument. Your simple denial here is meaningless.

                                      Yeah. There is no point in arguing. Believe in what you believe and I will believe in God, responsibility for my behavior and do good deeds for my neighbor and other people. May God take good care of you.

                                      Why don't you remember such might fine rhetoric . . . BEFORE trying to condemn others? Hey! Then such pious sanctimony might actually come across as sincere!

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                                        Man_of_Faith
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #127

                                        Peace,

                                        Not condemning anyone. God chooses Himself what will be with everyone. But I choose to believe while doing good and I stand for that. Choose to believe like the majority and do like them is nothing for me while I know certain Truth. God suffices me.

                                        I only asked that discussion about traditional views against this Islam to be kept out of this thread. It is for those who already believe in this Message.

                                        May God bless you

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                                          drfazl
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #128

                                          Chimp is no Champ

                                          Yet - using the one you did use in itself was/is and has been revealing.

                                          Sure. And this would lessen the "sanctimony" then . . . on one hand preach "Quran alone" on the other cannot EVEN be bothered to learn Arabic.

                                          Huh? It is FACT and basic common understanding that Arabic is 100% without a doubt needed! It is completely silly and illogical to say it is not.

                                          Just because Quran is in Arabic - does NOT mean Arabs are somehow the chosen ones. . . I mean as a non-Arab I have better understanding of Classical Arabic than normal native Arabs. As I have studied the Grammar and other linguistic sciences and others have not. In fact . . . why don't you do bit of study? I think you will find often those developing Arabic were non-Arabs.

                                          Peace,

                                          I would appreciate you giving the wisdom and sign from the following "Grand Signs of Allah" using only the Arabic used in the verses below; and explain each verse in simple and plain English, using your Arabic linguistic excellence alone bring out each of their Signs of admonitions and glad tidings so that it strengthens my iman in Allah; and therewith I become a muslim unto Allah, and at salam with Allah as the malayika receive my soul with "Salam" adjudging me as a muslim finally, by the leave of Allah, The All-Knowing, The Knower of All Languages, thus Him making me among "the Foremost".

                                          891 By the Dawn

                                          892 By the Nights twice five

                                          893 By the even and odd

                                          (By Allah, Chimp is no champ)

                                          Peace

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