She's Not Naked !!!
-
I also say to you, no thanks, I am well served with what God has granted me. Very, very well served and I am very, very thankful to Him and to the person He has awarded me. May God bless him forever, and bless all the men who are faithful to Him and not arrogant nor boastful but, as good people and good men, are always willing to protect and help their society, rather than command others around. May God bless them always and make present to them the depth of the gratitude of the people who love them from their hearts.
Salaam
-
I also say to you, no thanks, I am well served with what God has granted me. Very, very well served and I am very, very thankful to Him and to the person He has awarded me. May God bless him forever, and bless all the men who are faithful to Him and not arrogant nor boastful but, as good people and good men, are always willing to protect and help their society, rather than command others around. May God bless them always and make present to them the depth of the gratitude of the people who love them from their hearts.
Salaam
Your sincerity towards unrighteousness is not going to make it acceptable, why are you praying on a forum anyway, are you in a state of ablution? Who do you think is better according to God's opinion/judgment? Is it someone that takes the safe approach and regards the teachings of the Quran to mean what they should mean. Or someone who nullifies them, as if they were mentioned for no reason.
It is mentioned that men should teach the believing women to throw the excess of their head coverings over their breast area. How can one go from this to thinking it's completely acceptable for women to display body in a bikini to the public?
Peace
-
Women in those opressing, restriting settings certainy suffer from the bad minds and manners of consented males, who behave as if they owned the whole earth and above all, of the women that walk on it. That is a social mental deasease, which thanks to religious manifpulation they think that it is not their disease, but their own good right.
Correct,
Nomadic and hunter-gatherer human society views 'the female of our enemy / not within our group or tribe' as among 'the hunted game', they're free to take, if you can 'hunt' them. This view is consistent to be found across all nomadic / hunter-gatherer society, from dessert Arabia, Europe, up to Mongolian steppes.If you read the Hadith and Tanakh, women are among the 'spoil of war' to be taken..
The Romans, although they claimed to be the 'most civilized society' during their time, also take women from their conquered neighboring 'barbaric' tribes as spoil of war.Heck, even as late as 1945, The Russian troop raped 2 Million Germanic women as they put a siege to Berlin!
So does the Japanese towards Chinese, Korean, Thais, Vietnamese and Malay women!This is actually the 'default' view of our "highly civilized ancestor".
And I think the reason the Quran put a recommendation to women for not 'attracting any unwanted attention' (through their clothing, jewelry) is for the sole reason of THEIR OWN SAFETY and SECURITY. In other words, do not wear or do anything to attract attention from those "highly civilized gentlemen" around you.
In similar manner as I will recommend any women to not wearing any jewelry when they're going into Detroit !
Because there's plenty of "highly civilized gentlemen" to be found there..If the place is safe enough, feel free to dress in any manner that you want..
Dress code has nothing to do with morality.Salam / Peace
-
Correct,
Nomadic and hunter-gatherer human society views 'the female of our enemy / not within our group or tribe' as among 'the hunted game', they're free to take, if you can 'hunt' them. This view is consistent to be found across all nomadic / hunter-gatherer society, from dessert Arabia, Europe, up to Mongolian steppes.That's disgusting.
If you read the Hadith and Tanakh, women are among the 'spoil of war' to be taken..
The Romans, although they claimed to be the 'most civilized society' during their time, also take women from their conquered neighboring 'barbaric' tribes as spoil of war.Another very displeasing belief by majority of the muslims. Women were actually helped, brought to the city of the Messenger probably to some refugee camp where they would get helped and could then marry a man if they agreed to it. But not have sex, they weren't simply given out to men, but men could ask for one if that man was reliable according to the Prophets judgment and if the woman wanted him as well. As you may know from the Quran, God tells Muhammed to let the captive women into a mans possession if he is good, meaning to take care of her, get married to her.
Therefore there is no such thing as women spoils of war, or attaining a slave woman as an option given to men in this world.
It is only in the case of a real war where women who had husbands end up alone and have no means to support themselves. At that point the leader, takes them to his city and controls the captives until they find a way. It has nothing to do with men taking them and having sex with them. Wow!Heck, even as late as 1945, The Russian troop raped 2 Million Germanic women as they put a siege to Berlin!
So does the Japanese towards Chinese, Korean, Thais, Vietnamese and Malay women!This is actually the 'default' view of our "highly civilized ancestor".
Disgusting
And I think the reason the Quran put a recommendation to women for not 'attracting any unwanted attention' (through their clothing, jewelry) is for the sole reason of THEIR OWN SAFETY and SECURITY. In other words, do not wear or do anything to attract attention from those "highly civilized gentlemen" around you.
That isn't so good, as God clearly states that men get desirous of women, and he clearly states that they should display their garments only to their husband, and that's garments, not their sexual appeal.
In similar manner as I will recommend any women to not wearing any jewelry when they're going into Detroit !
Because there's plenty of "highly civilized gentlemen" to be found there..Of course, women should avoid dangerous situations at all times.
If the place is safe enough, feel free to dress in any manner that you want..
Dress code has nothing to do with morality.And you do this instead of teaching women to dress modestly? Lower their gaze? Cover their breasts using the excess scarf of her head which implies is to be covered as well. To not display their garments to people other than the ppl mentioned in the Quran? And to not stomp hard so as to shake the private parts of the body?
Instead of teaching them what you should, you tell them to feel free to dress any way they want?
Dress code is part of morality, and besides it has everything to do with what God teaches his creatures.
Peace
-
Peace,
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
This verse suits the context of that article about women who swim commit adultery and eating bananas is immoral.
God bless you
-
Peace to all,
Conclusion from the thread
The book (2431) teaches "and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments" but as it does not speak about the beach then some (women) assume it is alright to go around in bikinis, hiding only parts of the breast and small parts from gluteus maximus?
Wisdom?
Peace
-
Peace to all,
Conclusion from the thread
The book (2431) teaches "and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments" but as it does not speak about the beach then some (women) assume it is alright to go around in bikinis, hiding only parts of the breast and small parts from gluteus maximus?
Wisdom?
Peace
Why do you say maximus? In fact what you are describing looks like minimus as bikinis go. I wonder what kind of bikinis you have been lokking at and how much you have measured of what they covered. I am impressed, such precision. But that assertion shows bias on your part to portray bikini as disreputable as possible, never mind acuracy.
And in the thread not only women, as you purport, have spoken as bikini being right in the beach. In fact it has been only one woman and severla men doing so. More bias.
What I find weird is that nobody seems to find anything wrong with oggling, while many seem ready to give lessons to women over and over and over ad nauseam as to modesty, more modesty, more modesty and tons of it, but oggling... who cares? Great prospects for muslims, really.
Salaam
-
What I find weird is that nobody seems to find anything wrong with oggling, while many seem ready to give lessons to women over and over and over ad nauseam as to modesty, more modesty, more modesty and tons of it, but oggling... who cares? Great prospects for muslims, really.
Salaam
Salaam,
who cares about that.
Yes it is in The Quran it is in fact the first command but we men like to focus on the duties of others yes
2430salaam,
Bender -
Therefore there is no such thing as women spoils of war, or attaining a slave woman as an option given to men in this world.
It happened for many centuries, it's a historical fact, that show how 'civilized' the big ape is.
It is only in the case of a real war where women who had husbands end up alone and have no means to support themselves. At that point the leader, takes them to his city and controls the captives until they find a way. It has nothing to do with men taking them and having sex with them. Wow!DisgustingThat isn't so good, as God clearly states that men get desirous of women, and he clearly states that they should display their garments only to their husband, and that's garments, not their sexual appeal.Of course, women should avoid dangerous situations at all times.
Like I said it's related to 'security' and not 'morality'.
Women or men should avoid danger at all time.I've given you the Detroit example.
Detroit is full of criminals. Robbers, Rapist, Drug Dealers you name it.
What's the practical recommendation for common decent people living in Detroit?
Try to reduce the risk of being robbed, raped and murdered.
Because fighting the criminals is not within the reach of 'common people'.That's what exactly Quran do with such recommendation TO MUHAMMAD.
Muhammad et, al, was living in the middle of barbaric nomadic society in 7th century Arabia / Middle East.
Robber, Rapist, Murderer you name it they got it.What's the practical recommendation for their safety?
Try to reduce the risk of being robbed, raped and murdered.
Dress modestly do not attract attention do not wear jewelry.Instead of teaching them what you should, you tell them to feel free to dress any way they want?
Dress code is part of morality, and besides it has everything to do with what God teaches his creatures.It seems that your God is a fashionista..
We definitely have different view / definition of what God is.If "Dress code is part of morality" as you said, definitely ALL BABIES ARE IMMORAL.
Given they were born into this world NAKED!Besides, your many much great ancestor dressed like this
http//trekpapua.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/yali-he.jpgSo you're saying the above Papuan women are IMMORAL??? Because THE WAY THEY DRESSED FOR MANY CENTURIES??
Note It's totally safe for them to dress as such in Papua, they're not getting raped, robbed, molested or anything.
Salam / Peace
-
Why do you say maximus?
http//tianlong-acupuncture.com/images/gluteus-mm.gif
What I find weird is that nobody seems to find anything wrong with oggling, while many seem ready to give lessons to women over and over and over ad nauseam as to modesty, more modesty, more modesty and tons of it, but oggling... who cares? Great prospects for muslims, really.
Salaam
Peace sister,
was expecting this question.
I condemn oggling, but when you go to the beach it's probably not just "believers" there, therefore, one can expect oggling. You can not tell a disbeliever to lower his gaze only because the book you believe in says so. He would surely not care about your book, nor your judgement/deen as he have his own judgement/deen.
I as a man avoid going to the beach, not only because Im weak to the beauty of women, but also because I too get to much attention when Im there. Im not better than you sister nor are you better than me. For me, you as a woman and me as a man are equals, but that is not the subject spoken of in this thread.
When a believer talk to another believer about a subject, i expect that it is about learning and / or teaching and not about winning arguments. I hope we agree on this one.
Peace
-
Salaam
I see many threads about this, but for many centuries muslims still confused about this.
What kind of religion is this?? rotfl
-
I really do not see much connection between one thing and the other. To start with, 33.32 refers exclusively to the Prophet's wives, in fact it says clearly "you are not like any other women". That is, the wives of a particular person who is known widely as a prophet, and of that particular prophet within their own context.
Peace
huruf and all.Those two phrases in Red needs to be clarified for now because I have some basic questions which I feel you could answer.
3332 O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah , then do not be soft and sweet even in speech to men, lest he in whose heart is evil desire should desire, so speak with appropriate speech.
You are not like anyone among women
The context is God says to the women folks about the wives of the Prophets that
-
They are the wives of the Prophets
-
They are like the mothers of your whole female society
-
They have to be a model unto the other women in their society
-
They cannot speak to the other women what they do not do themselves
-
The other women were wandering
-
"O wives of the prophets As mothers that you are you cannot allow them to be that way"
-
They speak sweetly and softly to the strangers
-
"O wives of the prophets As mothers that your are you shall not allow them behave that way any more
-
And recommend them to speak to the strangers from behind a veil
-
And counsel them that they stayed indoors."
Under such context, we see the mothers' behaviour i.e. the Prophets wives' living as the live behavioural model for the entire female society of the world. All the prophets' wives from the time of Adam that the prophets started coming to us preached this while practising and making a behavioural code which God made it as that shall be the inherent moral quality of every mother till the end of the world.
You can see every female, the mother in any society cutting across the religion, caste and creed admonishing their daughters with this when they come of age "O my child, you are now not a little girl; you are not like any other girls now; you shall have to be very careful about the strangers; do not be smiling at the strangers while speaking to them with sweetness in your voice; come home early before dusk; do not be hanging around as you did before late in the evenings; stay indoors where it is possible for you."
The context of 3332 is this 336 The Prophet is more worthy for the believers than themselves, and his wives are in the position of their mothers.
Any further to this is welcome from one and all.
Peace
-
-
Well, she is not going to work or the shops or for a walk inthe neighbourhood in bikini, is she? According to the ulema and their rules as spread out by the supermuslims of today, a man could well walk into a masjid barebreasted. Wearing a bikini in the beach is not shocking, doing that in a masjid would be shocking, for me at least. So, it is a matter of standpoint. Myself I find the bikini the most comfortable attire for simming and bathing, although, when out of the water I put something wlse on for fear of the sun.
As somebody has already said, if that king of thing would land us in hell, I am sure the truthful Qur'an would have said it very clearly, and insisted on it. As it is, the Qur'an does not insist on things like that nor says anything of the kind. Would we be left with the opinions of many times emotionnally and mentally unbalanced people for things like that? There are many things on which the Qur'an insists, insists, insists and on which we rarely spend so many words and insistence ourselves, like badmouthing others.
Also, what the usual thing is in your environment is important, for your sake and comfort more than for anything else.
Salaam
bravo bravo bravo
-
Peace
huruf and all.Those two phrases in Red needs to be clarified for now because I have some basic questions which I feel you could answer.
3332 O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah , then do not be soft and sweet even in speech to men, lest he in whose heart is evil desire should desire, so speak with appropriate speech.
You are not like anyone among women
The context is God says to the women folks about the wives of the Prophets that
-
They are the wives of the Prophets
-
They are like the mothers of your whole female society
-
They have to be a model unto the other women in their society
-
They cannot speak to the other women what they do not do themselves
-
The other women were wandering
-
"O wives of the prophets As mothers that you are you cannot allow them to be that way"
-
They speak sweetly and softly to the strangers
-
"O wives of the prophets As mothers that your are you shall not allow them behave that way any more
-
And recommend them to speak to the strangers from behind a veil
-
And counsel them that they stayed indoors."
Under such context, we see the mothers' behaviour i.e. the Prophets wives' living as the live behavioural model for the entire female society of the world. All the prophets' wives from the time of Adam that the prophets started coming to us preached this while practising and making a behavioural code which God made it as that shall be the inherent moral quality of every mother till the end of the world.
You can see every female, the mother in any society cutting across the religion, caste and creed admonishing their daughters with this when they come of age "O my child, you are now not a little girl; you are not like any other girls now; you shall have to be very careful about the strangers; do not be smiling at the strangers while speaking to them with sweetness in your voice; come home early before dusk; do not be hanging around as you did before late in the evenings; stay indoors where it is possible for you."
The context of 3332 is this 336 The Prophet is more worthy for the believers than themselves, and his wives are in the position of their mothers.
Any further to this is welcome from one and all.
Peace
The prophet is a model for all humanity, he is the model, not his wives. Nowehre are we told to follow the wives of the Prophet. In fact we know from the Qur'an that the fact that somebody is a wife or husband of somebody else is no gurantee of anything. And we, males or females, definitely are not told to follow the Prophet's wives.
His wives are mothers of the believers, of both sexes. You could understand from the text that they are only mothers of the males, since the form used can be masculine plural or mixed plural, but clearly not feminine plural, so no, they are not just mothers of the women believers, if anything, it owuld be just of the men, and that is the way that at least some shia understand that aya, that they are only mothers of the male believers because they cannot marry any of them and that that is the reason they are called mothers of the believers. That however is not my understanding, they are mothers of all the believers males and females. Clearly not just mothers of the believing females.
So, if the motherhood has any implication of modelling, they are a model for all believers in whatever in following the prohet, in undertaking sacrifice , in being patient in hardship, and self restrain, like not because they have won over the enemy now and there is prosperity they should fall into the self exhibition and self-indulgence that they could afford as powerful people. That is clearly stated when it is said textually that the are not like any woman. Other owmen could not afford that, are not in a position of power and social standing as they are.
And, please, aya 33.35 is quite eloquent. There is no priviledged position for one sex over the other as to being things narrower for one than the other.
Anybody can extract whatever he or she wants from a given text if at any given time that understanding helps him or her along, but I really, for the best of my intent, what I see is that as model hor humanity, the prophet is given and as mothers, his wives. He is not given as a father ?why? and on the other hand a plurality of women, very diverse, are given as mothers to males and females, when, as it is a fact and the saying goes "mother there is only one". There is food for thought. Whatever example as mothers they give is for both, unless it is understood that mothers can neglect their sons and not their daughters. Nowhere in the Qur'an a different morality is established for males and females, as 33.35, already mentioned, makes it day-clear and also clear what 33.32 cannot mean.
I insist that to me the insistence on the modesty of women, neglecting the duties of males to their own self-respect and to the respect the owe others, particularly women, is a infested moral wound that will end up destroying muslims societies. It is already doing so. All societies destroy themselves starting with their lack of respect for womanhood. It is impossible to disrespect womanhood and then pretend that anything else is respected. If you do not respect the mother you do not respect what comes from her.
In crime, it is clear that men overwhelmly outrun women, they make up almost all murderers, of the killers, the rapers, the robbers, etc. etc. And they kill women. But, to note, they kill far more men than women. Which goes to show that by the sunna of God, women are not trampled on with impunity. Men, when they destroy and try to make of women a possession of them, destroy themselves.
Again, women are not the problem. So all the pages that many self-called muslims use up in the millions to put women int their place, and axect from them, and impose on them, which reveal their obssession with power, are in fact shackles they put on themselves and in the process they destroy humanity, women and themselves.
Are the mothers of the believers supposed to be an encouragement for that? Or why, again are we given a variety of mothers and no fathers in the Qur'an? Can you come up with an answer for that? That is a far more interesting question than splitting hairs on women's fashion.
I can imagine that if they saw what is going on, our misunderstood quranic mothers would be horrified.
On the other hand any decent contemporaneous woman in many countries would be offended, that feel their mothers are insulted with this kind of accussations of indecency because of the bikini. Mothers and aunts and all kinds of women wear bikini in the beach, when they are with their family or friends or alone and they are not inviting to anything, they are just having a healthy enjoyable time with their children and other members of the family or with friends, or alone. But the watchdogs of male property of the universe cannot leave them alone.
24.12 Why did not the believers - men and women - when ye heard of the affair,- put the best construction on it in their own minds and say, "This (charge) is an obvious lie"?
I am sad to say so, but really I think that Muslim minds are so much obscured, so much constricted in a narrow passage between walls where they do not see open air that they but on themselves oll the time. The Fatiha, instedad of opening existence to them, seems to be a key that has ben thrown away after locking the door with them inside, with no air or company but their own narrow selves.
And instead of reacting and changing, they press for more obscurity and more lockedness, as if that would give them finally the longed for absolute power over women, over the universe. Shaytanic.
Really I do not trust that kind of muslims, I trust God, and trust that whatever help will come will be from Him, not from the parrots of male power obssession.
All that said, I do appreciate indeed your input, drfazl, and believe you are
a spiritually gifted and inspiring person, but that is a reason for me to try to be very frank in what I say. Thank you.Salaam
-
-
The prophet is a model for all humanity, he is the model, not his wives. Nowehre are we told to follow the wives of the Prophet. In fact we know from the Qur'an that the fact that somebody is a wife or husband of somebody else is no gurantee of anything. And we, males or females, definitely are not told to follow the Prophet's wives.
Salaam
Peace
huruf,- O believers! Pay heed unto God, and pay heed unto the Apostle and unto those from among you who have been entrusted with authority; and if you are at variance over any matter, refer it unto God and the Apostle, if you believe in God and the Last Day. This is the best , and best in the end.
If you see the above verse, the general rule is that the mothers are entrusted with the authority to bring up their children and the girls in turn shall keep it up as their bounded duty to follow Allah and rear their offsprings accordingly.
336 The Prophet is more worthy for the believers than themselves, and his wives are in the position of their mother.
And as you have rightly said the wives of the prophets are the mothers to both the sexes in mixed plurality; but when the daughters come of age it is the mothers who are closer to counsel them in matters relating to male, female relationship than the fathers. In this context, verse 3332 deals directly with the wives of the prophets i.e the mothers of all the world, all time to come, to counsel the female members of their respective societies.
peace
-
So, if the motherhood has any implication of modelling, they are a model for all believers in whatever in following the prohet, in undertaking sacrifice , in being patient in hardship, and self restrain, like not because they have won over the enemy now and there is prosperity they should fall into the self exhibition and self-indulgence that they could afford as powerful people. That is clearly stated when it is said textually that the are not like any woman. Other owmen could not afford that, are not in a position of power and social standing as they are.
I totally agree with this observation; except for one thing the very important duty of the mothers with respect to male-female relationship which has not taken a mention in the reply.
peace.
-
I insist that to me the insistence on the modesty of women, neglecting the duties of males to their own self-respect and to the respect the owe others, particularly women, is a infested moral wound that will end up destroying muslims societies. It is already doing so. All societies destroy themselves starting with their lack of respect for womanhood. It is impossible to disrespect womanhood and then pretend that anything else is respected. If you do not respect the mother you do not respect what comes from her.
Peace
Allah says the women folk shall safeguard their modesty from men, by themselves, very strongly with the help of Allah if they follow what "The Mother" advises them. 3332, 33, 34
In crime, it is clear that men overwhelmly outrun women, they make up almost all murderers, of the killers, the rapers, the robbers, etc. etc. And they kill women. But, to note, they kill far more men than women. Which goes to show that by the sunna of God, women are not trampled on with impunity. Men, when they destroy and try to make of women a possession of them, destroy themselves.
I agree men are overwhelmingly evil to the core both instinctively and plotting wise. Even males themselves cannot save them from evil men. Following Allah is the easiest way and the firmest and the only way for the women to be safe all their lives. Stay indoors; speak to the strangers determined firmness and from behind a veil; do not loiter on the streets like the ignorant ones of afore times.
Peace
-
Peace
Allah says the women folk shall safeguard their modesty from men, by themselves, very strongly with the help of Allah if they follow what "The Mother" advises them. 3332, 33, 34
I agree men are overwhelmingly evil to the core both instinctively and plotting wise. Even males themselves cannot save them from evil men. Following Allah is the easiest way and the firmest and the only way for the women to be safe all their lives. Stay indoors; speak to the strangers determined firmness and from behind a veil; do not loiter on the streets like the ignorant ones of afore times.
Peace
I disagree on your reading of those ayas of the Qur'an and above all on the conclusions you extract from those readings.
I very strongly desagree that hiding be always the best way to defend oneself for any length of time. I disagree that hiding in their homes is going to safeguard women from all evil. I does not and even if it did, at what price? And also it is not possible. Women do work, women are obliged to work outside the home, they have always worked and been obliged to work outside the home. Only the upper classes have been kept in the home.
When you say that women be kept in the homes, you are authorizing all the males to trample on them because the solution is in them, on the women, they the males, do not have to do anything whatsover.
Women are not necessarily safe in their homes nor are they necessarily in danger ouside their homes.
I am an old woman and I have never suffered any agression in spite of always having enjoyed complete freedom. And harassment I have only experienced in the very old days in Spain when the dirty men assumed that it was their good right to harass, and after that I have only experienced it in "muslim" countries, where in fact the men are lolled with the self complacent tirade that it is upon women to keep the male chaste, as if they were not already filthy to the core (those who cling to that ("morality".
Summing up, I disagree completely with your reading of those ayas. You are setting your own premise first and then try to accommodate the Qur'an to your premise.
Also I strongly disagree that males are necessarily evil. They are evil because with teachings such as the one I am contesting they are being convinced that there is nothing wrong with them imposing their exigencies on women and turning things upside down so that the onus is always on women. No, you might get here and there a woman who gets better with this injunctions you say, but you make all men downright rotten because you are saying it is somebody else that is resposnible for their virtue and they do not have to do anything to protect their women.
No, all males are not evil, and all males are not rotten, and with the kind of crap they are fed it is really a miracle. There are very good men who do not rely on women being subservient to their "weaknesses" and who respect women, because it is beatiful to respect women, because it is beautiful to talk with women, because women are beautiful and a gift of God to be able to have them as companions overall, just as it is a gift from God to wnjoy de company of kind, gentle men and even hadsome men, be they relatives, friends, acquaintances, the plumbers, airflight attendants or whatever.
In fact what I get from this thing of keeping women un der house arrest is a hate for women. Why, if you do not hate them would you like to have them imprisonned for life? I would rather die than be kept prisonner my whole life. It is so cruel... how can anybody come up with something like that?
When you get there, in fact all men become evil precisely because they refuse to protect women, protect their freedom, their integrity. They are apparently put in danger and the solution purported honest men come up with is to imprison women? Is that the attitude of real men, devoted men, courageous men? Excuse me, but that is the attitude of tyrants and cowards. What a disgusting lot would that be.
I am sorry but I cannot recognize anything of the Qur'an in that attitute and I am not used, and I do not want to get used, to consider cowardice as a manly virtue. Neither I like coward women. It is cowards who give cover to criminals and tyrants.
Many women sacrifice their freedom because of their children, but men who contribute to that will have to answer for such heinous thing.
Are all women of today so lucky that they all have a prophet as husband? That would be the only justification to pretend from them whatever it is that the aya is enjoining.
Those women who have virtuous men as fathers or husbands or brothers or sons, even if not prophets, do not have any problem in living in freedom. Good men protect their women and do not tolerate that the become the prey or the victims of disolute idiots.
A portion of the males do seem to have problems living in freedom since they misuse that freedom to offend others and imprison others. So all power to them? is that what the Qur'an enjoins? I do not have any trouble in answering that. No, those men have no place in any society least of all in a society of believers. Does not the Qur'an say that oppression is worse than murder. What you propound is oppresion of women and of virtuous men, making them subservient to disolute mongers.
Salaam
-
I disagree on your reading of those ayas 3332, 33 and 34 of the Qur'an and above all on the conclusions you extract from those readings. You are setting your own premise first and then try to accommodate the Qur'an to your premise.
Salam sister huruf,
I am afraid I am terribly mistaken as one belonging to Sunni fanatic fundamental activist. I respect the believers and by nature my kindness leans towards the believing males and females of the society as Quran enjoins upon every believer. I do not see the believers into categories like males and females so as to discriminate between them. With reference to your conclusion about me that I am setting my own premise and then bend Quran to suit my premise, I submit Please say where I do that.
- O wives of the Prophet! Stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorant nostalgic past; and keep up Allah's remembrance, and give of the pure that which you possess, and obey Allah and His Prophets. Allah only wishes to purify you, keeping away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House!
The above is the ayat of Allah. I have no premise set in my mind except that I construe that what Allah communicates to us through this ayat is an admonition and good news; and that whatever Allah Enjoins suits one's sense and common sense alike with no contradictions.
Here is how I read Every one shall obey the prophet of Allah; first order goes to our Mothers i.e the wives of the prophets. As believers that we are we are given a special reward of discerning ability. And we are not like the males and females of rejecting community; they are the disbelieving society of males and females; and due to their rejection Allah has sealed their hearts as a result of which they do not differentiate between good and bad; nor do they understand anything good.
Stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorant nostalgic past stay means to stay our strife from the smite of criminal society and supporting oneself from sinking with the power of Allah, the endurance. Be humble and do not become proud of your today's despicable fineries such as your half-baked education and being showy of your so called sophistication apart from your ornaments before your people among who are wicked enemies unto the Prophets and unto you the believing men and women. Allah alone knows best your enemies 445. And Allah is sufficient as your Protector and Helper. Allah is with those who stay humble and enduring. This is how I read and for this I have no premise but what is prevalent about societal environment. These are the first two sentences of the ayat 3333.
Thus Allah says O women folks, during your difficult times against any inimical situations in your precincts stay indoors until normalcy is restored. Then when the normalcy returns and as you go out restrain and refrain from your pride and showy behaviour. Towards this effect the following ayat comes from Allah
3359 O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down their over-garments and throw away your head scarfs and become as normally dressed as the other women folk; this act will be more proper, that they may be overlooked, and thus they will not be spotted by their identity and given trouble during any communal strife; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
If Quran is Guide for all times and for all people of the worlds of yesteryears, today and tomorrow then you aught to get the meaning to suit the time and period of your stay in this world all through. Sister huruf, I request you to say how you have taken as guidance from this ayat's controversial meanings of its first two sentences.
And you say huruf,
Are all women of today so lucky that they all have a prophet as husband?Even the Prophet then was so helpless against the enemies surrounding him and helpless are those who believed with him in his society. So Allah has come to His Prophet's rescue and say to the wives of the prophet thus O wives of the Prophet! Stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorant nostalgic past; and keep up Allah's remembrance, and give of the pure that which you possess, and obey Allah and His Prophets. Allah only wishes to purify you, keeping away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House!
huruf, do not take me wrong; I am not a sunni cult. I am all alone in following Allah alone. Keep up your good exchanges.
16125 Call to the way of your God with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your God best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way.
Peace.