Abba or Allah

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

Abba literally means "father". Many people call upon GOD as Heavenly Father...it would seem to be a beautiful name.

Bar means "son".

Rab has meaning of "great one".

Going off topic a bit here, but who was Barabbas in the Bible really? Son of the father/son of the rabbi/son of the great one?

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

According to The Book it would seem inappropriate to call God 'Father'. But I can admit that it gives the servant-God relationship more warmth. However it might be that the example of those who called themselves sons of God was unrighteous people who were unworthy of being called something close to God. But if you can say God Heavenly Father as a phrase of courtesy and knowing that it is not literally son of God or the Father.

However I would still avoid the usage. I replace Father with Lord in my 'Jesus style prayers' which I include in my Communion. I would never call God 'Father' without His clear permission. I fear and respect Him that much.

I am not sure if this is a misconception and a misrepresentation of the Message in Christianity. I think so and that the words used may carry some secondary meaning or the original meaning was lost in translation.

On the other hand, there were some of the receivers of the Message who without permission begun to call themselves sons of God. The presence of this in the Bible may be the works of these people and blasphemous.

My recommendation is not to call God 'Father', but decide yourselves. Maybe you have His permission.

God bless you

The_Chimp

Hi

I think the so-called "Lords prayer" is in many way a Islamic prayer .
Look at the prayer points

Thy will be done.
Foregive us our sins.
Leed us not into temptations.

All three claims that contradicts with nowadays Christanity.

They are not slaves, but set free from the Law
They can only be forgiven if they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.
God can in a Christian point of view not leed someone into temtation when he only good or love. This is Satan doing this.

So my point is that this prayer in many way is an Islamic and not Christian prayer.
The only thing that is very much unislamic is the operning words Father/ Our father. Or in Aramatic Abba.

Could this Abba be another word for Allah.
I mean could there have been changed something in the original words.

Does anyone know anything conserning this issue.
Please let me know if so.

Peace

The word mostly is "Ab" meaning 'father' in Aramaic - however the word is Akkadian in origin. And it cannot be confused with the word Allah - as that has its separate and very long history.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab_%28Semitic%29

Illah

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilah
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_%28deity%29

Wikipedia is an excellent starting point.

Jafar

Hi

I think the so-called "Lords prayer" is in many way a Islamic prayer .
Look at the prayer points

Thy will be done.
Foregive us our sins.
Leed us not into temptations.

All three claims that contradicts with nowadays Christanity.

They are not slaves, but set free from the Law
They can only be forgiven if they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.
God can in a Christian point of view not leed someone into temtation when he only good or love. This is Satan doing this.

So my point is that this prayer in many way is an Islamic and not Christian prayer.
The only thing that is very much unislamic is the operning words Father/ Our father. Or in Aramatic Abba.

The "Lords Prayer" is NOT an Islamic prayer or "The prayer of a religion / tradition named Islam" due to

It was not authored by Muhammad
It was not authorized to be one by the authority of Islamic cleric. (which can be either Salafis Imam or Shiite Imam which are fighting for the sole authority of the Truest Islam religion as we speak now)

It's however a prayer which shows islam attitude (dienul islam) a.k.a muslim due to
"Let Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"

Could this Abba be another word for Allah.
I mean could there have been changed something in the original words.

God's is being referred by many different name by different human culture, YHVH, Abba, Allah, Tao, Ahura Mazda etc..
I don't see anything 'unislamic' (islam as attitude and not The Religion/Tradition named Islam) on the Lord's Prayer.

Salam / Peace

NielsJacob

Peace The_Chimp

The word mostly is "Ab" meaning 'father' in Aramaic - however the word is Akkadian in origin. And it cannot be confused with the word Allah - as that has its separate and very long history.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab_%28Semitic%29

Still the word is Abba and not Ab.

But because its have a long historie shouldn?t make it untouchabel for confusion or changes, due to somebodys agenda.

Anyway. We know that Jesus in many ways adresses God as The Father in Heaven. So I agree with you that it proberly hasn?t been changed.

Just looking for the posibility of it. Or any study conserning this issue.

Thanks for reply and links.

NielsJacob

Peace Jafar

The "Lords Prayer" is NOT an Islamic prayer or "The prayer of a religion / tradition named Islam" due to

It was not authored by Muhammad
It was not authorized to be one by the authority of Islamic cleric. (which can be either Salafis Imam or Shiite Imam which are fighting for the sole authority of the Truest Islam religion as we speak now)

Don?t really get you?
Are you among this choir or not.
If not Then why do you bring their views.

Anyway you know as well as I do, that there are not such autority here on earth to tell us what Islamic or not.
My view is only my own, and I should only be judged by God.

Still looking for the possibillity that the word could have been changed

Man_of_Faith

Peace NielsJacob,

I think it is an error in translation and perhaps a deliberate error to suit the belief as Jesus as son of God.

"The Lord's Prayer" is a very righteous prayer where you ask God's help and that God's will be done. I usually say these phrases to God in my Communion. If you just change Father into Lord the prayer is fine to use when you want to call upon your Master.

There is nothing called "unislamic" or such. The only unislamic is when you call upon other lords than The Lord and commit evil and immoral deeds.

God bless you

unknownuser

The term "God Father" only exist in Greek New Testament, I never found it in Tanakh/Old Testament.Hope I'm not wrong.

Peace

Man_of_Faith

Peace Earthdom,

You are right. God as Father does not occur even once in the Old Testament. However, the word son of man occurs (perhaps carries the same meaning as Children of Adam), but not son of God as far as I recall. I have read the Bible numerous times with several different translations.

I have thought that the Gospels are mistranslated from some original source which was not Ancient Greek. It is also clear that the current translations seem to contradict itself on the verses giving Jesus a status as divinity while some other seem to regard Jesus as a simple servant of God following His will although in a very reverent and pious way.

Either mistranslation or words inputed later if you ask me.

God bless you

unknownuser

I have thought that the Gospels are mistranslated from some original source which was not Ancient Greek.

I also think about that.Jesus came from Semitic blood, then how the Gospels written in Greek, or maybe during Roman Empire the Greek used as lingua franca?

I ever watch a documentary, if the original language of New Testame is in Aramaic, Hebrew and some verses actually didn't exist in original text like term "Father, Son Holy Spirit" and Mark 18-19.

There are also some contradictions between New Testament translations.In a translation this verses exist but in other translations they arent.

I'm curious who is actually Luke and Mark, because looks like they're European not a Semitic.
Matthew and John are the writers of four Gospels who have Semitic origins.

Peace

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

John is one of the better representations of the Message after own observation. But it also contains strange wordings which contradict the context. But I would say like in the previous post that they are either mistranslations or added later.

I always loved reading the Gospel but the verses about son made me confused since I did not accept the "holy trinity". Now I see that as something not belonging to the original writings but somehow "slipped in" for some reason. The white guy in a funny hat and his goons are probably the cause of that, perhaps in the early 100s, like the year 325 AD.

God bless you

GODsubmitter

Abba or Father tries to convey the notion that God is creator of All us mankind, and not just someone, or some group, trying to convey universality of one SOURCE of it all, be it mankind or the rest.

Peace

The_Chimp

Peace The_Chimp

Still the word is Abba and not Ab.

But because its have a long historie shouldn?t make it untouchabel for confusion or changes, due to somebodys agenda.

Anyway. We know that Jesus in many ways adresses God as The Father in Heaven. So I agree with you that it proberly hasn?t been changed.

Just looking for the posibility of it. Or any study conserning this issue.

Thanks for reply and links.

Ab and Abba are same words . . . it is mostly Ab - that is most usages of the word are Ab as that is the base/root word. So the Lord's Prayer, in Aramaic would be Abun - the nominative case.

But because its have a long historie shouldn?t make it untouchabel for confusion or changes, due to somebodys agenda.

Unlikely - the word Allah and its history is long and distinct and so is the word word "Ab" - for different reasons hey are very well researched by scholars of history science and language.

Anyway. We know that Jesus in many ways adresses God as The Father in Heaven. So I agree with you that it proberly hasn?t been changed.

The usage of referring to the almighty as "Father" actually is earlier than Jesus. . . . as Jesus was Hebrew - the jews used the word Avinu to refer to him . . . however they also use "El" and both are distinct.

Here is another compelling read.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_the_Father

Just looking for the posibility of it. Or any study conserning this issue.

No worries. I think you need a specialist language forum.

The_Chimp

Peace NielsJacob,

I think it is an error in translation and perhaps a deliberate error to suit the belief as Jesus as son of God.

"The Lord's Prayer" is a very righteous prayer where you ask God's help and that God's will be done. I usually say these phrases to God in my Communion. If you just change Father into Lord the prayer is fine to use when you want to call upon your Master.

There is nothing called "unislamic" or such. The only unislamic is when you call upon other lords than The Lord and commit evil and immoral deeds.

God bless you

Sorry - but you need evidence . . . and not notions that you make up in your head.

Jesus was a Jew. It is they who referred to the almighty as "Avinu" - not in a literal but metaphorical sense.

Here is a good article

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism

NielsJacob

Peace Man of faith

There is nothing called "unislamic" or such. The only unislamic is when you call upon other lords than The Lord and commit evil and immoral deeds.

You are right I regret that I called something like that.

"The Lord's Prayer" is a very righteous prayer where you ask God's help and that God's will be done. I usually say these phrases to God in my Communion. If you just change Father into Lord the prayer is fine to use when you want to call upon your Master.

Also here I?m on your side. Just its hard for me to change anything in this prayer. Its like its in my venes.
Anyway this prayer was my core belief, before I read the Holy Quran. I couldn?t get like you I think that the Christians had to accept Jesus as God. And part of the Trinity.
My background is somehow Christian, but I have never seen Jesus as God. Maybe because of this "Lords Prayer".

I think it is an error in translation and perhaps a deliberate error to suit the belief as Jesus as son of God.

Many places in NT its like that. But in this case I think we need proof before we can conclude so.

God bless you too

NielsJacob

Peace The _ Chimp

The usage of referring to the almighty as "Father" actually is earlier than Jesus. . . . as Jesus was Hebrew - the jews used the word Avinu to refer to him . . . however they also use "El" and both are distinct.

Here is another compelling read.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_the_Father

In somehow you are right.

But the usage is not so common as you think.

Its only used ones in OT, refering to you own link.
The only place we find it is in Isaiah 6316.

But yes only one is also enough.
Maybe this make Father accepted in prayer since Jesus according to HQ confirmed the OT.
546 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the Torah

But we dont have any authenticating of NT, so we can?t trust it like that.

So maybe we for now could call "The Lords Prayer" for Rightious and Islamic. Only the title gives me creeps (I wont use the word unislamic again)

God bless

Man_of_Faith

Evidence of what, the chimp?

Peace out

The_Chimp

Peace The _ ChimpIn somehow you are right.

But the usage is not so common as you think.

Its only used ones in OT, refering to you own link.
The only place we find it is in Isaiah 6316.

But yes only one is also enough.
Maybe this make Father accepted in prayer since Jesus according to HQ confirmed the OT.
546 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the Torah

But we dont have any authenticating of NT, so we can?t trust it like that.

So maybe we for now could call "The Lords Prayer" for Rightious and Islamic. Only the title gives me creeps (I wont use the word unislamic again)

God bless

I am sorry - but I didn't understand your post that much - the English.

The_Chimp

Evidence of what, the chimp?

Peace out

I think it is an error in translation and perhaps a deliberate error to suit the belief as Jesus as son of God.

Man_of_Faith

Thus I said I think because I do not know. It ought to be some kind of error since Jesus is not the son of God.

Peace out