Story of Solomon , Queen of Saba and Jinns
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Salaam Jandar
Does it make sense that Allah created "human imagination" (1527) BEFORE mankind itself (1526) and then called it 'Iblis'?
It seems that it make sense
7172 And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs (I Think Jandar was there), their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of that
3372 We have offered the trust to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were fearful of it. But man (I Think Jandar was there)accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.
8928 Return to your Lord happy and content (why Jandar have to return if he wasn't there).
4011 They will say Our Lord, You have made us die twice (did Jandar already died once ?), and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this state.
Really, it seems like there were a Jandar Jinn before Human Jandar.
and how is "Human Imagination" made of smokless fire/scorching wind?
1850 And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam." So they all yielded except for Ibliss. He was of the Jinn, he disobeyed the order of his Lord. Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy? Miserable for the transgress
so Ibliss was a malaika + Ibliss is Jinn and thanks to 1527 whe have
Jinn, malaika, chayatins and Ibliss made all from "fire."On the other side, Science would be very interested if you know constitution and location of imagination and from where comes your new ideas.
In fact, i am even interested by chemical formula of fire. Please don't tell me that it is a chemical reaction.
What is fire ? I just to want to sell bottles containing fire.I don't see how your interpretation fits with the rest of the Quran about the Djinn.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604954.0
In turn, now, my questions to Muhsin Khan,Pickthall,Yusuf Ali,Shakir and Dr. Ghali and all great scientific of islam.
6130 "O assembly of Jinn and mankind, did not messengers come to you from among you and tell to you My revelations......
Why Jinns Have to use our Quran ? Wouldn't be better if their messengers brought them a Quran from fire ? Sure they will better understand.
Who is adam of fire ? is there an abraham from fire ? A Jesus of fire ?6112 And as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet ? mankind and Jinn devils ? to inspire each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.
What is human Chaytan if chaytan is from fire ?
Is there a relation between fire (Jinn material) and Fire (Jehennem Material) ?
How to burn fire with fire ? Is there a special fire for fire ?1145 ?Who whispers into the chests of the people.?
1146 ?From the Jinn and the people.?
really, these story of fire are very complicated. Who whipers in Chest of Jinns and why chaytan has to whisper to them throught ours Chests ?726 ?And there were men from among mankind who used to seek help from the men among the Jinn, but they only helped increase them in sin.?.
Please, if i want to seek help from a Jinn, how can i do ?
I tried to contact them, i never succeded. Even Muslims Jinn of Fire don't want to respond !How they pray? Is there a Bukhari of Fire ? How is their Kaaba of fire ? Have they knees for soujoud ? Have they Kaab in the feet for oudhou ? Do they eat an drink ? How is a sandwich of fire ? is there coffee from fire ? did they fast ? how and where they make Hajj ? What about tarawihs ? Did they have cars of fire or did they use camel or donkeys of fire ? Have they more scientific knowledge than us ? Why God tell them stories about our prophets and never tell us about stories of their prophets ? is there Jinn jews ? Zoraosaters Jinns ? Bouddhist Jinns ? Have they democraty ? Did they play soccer ?
Did they have Jinns scientists ? Did their scientists just copy our science ? How is their music ? Have they internet ? can they partcipate on our forum ?
And finally
how Quran can claim to be complete if he doesn't respond to all these questions ?
how Quran can claim to be complete for Jinns if he doesn't tell to Jinns anything about their history, science, messengers.... ?I accept any coherent explanation. Even false. Just coherent.
If my questions seems stupid, perhaps it is not the fault of my questions ???
Cannot be more comprehensivePeace
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Salaam Jandar
It seems that it make sense
7172 And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs (I Think Jandar was there), their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of that
3372 We have offered the trust to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were fearful of it. But man (I Think Jandar was there)accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.
8928 Return to your Lord happy and content (why Jandar have to return if he wasn't there).
4011 They will say Our Lord, You have made us die twice (did Jandar already died once ?), and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this state.
Really, it seems like there were a Jandar Jinn before Human Jandar.
1850 And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam." So they all yielded except for Ibliss. He was of the Jinn, he disobeyed the order of his Lord. Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy? Miserable for the transgress
so Ibliss was a malaika + Ibliss is Jinn and thanks to 1527 whe have
Jinn, malaika, chayatins and Ibliss made all from "fire."On the other side, Science would be very interested if you know constitution and location of imagination and from where comes your new ideas.
In fact, i am even interested by chemical formula of fire. Please don't tell me that it is a chemical reaction.
What is fire ? I just to want to sell bottles containing fire.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604954.0In turn, now, my questions to Muhsin Khan,Pickthall,Yusuf Ali,Shakir and Dr. Ghali and all great scientific of islam.
6130 "O assembly of Jinn and mankind, did not messengers come to you from among you and tell to you My revelations......
Why Jinns Have to use our Quran ? Wouldn't be better if their messengers brought them a Quran from fire ? Sure they will better understand.
Who is adam of fire ? is there an abraham from fire ? A Jesus of fire ?6112 And as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet ? mankind and Jinn devils ? to inspire each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.
What is human Chaytan if chaytan is from fire ?
Is there a relation between fire (Jinn material) and Fire (Jehennem Material) ?
How to burn fire with fire ? Is there a special fire for fire ?1145 ?Who whispers into the chests of the people.?
1146 ?From the Jinn and the people.?
really, these story of fire are very complicated. Who whipers in Chest of Jinns and why chaytan has to whisper to them throught ours Chests ?726 ?And there were men from among mankind who used to seek help from the men among the Jinn, but they only helped increase them in sin.?.
Please, if i want to seek help from a Jinn, how can i do ?
I tried to contact them, i never succeded. Even Muslims Jinn of Fire don't want to respond !How they pray? Is there a Bukhari of Fire ? How is their Kaaba of fire ? Have they knees for soujoud ? Have they Kaab in the feet for oudhou ? Do they eat an drink ? How is a sandwich of fire ? is there coffee from fire ? did they fast ? how and where they make Hajj ? What about tarawihs ? Did they have cars of fire or did they use camel or donkeys of fire ? Have they more scientific knowledge than us ? Why God tell them stories about our prophets and never tell us about stories of their prophets ? is there Jinn jews ? Zoraosaters Jinns ? Bouddhist Jinns ? Have they democraty ? Did they play soccer ?
Did they have Jinns scientists ? Did their scientists just copy our science ? How is their music ? Have they internet ? can they partcipate on our forum ?
And finally
how Quran can claim to be complete if he doesn't respond to all these questions ?
how Quran can claim to be complete for Jinns if he doesn't tell to Jinns anything about their history, science, messengers.... ?I accept any coherent explanation. Even false. Just coherent.
If my questions seems stupid, perhaps it is not the fault of my questions ???
Cannot be more comprehensivePeace
You answered nothing but instead hurled insults?!
Oh I see, you are pushing a no djinn agenda and I happened to get in the way.
sun -
Hi Noshirk,
I'm really interested by the story of Solomon explained by you and dukhani (i'm french), but something is not clear to me about the word Tayr. How to explain a word as it can have several meanings in even the Koran ?
For exemple, in the verse "349" and "1679", the word Tayr hardly take another direction as bird.
I understood with the precedent articles that Koran never uses the same word to differents meanings. What do you tink about ?
Peace -
Hi Noshirk,
I'm really interested by the story of Solomon explained by you and dukhani (i'm french), but something is not clear to me about the word Tayr. How to explain a word as it can have several meanings in even the Koran ?
For exemple, in the verse "349" and "1679", the word Tayr hardly take another direction as bird.
I understood with the precedent articles that Koran never uses the same word to differents meanings. What do you tink about ?
PeaceSalaam Achoura Risbo
i think that words can have different meanings in quran. However allowed meanings are generally authorized by quran himself by the different uses God used them.
Use of words can help to make analogies. From example, our spirit is in someway a flying entity that can fly far away from its body prison.1713 And We have attached to the neck of every man his Tayrouhou, and We bring forth for him a record on the Day of Resurrection which he will find on display.
7131 When any good came to them, they said ?This is ours,? and when any bad afflicted them, they blamed it on Moses and those with him. Their ta'irouhom is with God, but most of them do not know.these two verse allows the understand of tayr = spirit as the two verses you mentionned allows the bird sense.
"The flying entity who swims (yasbahou) by the winds of allah" is a double sens sentence.
who has more freedom than a bird in the sky ?
who has more freedom than a spirit in the sky of thoughts?Quran is full of double meanings and different levels of understandings.
638 And there is not a creature on the earth, nor a bird that flies with its wings, except they belong to nations like you belong. We did not leave anything out of the "book"; then to their Lord they will be gathered.
i will let your "bird" fly alone on this verse.
Peace
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Salaam Noshirk,
Thank you for your answer, I agree with the metaphorical use and double sense of certain words.
I noticed we find the word "clay" in some verses that contain the word tayr
349 (with 5-110) and 1053.The fact that "clay" is the main organic component which we were created is interesting, because the verses 349 and 5110 refer to Issa's ability to create a clay bird and blow the inside to make it alive, is it possible that Allah has given its creative power to a Nabi? It seems strange to me.
It would be interesting to take the explanation of each verse containing the word "tayr" or "tair" as 5621, where it is a question of taste meat bird in paradise, or 3819 & 3410 who speak of God who subjected the mountains and the birds singing in the company of David.
Peace
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Salaam Noshirk,
Thank you for your answer, I agree with the metaphorical use and double sense of certain words.
I noticed we find the word "clay" in some verses that contain the word tayr
349 (with 5-110) and 1053.The fact that "clay" is the main organic component which we were created is interesting, because the verses 349 and 5110 refer to Issa's ability to create a clay bird and blow the inside to make it alive, is it possible that Allah has given its creative power to a Nabi? It seems strange to me.
It would be interesting to take the explanation of each verse containing the word "tayr" or "tair" as 5621, where it is a question of taste meat bird in paradise, or 3819 & 3410 who speak of God who subjected the mountains and the birds singing in the company of David.
Peace
salaam Achoura
do you know that jabal can mean other thing than mountain?
root jabal refer to what is grouped in highness. it can be applied to human. perhaps to "notables". use for "calife" seems to be appliable.here we can found ( baheth.info)
( ة
. .
.
..
. .
.36-62 is quran validation of this use.
seems like there is other readings for your verses ???Peace
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Salam,
Thanks Noshirk for your answer, I didn't know that jabal can also refer to humans, it's really interesting, specially with the verse 2260 which refers to separate a bird (knowledge?) in four and spread it out over several mountains (high or notable people?) and they again become one...
What do you think about the clay ?I did not understand what verses have another reading, but do you know if there is already a topic about this?
Peace
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Salam,
Thanks Noshirk for your answer, I didn't know that jabal can also refer to humans, it's really interesting, specially with the verse 2260 which refers to separate a bird (knowledge?) in four and spread it out over several mountains (high or notable people?) and they again become one...
What do you think about the clay ?I did not understand what verses have another reading, but do you know if there is already a topic about this?
Peace
thank you also. Il never noticed before the parabolic meaning of 2260
Concerning the clay, i can only give you what i think.
According to big bang theory, atoms are a creation.
So neither God nor angels are made of "atoms".
world nar (fire!) is jinn and angel material.i think that clay mean all what is created from atoms and originated from big bang (scientifically, it seems that all other understandings leads actually to a quranic error).
clay is to oppose to nar. Since i think that jinn mean our imagination, then nar is the materiel of our imagination and spirit.peace
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Salaam all.
I came across these articles that offer alternative interpretations on the story of Solomon and the Queen of Sheba.
The first article discusses the reason Solomon sent his warning letter
When The Military Power Is Used To Restore Freedom
by El Mehdi Haddou
(page 142)(PDF warning!)
http//www.deenresearchcenter.com/LinkClick.aspx?link=CRITICAL+THINKERS+for+ISLAMIC+REFORM+2.pdf&tabid=36&mid=577
The second article proposes an alternative take on the whole story.
https//quranistvoices.wordpress.com/2011/04/27/sulaiman-and-the-queen-part-i/
https//quranistvoices.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/sulaiman-and-the-queen-part-ii/Please read them all and tell me what you think. Thank you.
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Peace with you all, sun
maybe this one would be a help for the formula of fire
There is not a formula for each kind of fire but each combustion can be represented chemically. For example, when carbon (C) burns it combines with oxygen (O). carbon (C) and oxygen gas (O) results in incomplete combustion of carbon monoxide (CO) and a complete combustion of carbon dioxide (CO ?). The same is a beautiful example with water. When hydrogen (H) thus burns, means connects with oxygen (O), the result is water (H ? O).
If there is a little Oxygen in the blood ( transport to the brain ) so more CO will be "poured out" from brain cells. But there are also other substances which are sent out from the brain cells (or other cells in the human body), so called toxic waste.
Also by negative thoughts the brain cells will absorb less oxygen. As example when someone fears from examen and so he/she cannot concentrate enough on the tasks. As far as you know, fear generally produces stress.
We can think clearer if there is enough Oxygen in the blood .... also we should do more sportGod knows the best.