Muslim and non Muslim ?
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Peace be upon you Marie,
So, if someone asks you, are you Muslim? What will you reply? muslim or submitter or ..?
I will reply with the following CORRECTION to thier question. I will tell the questioner that thier question does not make sense. I will tell them that the proper question is "DO YOU peacefully submit" (320), not "ARE YOU a peaceful submitter".
If someone asks me the proper question "do you peacefully submit"? My answer SHOULD BE yes, unless I am doing something wrong when they ask. But thier asking should cause me to correct my actions.
I prefer peaceful than "Muslim" in English or "musulman" in French
I also see the wisdom iin "peaceful" over "submitter", but having trouble cutting the traditional understanding.
A peaceful one doesn't mean necessarily one who submits ....but one who submits....is a peaceful one.
I am not disagreeing yet, but what are some examples of a peaceful person who has not submitted?
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Doing good deed helps us to stay in a peaceful stateYou are right
Agreed.
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Peace be upon you Kyle,
Thanks for your help.
I will tell them that the proper question is "DO YOU peacefully submit" (320), not "ARE YOU a peaceful submitter".
Good point.
Maybe something lacks to this sentence because one can peacefully submit to other gods than the one god. -
Peace be upon you Kyle,
Thanks for your help.
I will tell them that the proper question is "DO YOU peacefully submit" (320), not "ARE YOU a peaceful submitter".
Good point.
Maybe something lacks to this sentence because one can peacefully submit to other gods than the one god.Peace marie, idolfree1, and all
Can one really find peace in serving any other god than the creator? I don't think so, there will always be some pride, falsehood and corruption attached to it.
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Peace Mohamed,
Can one really find peace in serving any other god than the creator? I don't think so, there will always be some pride, falsehood and corruption attached to it.
You are right. If you or other members of this forum say that he/she is peacefully submit/submitted, I can understand that he/she is peacefully submit/submitted to the one god. But for a novice, this sentence could be appear incomplete...
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Peace be upon you Marie and Someone,
Yes, I agree , Marie< that just one sentence "do you peacefully submit" leaves on with more questions, but thats JUST the way the God planned it. Questions are what lead us to the proper understandings. The logical question is "peacefully submit to who/what?" and the journey begins.
The God always asks us questions "And what will explain to you what the fire is?" etc.
LAstly, regarding the Title "peaceable", I think we error when we try to look for a noun/title. We should never become "nouns", stuck. We should be fluid like water, a verb. We should be peaceful, not peaceable. We should be submissive to the God, not submitter.
It is the titles that get us into trouble.
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Peace Mohamed, Kyle,
What about peaceable? I think it's more adequate for "muslim" than peaceful.
I think peaceable and peaceful are mutually linked.
We should be submissive to the God, not submitter.
In arabic, we say "we are muslimeen" if we replace muslimeen by submissive, the sentence ramains incomplte for who has no idea about the god system.
It is the titles that get us into trouble.
I'm looking for how to translate the word muslim and not especially a noun. muslim is rich in meaning and to be submissive is only one among several meanings.
Another view, to be muslim = to accept the god system, to enter in the god system.
What do you think?
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Peace be upon you Sister Marie,
I'm looking for how to translate the word muslim and not especially a noun. muslim is rich in meaning and to be submissive is only one among several meanings.
Then my answer would be "peacefully submissive".
Yes, it leaves one with a question that they need to search and find the answer to. Just like when one says "maintain the process and bring forth purification" leaves the not knowng with the question of "what process"?
Or when the God says the only accpetable system is "islam", it leaves one with a question that must be answered.
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Peace all,
Peaceful is maybe a wrong translation. Peaceable seems appropriate for translating because a "muslim" can go on war for self-defense, a "muslim" can and should have weapons to defend himself (and eventually others).
Thus a "muslim" is one disposed to peace, it's his first choice, but in some inevitable cases, he has to take his weapons to fight.
Translating "muslim" as peaceful would be, in my opinion, a little hypocritical, since peaceful is 100% peace which, I think, is not achieveable in this life.
When you meet someone, from whatever background he may be, just tell him that you are a "peaceable" person, it's not a title, it's your description. If he has good intentions, he will try to find peaceful ways to discuss the differences in beliefs. If not, atleast you would know and take predispositions accordinly.
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Peace be upon you Someone,
Peaceful is maybe a wrong translation. Peaceable seems appropriate for translating because a "muslim" can go on war for self-defense, a "muslim" can and should have weapons to defend himself (and eventually others).
Yes, but the "fight" is only to maintain the PEACE, and if the opponent calls for PEACE, we must stop fighting. Even in learning martial arts, one is told that PEACE is KEY.
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Peace brother Kyle,
Another view, to be muslim = to accept the god system, to enter in the god system.
Or when the God says the only accpetable system is "islam", it leaves one with a question that must be answered.
I think we are not far from the answer twisted
A. Shabir
2208 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! Come, all of you, into submission to Him. Enter the System of Islam fully and collectively. Do not follow the footsteps of the Satan, your rebellious desire. Selfish desire that rebels against the Divine Values is your most ardent enemy. (Desire or emotion leads our actions while the intellect rationalizes them. Only the Divine Values given in the Qur?an can empower our higher control of the intellect).319 Indeed the System of Life approved by Allah is Al-Islam (Submission to His Will). The people of the Scripture differ for self-interest and envy, after the Knowledge has come to them. One who rejects Allah's Revelations will find that His Law of Requital is swift in reckoning.
385 Whoever seeks as system other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter. (This is because the religion, DEEN of the entire Universe is Islam i.e. submission to the will of God).
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Peace be upon you Marie,
Exactly! Good job D
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peace be upon you all,
literal
muslim = one who complies/conforms/submits/surrendersTo what? to what we have been naturally inclined/programed upon
Some science is looking into this possibility
recent Time Magazine article
The God Gene How Faith is Hardwired into our GenesFor simplicity reasons, an acceptable English translation would be
monotheist
Wakas
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Peace be upon you Wakas,
I understadn you usage of monotheist, but I feel that takes away too much of the intended meaning. Peace should definately be a part of the meaning, I do not get that from "monotheist". Also, I personally have another word as monothesist that is related to Abraham, I cannot recall the verse right now.
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Peace,
A peaceable person is a person disposed to peace. In other words, this person has imposed on his/her self the peace. This person has submited to the peace, and the peace is one of the attributes of the god.
Thus, I submit to the lord of the skies and the earth, and I'm of the peaceables.
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Peace be upon you,
What about "peaceful"?
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Peace be upon you Someone,
The reality is that this life is a test, and by default cannot be peaceful
But we are talking about a description for people who submit to the God's system, we are not loking for a description of Life.
. Claiming to be peaceful is escaping/rejecting the reality. In this life, we have to work to obtain the peace and maintain it.
Yes, our essential nature is PEACE because we come from THE PEACE(God) and we return to The PEACE(God). And the God is the REALITY, therefore Peace is a reality. It is NON-PEACE that is the PERVERSION from reality.
So peaceful describes your current actions, peaceABLE seems to indicate you are ABLE to manifest peace, but we need more than the ability, we need to DO IT, we need to be peaceful, not peace-able.
What are your thoughts respected brother?
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Peace upon you brother kyle, all
Peaceable is the first state or step or level in the path of the god. There are many levels depending on eachone's awarness of the creator.
Furthermore, asking or commanding someone to be peaceful is depriving him of his freedom and right to defend himself, and if peaceful is taken to the extrem, it can mean to remain silent, montionless, which is the case of people under tyrants or in prisons.
These are some thoughts, and the god surely is more knowlegeable.
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Brothers,
A muslim is, one who at the time of death, as malayikas capture his mind and soul, is to be greeted with "Salamun Alaikkum - May Peace Be Upon You". Muslim is one who is sure to be blessed on the Day when he departs his mind to travel into the soul to enter the "garden of peace" as a reward for his good deeds with belief in his Lord and in the hereafter.
May Allah Bless All.
