Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)

KDC501

279 Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what God has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains.

Verse 279 shows that some of the old scripture have indeed been tampered with. This can be easily shown by the number of CONTRADICTIONS that can be found in the Bible.

http//www.answering-christianity.com/101_bible_contradictions.htm

These contradiction show that the Bible has been tampered with and should not be taken too seriously since there is no way of knowing where and what episodes could be real and what are fabricated.

Yes in the Quran it does say that the scriptures of old were divine

544 We have sent down the Torah, containing guidance and light. Ruling in accordance with it were the Jewish prophets, as well as the rabbis and the priests, as dictated to them in God's scripture, and as witnessed by them. Therefore, do not reverence human beings; you shall reverence Me instead. And do not trade away My revelations for a cheap price. Those who do not rule in accordance with God's revelations are the disbelievers.

546 Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

547 The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with God's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with God's revelations are the wicked.

548 Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with God's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had God willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To God is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.

33 He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel
God explains to us that every time a new scripture got revealed, the majority of people who claimed to be believers plunged deeper into transgression and disbelief.

BUT the problem lies in what is needs to be taken OUT of the scriptures and what needs to be rejected. It is naive to believe that God is saying everything in the old scriptures are to be used. This cannot be because of the number of contradictions that lie in the Bible and the number of false teachings.

Now the issue of the Book of Enoch.

I have read some passages from the Book of Enoch and I have found them to be very fantastic tales with angels mating with women and making gaints also things about Enoch's visions etc. This I will NOT believe. Also the Book of Enoch was written many years after the Torah o_O How then can anyone take this book seriously???

Also the Quran did NOT make mention of the Book of Enoch

1956 And recall in the Scripture Enoch; he was a man of truth, a prophet.

The verse never mentioned anything about THE Book of Enoch. It merely states that Enoch is mentioned in the old scriptures this does not necessarily mean that scripture is THE Book of Enoch. It could also mean the Book of Genesis in which Enoch was also mentioned.

THERE IS NO MENTION IN THE QURAN OF "THE BOOK OF ENOCH" but simply a refrence to the fact that Enoch was in the old scriptures.

I, being a christian in the past know more about the Book of Revelations than perhaps most of the people here on this forum. The Book of Revelations was written by John one of the alleged disciples of Jesus NOT JOHN THE BAPTIST (Son of Zacharia in the Quran) . This would be stupid to believe since it is commonly known in history that John the Baptist(Son of Zacharia in the Quran) died before Jesus was put to death. So how then can John the Baptist (Son of Zacharia in the Quran) create a book with mentioning Christ in it??

The Book of Revelation is simply a book made by christian fanatics to make sense of some of the prophecies that Jesus didn't fullfil.
Jesus may have been A messiah but he was not THE Messiah that the Jews wanted. The Jews were looking for a Messiah that would be a military leader, and have power on earth. Jesus did not fulfill any of these prophecies. So the Christians that idolize Jesus created a book to make sense of some of the prophecies from even the old scriptures.

Another thing that should be noted is that The Book of Revelations when it was written could have been used as a means of comfort. The christians during that time expected the world to end VERY SOON and Jesus to come back and fulfill his role as the Messiah of the old scriptures.
The book made reference to episodes that occured during the time when Jesus was LONG dead and Nero was the new Emperor of Rome. The number 666 (mentioned in The Book Of Revelations) according to most christian scholars is a code message for Nero Caesar http//www.ecclesia.org/truth/beast.html
What should also be noted is that this book according to biblical scholars surfaced in public during the time when Nero Caesar was Emperor!!! John (Son of Zacharia Also known as John the BAPTIST) died BEFORE Jesus during the time when Emperor Tiberius was ruler of Rome!! This LOOOONG before Nero sat on the throne!!!

The Book of Revelations cannot be a used as reading or taken seriously. Also the Quran said that Gospels have truth in them. The Book of Revelation is NOT A GOSPEL. And even if RK used this as a reference that does mean he was correct. RK was still LEARNING the Quran and his deen. Many of the things he said could have been wrong! Don't blindly follow things you have no knowledge of.

Peace,

Kevin

Jafar

The word Qarn means horn as well as generation. If we take the latter meaning, Zul Qarnain (peace be upon him) means the one who possesses two horns. To comprehend the identity of the Prophet Zul Qarnain (peace be upon him) we must understand the context of the verses of Surah al Kahf and the reason for their revelation. The Jewish rabbis specifically asked the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) about Zul-Qarnain and to explain his story as proof of his prophethood. Therefore, bearing this context in mind we see that Zul Qarnain is someone whom the Jewish rabbis learned in the scriptures are aware of.

Therefore, in conjunction with the Vision of Daniel as narrated in the old testament, I believe that Zul Qarnain was a great Persian king and conqueror who may be identified with Cyrus the Great. In the vision of Daniel (Daniel chapter 8 ), he saw a two-horned ram which was marching in three directions (west, north and south). The Quran also mentions three different expeditions of Zul Qarnain in three different directions.

Correction, Dzul-Qarnayn (The one with two horn) was never being stated as a 'prophet'.

And you're correct on the rest of your description. The background might goes like this

Muhammad claim that 'his words' was actually the word of an angel named Gabriel.
The Jewish rabbis would like to see some confirmation that it was actually "Gabriel"
He seek out where Gabriel are being mentioned on his scripture and it appears on the book Daniel.
He test it out to see whether Muhammad can answer who is the "Ram with two horn" as mentioned in Daniel.

The book of Daniel contain a prophecy about the rising of (back then) future empire symbolized by the Two horn ram which shall be destroyed by one horn goat and then the horn of the goat shall be broken to 4 pieces. (Daniel
Two horn ram (Dzul-Qarnayn) = Persian Empire / Cyrus
One horn goat = Macedonian Empire / Alexander
Broken to 4 pieces = Macedonian Empire broken to 4 smaller kingdom after the death of Alexander

During the time of Quran those prophecies has already been fulfilled. and the deed of Cyrus was highly regarded by the Jews up until today. In the book of Isaiah he was mentioned as a "Christ" (Hebrew Messiach)
Cyrus Persian Kingdom was among the earliest kingdom in the recorded history who has no "official state religion" a.k.a "Secularism".

More on the person here
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great

And here's on the "Wall Of Dzul-Qarnayn".
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_Gorgan

KDC501

Correction, Dzul-Qarnayn (The one with two horn) was never being stated as a 'prophet'.

And you're correct on the rest of your description. The background might goes like this

Muhammad claim that 'his words' was actually the word of an angel named Gabriel.
The Jewish rabbis would like to see some confirmation that it was actually "Gabriel"
He seek out where Gabriel are being mentioned on his scripture and it appears on the book Daniel.
He test it out to see whether Muhammad can answer who is the "Ram with two horn" as mentioned in Daniel.

The book of Daniel contain a prophecy about the rising of (back then) future empire symbolized by the Two horn ram which shall be destroyed by one horn goat and then the horn of the goat shall be broken to 4 pieces. (Daniel
Two horn ram (Dzul-Qarnayn) = Persian Empire / Cyrus
One horn goat = Macedonian Empire / Alexander
Broken to 4 pieces = Macedonian Empire broken to 4 smaller kingdom after the death of Alexander

During the time of Quran those prophecies has already been fulfilled. and the deed of Cyrus was highly regarded by the Jews up until today. In the book of Isaiah he was mentioned as a "Christ" (Hebrew Messiach)
Cyrus Persian Kingdom was among the earliest kingdom in the recorded history who has no "official state religion" a.k.a "Secularism".

More on the person here
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great

And here's on the "Wall Of Dzul-Qarnayn".
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_Gorgan

Cyrus the great was a pagan. It is IMPOSSIBLE for him to be "The Two Horned One".
From the Quran we see that the Two horned One had a close relationship with God. Cyrus was a PAGAN. He neither Alexander the Great fit the persona of the 'Two Horned One'.

Again the "Two Horned One" is Messiah Ben Joseph. The term "Two Horned One" is a AN OLD TERM that the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL know about.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

I would not be so sure that Cyrus the Great was a Pagan.

God bless you

KDC501

Peace,

I would not be so sure that Cyrus the Great was a Pagan.

God bless you

Ok I stand corrected. MAYBE he was a pagan and MAYBE he wasn't a pagan. I don't have much knowledge in Zoroastrian religion so I don't know. One thing I do know is that he was indeed a great king and he allowed people to follow there own religion. He was the responsible for the FIRST DOCUMENTED human rights charter that

" I ordered that no one is permitted to abuse anybody or to damage the cities. I ordered that no house should be damaged and no one?s property should be violated and ransacked. I ordered that everybody should keep to his/her belief system and be free to worship his/her own God. I ordered that all the people should be free in their thoughts, choosing the place of their residence and no one should violate the rights of others."

Now here is the problem. The term "Two horned One" comes from Deuteronomy Chapter 33 This is again for the 100th time a JEWISH TERM FOR MESSIAH BEN JOSEPH. This is one of the many prophecies in the Bible that prophesied about "The Two Horned One"

Messiah Ben Joseph is the messiah that comes from the tribe of Joseph. The term "Two Horned One" comes from Deuteronomy Chapter 33 in the Bible in which Moses before his death told the "future of the tribes of Israel "

In this chapter Moses says

"13 About Joseph he said

?May the Lord bless his land
with the precious dew from heaven above
and with the deep waters that lie below;
14 with the best the sun brings forth
and the finest the moon can yield;
15 with the choicest gifts of the ancient mountains
and the fruitfulness of the everlasting hills;
16 with the best gifts of the earth and its fullness
and the favor of him who dwelt in the burning bush.
Let all these rest on the head of Joseph,
on the brow of the prince among his brothers.
17 In majesty he is like a firstborn bull;
his horns are the horns of a wild ox.
With them he will gore the nations,
even those at the ends of the earth.
Such are the ten thousands of Ephraim;
such are the thousands of Manasseh.?

The key phrase that coined the nickname "Two Horned One" is " In majesty he is like a firstborn bull; his horns are the horns of a wild ox. With them he will gore the nations, even those at the ends of the earth. "

Cyrus could not have fulfilled this prophecy. Why?? Because if this prophecy were to be fulfilled in the PAST (not that it has been fulfilled but if it WERE to take place in the past ) he must have been a Jew or descendant of the Children of Israel.
The person know as Zulqurnain in the Quran is Messiah Ben Joseph that the Jews know about. It is stated that he would be military WORLD leader , rebuild the temple, and be a great politician and even carry out wars "to the ends of the earth" What Jew TODAY would think that he was Messiah Ben Joseph( The Two Horned One) ???

When Muhammad was asked this question he was asked by the Jews. There are NO living Jews today...ZERO that would say Cyrus the Great was "Two Horned One" or Messiah Ben Joseph ( The Zulquarnain) .

Peace,

Kevin

Man_of_Faith

Peace KDC501,

I am not sure who Zul-Qarnain was so I do not say anything. But I do not like to call Cyrus and the early succession of kings for Pagans because they seem in some records to have been among pretty righteous people. Zoroastrianism has an image of Paganism today, but I have done certain research that seems to indicate otherwise.

Historical records may be distorted, but I am relatively certain that there were good kings among bad ones in that era (approximately 600BC-450BC) and that they had Communion with God.

I would admit that the narration in chapter 18 with Zul-Qarnain may suit the portrayal of Cyrus in The Book. But it is nothing I would swear by God about. Unless I know better I would not give any further speculations.

God bless you

The_Chimp

Peace KDC501,

I am not sure who Zul-Qarnain was so I do not say anything. But I do not like to call Cyrus and the early succession of kings for Pagans because they seem in some records to have been among pretty righteous people. Zoroastrianism has an image of Paganism today, but I have done certain research that seems to indicate otherwise.

Historical records may be distorted, but I am relatively certain that there were good kings among bad ones in that era (approximately 600BC-450BC) and that they had Communion with God.

I would admit that the narration in chapter 18 with Zul-Qarnain may suit the portrayal of Cyrus in The Book. But it is nothing I would swear by God about. Unless I know better I would not give any further speculations.

God bless you

Here once more . . . you are at it again

I am not sure who Zul-Qarnain was so I do not say anything. But I do not like to call Cyrus and the early succession of kings for Pagans because they seem in some records to have been among pretty righteous people. Zoroastrianism has an image of Paganism today, but I have done certain research that seems to indicate otherwise.

What research? Where?

Historical records may be distorted, but I am relatively certain that there were good kings among bad ones in that era (approximately 600BC-450BC)

Law of averages!

Man_of_Faith

Peace mr nice,

At what? Many people would agree with that.

That some Persian kings seem to have been better than the average is quite well-known and they seem to have kept a decent respect to various religions and to places that they conquered. And they set free captured Jews at Babylon.

What was it that you argued against anyway? That Zoroastrians are not Pagans?

The_Chimp

Peace mr nice,

At what? Many people would agree with that.

That some Persian kings seem to have been better than the average is quite well-known and they seem to have kept a decent respect to various religions and to places that they conquered. And they set free captured Jews at Babylon.

What was it that you argued against anyway? That Zoroastrians are not Pagans?

I am not arguing for and against anything. . . I have asked you about this "research" . . . which you have claimed . . .

Man_of_Faith

Peace The Chimp,

How do you research on history? Checking historical records, geographical and archeological sources and thinking and trying to assemble every source together.

But it is always difficult knowing the exact Truth and sometimes official history is a blatant lie such as I consider much of hadith of Muhammad if you pardon me saying. That I say by considering it is intertwined with tales that Muhammad let Believers drink camel urine or that he would use a certain number of stones while answering the call of nature.

Even if some hadith might be true would you consider it a reliable source or divine revelation? It is almost worse reliable than the Bible.

I consider God's Message to be safely sought from The Book and particularly not hadith books of Muhammad.

Saying I invent new meanings of words is not true with for example Communion as this is what the word might mean (salah) and then I do not care what "religious leaders" say but I go on by using logic while checking the word's root meaning.

Anyway, I know you will never justly evaluate what I said now either and go on and saying how unintelligent I am in the usual friendly manner.

Jafar

Cyrus the great was a pagan. It is IMPOSSIBLE for him to be "The Two Horned One".
From the Quran we see that the Two horned One had a close relationship with God. Cyrus was a PAGAN. He neither Alexander the Great fit the persona of the 'Two Horned One'.

Again the "Two Horned One" is Messiah Ben Joseph. The term "Two Horned One" is a AN OLD TERM that the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL know about.

What is PAGAN?, explain please...
And why Cyrus is a Pagan?

Cyrus was the first person to be titled "Messiach" by the Jews.
He's definitely a GOYIM, (Goyim = Non-Jew)
So GOYIM = PAGAN ?

"This is what the LORD says to his MOSSIACH, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of
to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut."
(Isaiah 45)

Sweetflower87

Salam everyone,

for anyone who is intrested to read more about this subject please read the following note on facebook in sha Allah.

https//www.facebook.com/notes/nazzie-azarbad/who-is-son-of-mandhul-qarnain-/10152580587273266

si_di

Salam all,

Iwant to bring this old thread into the view,I don't know who dhul qarnain is but i don't think it is cyrus because all Storys in the scripture are about semitic People for a semitic audience,no Story about Hercules or Shaka Zulu.

So i tend to belive that dhul carnain is another title for a Person already mention in the Scripture.And one of the traveler coming into consideration is Salomo,which the scrpture is telling us to have control over the "wind" with which he travels a one Month Journay in one day.

And it is not by accident that places far away from the Levante are called after him.There is a Mountain called "djebel Sulaiman" near the Himalaya ,why would People call places after someone?Only if someone did a great Thing which People drive them to express their admiration for him. "1894 They said "O Two Horned One, Gog and Magog are destroyers of the land, so shall we make a tribute for you that you will make between us and them a barrier?" "

So one hint how to search who dhul qarnain is by looking for honored People by foreign countries like alexander the great and others