95 Theses: 9.5 Theses to Follow the Quran Alone!
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Firstly, there is no religion of Islam . . and therefore, there is no religious law
DYN ( | spelled dn) means
Judgment
e.g. (ywm -dyn) = Judgment DayReligion (see 53; 6159; 319; 373; 2256; etc)
e.g. {6159} "Those who have divided their religion and become sects, ..." (... ا -
DYN ( | spelled dn) means
Judgment
e.g. (ywm -dyn) = Judgment DayReligion (see 53; 6159; 319; 373; 2256; etc)
e.g. {6159} "Those who have divided their religion and become sects, ..." (... اDeen is just an Arabic word for religion. This 'muslims' guy is playing dumb.
But the religion mentioned in the Qur'an is not an organized religion with clerical body etc. -
Peace,
That it means judgement is very interesting for the context of The Book. It means you have God's judgement, or at least try to do as God wants in terms of fair judgement, when you follow Him. This thing about upholding justice is echoed throughout the whole book. It is the problem in a grand majority of cases in The Book and where God destroys entire communities. They had no balance and committed mainly evil.
Could possibly be that deen does not connote to religion at all but to follow God's sound judgement. All pieces of the puzzle comes together now.
The word religion connotes to something you have put your reliance upon, mainly used for spiritual talk. It is not wrong to say the religion of God which means that you have put your Faith in Him. Problem is that it has not particularly any special name. Names are likely exclusively inventions by man. Muslim is a descriptive title. You ought to be able to use English completely in connection to God's religion and thus something similar could be used to describe yourself but it tends to cause people to regard you as a new sect. The Submitters is an example of that even if the English word used is not too bad.
I find it okay to say "I believe in God" and I try my best to stay by His side and I follow His judgement.
God bless you
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Salaam all
Myself see the word "dyn" as system not religion, since the word "religion" refer to manmade creeds.
For @ TheQuranAloneRevolution, we muslims support "believe/iman to Quran only".
Now what is your understanding of iman/believe in that circumstances?
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Religion is "madhab" and "deen" is a way of life . . .
Religion is the opposite of Deen and it is sectarianism . .
On the other hand, Islam is about attitude (for peaceful living, living justly) and attitude does not need religion
It is in every human beings . . regardless of religions etc.
It is funny to imagine God has a religion (faulty of generalization, sectarianism) and opposing the elements of justice in humanity . .
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Among Muslims, the word deen has come to mean religion, and when Muslims say Islam is a religion and a way of life, it is just fancy words to say that their religion is the best one. People cannot really grasp the idea of deen being an attitude. Of course, everyone would agree that deen is also an attitude, but that's often just lip service. The reason is that you cannot have deen being an attitude as well as a dogmatic set of beliefs i.e. a religion. These are two entirely different things. Religion cannot tolerate deen/attitude, because deen won't agree to submitting to the rigid and unnatural tenets of religion. Therefore religious people, who strongly adhere to a religion, cannot accept deen/attitude... because it is too different from religion.
Peace
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Also another point to #3) "Obey the messenger" means "Obey the message"
"Follow the messenger, the gentile prophet (Muhammad), whom they find written in their Torah and Gospel.* He exhorts them to be righteous, enjoins them from evil, allows for them all good food, and prohibits that which is bad, and unloads the burdens and the shackles imposed upon them. Those who believe in him, respect him, support him, and follow the light that came with him are the successful ones." ( Quran 7157) -
Among Muslims, the word deen has come to mean religion, and when Muslims say Islam is a religion and a way of life, it is just fancy words to say that their religion is the best one. People cannot really grasp the idea of deen being an attitude. Of course, everyone would agree that deen is also an attitude, but that's often just lip service. The reason is that you cannot have deen being an attitude as well as a dogmatic set of beliefs i.e. a religion. These are two entirely different things. Religion cannot tolerate deen/attitude, because deen won't agree to submitting to the rigid and unnatural tenets of religion. Therefore religious people, who strongly adhere to a religion, cannot accept deen/attitude... because it is too different from religion.
Peace
Zulf - with respect - you are talking guff...
People cannot really grasp the idea of deen being an attitude.
I have never come across any meaning of the word "attitude" that can make sense here.
I think "Muslims" English is poor - hence he is not able to express exactly what he is thinking. So
Religion cannot tolerate deen/attitude, because deen won't agree to submitting to the rigid and unnatural tenets of religion. Therefore religious people, who strongly adhere to a religion, cannot accept deen/attitude... because it is too different from religion.
This makes no sense.
The basic meaning of the word "Deen" is to "Submit, follow". Why don't you look it up?
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Religion is "madhab" and "deen" is a way of life . . .
Religion is the opposite of Deen and it is sectarianism . .
On the other hand, Islam is about attitude (for peaceful living, living justly) and attitude does not need religion
It is in every human beings . . regardless of religions etc.
It is funny to imagine God has a religion (faulty of generalization, sectarianism) and opposing the elements of justice in humanity . .
Religion is the opposite of Deen and it is sectarianism . .
No it isn't. Religion simply means believing in deity and/or submission to a particular faith. This is about what "deen" means too.
"Muslims" - you tend to throw such tin-pot theories out - when you are challenged you become really nasty. Now - stay calm and back your thinking up - from the Quran by using language and logic.
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Salaam all
Myself see the word "dyn" as system not religion, since the word "religion" refer to manmade creeds.
For @ TheQuranAloneRevolution, we muslims support "believe/iman to Quran only".
Now what is your understanding of iman/believe in that circumstances?
Dear - I often find you tend not to know what you are talking about. Take this
Myself see the word "dyn" as system not religion, since the word "religion" refer to manmade creeds.
In other words - both words are synonymous . . . why don't you use a dictionary and look both words up. It might surprise you! Try laying off making things up.
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I unable to find this statement as "reasoning" . . it is simply a "statement without reason" (opinion).
Statement with reasoning = argument and is still opinion. However the above is factual - based on dictionary.
Religion
"1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."
"2. a particular system of faith and worship."
Also
"Religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence."
Deen - look up dictionary - Lane's Lexicon
Having said the above . . . it is YOUR views that are being challenged - so where is your er . . . "reasoning"?
It is the job of the claimant to provide the evidence for his claims
Burden of Proof - regarding your claim is upon you
http//rationalwiki.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof
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However the above is factual - based on dictionary.
That's what I said . . it is not reason . . and it is factual for religion (madhab), not for way of life (deen).
Religion
"1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."
"2. a particular system of faith and worship."
In Islam . . we don't worship Allah . .
but we serve our whole life for Allah because we are servants.
Say, "Indeed, my prayer, my rites of sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allah , Lord of the worlds. (6.162)
There is no worshipping in Islam.
Further . . one can be a Muslim even with "0" faith in Allah (4914-17) . . it is so since "submission" is about obedience, not about belief.
and . . Muhammad can be a non Muslim, despite he is a True Believer (6121)
This is reasoning . .
and where is your reason and proof to counter the above verses ?
ie. (4914-17) and (6121)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606111.msg344772#msg344772
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606111.msg344801#msg344801
quote . . .
back your thinking up - from the Quran by using language and logic.
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Some comparison between religion and deen . . .
| | | Religion (Madhab) | | Way of life (Deen)
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| 1 | | Religion is merely some sort of subjective experience and is concerned only with the so-called private relationship between God and man. | 1 | Deen is an objective reality and a system of collective life.
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| 2 | | Every follower of a Religion is satisfied that he has established a communion with the Almighty, and the objective of each individual is his own salvation. | 2 | The aim of deen on the other hand is the welfare and progress of all mankind, and the character and constitution of a society indicates whether or not it is founded upon the Divine Law.
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| 3 | | Religion does not afford us any objective. criterion by which we could determine whether or not our actions are producing the desired results. | 3 | In a social order governed by Deen, the development of a collective and harmonious life correctly indicates whether or not the people are pursuing the right course.
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| 4 | | Religion is hostile to scientific investigation and is an adversary of reason, so that it could flourish unhampered with the aid of a blind faith. | 4 | Deen helps in the development of human reason and knowledge, allows full freedom to accept or reject on the basis of reason and arguments, and encourages investigation and discovery of all the natural phenomena to illumine the path of human life and its advancement in the light of the Permanent Values.
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| 5 | | Religion follows the susceptibilities and prejudices of men and pampers them. | 5 | Deen seeks to lead men to a path of life that is in harmony with the realities of life.
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| 6 | | In every age, therefore, Religion sets up new idols and mumbo-jumbos in order to keep the people's attention away from the real problems of life. | 6 | But deen is rational and radical it breaks all idols, old and new, and is never variable in its principles.
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| 7 | | Religion induces a perpetual sense of fear in the minds of men and seeks to frighten them into conformity; | 7 | While deen treats fear as a form of polytheism and seeks to make men courageous, daring and self-reliant.
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| 8 | | Religion prompts men to bow before every seat of authority and prestige, religious as well as temporal. | 8 | Deen encourages man to walk about with his head erect, and attain self-confidence.
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| 9 | | Religion induces man to flee from struggle of life. | 9 | But deen calls upon him to face the realities of life squarely, whatever the hazards.
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| 10 | | Religion treats the world of matter with contempt and calls upon man to renounce it. It promises paradise only in the Hereafter as a reward for the renunciation of the material world. | 10 | Deen, on the other hand, enjoins the conquest of matter and leads man to immeasurable heights of attainment. It exhorts him to seek well-being and happiness in this world as well as felicity in the life Hereafter.
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| 11 | | Religion encourages belief in fatalism, and this tends to dissuade man from active life and self-development. | 11 | Deen gives man power to challenge fate, and provides energy for a life of activity and self-development.
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| 12 | | Religion seeks to comfort the weak, the helpless and the oppressed with the belief that the affairs of this world are governed by the Will of God and that its acceptance and resignation helps to endear them to God. This sort of teaching naturally tends to morbidity, and emboldens their religious leaders who profess to interpret the Will of God, so that they indulge in their misdeeds with perfect impunity and persuade the adherents to a complete and quiet submission. | 12 | Deen, on the other hand, raises the banner of revolt against all forms of tyranny and exploitation. It calls upon the weak and the oppressed to follow the Divine Laws and thereby seek to establish a social order in which all tyrants and oppressors will be forced to accept the dictates of right and justice. In this social order, there is no place for dictators, capitalists or priests. They are all enemies of Deen.
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| 13 | | Religion enjoins religious meditation in the name of worship and thus induces self-deception. | 13 | Deen exhorts men to assert themselves and struggle perpetually for the establishment of the Divine Social Order, and its betterment when attained. Worship in deen really means obedience to the Laws of God.
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| 14 | | Religion frowns and sneers at all things of art and beauty. | 14 | Deen defies those who forbid the enjoyment of the good and beautiful things of life which God has created for the enjoyment of man.
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| 15 | | Religion denounces everything new and declares all innovation as sin. | 15 | Deen holds that the needs and demands of human life keep changing with the change in the conditions of life; change and innovation are, therefore, demanded by life itself. Only the Divine Laws are immutable.
Islam means saying "Yes" to life; while the response of religion is "No"!
http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/ICR/ICR_20.htm
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That's what I said . . it is not reason . . and it is factual for religion (madhab), not for way of life (deen).
So why bother pointing it out? It doesn't have to be "reason" every time. It is there simply challenging you. And as I pointed out - it is you who need to provide reason/evidence for your claims.
In Islam . . we don't worship Allah . .
Yes we do. This is the "basics". Of course we worship Allah.
ut we serve our whole life for Allah because we are servants.
Say, "Indeed, my prayer, my rites of sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allah , Lord of the worlds. (6.162)
There is no worshipping in Islam.
Worship
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the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.
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religious rites or ceremonies, constituting a formal expression of reverence for a deity.
Of course there is "worship" in Islam. Looking you even quoted the perfect verse - which proves there is worship in Islam.
What else do you think worship means?
Further . . one can be a Muslim even with "0" faith in Allah
it is so since "submission" is about obedience, not about belief.
You only "submit" if you have belief. Your proposition is simply ridiculous.
Faith "strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof."
or "complete trust or confidence in someone or something."
Look at what the verse 4915 says
"The bedouins say, "We have believed." Say, "You have not believed; but say , 'We have submitted,' for faith has not yet entered your hearts."
And then
4915
"The believers are only the ones who have believed in Allah and His Messenger and then doubt not but strive with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allah . It is those who are the truthful."
Here the verse is telling you WHO the believers are! And look what you are saying.
Verse 17
"...He has guided you to the faith..."
This is reasoning . .
and where is your reason and proof to counter the above verses ?
As shown - it is wrong reasoning. Also - you decided to ignore the above and moved on . . . to something else. That is called "avoidance".
I do not mean to offend you - but you do come out with some really silly things. Generally the exact opposite of what the Quran actually says.
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So why bother pointing it out? It doesn't have to be "reason" every time. (not a reason - repetition)It is there simply challenging you. And as I pointed out - it is you who need to provide reason/evidence for your claims.
Yes we do. This is the "basics". Of course we worship Allah. (not a reason - repetition and insist you are right)
Worship (not a reason - repetition)
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the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity. (not a reason - repetition)
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religious rites or ceremonies, constituting a formal expression of reverence for a deity. (not a reason - repetition)
Of course there is "worship" in Islam. Looking you even quoted the perfect verse - which proves there is worship in Islam. (not a reason - repetition)
What else do you think worship means? (refer here - not a reason - repetition)
As shown - it is wrong reasoning. Also - you decided to ignore the above and moved on . . . to something else. That is called "avoidance". (deceiving - refer to my reply)
I do not mean to offend you - but you do come out with some really silly things (ad hominem - attack on the messenger instead of the message). Generally the exact opposite of what the Quran actually says. (misrepresentation or deceive)
See ? This what I called an argument by repetition - argumentum ad nauseam . .
I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right.
I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right.
I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right.Therefore , I am right.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606172.msg346215#msg346215
You do not give reasons, but you merely insist that you are right until people become sick of it . . boringggg.
and worst . . you don't even know how to make an argument (refer here and here) . .
and when people point out that the flaw . . . you start being arrogant and attack people, ignoring all answers with blank denial, while insisting that you are right . . repeat it over and over and over again . . as much you can, and until people become sick of it.
Reason ! I pray for reason . . .
You only "submit" if you have belief. Your proposition is simply ridiculous.
Faith "strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof."
or "complete trust or confidence in someone or something."
Look at what the verse 4915 says
"The bedouins say, "We have believed." Say, "You have not believed; but say , 'We have submitted,' for faith has not yet entered your hearts."
Facts
The bedouins say they have believed
Allah says they have not believed
Therefore the bedouins were right, and Allah was wrong ?
Allah did not know what the bedouins really meant to say ?
You are not smart, right ?
And then
4915
"The believers are only the ones who have believed in Allah and His Messenger and then doubt not but strive with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allah . It is those who are the truthful."
Here the verse is telling you WHO the believers are! And look what you are saying.
Verse 17
"...He has guided you to the faith..."
That's what I said . .
They are not believers and in fact, and they know nothing about Allah. (refer here)
Therefore . . .
and where is your reason and proof to counter the above verses ?
ie. (4914-17) and (6121)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606111.msg344772#msg344772
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606111.msg344801#msg344801
quote . . .
back your thinking up - from the Quran by using language and logic.
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Deen - D y n - debt - duty . . . our debt to Allah since everything in this world is lent to us.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606172.msg346146#msg346146
Therefore, we need to be grateful . .
DIN?this word has been used in various contexts, among them being ascendancy, sovereignty, management, conduct of affairs, ruling power, mastership, ownership, exercise of power, code of law, constitution, law of requital, an order. The Quran has described Islam as Ad-Din, which is generally translated as religion. However, in the light of the above meanings, it should be clear that this is not only incorrect, but distorts and negates the very meaning of din. Islam is not a religion (madhab), and it has never been described as one in the Quran. Islam is a way of life, a system, a code of law. In the external universe Islam signifies the Divine Order that governs life and the movement of the entire universe. The whole purpose of the Quran is to establish a universal order based on the Divinely ordained values of life. This is ad-din; <a href="http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/ICR/ICR.htm">Islam A Challenge to Religion</a>
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Muslims - you were seriously abusive against me. You shamelessly swore and attempted to bully. Might I remind you of your previous conduct?
So be warned.
Yes we do. This is the "basics". Of course we worship Allah. (not a reason - repetition and insist you are right)
No I do not. You deviously ignored all the "reasoning" - took it out and falsely alleged this.
You have done this kind o thing before.
Look at what I wrote
Worship
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the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.
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religious rites or ceremonies, constituting a formal expression of reverence for a deity.
Of course there is "worship" in Islam. Looking you even quoted the perfect verse - which proves there is worship in Islam.
What else do you think worship means?
Now - this one issue is enough to highlight what type of person you are. brickwall
Worship (not a reason - repetition)
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the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity. (not a reason - repetition)
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religious rites or ceremonies, constituting a formal expression of reverence for a deity. (not a reason - repetition)
Of course there is "worship" in Islam. Looking you even quoted the perfect verse - which proves there is worship in Islam. (not a reason - repetition)
What else do you think worship means? (refer here - not a reason - repetition)
Of course it is reason - your silly denials are not going to work.
I have clearly shown what worship means and how we do worship the almighty.
I do not mean to offend you - but you do come out with some really silly things (ad hominem - attack on the messenger instead of the message).
Are you for real? Should I quote you your abuse back? And ad hminem is if CALLED YOU silly.
I didn't. I called what you come out with SILLY.
Now learn the difference - rather than pretending to know logic and making more accusations.
You do not give reasons, but you merely insist that you are right until people become sick of it . . boringggg.
It is clear from the above I did give reason.
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I showed you meaning of the word Worship.
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I highlighted your mistakes.
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I quoted verse to back up what I counter-claim
Now if that isn't "reason" - then what is?
You've got one track abusive mind - when you are challenged you revert to type. And you are doing it again.
What you are also doing is . . . not answering questions raised against you.
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and when people point out that the flaw . . . you start being arrogant and attack people, ignoring all answers with blank denial, while insisting that you are right . . repeat it over and over and over again . . as much you can, and until people become sick of it.
So what happened to you ad hominem?
Oh yeah . . .that is only for making baseless accusations against others.
You are doing it again
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Example of a blank denial?
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Example of an ignored question?
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