:: Bani or Walad - What does they mean? ::

The_Chimp

Wow! I am surprised.

Surprised over what?

Please let me know, do you believe that alQuraan is the word of Allah and it is sent by Allah?

I take it this is merely a rhetorical question.

If yes, then please answer me how Allah allows humans to insert something in His Book of guidance for the mankind?

What do you mean hoe Allah allows? There isn't really something that significant inserted - other than marks to help pronunciation for non-Arabs.

You wrote something about mudhaaf , I need an example from alQuraan for the same.

The word Haqq - its root is Ha Qa Qa.

mmkhan

Surprised over what?

I take it this is merely a rhetorical question.

Sorry, but this is not the answer for my question.

What do you mean hoe Allah allows? There isn't really something that significant inserted - other than marks to help pronunciation for non-Arabs.

I strongly believe that if anything even a single mark is added to the text of alQuraan and if it remain for years, than that book is no more considered as the book of Allah. As human addition are there along with the text of Allah in it.

The word Haqq - its root is Ha Qa Qa.

Thanks for the aayat. Yes, I agree about the root.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

The_Chimp

I strongly believe that if anything even a single mark is added to the text of alQuraan and if it remain for years, than that book is no more considered as the book of Allah. As human addition are there along with the text of Allah in it.

So how do you know what is and isn't book of Allah?

mmkhan

So how do you know what is and isn't book of Allah?

As the way I study alQuraan, it confirms me that each and every letter and marks is from Allah in alQuraan. It is highly impossible for humans to write or add something so perfectly and precisely.

If you go through some of my threads inshaAllah it explains it much.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Man_of_Faith

Peace Mr Chimp,

We have some book we call Qur'an in Arabic for some reason which we all know about. God's Message is within.

I ain't complicating my religion, but you can do it if you'd like.

The_Chimp

As the way I study alQuraan, it confirms me that each and every letter and marks is from Allah in alQuraan. It is highly impossible for humans to write or add something so perfectly and precisely.

If you go through some of my threads inshaAllah it explains it much.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Sorry - but not quite buying it. Almighty does not go around handing out personal interpretations by inspiration. Yes, that does happen - but people tend to keep that quiet.

The only valid interpretations are achieved by linguistic perspective and reasoning.

The_Chimp

Peace Mr Chimp,

We have some book we call Qur'an in Arabic for some reason which we all know about. God's Message is within.

I ain't complicating my religion, but you can do it if you'd like.

We've bee through this - several times. And you came out wanting. Here

"...we call Qur'an in Arabic..."

Concentrate that for a minute . . . who between us two do you reckon is stronger? Or at least makes the stronger claims?

As to messages

There is that thread about Alcohol . . . a guy "Abdul-Hadi" desperately tried to justify alcohol to an extent . . . in the end he left it by making unwarranted personal attack - he got personal.

Repeatedly on this forum - the "message" people try to find is aligning Quran and derived morality with Western Enlightenment values.

unknownuser

Incorrect. There are plent of such root. Ha Qa Qa Haqq.

Qa Sa Sa Qass - to cut.

Ka Na Na To hide.

I already said to you before, it's about shaddah.

Haqqa
Bunna

Sound double because diacritic shaddah and both two words formed by two alphabets.

Another proof
{}

This is 730 taken from Codex Sana'a and notice the red (haqqa), only contains two huruf and free from diacritic.

The original one is http//postimg.org/image/6nk5gaxfx/ (if you want little bit confused).

Roots classification formed long time after revelation of the Quran, so don't ever used too much modern term to understand Quran.

Don't dispute this little issue anymore. Peace

The_Chimp

I already said to you before, it's about shaddah.

Haqqa
Bunna

Sound double because diacritic shaddah and both two words formed by two alphabets.

Another proof
{}

This is 730 taken from Codex Sana'a and notice the red (haqqa), only contains two huruf and free from diacritic.

The original one is http//postimg.org/image/6nk5gaxfx/ (if you want little bit confused).

Don't dispute this little issue anymore. Peace

You don't know what you are talking about. I generally tend to skip over what you write.

I already said to you before, it's about shaddah.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about . . . else what does the above mean? What is it about the Shaddah?

Foe example - the word Haq is made of Ha Qa Qa and when this verbs is transposed into other verb from this becomes clear. For example in form 2 - the derived "verbal noun" is Tahqeeq - just like any other triliteral root.

Look at your English - your sentences barely make sense.
So what is level of you Arabic? Where have you studied?

All Arabic words originate from at least a triliteral root. Try looking this up - it is real basics.

Don't dispute this little issue anymore. Peace

The only one "disputing" is you.

unknownuser

All Arabic words originate from at least a triliteral root. Try looking this up - it is real basics.

You're victim of diacritic.

Modern root classification is based on "pronouncation" like mmkhan said and mostly used for Arabic learning for non-Arabic speaker.
It has nothing to do with literal text at all.
Even diacritics system was formed after the Phrophet's dies.

The word even a child knew if this word contains two alphabets.

Like I said before don't use too much modern terms to understand Quran since it's in Classical format.

Man_of_Faith

We've bee through this - several times. And you came out wanting. Here

"...we call Qur'an in Arabic..."

Concentrate that for a minute . . . who between us two do you reckon is stronger? Or at least makes the stronger claims?

It doesn't matter bud', I ain't following your stuff. Who wants to follow it can do so, but otherwise there is a more logical approach. I fell into the trap before of becoming overly unfriendly with you in response to your lack of attitude, but this is as vile as I am gonna get now. But I find your overall attitude appalling and lots of other people find it that way too.

Red Yes. Qur'an is an Arabic word, but why use that when you can just as well call it something else in English. It's a word for something and not only a proper noun. You lectured me so nicely before while it is irrelevant anyway. I call it 'The Book'.

You can go on with your rituals or your religious ideas, but don't force 'em on me please. I don't want the Arabia anno 7th century with wife beatings or polygamy then I rather follow my "Westernized" Islam as you call it. And I ain't regarding my God as a neanderthal god either. My God is up-to-date with space, technology and all this stuff, and God does communicate with us.

Excuse me if you were offended. Just had to make it clear.

As to messages

There is that thread about Alcohol . . . a guy "Abdul-Hadi" desperately tried to justify alcohol to an extent . . . in the end he left it by making unwarranted personal attack - he got personal.

Repeatedly on this forum - the "message" people try to find is aligning Quran and derived morality with Western Enlightenment values.

Well Mr. Chimp. What is 'Western Enlightenment values' anyway? If it comes to alcohol and stuff it does not require a mastermind to figure out that it is unhealthy and with other detrimental effects.

Blue Well. You've gone into that trap yourself, just as I have. People tend to respond to aggression with aggression, but it takes a bit of patience to persevere those. But we know that to fight fire with fire is a quite bad solution after all. The problem is that the behavioral part is utterly important so it takes some consideration.

Good night, Mr. Chimp

Man_of_Faith

Look at your English - your sentences barely make sense.

Mr. Chimp,

Are you going to mock Mr. Earthdom for his English? He has not claimed to possess any decent skill at English and in fact often excuse himself for it.

Once again I bid you a good night

The_Chimp

You're victim of diacritic.

I know - oh the abuse I have taken from from an unsuspecting Kasrah.

Modern root classification is based on "pronouncation" like mmkhan said and mostly used for Arabic learning for non-Arabic speaker.

When did he say that? Diacritc Marks are not really modern invention. They go back to 664-673 Muawyiah 1.

The word even a child knew if this word contains two alphabets.

You mean letters - sorry - you don't understand much - and you don't know much. I asked you - what do you think Shaddah means - no answer.

I doubt you understood what I replied - not much sign of it in your answer.

Like I said before don't use too much modern terms to understand Quran since it's in Classical format.

Modern terms? Which ones are them again? Sunshine - I have studied and specialize in Classical Arabic. Try not to make things up.

Triliteral roots are even older than Arabic and go back back to the main trunk the Semitic languages. Arabic does not have bilietral roots. And this is "Classical" Arabic.

The_Chimp

Mr. Chimp,

Are you going to mock Mr. Earthdom for his English? He has not claimed to possess any decent skill at English and in fact often excuse himself for it.

Once again I bid you a good night

Have I mocked him? Sweetums - it is FRUSTRATING to converse with some who has poor English. And his English is bad. A bit devious of you to highlight - isn't it? >

Oh the employment of "dirty tactics" . . . sledging they call it in Cricket.

The_Chimp

It doesn't matter bud'

I bet you're from Yorkshire.

I ain't following your stuff. Who wants to follow it can do so, but otherwise there is a more logical approach. I fell into the trap before of becoming overly unfriendly with you in response to your lack of attitude, but this is as vile as I am gonna get now. But I find your overall attitude appalling and lots of other people find it that way too.

So you had no reply . . . and reverted to type . . . by trying to fling this baseless accusation.

And you failed to highlight - what exactly is "appalling" about my attitude?

If I remember correctly - I have been repeatedly friendly to you - DESPITE your verbal abuse and swearing.

No issue here . . . other than try to get me banned!

Red Yes. Qur'an is an Arabic word, but why use that when you can just as well call it something else in English. It's a word for something and not only a proper noun. You lectured me so nicely before while it is irrelevant anyway. I call it 'The Book'.

Quran means Recitation - and not book.

You can go on with your rituals or your religious ideas, but don't force 'em on me please. I don't want the Arabia anno 7th century with wife beatings or polygamy then I rather follow my "Westernized" Islam as you call it. And I ain't regarding my God as a neanderthal god either. My God is up-to-date with space, technology and all this stuff, and God does communicate with us.

This does not relate with anything what was under-discussion.

It is a NASTY ATTACK on your part.

Nasty and Sectarian.

I point out - to you the fact that Arabic is in Quran - by pointing out that even you are saying it . . . and pointing out - that you lack skills in that department.

Read what you have written - once again your "ugly" side is raring its head it seems.

Excuse me if you were offended. Just had to make it clear.

Made what clear?

You made nothing clear . . . you attacked me again . . . and then this!

Yeah right.

Look - it is CLEARLY you being nasty

Well Mr. Chimp. What is 'Western Enlightenment values' anyway? If it comes to alcohol and stuff it does not require a mastermind to figure out that it is unhealthy and with other detrimental effects.

Yet - it is mostly "Quran only" that are trying to legitamize it. Article on this site - calls it not haram.

Blue Well. You've gone into that trap yourself, just as I have. People tend to respond to aggression with aggression, but it takes a bit of patience to persevere those. But we know that to fight fire with fire is a quite bad solution after all. The problem is that the behavioral part is utterly important so it takes some consideration.

No - this time . . . aggression is JUST from you.

Else . . . where have I been aggressive? In this thread . . . do point it out . . .

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Relax Mr. Chimp. What's the difference between if it is recitation or book?

I'm aware that I don't know much Arabic and I don't care either. Take your book and eat it.

I ain't that unkind, but now you're heating up. I said I don't care about your religion and that was just out of courtesy. You can choose to follow it, but you act out on my choice.

Ok. I didn't beautify your religious views but that is because you accept it that way, ie. Sunni Islam. Sorry for saying it.

Go have a cuppa tea will ya?

The_Chimp

Peace,

Relax Mr. Chimp. What's the difference between if it is recitation or book?

I'm aware that I don't know much Arabic and I don't care either. Take your book and eat it.

I ain't that unkind, but now you're heating up. I said I don't care about your religion and that was just out of courtesy. You can choose to follow it, but you act out on my choice.

Ok. I didn't beautify your religious views but that is because you accept it that way, ie. Sunni Islam. Sorry for saying it.

Go have a cuppa tea will ya?

Huh? Your rudeness towards me - I feel - is completely unwarranted.

I HAVE NOT BEEN RUDE TO YOU . . . ELSE PLEASE HIGHLIGHT IT.

You are repeatedly making "sectarian" attacks. That is directly attacking me through what I believe in.

You are completely free to attack Sunnism - and I love lively debate . . . but using that to attack a person directly is unwarranted.

I am not going to sit here trading insults with you. And as before if an admin is waltzing by . . . please move these out of here.

If you have something to add to the debate fine. . . other than that don't bother and make everything "nasty".

Man_of_Faith

What is a "sectarian attack"?

Looks like throwing rocks in glasshouses here.

I didn't use so harsh words and surely not more unfriendly than your common wordings. Anyway sorry to have upset you. I said sorry for saying it. And I said that you're free to believe what you wanna believe.

The eat book I said for your constant tendency to remind me of my apparent lack of skill at Arabic. Thus I said you can eat your Arabic Book and bla bla.. yes as you read. It's not so offensive is it, but rather a sign of annoyance.

I tried to keep it quite friendly and not so escalated.

Report it to the moderators if you'd like, but if they'd react except saying that it's off-topic and redundant then I am puzzled.

Let me have my night now will ya?

The_Chimp

What is a "sectarian attack"?

Looks like throwing rocks in glasshouses here.

I didn't use so harsh words and surely not more unfriendly than your common wordings. Anyway sorry to have upset you. I said sorry for saying it. And I said that you're free to believe what you wanna believe.

The eat book I said for your constant tendency to remind me of my apparent lack of skill at Arabic. Thus I said you can eat your Arabic Book and bla bla.. yes as you read. It's not so offensive is it, but rather a sign of annoyance.

I tried to keep it quite friendly and not so escalated.

Report it to the moderators if you'd like, but if they'd react except saying that it's off-topic and redundant then I am puzzled.

Let me have my night now will ya?

If you are that worried about your night - why bother to reply? You are choosing to prolong this. . . talk about having your cake and eating it too.

What is a "sectarian attack"?

I already explained - using sectarian language to attack the person RATHER than the sect/belief itself.

Examples

I said I don't care about your religion and that was just out of courtesy. You can choose to follow it, but you act out on my choice.

It doesn't matter bud', I ain't following your stuff. Who wants to follow it can do so, but otherwise there is a more logical approach. I fell into the trap before of becoming overly unfriendly with you in response to your lack of attitude, but this is as vile as I am gonna get now. But I find your overall attitude appalling and lots of other people find it that way too.

You can go on with your rituals or your religious ideas, but don't force 'em on me please. I don't want the Arabia anno 7th century with wife beatings or polygamy then I rather follow my "Westernized" Islam as you call it. And I ain't regarding my God as a neanderthal god either. My God is up-to-date with space, technology and all this stuff, and God does communicate with us.

This is a forum - I cannot "force" anything on to you. And when you came out with this - it was completely unwarranted. Mine or your beliefs were not in question.

Like I said - if you wish to attack Sunnism - sure that is a whole different ball game.

I tried to keep it quite friendly and not so escalated.

There was no need for it in the 1st place.

This is my last post on the matter - we are not having a spat. anything to say to me - PM. Else....

mmkhan

Sorry - but not quite buying it. Almighty does not go around handing out personal interpretations by inspiration. Yes, that does happen - but people tend to keep that quiet.

The only valid interpretations are achieved by linguistic perspective and reasoning.

This shows me that you have just read alQuraan and never studied alKitaab. I suggest you try to studying alKitaab.
Anyway, I think it is better for us to agree to disagree with each other. handshake

And please do not discuss any other personal or non-related to this thread matters in here. This is not only for you but for all. Thanks.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan