95 Theses: 9.5 Theses to Follow the Quran Alone!

muslims

So why bother pointing it out? It doesn't have to be "reason" every time. (not a reason - repetition)It is there simply challenging you. And as I pointed out - it is you who need to provide reason/evidence for your claims.

Yes we do. This is the "basics". Of course we worship Allah. (not a reason - repetition and insist you are right)

Worship (not a reason - repetition)

the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity. (not a reason - repetition)
religious rites or ceremonies, constituting a formal expression of reverence for a deity. (not a reason - repetition)

Of course there is "worship" in Islam. Looking you even quoted the perfect verse - which proves there is worship in Islam. (not a reason - repetition)

What else do you think worship means? (refer here - not a reason - repetition)

As shown - it is wrong reasoning. Also - you decided to ignore the above and moved on . . . to something else. That is called "avoidance". (deceiving - refer to my reply)

I do not mean to offend you - but you do come out with some really silly things (ad hominem - attack on the messenger instead of the message). Generally the exact opposite of what the Quran actually says. (misrepresentation or deceive)

See ? This what I called an argument by repetition - argumentum ad nauseam . .

I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right.
I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right.
I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right.

Therefore , I am right.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606172.msg346215#msg346215

You do not give reasons, but you merely insist that you are right until people become sick of it . . boringggg.

and worst . . you don't even know how to make an argument (refer here and here) . .

and when people point out that the flaw . . . you start being arrogant and attack people, ignoring all answers with blank denial, while insisting that you are right . . repeat it over and over and over again . . as much you can, and until people become sick of it.

Reason ! I pray for reason . . .

You only "submit" if you have belief. Your proposition is simply ridiculous.

Faith "strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof."

or "complete trust or confidence in someone or something."

Look at what the verse 4915 says

"The bedouins say, "We have believed." Say, "You have not believed; but say , 'We have submitted,' for faith has not yet entered your hearts."

Facts

The bedouins say they have believed

Allah says they have not believed

Therefore the bedouins were right, and Allah was wrong ?

Allah did not know what the bedouins really meant to say ?

You are not smart, right ?

And then

4915

"The believers are only the ones who have believed in Allah and His Messenger and then doubt not but strive with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allah . It is those who are the truthful."

Here the verse is telling you WHO the believers are! And look what you are saying.

Verse 17

"...He has guided you to the faith..."

That's what I said . .

They are not believers and in fact, and they know nothing about Allah. (refer here)

Therefore . . .

and where is your reason and proof to counter the above verses ?

ie. (4914-17) and (6121)

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606111.msg344772#msg344772

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606111.msg344801#msg344801

quote . . .

back your thinking up - from the Quran by using language and logic.

muslims

Deen - D y n - debt - duty . . . our debt to Allah since everything in this world is lent to us.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606172.msg346146#msg346146

Therefore, we need to be grateful . .

DIN?this word has been used in various contexts, among them being ascendancy, sovereignty, management, conduct of affairs, ruling power, mastership, ownership, exercise of power, code of law, constitution, law of requital, an order. The Quran has described Islam as Ad-Din, which is generally translated as religion. However, in the light of the above meanings, it should be clear that this is not only incorrect, but distorts and negates the very meaning of din. Islam is not a religion (madhab), and it has never been described as one in the Quran. Islam is a way of life, a system, a code of law. In the external universe Islam signifies the Divine Order that governs life and the movement of the entire universe. The whole purpose of the Quran is to establish a universal order based on the Divinely ordained values of life. This is ad-din; <a href="http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/ICR/ICR.htm">Islam A Challenge to Religion</a>

The_Chimp

Muslims - you were seriously abusive against me. You shamelessly swore and attempted to bully. Might I remind you of your previous conduct?

So be warned.

Yes we do. This is the "basics". Of course we worship Allah. (not a reason - repetition and insist you are right)

No I do not. You deviously ignored all the "reasoning" - took it out and falsely alleged this.

You have done this kind o thing before.

Look at what I wrote

Worship

the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.
religious rites or ceremonies, constituting a formal expression of reverence for a deity.

Of course there is "worship" in Islam. Looking you even quoted the perfect verse - which proves there is worship in Islam.

What else do you think worship means?

Now - this one issue is enough to highlight what type of person you are. brickwall

Worship (not a reason - repetition)

the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity. (not a reason - repetition)
religious rites or ceremonies, constituting a formal expression of reverence for a deity. (not a reason - repetition)

Of course there is "worship" in Islam. Looking you even quoted the perfect verse - which proves there is worship in Islam. (not a reason - repetition)

What else do you think worship means? (refer here - not a reason - repetition)

Of course it is reason - your silly denials are not going to work.

I have clearly shown what worship means and how we do worship the almighty.

I do not mean to offend you - but you do come out with some really silly things (ad hominem - attack on the messenger instead of the message).

Are you for real? Should I quote you your abuse back? And ad hminem is if CALLED YOU silly.

I didn't. I called what you come out with SILLY.

Now learn the difference - rather than pretending to know logic and making more accusations.

You do not give reasons, but you merely insist that you are right until people become sick of it . . boringggg.

It is clear from the above I did give reason.

I showed you meaning of the word Worship.
I highlighted your mistakes.
I quoted verse to back up what I counter-claim

Now if that isn't "reason" - then what is?

You've got one track abusive mind - when you are challenged you revert to type. And you are doing it again.

What you are also doing is . . . not answering questions raised against you.

The_Chimp

and when people point out that the flaw . . . you start being arrogant and attack people, ignoring all answers with blank denial, while insisting that you are right . . repeat it over and over and over again . . as much you can, and until people become sick of it.

So what happened to you ad hominem?

Oh yeah . . .that is only for making baseless accusations against others.

You are doing it again

Example of a blank denial?
Example of an ignored question?

The_Chimp

Deen - D y n - debt - duty . . . our debt to Allah since everything in this world is lent to us.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606172.msg346146#msg346146

Therefore, we need to be grateful . .

Deen and Dayn are 2 separate words. Look it up - dictionary!

muslims

This is the question . . .

and where is your reason and proof to counter the above verses ?

ie. (4914-17) and (6121)

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606111.msg344772#msg344772

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606111.msg344801#msg344801

Facts

The bedouins say they have believed

Allah says they have not believed

Therefore the bedouins were right, and Allah was wrong ?

Allah did not know what the bedouins really meant to say ?

and let we see if you answer the above questions . . . or if there is any counter argument . .

Muslims - you were seriously abusive against me. You shamelessly swore and attempted to bully. Might I remind you of your previous conduct? (as usual . . not a counter argument - made up stories)

So be warned.

No I do not. You deviously ignored all the "reasoning" - took it out and falsely alleged this. (as usual . . not a counter argument - merely insisting he is right, for no reason)

You have done this kind o thing before.

Look at what I wrote (as usual . . insisting he is right, for no reason . . refer here)

Now - this one issue is enough to highlight what type of person you are. brickwall (as usual . . blaming . for no reason)

Of course it is reason - your silly denials are not going to work. (as usual . . not a counter argument, merely insisting that he is right, for no reason)

I have clearly shown what worship means and how we do worship the almighty. (as usual . . not a counter argument, merely insisting that he is right, for no reason)

Are you for real? Should I quote you your abuse back? And ad hminem is if CALLED YOU silly. (as usual . . not a counter argument and blank denial)

I didn't. I called what you come out with SILLY.

Now learn the difference - rather than pretending to know logic and making more accusations.

It is clear from the above I did give reason. (as usual . . not a counter argument, merely insisting that he is right, for no reason)

I showed you meaning of the word Worship. (as usual . . not a counter argument, unable to understand reason and opinions)
I highlighted your mistakes. (as usual . . not a counter argument, deception )
I quoted verse to back up what I counter-claim (as usual . . again . . deception)

Now if that isn't "reason" - then what is? (as usual . . you are not smart, right? )

You've got one track abusive mind - when you are challenged you revert to type. And you are doing it again. (as usual . . not a counter argument, and lying)

What you are also doing is . . . not answering questions raised against you. (as usual . . lying)

So what happened to you ad hominem?

Oh yeah . . .that is only for making baseless accusations against others. (as usual . . lying)

You are doing it again (as usual . . not a counter argument)

Example of a blank denial? (as usual . . not a counter argument)
Example of an ignored question? (as usual . . not a counter argument)

I give up . . talk much but evidence little. giveup

The_Chimp,
I see you talk much but evidence little.

bravo

The_Chimp

I give up . . talk much but evidence little.

I have already given up on you.

Ignore - abuse

Then repeat your old stuff.

It is VERY difficult to have a rational discussion with you. Your questions have been answered - and your objections countered.

muslims

This fits you very well . . . rotfl

See ? This what I called an argument by repetition - argumentum ad nauseam . .

I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right.
I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right.
I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right. I am right.

Therefore , I am right.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606172.msg346215#msg346215

You do not give reasons, but you merely insist that you are right until people become sick of it . . boringggg.

The_Chimp

This fits you very well . . . rotfl

Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore Ignore

Then

Repeat the same thing with nice abusive message.

And this fits you very well.

Oh look . . .

rotfl yay brickwall elektro whatever yeah

Have a few extra emoticons for good measure.

muslims

I think the pattern of your argument is very cheap . . . seems like a no-brainer . . .

some people must enjoy it very much, and spends hours just for that kind of stuff . . rotfl

The_Chimp

I think your pattern of argument is very cheap . . . seems like a no-brainer . . .

some people must enjoy it very much, and spends hours just for that kind of stuff . . rotfl

Says you . . . who has trouble stating his own name. So, why is it you asked me for my name? And then when I asked in return - you refused/ignored?

You ain't like this with me - you are like this everyone - and you have come out with some really vile verbal abuse.

muslims

Good luck with "talk much but evidence little" rotfl

The_Chimp

There is no worshipping in Islam.

You claimed there is no "worship" in Islam. And quoted the following verse

Say, "Indeed, my prayer, my rites of sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allah , Lord of the worlds. (6.162)

Yet that is worshiping. Praying to Allah - is worshiping Allah.

Let us look at what the word worship means

"a. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
b. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed."

There is prayer in Islam

"This is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for those who have Taqwa; who believe in the unseen, and who establish Salah, and spend out of what we have provided for them"

Also - the verse you quoted

"Indeed, my prayer, my rites of sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allah , Lord of the worlds. (6.162)"

The the love and devotion of Allah

"And yet there are some people, who replace Allah with rivals, loving them as Allah is loved. But the believers love Allah more intensely" (Surah Al-Baqarah 2165)

I have shown above that we do "worship" Allah. So please explain - what do you mean by saying we don't? What does the word "worship" mean to you?

And this time - we will go issue at a time - so there is no confusion.

muslims

You claimed there is no "worship" in Islam. And quoted the following verse

Say, "Indeed, my prayer, my rites of sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allah , Lord of the worlds. (6.162)

Yet that is worshiping. Praying to Allah - is worshiping Allah.

You are not smart, right ?

The whole thing including "sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allah" are not worshipping . .

that's clearly explain why you "talk much but evidence little" . . . rotfl

What does the word "worship" mean to you?

We serve Allah . .

and

For clarification . . I prefer Shabber Ahmed . . perhaps, more clearly describing Islam . .

Say, "All my duties to the Divine System, the ways to discharge them, my living and my dying are for Allah alone, the Lord of the Worlds. (6.162)

Those who wish to journey through life in blissful honor and security, are the ones who believe in the Law of Cause and Effect, though the stages of action and its reaction might be hidden from their senses. (2.3)

reason
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606111.msg344801#msg344801

p.s. still no answer . .

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606190.msg346641#msg346641

The_Chimp

You are not smart, right ?

Once more - you are in with the abuse first. Sorry - time to report you again for being nasty.

The whole thing including "sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allah" are not worshipping . .

Why aren't they? That is worship - praying is worship.

What else does worship means?

I prefer to use the Arabic

Salah - praying.

Quran clearly says we worship Allah

= worship

"It is You we worship and You we ask for help."

"O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous -"

"... , , "Do not worship except Allah ; and to parents ... "

"I do not worship what you worship."

Now there are many more verses using the word 'A Ba Da - which means "To worship".

So - what does this 'A Ba Da mean? If not worship?

that's clearly explain why you "talk much but evidence little" . . . rotfl

Yes. But this time I gave plenty of "evidence"

I asked you the question.

What does "worship" mean?

How are you defining worship?

Where is the answer. If you say we do not worship Allah . . . then how are you defining worship?

Where is the answer for this?

I told you one issue at a time.

muslims

Yes. But this time I gave plenty of "evidence"

So you admit your mistake . . good ! That is my prove that you are indeed . . lying . . ;D

and . .

There is issue regarding prayer . . for example . .

(the context talks about marriage and divorce etc)

There is no blame upon you if you divorce women you have not touched nor specified for them an obligation.
But give them compensation
the wealthy according to his capability and the poor according to his capability
a provision according to what is acceptable, a duty upon the doers of good.

And if you divorce them before you have touched them and you have already specified for them an obligation
then half of what you specified
unless they forego the right or the one in whose hand is the marriage contract foregoes it
And to forego it is nearer to righteousness
And do not forget graciousness between you
Indeed Allah , of whatever you do, is Seeing.

(suddenly the story went off track)

Maintain with care the prayers and the middle prayer and stand before Allah , devoutly obedient.
And if you fear on foot or riding
But when you are secure, then remember Allah
as He has taught you that which you did not know

(and it went on track again . . it talks about marriage and divorce etc)

And those who are taken in death among you and leave wives behind
for their wives is a bequest maintenance for one year without turning out.
But if they leave
then there is no blame upon you for what they do with themselves in an acceptable way
And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise

And for divorced women is a provision according to what is acceptable - a duty upon the righteous.
Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you might use reason.

2236-242

See?

and of course . .

"It is You we worship serve and You we ask for help."

and salah does not guarantee us to be successful . . . ie. as mentioned in (2.5)

Those are upon (right) guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. (25)

in fact it is totally wrong . . .

proof
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606111.msg344801#msg344801

p.s. still no answer . .

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606190.msg346641#msg346641

sign off.

The_Chimp

So you admit your mistake . . good ! That is my prove that you are indeed . . lying . . ;D

Huh? See - you really are NASTY. How is that lying? 1. You claim I have made a "mistake" - 2. you turn that into lying.

However - how is the above admitting to which mistake and what lying?

A civil conversation is NOT possible with you. You make personal attacks.

See?

No - I do not see. You quote some verses and simply say "See".

My God! It is frustrating. . . see what?

What is the issue?

How did you get to Divorce/Marriage?

and salah alone does not guarantee us to be successful . . . ie. as mentioned in (2.5)

What has success got to do with anything? We are talking about - WORSHIP? And Praying to a God is part of worship. I have already given you definition of what worship is. How does this answer anything?

and of course . .

"It is You we worship serve and You we ask for help."

Here all you did was cross out the word worship and that is it. Nothing else!!!!

Let me re-cap

You started off with personal abuse - an ad hominem attack.
You pasted off-topic verses and simply said "See"
I quoted several verses - explicitly saying that we worship Allah. All you did was quoted one verse with the word worship crossed off.
We are simply talking about worship and guess what? Another unrelated verse

"and salah alone does not guarantee us to be successful"

I asked you to define the word "worship". No answer.

And there we go. No questions that have been put to you have been answered. You simply veered off and quoted unrelated verses . . . made strange comments . . . and that is it.

Conclusion We do worship Allah - as several Quranic verses say it.

muslims

I asked you to define the word "worship". No answer.

Why should I define the word worship when I'm supporting the word "serve" Allah, not "worship" Allah ?

You are not smart, right ? rotfl

No - I do not see.

Yes, I totally agree ! ;D

The_Chimp

Why should I define the word worship when I'm supporting the word "serve" Allah, not "worship" Allah ?

You are not smart, right ? rotfl

You should define the word . . . because you are rejecting it. How do you reject something when you do not even know its meaning?

So - as you say you "serve" Allah - then you why don't you define "serve" as well? And the explain WHY worship is wrong.

How do you account for the bizarre previous answer?

And where are all the questions that you haven't answered?

Why is it Quran is saying "worship"?

You are not smart, right ? rotfl

You have trouble letting of being abusive. You attempt to seek credence from such verbal abuse. Why? Because your bizarre and ludicrous tin-pot theories cannot stand up by themself. hmm

muslims

Burden of Proof - regarding your claim is upon you

http//rationalwiki.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof

You should define the word . . . because you are rejecting it. How do you reject something when you do not even know its meaning?

semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit
"the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges." (me, to serve Allah . . you, to worship Allah)

So I have to prove that Islam is about to serve Allah . . not to define the word of worship . .

It is your burden to proof and explain "worship" . . not me !

It is not my duty to prove on your behalf . .

See? I have proven again . . you are not smart .

It is not challenging to prove that you are not smart . . in fact, it is quite boring . . . rotfl

So - as you say you "serve" Allah - then you why don't you define "serve" as well? And the explain WHY worship is wrong.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606190.msg346653#msg346653

I have explained . . read again, or maybe . . "you cannot see" . . understood !

Let me help show you that salah cannot guarantee us to be successful . .

Who is Muhammad?

I believe he is the most righteous person ever lived . . . and a True Believer

And indeed, you (Muhammad)
are of a great moral character
(684)

But and even if he believe in Allah . . .

. . . recite shahada perfectfully
. . . knows and speaks well in arabic
. . . perform salah
. . . pray in mosque
. . . pray every night to Allah
. . . perform hajj
. . . fasting for his entire life
. . . dzikr.. and never say bad things about people
. . . pay zakat and sadaqah all his property in the cause of Allah
. . . go to jihad and sacrifice himself to Allah
. . . study carefully all the revelations...
. . . and... bla... bla... bla...
. . . you name it, as one of the most righteous person ever lived...

He will not be a Muslim if disobey one "simple prohibition" not to eat that on which Allah's name has not been mentioned

And DO NOT eat

of that on which Allah's name has not been mentioned
and that is most surely a transgression
and most surely the Shaitans suggest to their friends
that they should contend with you

and if you obey them

you (Muhammad) shall most surely be polytheists <- ie. not a Muslim
(6121)

Because Allah says "DO NOT" ! !

Therefore, please disapprove that salah can guarantee us to success according to 2.5

Those are upon (right) guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. (25)

Take your time and don't let me prove that you are not smart . . again ! laugh

and . .

p.s. still no answer . .

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606190.msg346641#msg346641

off.