95 Theses: 9.5 Theses to Follow the Quran Alone!

The_Chimp

Proven beyond doubt . . the talk much but evidence little person ! laugh

Proven that you are nothing but abusive . . . "little person" - well really!

Is that how your arguments work too?

All the debate leads back to this one question . . . your proposition that we do not worship Allah.

Now all your usual tricks are to avoid answering . . . how do you define "Worship".

You have tried EVERYTHING - to get out of answering.

EVERYTHING.

muslims

Still no answer . . .

Proven that you are nothing but abusive . . . "little person" - well really! (see . .ad hominem just to escape from answering the counter argument)

Is that how your arguments work too? (and again . . no reason, no answer, no counter arguments)

All the debate leads back to this one question . . . your proposition that we do not worship Allah. (yes . we serve Allah all our entire life and not like other religions, who only worship their God)

Now all your usual tricks are to avoid answering . . . how do you define "Worship". (this guy talks as if he knows everything . . but he still confuse with burden of proof - here rotfl)

You have tried EVERYTHING - to get out of answering. (really ? and you are running from answering my counter arguments like a zebra . . read again through all 6 pages and see how silly you are - ridiculous mistakes!)

EVERYTHING.

Shakir
Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help. (1.5)

Hamid S. Aziz
Thee alone we serve and Thee alone we ask for aid (1.5)

(2011 Edition)
You alone we serve, and You alone we seek for help. (1.5)

(2013 Edition)
You alone we serve, and You alone we seek for help. (1.5)

Dr. Shabbir Ahmed

1.4 (Realizing these facts), we obey You alone and we ask You alone to help us (as we obey You).

no answer . .

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606190.msg346467#msg346467

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606190.msg346641#msg346641

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606190.msg346658#msg346658

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606190.msg346653#msg346653

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Worship Old English weorthscipe being worthy, respect, from weorth (WORTH1) + -scipe (-SHIP)

Is God not worthy of worship according to the word's literal meaning?

Worth - ship !

mohamad_itani

there is a lot of quarrel here,
my understanding of the word"na3boud" is different from most point of views.
it has to be from the teachings of the Quran.
Allah created this world in six days and on the seventh "istawa 3ala el 3arsh" ,Allah with him Being the source of all creation an the source of light,Nour ,and not light in terms of electric light, has given the possibility of existence for all that exists. he is still the sustainer and with out him all will crumble. disappear.
He balances every thing "istawa 3ala el 3arsh" .
ALLah has created a universal system of balance. our beliefs are made up in our minds.
this world is real not in our minds.look out the window there might be a tree,if it is there then it is there you are not imagining it. Allah put it there.but we have this power to make up things in our mind and head.to imagine.
imagining Allah through stories be it biblical or hadeath will not help. it is using the same old rotten system created by man.
i believe i am on Allah's side so by default i think i am going to go to heaven for i believe in 1,2,3,4.
unfortunately it does not work this way.
it only works through gods system in the Quran which is"the balance of all " al deen.
Deen is simple and it is to give in to the will of allah and the balance he has created.
most people take matters in their hands and offset that balance. then comes judgment day where what ever has been offset ,it will be put back in proper order.
to have the right deen is to go with that balance,of course that balance cannot be kept except through the teachings , guide and teacher the Quran.
you cannot expect to see all that balance if you don't pray.then it is said that you must do good. to restore that balance.
refrain from evil,treat others justly and do good.
now our minds play tricks on us we want to get a closer step to him ,but we are already close enough.he is right here. no two meet except that Allah will be their third.for no existence with out Allah.
please take into consideration my poor poor poor poor arabic for i don't have a dictionary ,i only follow Quran.
now back to prayer how does one pray,a lot has been said so many topics here in the forum as well.
i will take that from the Quran and it shall be Good.
some people has called this balance Karma .it is universally observed no doubt about it.
only the reincarnation of the "Qareen" has made it difficult for most of us to really separate our real selfs from our "Qareen".not that he will not be there for he is part of us.but only in prayer which is observance through "sujud" =(closed eyes ) can one see all that.
you will be calmed through your prayers and all is clear you don't need to conclude.
sister windy a catholic nun has been praying for 50 years ,she has done it for hours every day.
in one of her books she states that the best prayer she has ever had is at dawn standing in the presence of the lord.saying nothing doing nothing closed eyes with him there.
that system that sister windy discovered in a life time was given to us through the Quran.common day prayer of moslems which is ritual and has not been given through Quran will not do .dont mistake sujud for what you know it to be ,verify it in the Quran,i simply see it means closed eyes.
so how to believe will be clear once one can follow in the foot steps of the Quran.and not the arabic dictionary.
peace.

noble

Peace

a beautiful first entry in this thread, defiled and besmirched by arguments...

muslim and islam are arabic words which are not easy to translate, but the Quran does do a very good job of telling us what they mean...

muslims

the Quran does do a very good job of telling us what they mean...

Yes . . and according to you, it means ?

I made my stand very clear I drink alcohol... I am a Muslim... I do not see anything in the Quran that asks me to stop drinking alcohol... I am advised to avoid being drunk when I pray... I am advised not to use alcohol to lose control and fall prey to the machinations of Satan...

and of course . .

when they are stuck with no answer . .

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606121.msg346878#msg346878

why you are disagreeing with your own statement ?

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606121.msg346865#msg346865

They will insist on their belief . . despite without reason

They deceive Allah and those who believe
but they deceive not except themselves and perceive not
29

and they will start making irrelevant comments (ad hominem)

That is normal.

noble

muslims

dude, you have issues... LOL!

muslims

dude, you have issues... LOL!

So . . . anyone who disagree with your belief have issues ?

You have problems dealing with disagreement ? rotfl

noble

So . . . anyone who disagree with your belief have issues ?

You have problems dealing with disagreement ? rotfl

maybe, but what is certain is that I do not wish to deal with extremists of your kind...

muslims

maybe, but what is certain is that I do not wish to deal with extremists of your kind...

Yes . . I do realize all sectarians have problems dealing with disagreement . . it is their traits and they even call people "extremists" just for the issue of disagreeing with their belief . . They lack reasoning skills and need to resort to name-calling and other strategy . . . LOL !

no answer . . .

why you are disagreeing with your own statement ?

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606121.msg346865#msg346865

I am extremist simply because I ask you question ? http//www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/facebook-cute-giggle-smiley-emoticon.gif

noble

MUSLIMS, you certainly resort to name calling yourself, so your case is that of a pot calling the kettle black...

calling me a sectarian is the worst insult one can throw at me...

so I will respond in kind, you read to me like an extremist indeed, and your extreme is not tolerating being challenged...

in fact I believe deep down you are a hadith worshiper...

you cannot handle rejection, this is why you lash out and become nasty when one criticises you...

grow up and try get the wisdom of empathy, that will help you in life...

Man_of_Faith

Peace theNabster,

Do not let him destroy your day. He has this heavily sarcastic personality.

noble

Peace theNabster,

Do not let him destroy your day. He has this heavily sarcastic personality.

Cheers for the kind words, Man of Faith...

but these are not sarcasm... I call that bullying and being obnoxious to force one's point of view on others...

a simple I do not agree with what you say suffice...

besides, I did not even address him in this thread, I was on about the arguments and flamings that festered following what I consider an excellent first post...

JavaLatte

#6) God Permits Lies to be attributed to Every Prophet & Messenger

A) The Quran confirms that for every prophet there will be enemies of human and jinn devils who will fabricate fancy sayings and attribute them to the same messengers & Prophets to deceive the people

"We have permitted the enemies of every prophet, human and jinn devils, to inspire to one another fancy sayings, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications." (Quran 6112).

"This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter listen to such fabrications, and accept them, and thus expose their real convictions. (Quran 6113)

Thus God allows lies and fabrications to be attributed to messengers and prophets and leaves these lies and fabrications as a test.

Look what comes right after 6112-113

"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this fully detailed book? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt." (Quran 6114)

"The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." (Quran 6115)

B) On the day of Judgment, The prophet will say

"The messenger said (on the day of Judment), "My Lord, my people have forsaken this Quran." (Quran 2530)

The Word used in 2530, is "Forsaken' (Arabic Mahjoorah). Thus by Judgment day, many people will have forsaken the Quran. The word forsaken implies that they have took something else besides it.

Look what comes after 2530
"We thus set up against every prophet enemies from among the guilty. Your Lord suffices as a guide, and as master." (Quran 2531)

This goes back to the "Enemies" of every prophet, inspiring fallce fancy words of 6112-113. Thus, 2530 gives us a glimpse that people will be following the many fancy words falsified and attributed to the prophet. This Brings the next point

#7) God revealed only One Hadith (Narration), and not 600,000+ Hadiths

A) Throughout the Quran, God speaks of only one singular revelation, which is the Quran. The amount of Hadiths present today is more than the Quran itself.

"God has revealed the best Hadith; a book that is consistent, wherein there is reiteration. The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for God's message. Such is God's guidance; He bestows it upon whomever He wills. As for those sent astray by God, nothing can guide them." (Quran 3923)

"These are God's revelations that we recite to you, truthfully. In which Hadith (Narration) other than God and His revelations do they believe?" (Quran 456)

"Do you have another scripture in which you learn from?" (Quran 6837)

"In which Hadith (Narration), other than this, do they believe?" (Quran 7750)

"Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadiths, and divert others from the path of God without knowledge, and takes it in vain. These will incur a shameful retribution." (Quran 316)

B) Which is better One consistent source or many disputing sources?

"We have cited for the people from every kind of example in this Quran that they may take heed; An Arabic Quran, without any ambiguity, that they may be righteous. God cites the example of a man who deals with disputing partners , compared to a man who deals with only one consistent source . Are they the same? Praise be to God; most of them do not know!" (Quran 37 27-29).

Thanks for sharing, brother. I like this part.

"The messenger said (on the day of Judment), "My Lord, my people have forsaken this Quran." (Quran 2530)

The Word used in 2530, is "Forsaken' (Arabic Mahjoorah). Thus by Judgment day, many people will have forsaken the Quran. The word forsaken implies that they have took something else besides it.

Blue Yes, including the pseudo-science books, imo.

fye

These are some of the reasons why we follow the Quran as the only source of religious Law, and without any of the traditional Islamic secondary sources (such as Hadith, Sunnah, or Sharia Law)

#1) The Quran is Complete, fully detailed, and not missing anything

A) "The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice." (Quran 6115)

B) "Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this fully detailed book?" (Quran 6114)

C) "...We did not leave anything out of this book..." (Quran 63

D) "...We have revealed to you this book to provide explanations for everything, and guidance, and mercy, and good news...." (Quran 1689)

#2) Muhammed was ordered to Preach with the Quran, not beside it.

A) "Preach with this (Quran) to those who reverence the summoning before their Lord?they have none beside Him as a Lord and Master, nor an intercessor?that they may attain salvation. (Quran 651)

B) "Say, 'Who's testimony is the Greatest?' Say, 'God bears witness between you and I that this Quran has been inspired to me, and to warn you with it and to whomever it reaches...'" (Quran 619)

C) "We are fully aware of everything they utter, while you have no power over them. Therefore, remind with this Quran, those who reverence My warnings. (Quran 5045)

D) "We revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with what God's has brought down, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you..." (Quran 54

E) "Had he uttered any other teachings. We would have punished him; We would have cut his Aorta, and none of you could have helped him. Indeed, This (Quran) is a reminder for the righteous." (Quran 6944-4

#3) Obey God & Obey the Messenger means to Obey the Quran

A) "The Only duty of the messenger is to deliver the message." (Quran 599, 6412).

-Traditional Muslim Scholars assert that to Obey the messenger means to Obey his Sayings (Hadiths) and to follow his ways (Sunnah). However, the Quran states that The only duty of a messenger, including Muhammed, is to deliver the message. (i.e Muhammed was the mouthpiece of the message and not the initiator of the message itself).

B) The Question is, What was the message of Muhammed?

Throughout the Quran, we see that the message and revelation given to the Prophet Muhammed, is the Quran in itself (Quran 3531, 427, 619, 650-51 ), Thus

If the Prophet and Messenger Muhammed was ordered to follow and preach with the Quran (Quran 650-51), and
If the duty of a messenger is to deliver the message, Then, obeying the messenger, must mean to obey and follow his message, Which in this case, would be the Quran itself.

"Have they found other gods beside Him? Say, "Show me your proof. This is the message to my generation, consummating all previous messages." Indeed, most of them do not recognize the truth; this is why they are so hostile. (Quran 2124)

Thus, Obeying the messenger In this case, would not not mean, as traditionally conceived and taught to be, to follow his every day of lifestyle, including how to eat, how to dress, go to the bathroom, what he said, this brings the next relative point

C) "Never would a human being whom God blessed with scripture and prophethood say to people, "Idolize me beside God." Instead, he would say, "Devote yourselves absolutely to your Lord alone," according to the scripture you preach and the teachings you learn." (Quran 379)

-The Prophet Muhammed could never have advocated the idolizing of himself, His simplified message according to the Quran, was to simply Advocate "the Worship of God Alone"; Such is the signature message of all of the previous messengers and prophets. (Quran 2125)

D) Traditional Muslim scholars assert that the "Wisdom" (Hikmah 4113), that was given to prophet Muhammed are contained in Hadiths. A look in the Quran however provides us the answer to exactly what was the wisdom given to the prophet Muhammed From 1722, to 1738 We see commandments and advice given, and then by the end in 1739, it states "This is just some of the wisdom inspired to you by your Lord..." (Quran 1739). Thus the Wisdom (Hikmah 4113) given to the prophet Muhammed is contained in the Quran itself.

E) Traditional Muslim Scholars assert that God did not include all his sayings in the Quran, and that there are a category of Hadiths, called "Hadith Qudsi" (Holy Hadiths), which are God's direct words. Moreover, Traditional Muslim scholars also assert that Hadiths abrogate the Quran in some instances, and even more so, that the Quran is missing some verses, like the "Stoning verses" for the punishment of Adultery.
These assertions become fallacies when contrasted with what God has to say, that the Quran is rather perfect, complete, and not missing anything (Quran 638, 6114, 6115)

F) Traditional Muslims assert that since the Quran mentions the prophet Muhammed as an "Excellent Example" (Quran 3321), then that means we should follow his examples, from his sayings (Hadiths), to his ways and means/lifestyle (Sunnah).

However, there are two counter arguments to this notion

The wording here is "The Messenger of God", which again denotes the message of the messenger (i.e Quran). The messenger of God was an excellent example because he was following his message.
Abraham and the believers with him were also deemed an "Excellent example" (604), but we don't see these scholars advocating to follow the way of Abraham, or his hypothetical sayings and ways/lifestyle (i.e Hadiths and Sunnah of Abraham). Abraham and Muhammed were good examples because of their devotion and worship of God, and God alone, as well as their Righteous character. Since God is the source of Righteousness (7456), then the important thing becomes to follow God's commandments to attain righteousness.

G) Traditional Muslim scholars also assert that "Obey the messenger" means to follow and obey his Hadiths (sayings) and follow his Sunnah (ways), that are actually attributed to him. As we've seen, this is not what we see in the Quran. What these scholars fail to mention is the fallibility of of Hadiths and Sunnah. They were compiled by men, "authenticated" by men, and added to the belief system of the Quran by superimposing them onto "obey the messenger". How could something fallible be from God? This bring me to the next point

#4) The Quran is Infallible; Hadiths & Sunnah are Not

A) "This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than God. It confirms all previous messages, and provides a fully detailed scripture in itself. It is infallible; for it comes from the Lord of the universe. (Quran 1037)

"God bears witness what He has revealed to you; He has revealed it with His knowledge. And the angels bear witness as well, but God suffices as witness. (Quran 4166)

"Say, 'If all the humans and all the jinns banded together in order to produce a Quran like this, they can never produce anything like it, no matter how much assistance they lent one another.'" (Quran 178

We Thus Have God's Assurance, and witness that he has revealed the Quran, and that it is infallible, and has withstood the test of time to being infallible. In short, this is not true of Hadiths and Sunnah.

B) God's Revelation will be Protected

"Absolutely, we have revealed The Reminder, and, absolutely, we will Protect it." (Quran 159)

God has promised to protect his revelation, which is The Reminder to all of us. IF Hadiths and Sunnah Were part of God's revelation and reminder, then logically by 159, they would have been protected against falsehood. This is not the case however, because Hadiths and Sunnah are known to contain falsehood.
Traditional Muslims ask in defiance, "How could you trust the Quran, and not trust Hadith, when both were passed down by the same people?". The simple answer to that Question is, If Hadith's were part of God's revelation, then they would have been protected just as God promised to protect his revelation in (Quran 159). God Himself was protecting the Quran, not "the same people". This would be why the Quran is still protected to this day, while Hadiths on the other hand, have been infiltrated with falsehood and their authenticity has thus came into question, so much so that there are categories of Hadiths based on there "authenticeness". How we trust something attributed to God, which contains doubt and questionable material? This brings the Next relative point

C) God's Revelation contains No Doubt

"This book contains no doubt" (Quran 22)

The Quran is doubtless (22), and undoubtedly is the word of God (1037). Hadiths however, are compiled and categorized into a handful of levels, but for simplicity, let's take 3 categories, They are the "Authenticated", the "Good", and the "Weak".

How could something from God contain questionable material? How could something from God contain Falsehood mixed with Truth? Truth, Falsehood, and Conjecture do not mix in the light of the Quran (Quran 1036).

#5) God is Not the Author of Contradiction

A) "Why do they not study the Quran carefully? If it were from other than God, they would have found in it numerous contradictions. (Quran 482)

We see from this verse that God is not the author of contradiction. Thus, If something is from other than God, it would readily contain numerous contradictions. This is exactly the case we see in Hadiths.

Hadiths contain many contradictions. These Contradictions are with the Quran, and even with Hadith contradicting other Hadiths. Here are some good examples

B) One great example of contradiction in Hadiths, is in the so called "Most witnessed" category of Hadiths (thus more value and authenticity). One such is the so called Last Sermon of the Prophet Muhammed. It is by Hadiths themselves, supposedly is one of the most witness events, (witnessed by thousands of Muslims), yet if we look into Hadith Compilations, we find that there are actually three versions of this sermon cited in the Hadith books

-First version "I left for you what if you hold up to, you will never be misguided The Book of God and my Family?. (Al-Tirmidhi 6143; Muslim 44/4/2408; Ibn Hanbal 4/366; Darimi 23/1/3319) 2)

-Second version "I left for you what if you hold up to, you will never be misguided The Book of God and my Sunnah". (Muwatta Book 46.1.3)

-Third version "I left for you what if you hold up to, you will never be misguided, The Book of God"

(Sahih Muslim Book 7, Number 2803; Muslim 15/19/1218; Ibn Majah 25/84/3074; Abu Dawud 11/56/1905).

-Shia Muslims accept the first Version, while Sunni Muslims accept the Second Version. In the light of the Quran however, the third version would be more authentic, because it rightfully mentions the only infallible thing to follow; The Book of God.

The point here is that even with the most "authenticated" Hadiths, there is always room for doubt and falsehood to creep in. Thus How can we put trust in such questionable material and attributed?

C) Another Example of just how contradictory Hadiths are is that Hadiths contradict themselves by containing Hadiths banning the writings of Hadiths and of shunning of Hadiths. Here are are some "Authentic" Hadiths.

"Do not write down anything from me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, Vol. 1, page 171 also Sahih Muslim, Book 42, Number 7147)

Abu huraira said that the prophet said, "The 'Ummam' (nations/peoples) that preceded you have gone astray when they wrote books and upheld them besides God's scripture" (Ahmed Ibn Hanbal).

"Abu Huraira said The messenger of God came to us while we were writing his sayings and said "What is it you are writing?" we said "sayings (hadith) we hear from you messenger of God" he said, "A book other than God's book?" then Abu Huraira said, "so we gathered what we had written and burnt it all" (Taqyeed Al-Ilm, by Al-Khateeb Al-Baghdady) also (Oloom Al-Hadith, by Ibn Salah).

Hadith scholars Justified the writings of Hadiths by stating that Muhammed changed his view about writing the hadiths later on in his life. However, even from Hadiths themselves, we find the "Ban on Hadiths" Still enact, as the following hadith, was reported 30 years after the death of the Prophet, confirms that "the ban on Hadiths"

From Ibn Hanbal; Zayd Ibn Thabit (The Prophet's closest revelation writer) visited the Khalifa Mu'aawiyah (more than 30 years after the Prophet's death), and told him a story about the Prophet. Mu'aawiyah liked the story and ordered someone to write it down. But Zayd said. " The messenger of God ordered us never to write anything of his hadith".

#6) God Permits Lies to be attributed to Every Prophet & Messenger

A) The Quran confirms that for every prophet there will be enemies of human and jinn devils who will fabricate fancy sayings and attribute them to the same messengers & Prophets to deceive the people

"We have permitted the enemies of every prophet, human and jinn devils, to inspire to one another fancy sayings, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications." (Quran 6112).

"This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter listen to such fabrications, and accept them, and thus expose their real convictions. (Quran 6113)

Thus God allows lies and fabrications to be attributed to messengers and prophets and leaves these lies and fabrications as a test.

Look what comes right after 6112-113

"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this fully detailed book? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt." (Quran 6114)

"The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." (Quran 6115)

B) On the day of Judgment, The prophet will say

"The messenger said (on the day of Judment), "My Lord, my people have forsaken this Quran." (Quran 2530)

The Word used in 2530, is "Forsaken' (Arabic Mahjoorah). Thus by Judgment day, many people will have forsaken the Quran. The word forsaken implies that they have took something else besides it.