Does the Quran need a "mu3jam" or dictionary to be interpreted?
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From what I see,
S-l-w
is the root of the word that is known as meaning ritual prayer.
The root that means basically "connection" is w-S-l, from which words such as transportation, attainment are derived.
Then there is the root
S-l-y which means warm, roast...
For root S-l-w all the meanings I can see in the dictionnary are related to ritua prayers, which is weird. There should be some basic meaning form which such meaning should be drived, I feel. I am not convinced by w-S-l being the source of S-l-w.
Salaam
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true huruf,
mostly if one looks at the word and how it is used or how most scholars have translated its meaning ,then one would give in to the conventional explanation.and then again if one gives in more space to try to discover if there is a possibility that this could have some other meaning here starts a new research which of course could lead to a total new discovery or nothing.
it is never too bad to keep an open mind and look things up.
that is why i put this question in the first place as to if we need the dictionary,or can we rely on the Quran as the only source even when it comes to language.
as for prayer ,"dua" it is clear in the Quran for there are many Suras and Ayas with "Dua" in it and that we should be doing it,and how prophets have done it before us,it is even encouraged BY Allah.
that is why i put this question ,Could the "Salat " have a totally different meaning ,could it be different from " DUA" which mean to ask good or implore from him or in other terms prayer.
could.now "salat " would have a totally different meaning and a totally different function than prayer?
from what i can sum up i think i can make a separation here ,prayer or "dua" is different from "sallat".
we can approach this by seeking out the word and its derivatives as we mostly do and then we will have to put it in context and go with the best explanation.still we have to make our mind up first do we use any other tools that are not Quran.
and if you Use a dictionary or a lexicon won't that be the same as using hadeeth?won't that narrow the search to only a few remaining criteria and possibly hide the truth?
peace.
please let me know what you think. -
true huruf,
mostly if one looks at the word and how it is used or how most scholars have translated its meaning ,then one would give in to the conventional explanation.and then again if one gives in more space to try to discover if there is a possibility that this could have some other meaning here starts a new research which of course could lead to a total new discovery or nothing.
it is never too bad to keep an open mind and look things up.
that is why i put this question in the first place as to if we need the dictionary,or can we rely on the Quran as the only source even when it comes to language.
as for prayer ,"dua" it is clear in the Quran for there are many Suras and Ayas with "Dua" in it and that we should be doing it,and how prophets have done it before us,it is even encouraged BY Allah.
that is why i put this question ,Could the "Salat " have a totally different meaning ,could it be different from " DUA" which mean to ask good or implore from him or in other terms prayer.
could.now "salat " would have a totally different meaning and a totally different function than prayer?
from what i can sum up i think i can make a separation here ,prayer or "dua" is different from "sallat".
we can approach this by seeking out the word and its derivatives as we mostly do and then we will have to put it in context and go with the best explanation.still we have to make our mind up first do we use any other tools that are not Quran.
and if you Use a dictionary or a lexicon won't that be the same as using hadeeth?won't that narrow the search to only a few remaining criteria and possibly hide the truth?
peace.
please let me know what you think.Thanks for your exhaustive explanation. I get your point of view which seems very reasonable and the question you close it with. In fact I got it before, but as it happens often with me, I went off some other thought and did not answer properly.
Myself I am very fond of freedom of research. I mean that no means should be discarded out of hand, but also that no means either should be cannonised and taken as authoritative. We must not forget one basic thing that knowingly or unknowingly the final authority on what we get out of the Qur'an is each reader. I am my final authority and every one is his or her final authority, whatever they might say that they follow this or that, in last instance, it is they who decide to follow this or that, therefore EVERYBODY acts as her or his final authority, no matter what they say.
Bearing that in mind, better for each of us to be clear for ourselves on what we relie to get to our convictions. If we believe in the Qur'an it is because at some point we have become conviced that the Qur'an is authoritative, so, yes, for us the Qur'an would be the ultimate certifier of our understanding of it. To reach that end of course we may use dictionnaries, hadith, islamophobic criticism, whatever helps. Finally we can discard anything at will, but why have qualms about usign anything? Of course, we know that islamophobic blabber rarely pans out anything useful, but who knows, as the portuguese saying goes, God writes straight with crooked lines.
That said, I agree that dictionnaries themselves are hadith. I have a lot of questions of when many expressions used in the Qur'an came to mean what they are deemed to mean today, starting with the famous d-r-b. For me in 4.34 it is a blanket expression which means "bring clarity from them into the question" or make them clarify their aims position or set the community's mind at peace in regard to them, but do not intrude on them either. This is born out by the expression "leave them in their abode (don't pester them)"... and then if they comply with the request and clarify, just forget it and do not trouble them any more. In fact, from the qur'an, that is the basic meaning of d-r-b, to make things defined, clear, so that one knows what one has in his or her hands. And that is also what makes sense in that sentence, where people fear this or fear that (that the women may not fulfill their part of the pact) and do not know where they stand. So what is what is done in those cases? The obvious bring clarity. Hitting anybody is not likely to do that but to compound it, because under threat of hitting or hitting itself is is fear and not truth what is likely to come out. so it does not make sense in any way. But as I have already pointed out in some other messages, to put a hint of hitting in that phrase while at the same time insinuating the idea that it is the husbands that are addressed and not the community, worked out the miracle of bringing into the Qur'an the marital authority of the husband, which otherwise is notoriously absent. So it is a very profitable exegetical operation, but also a lie, which fills many mens heads of hot air and brings discredit to a book which is the most revolutionnary piece of women's apology I know of.
So, to summ up, yes dictionnaries are hadith. Yes we should use them but not obey them, be of them as critical as necessary. They are at our service not the other way around. And the same with any other material.
And my experience no matter how far we may go in claiming truth and justice, the Qur'an is always ahead od us, just we have to loose all veneration for "authorities" and follow our own thirst for truth, justice and knowledge.
Salaam
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Peace,
One issue is the obsession with the physical book rather than its Message. And its Message is not confined to it either and you can "keep it in the air" so to say. You do not have to understand that much of its Arabic text to follow the Message because it is practically so simple. But men have made it more complicated by inventing intricate meanings from simple words with 2-3 syllables which has no logical explanation.
God bless you
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Peace,
One issue is the obsession with the physical book rather than its Message. And its Message is not confined to it either and you can "keep it in the air" so to say. You do not have to understand that much of its Arabic text to follow the Message because it is practically so simple. But men have made it more complicated by inventing intricate meanings from simple words with 2-3 syllables which has no logical explanation.
God bless you
Everything that is in the book is the message. It is a whole world and worlds of knowledge neatly packed in a small volume, but it really is full of wisdom in every single word. I doubt that anybody ever gets even a tenth of the wisdom and depth embedded in the words of the Qur'an.
I think that what you refer to, MofF, is the spirit of the Qur'an as opposed to splitting hairs on little words such as in born out by the story of the heifer to be sacrificed. In that sense it is simple indeed as all the messages to humankind from their Creator has been alsways very simple we are His, we are out of His grace and we will return to Him, the only thing that endures and is by itself. And as conscious beings we must be aware of our dignity and duty to Him and his creation. In a few words everything can be said. But then we get more specific knowledge of human nature, of the nature of things and of the nature of God Himsef, and for those so minded the opportunity of splitting hairs.
Salaam
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Peace huruf,
The Message is contained in The Book but it is not exclusive to it and as I said it is like a message that is floating in midair. God has more resources than only a physical book or you underestimate the might of God. His pen does never run out of ink. He may inspire and guide in real time.
This is why I warn people of not becoming too intimate with their Quran and instead understanding the Message, the Lore. If you read Nearness and Guidance you see that Quaran repeats the same Message over and over again in its passages. Believe and be good. Uphold or establish sound Judgment and Justice.
If you grasp God's intent with this Book then you see that it is just a Message to those who read it and it tries to make its readers realize its content is from God and why one should believe in Him.
In reality it does not more or less elaborate on the classical ten commandments and Torah (teachings) of Moses. It does it perfectly and is the optimal Guide as it claims itself. It made some minor changes to the behavior of people but that did also what was revealed to Jesus. And it is perfectly detailed and Quran states that too so it does certainly not lie.
Reading The Book with an open mind and by help from inspiration of God and Guidance then you will know 100% of the Message and in fact more than you need to know really. Hadithists claim the opposite but they are the modern polytheists. Their gods are all the objects around them which the believe will be beneficial to them in the end or their master imams and clerics.
God bless you
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Man of faith I agree with you many points where it is clear that Allah is eternal and over all showing us his signs every single day. So one would conclude that the Quran could only go so far .
All you say might be true but I sort of see it a bit different in terms of the Quran . human beings are used on doing the same thing over and over we call it repetition , have you noticed how every book on the ever written on the planet has been given a certain structure to follow , and how most books follow the same structure , look up this book with the title " the hero whith a thousand faces " . Man has been doing the same thing over and over stuck in a rut . And man seem to enjoy the same story over and over but evey time we have a different hero . But when we look at the Quran , there is no structure , stories in different form and stories that do not have a uniform begging middle and end as if so mixed up . Yet there is meaning to it . Still most of its meaning is dynamic . Have you not asked your self that we are looking at a book that we know it had been there for generations . And still are looking at the meaning and deducing different answers every time because we have different intellects . I don't think of the Quran as uniform and with one main theme. I think it is very dynamic , as if only giving us what is right at the right time . The theme we see in it is very unstable for it is constantly changing . Like look at all those words that can be understood in many ways and every time it changes how we look at the whole book. We see in it what we think and what we know is right in our judgement . Modern man can explain it in ways no one could emagine a few hundred years ago . Do you think this was done by accident and those before us could not see it because they did not have an open mind. Or is it that the Quran is a book of merci and in being so it can be for any one . Even hadeathers with all their commitment to something else can not refuse that this book is supreme , they only choose to take other things with it . Their understanding is not as flexible but they still have high regard for the book. Some one will look at the Quran and say hey you don't get the point ? Because he sees so much a different picture . I think that both are right there is no evil here , never the less who does something wrong will be judged . I don't agree with hadeethers but I think that they use Quran as well. Some of them are not so bad . As some Christians and some Jews are good people . We cannot be prejudice . You will only see as much as you can , after all we are only human.
That is why there is no wrong or right here , but a teacher that has been evolving with man for centuries .
I have sensed here at the forum how we want to prove each other right and wrong but the truth is all are right if they are taking the Quran as a teacher even the hadeathera or the Christians or the Jews . All is the same . This a book for humanity and we are all different . That is the magnificence of it . Remember I am not saying you are wrong for all I have said means that you are right as well.
Peace to all. -
Does the Quran need a "mu3jam" or dictionary to be interpreted?
I think If i refer back to the dictionary the "Mu3jam" then the "Mu3jam" would control my Quran,that is why i don't like to take any thing beside the Quran to Explain Quran.
Why not??
Yeah maybe diacritic somewhat help non-english speaker to read Arabic, but somewhat can misslead the reader.
Some members in here even still dispute if "Muhammad" is a name of person or not, just because the word with tanwin appear in 4829??I still don't understand "Quran explain Quran", please give me an example if necessary.
The originial Quran is in Sacred tablet (8522), sent down in Arabic/human language (122).
Arabic is a communication language between me and the Quran, since God sent down It in Arabic.
But Arabic knowlege is not a guarantee to reach the SalvationPeace
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It is eah of us who interprets Qur'an and understands Qur'an and Qur'an is explained by everything that exist and from which WE are able to gain knowledge and understanding. The Qur'an is nto separate from existence but a book on existence and being. If we get from the Qur'an something that clashes with reality, we have done something wrong in our observation, study or reflection or reasoning. Nothing is separate from anything else therefore the grand vision we get must be coherent, consistent. It is not we have made some mistake. Of course, we do them all the time and life is a time to understand in learn.
Salaam
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as i have said before ,it is not wrong to look at a dictionary .
no wrong or right here,we are not going to find one definite answer ,but we put the question do we need to refer back or can we actually derive a different meaning if we don't.that does not mean that the conflicting meaning is wrong ,this is like saying my understanding is right and every one else's is wrong .
this is not how it works.
the reason why i brought this subject up is because some words in the quran could get different meanings and would not conflict with the other ayas.
now if this can happen then is it wrong? or can we approach the Quran in a new mentality a mentality that is not rigid to the meaning we always knew.
i was asked to give an example (there are a lot of them) in the Quran,where one can really deduce a different meaning with out causing a real conflict to the structure or the words in the Quran.
that would open up another topic,(that i don't know much about) and would be how IBN ARABI looked at the quran.
IBN arabi deduced meaning for letters as well.he would not only go as far as explaining some words but would give letters some meaning.
and that would even give the Quran more interpretation in our modern world. any thing that does not cause conflict mathematically sort of speak with the quran then it would work ,for it falls under logical sequence.
meaning if i find a relation between certain letters in the quran and that relation does not conflict then that relation could have meaning beyond what is said.
i am not trying to make it more complex but the quran is really very unique ,sort of one big big puzzle that we cannot fully decipher .
as for the example i am about to give ,for instance we take the word "saq" meaning a foot or leg for most people ,hey this when read in the quran seems more like to mean eye lids.
so you put the meaning into the test and it holds.deducing that maybe i can say that saq means eye lids after all.
now the grammar that we use to define arabic is important but it can only go so far ,for it is not set in stone.it might rule the sounds but it does not rule the meanings ,because all the grammar does is use a lexicon or a dictionary (history) as an example ,and that on its own might limit the understanding of the Quran.
i am not saying it is wrong again ,to a lot of people this might seem sacred.but for how i see and i am free to look at this in which ever angle i see fit,i see it as very limiting and not open to interpretation.
one could even argue what is the real meanig for the word arabic, does it mean an arabic language or does it mean ,a complete language , this was stated by pazuzu earlier ,and why yes and why not if so?
sorry if i offend any one here.
it is just a thought
peace.