Hello!

unknownuser

welcome

Novice

Greetings and Peace, all group

My wife is also a monotheistic Christian.

I'm curious as to your definition of Messiah, but that is probably a topic for another thread--and only if you wish.

Indeed, labels do not matter; monotheism and striving towards good should suffice, ISA.

262 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them believes in GOD and the Last Day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve.

May the Lord bless you and keep you.
May the Lord make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you.
May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

@Socinus welcome

@ Abdul-Hadi
Salam brother
262 is concerning those who believed in God and did good deeds before the time of Muhammad since past tense is used as AAMANU and AMALA. Most of the translations use present tense for these words.

Sahih International
Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans - those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

May Allah help us in understanding His guidance.
Peace

socinus

I'm curious as to your definition of Messiah, but that is probably a topic for another thread--and only if you wish.

I'll give you a brief answer here and if you still want to talk about it we can make another thread.

Messiah means 'anointed'. The term (mashiach) is applied in the Bible to those anointed with oil kings and priests. 'The' Messiah is simply Israel's expected King who will bring in an idyllic golden age. It will be as though God is ruling in the form of a man.

This is Jesus. He is not God; but he is God's exalted agent on Earth. So he is called 'the son of God', the 'word of God', etc. The Word of God is just God's divine self-expression. It is one of God's attributes personified. You see this in the Old Testament with personified Wisdom, and in the works of Philo with the Word (Logos). Jesus embodies this attribute (figuratively, not literally) because he reveals the nature and will of God in the most perfect way.

There were many Jewish traditions about Messiah. Some said that the sort of Messiah Israel would get, would depend on their conduct. If they are righteous, they will get a conquering king. If they are sinful, they will get a suffering servant. This was meant to reconcile the different pictures of Messiah in the Old Testament.

As a Christian I believe that this mystery is solved by observing that the work of Messiah is not yet finished. He has begun a good work in the hearts of believers, by the power of God's spirit, and he will come again to finish it. God will set all things under his feet, and through him, all the nations will truly be blessed.

Man_of_Faith

Peace socinus,

You have a strange opinion about Jesus. One I never had as a Christian. I believe Jesus was very strong in the Holy Spirit and like a powerhouse in that regard. Very much like someone in Star Wars who is strong in the "Force". But it was only because of God since He is our Sustainer. God said just like with Adam 'be' and he was in the womb of Mary. Pure perhaps, but human nonetheless.

Likely Jesus is a test of our likelihood of idolization since many people choose to deify him and treat him like a superhuman. He had some advantages over those who are not born like a spiritual powerhouse, but we can always grow in the Holy Spirit. Jesus could be a good example how a utopian Believer ought to be.

I take Jesus as a sign of how a purified Believer that has reached near 100% purity should be. And that is it since Jesus is just one man born righteous with tremendous support from God and the Holy Spirit from scratch.

God bless you

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

@socinus handshake

Sure, let's start another thread to discuss the meaning of Messiah.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606240.msg347363#msg347363

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

@Socinus welcome

@ Abdul-Hadi
Salam brother
262 is concerning those who believed in God and did good deeds before the time of Muhammad since past tense is used as AAMANU and AMALA. Most of the translations use present tense for these words.

Sahih International
Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans - those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

May Allah help us in understanding His guidance.
Peace

What is with the brackets?

I can't share your understanding. Look at 2153, which also uses the word man.

2153 O you who man, seek help through patience and through the contact prayer, GOD is with the patient ones.

Is it not clear that the word means believe? Further, look at 2177 which uses the word mana (also used in 262).

2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who mana in GOD and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Book, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the contact prayer, and who contributes towards purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of hardship and adversity and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous.

The word means believes. Even neglecting 262, 559, and 2217, it is clear that it is monotheism and not any particular label/religion/philosophy that counts.

4125 And who is better in the system than the one who submits himself to GOD, and he is a good doer, and he follows the creed of Abraham in monotheism? And GOD took Abraham as a friend.

10105 And set your face to the system of monotheism, and do not be of the polytheists.

3030 So establish yourself to the system of monotheism. It is the inclination that GOD has nurtured the people on. There is no changing in the creation of GOD. Such is the pure system, but most of the people do not know.

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

socinus

Man of Faith,

I mostly agree with your understanding of Jesus, though I would say that he is 100% pure.

I should clarify that a personification of an attribute is not a person. It is a literary device. Jesus is not literally an attribute of God. He is identified with personifications of them, but this is no more literal than the personifications themselves. I'm not sure I expressed that clearly before.

This is the standard Socinian position.

Peace.

SarahY

Where you come from is there many Socinians?

Also how are you viewed among other Christians? is there much interactions?

Just curious

Peace

socinus

SarahY

I am American. There are not a lot of Socinians here.

Socinianism is a theological position rather than a church or sect. It is sometimes called Unitarianism, because we believe in one God. However, this can be confusing because some Unitarians in history have denied that Mary conceived as a virgin. Socinians believe that Jesus was born of a virgin.

Socinianism is named for Faustus Socinus, an Italian unitarian. He was associated with a group called the Polish Brethren. Ironically, he was very influential among them, but did not become a member because of differing views on baptism. The Polish Brethren don't exist any more, but there are other groups with similar beliefs. They are all very small.

People with my beliefs are usually not seen as Christians by trinitarians. We are about as heretical as it is possible to be.

Peace.

Man_of_Faith

Peace socinus,

Thanks for your explanation. I did however not address Jesus in my previous post but the Believers who work for pureness and that he is a good way of measuring one's progress. Jesus righteousness I have no doubts about. He seems to be the only Prophet without sin because there was no greed or other evil tendencies in him. He was as devoted to God as a man can be. On the other hand, it is due to God and His spirit that Jesus did all that he did.

The common argument to act like a Christian is understandable.

And I doubt Jesus is going to come around again. But of course I would be happy if he did. Suppose he would cry by looking at the world now though.

God bless

mmkhan

Peace socinus,

Thanks for your explanation. I did however not address Jesus in my previous post but the Believers who work for pureness and that he is a good way of measuring one's progress. Jesus righteousness I have no doubts about. He seems to be the only Prophet without sin because there was no greed or other evil tendencies in him. He was as devoted to God as a man can be. On the other hand, it is due to God and His spirit that Jesus did all that he did.

The common argument to act like a Christian is understandable.

And I doubt Jesus is going to come around again. But of course I would be happy if he did. Suppose he would cry by looking at the world now though.

God bless

Peace Man of Faith,

For the red highlighted part above

1661
1661 And if Allah were to seize the people for their wrongdoing, He would not have left upon the earth any creature, but He defers them for a specified term. And when their term has come, they will not remain behind an hour, nor will they precede.

You can also take a look at 3545.

May Allah's blessings be with you pr
mmKhan

Novice