Israel versus Ismael
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Salaam All
Let?s go for another provoking post.Isra-el
393 All the food was made lawful to the Children of Israel except what Israel forbade for himself before the Torah was sent down. Say ?Bring the Torah and recite it if you are truthful.?
172 And We gave Moses the Book and We made it a guidance for the Children of Israel ?Do not believe in any besides Me.?
173 The progeny of those whom We carried with Noah, he was a thankful servant.531 So God sent forth a raven to scratch the land and show him how to deal with the body of his brother. He said ?Woe to me! Am I not even able to be like this raven and deal with the body of my brother?? So he became of those who regretted.
532 It is because of this that We have decreed for the Children of Israel ?Anyone who kills a person for other than murder, or corruption in the land; then it is as if he has killed all the people! And whoever spares a life, then it is as if he has given life to all the people.? Our messengers had come to them with clarities, but many of them are, after this, still corrupting on the earth.Well, in 3-93 it is obvious that Israel was the type of guy who make ijtihad in deen and forbids things in name of god. Looks he was like a Mufti.
17-3 seems to indicates that Israel lived at least at era of Noah
5-32 seems to indicates that Israel was around in era of the ?two childs? of Adam.In 171 , Isra is used to mean something like travel by night.
In fact root sr mean secret. Isra is in the form Ifaal so Isra seems to indicate a meaning of ?making things be secret?.
It is the same weight/form than Ismaa-el. Ismaael seems to indicate a meaning of ?making things be is samaa?. Samaa means hear/listen
Suffix El means for me people even if rabbinic teachings points to meaning of God.
Israel means then ?people who make things secret?
Ismael means then ?people who make thing listened?Applied to words of God, meaning of Israel and Ismael is obvious.
The reverse expulsion from paradise
From old testament, from Allah via by (bani) Israel, we have this story
1- Israel is the surname of Jacob. The surname was given by a mysterious guy (angel ot god himself) after a wrestling during an all night. The result of the wresting was a parity and Israel could mean ?who fight with God and stays strong?.
2- Israel stole his prophecy from his twin brother Esau, father of edomites, that is occidental people. Esau is same root as Issa (as brother Pazuzu said)
3- Father of Israel/Jacob, Alias Isaac, became inheritor of Abraham after the expulsion of Ismael.
4- Exode 4-22 says to that Israel is first newborn of god and his child.
5- Yeshua BIN NUN (letteraly Jesus son of the Nun) , named as successor of Moses by Moses himself, liberated Hebrews and installed them in the ?promised land?.As I explained before, for me, Yeshua bin NUN is the true Messiah even if his story was modified in old testament. He is the son of the the biblical prophetess Miram, sister of Aaron and daughter of Imran.
As I explained in an old thread, Taghut is the surname of Satan when he is at the maximum of his disobeying. The maximum is of course trying to take the place of Allah and teach his religion as it was from Allah.
930 The Yahood said ?OUZAIR is the son of God,? and the Nassara said ?The Messiah is the son of God.? Such is their utterances with their mouths, they imitate the sayings of those who rejected before them. God will fight them. They are deluded from the truth!
Compared to exodus 4-22; OUZAIR, alias Israel, is clearly opposed to the Messiah.
Compiling all before, we have the revenge of Satan in the the following reverse expulsion
Israel took place of Esau, father of edomites, who symbolise Issa ?father? of Christians. So Israel is the false Messiah.
Father of Israel, (so taghut), became father of the son of god (so God himself) after expulsing Ismael (people who listen to God).Is Israel a defined person?
I think no. Probably, after hearing for centuries that they are ?childs of Israel?, priest of Bani Israel took initiative to modify history to give to their believed ancestor the place they estimated right in the religion.
It is , I think, why Israel, in 5-32, seems to be in era of ?the two childs of Adam.? Where the first believer in the darkness killed his brother for religious motives.Interesting to note that during all history, Taghut changed religion to make his son (or his sons) inheritate the land promised by God to true believere (people of Ismaa).
Why there is no Bani Ismael in Quran ?
3340 Mohammed is not the AB of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. And God is fully aware of all things.
In Arabic, there is two different words for father AB and WALID and two different words for son (IBN and WALAD)
WALID and WALAD clearly points to biological lineage.
AB and IBN points to ?who is nourishing, educating?.
(http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605552.10)33-40 means that no Muslim eats from Muhammad said There is no Bani Muhammad as there is no BANI Ismael simply .because true believers eats directly from what God produces and take from Muhammad only from what he took from God.
With this understanding, in the deen, believers are only bani Allah and not Awlad of Allah.
Going back to 930, we can understand the apparent condemnation of saying that Messiah is IBN Allah just for the misleading meant by what who rejected before said (confusion between ibn and walad).Seems then that Israel and Ismael are two opposed concepts.
Bani Israel eats religion from what Israel produces (hearsays, false teachings) in name of God. Israel and Bani Israel is then quite the same meaning
Ismael eats religion only from God.Bani Israel are then Yahood in the meaning of people who were (and no more) guided (hada) by God. The Concept is not a Judaic concept but and Islamic concept. Sunnis, Chiites and other Islamic sects are clearly Bani Israel in the meaning that they mix words of God with words of their ancestors.
Is Ismael a defined person ?
1439 ?Praise be to God who has granted me to my old age Ismael and Isaac; my Lord is Hearer of the prayer.?
1954 And recall in the Book, Ishmael; he was truthful to his promise, and he was a messenger Nabiyan.At first sight, it seems that ismael is a defined person. I have no problem however to read problematic verses with understanding that Ismael is the group of person who eats deen only from Allah.
This would lead to review all the lineage of Abraham. Nowhere in quran it is said that Yaacoub is son of Isaac. No where in quran it is said that Ismael had sons. Brother Ayman mentioned the hypothesis that Lot was the child of Abraham who were to be sacrified.
Peace from Ismael.
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A most interesting post. With so many implications it may be difficult to handle and follow, but nonetheless very worthwhile.
I am starting to think that indeed Yosuah of the bile is indeed 3isa of he Qur'an. It fits in the skeleton of history we may surmise from the Qur'an and does get support (however undesired it may be) from the bible with a Yoshua who gets no mention in the Qur'an but which in the Qur'an description fits like a glove in content and timing.
Indeed this fight of Jacob with God, how can it be a proof of holiness? However interesting it may be on the other hand, because we, people, do struggle a lot with God. But indeed it does picture the two attitudes, struggling with God, and peacefully listening to god.
So, noshirk, taking up ishaq name, what do you make of it? what is its function?
It may be that Ismael be a type of person of community, but may be also there was some particular person by that name who was an example of such attitude, do you think?
Salaam
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A most interesting post. With so many implications it may be difficult to handle and follow, but nonetheless very worthwhile.
I am starting to think that indeed Yosuah of the bile is indeed 3isa of he Qur'an. It fits in the skeleton of history we may surmise from the Qur'an and does get support (however undesired it may be) from the bible with a Yoshua who gets no mention in the Qur'an but which in the Qur'an description fits like a glove in content and timing.
Indeed this fight of Jacob with God, how can it be a proof of holiness? However interesting it may be on the other hand, because we, people, do struggle a lot with God. But indeed it does picture the two attitudes, struggling with God, and peacefully listening to god.
So, noshirk, taking up ishaq name, what do you make of it? what is its function?
It may be that Ismael be a type of person of community, but may be also there was some particular person by that name who was an example of such attitude, do you think?
Salaam
Salaam Huruf
2133 Or were you present when death came to Jacob and he said to his sons ?Who shall you serve from after me?? They said ?Your god, and the god of your ABAA Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac; One god and to Him we submit.?
well, we have to consider the hypothesis that both isaac and jacob are sons of Abraham. First Isaac, then Jacob (11-71).
if ABAA in 2-133 cannot be took in the deen meaning, then it would point to nourishing in classical biological (and not descent) meaning
so sons of Jacob met probably abraham, and Isaac.It is difficult to admit that Jacob is son of Isaac (if we count about 20 years by generation).
for example, if we suppose that abraham had yaccob as son at 70, and if he lived until 100, he could have met son of Jacob.( ة
. .so root of isaac seems to point to something far or something destructed.
quran never mentionned a name of a child of isaac. Perhaps Isaac had no biological lineage and that can explain his name.
the meaning of far seems to not fit with 2-133. So the inversion (isaac was the expulsed by abraham) cannot hold. Isaac is always mentionned in good way by quran.in history of yusuf, there is no trace of childs of Isaac. No mention also of other brothers for Jacob (than Isaac?).
from name Isaac, i am now leaded to think that Isaac had no childs or that his lineage was "destructed".Allah aalam
Peace -
Salaam All
Well, in 3-93 it is obvious that Israel was the type of guy who make ijtihad in deen and forbids things in name of god. Looks he was like a Mufti.
Salaam,
Well to me it looks like you want so much Israel to be a bad guy/entity/whatever, that you read things in 393 which are not there.
From old testament, from Allah via by (bani) Israel, we have this story
From Allah ???
1- Israel is the surname of Jacob. The surname was given by a mysterious guy (angel ot god himself) after a wrestling during an all night. The result of the wresting was a parity and Israel could mean ?who fight with God and stays strong?.
2- Israel stole his prophecy from his twin brother Esau, father of edomites, that is occidental people. Esau is same root as Issa (as brother Pazuzu said)
3- Father of Israel/Jacob, Alias Isaac, became inheritor of Abraham after the expulsion of Ismael.
4- Exode 4-22 says to that Israel is first newborn of god and his child.
5- Yeshua BIN NUN (letteraly Jesus son of the Nun) , named as successor of Moses by Moses himself, liberated Hebrews and installed them in the ?promised land?.I am not sure what you have been drinking or using to believe in this nonsense.
As I explained before, for me, Yeshua bin NUN is the true Messiah even if his story was modified in old testament. He is the son of the the biblical prophetess Miram, sister of Aaron and daughter of Imran.
As I explained in an old thread, Taghut is the surname of Satan when he is at the maximum of his disobeying. The maximum is of course trying to take the place of Allah and teach his religion as it was from Allah.
RED rotfl
930 The Yahood said ?OUZAIR is the son of God,? and the Nassara said ?The Messiah is the son of God.? Such is their utterances with their mouths, they imitate the sayings of those who rejected before them. God will fight them. They are deluded from the truth!
Compared to exodus 4-22; OUZAIR, alias Israel, is clearly opposed to the Messiah.
Compiling all before, we have the revenge of Satan in the the following reverse expulsion
Israel took place of Esau, father of edomites, who symbolise Issa ?father? of Christians. So Israel is the false Messiah.
Father of Israel, (so taghut), became father of the son of god (so God himself) after expulsing Ismael (people who listen to God).seriously, is everything ok with you?
Is Israel a defined person?
I think no. Probably, after hearing for centuries that they are ?childs of Israel?, priest of Bani Israel took initiative to modify history to give to their believed ancestor the place they estimated right in the religion.
It is , I think, why Israel, in 5-32, seems to be in era of ?the two childs of Adam.? Where the first believer in the darkness killed his brother for religious motives.Interesting to note that during all history, Taghut changed religion to make his son (or his sons) inheritate the land promised by God to true believere (people of Ismaa).
Why there is no Bani Ismael in Quran ?
3340 Mohammed is not the AB of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. And God is fully aware of all things.
Why are you only concerned about Ismael? what about the other names, where is bani Ibrahim or bani Sulayman?
In Arabic, there is two different words for father AB and WALID and two different words for son (IBN and WALAD)
WALID and WALAD clearly points to biological lineage.
AB and IBN points to ?who is nourishing, educating?.
(http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605552.10)RED clearly not
33-40 means that no Muslim eats from Muhammad said There is no Bani Muhammad as there is no BANI Ismael simply .because true believers eats directly from what God produces and take from Muhammad only from what he took from God.
With this understanding, in the deen, believers are only bani Allah and not Awlad of Allah.
Going back to 930, we can understand the apparent condemnation of saying that Messiah is IBN Allah just for the misleading meant by what who rejected before said (confusion between ibn and walad).RED Looks like you totally lost it bro.
518Seems then that Israel and Ismael are two opposed concepts.
Bani Israel eats religion from what Israel produces (hearsays, false teachings) in name of God. Israel and Bani Israel is then quite the same meaning
Ismael eats religion only from God.Bani Israel are then Yahood in the meaning of people who were (and no more) guided (hada) by God. The Concept is not a Judaic concept but and Islamic concept. Sunnis, Chiites and other Islamic sects are clearly Bani Israel in the meaning that they mix words of God with words of their ancestors.
Is Ismael a defined person ?
1439 ?Praise be to God who has granted me to my old age Ismael and Isaac; my Lord is Hearer of the prayer.?
1954 And recall in the Book, Ishmael; he was truthful to his promise, and he was a messenger Nabiyan.At first sight, it seems that ismael is a defined person. I have no problem however to read problematic verses with understanding that Ismael is the group of person who eats deen only from Allah.
This would lead to review all the lineage of Abraham. Nowhere in quran it is said that Yaacoub is son of Isaac. No where in quran it is said that Ismael had sons. Brother Ayman mentioned the hypothesis that Lot was the child of Abraham who were to be sacrified.
Peace from Ismael.
Peace from Bender peace
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salaam Bender
i thank you very much for your intellectual compliments.
We, ismael, bani Allah and messengers of Allah have always been treated as mad persons.
5152 Likewise, when a messenger went to those before them, they said ?A magician, or crazy.?Now, for taghut, see here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605541.msg33184for bani why not bani abraham and bani suleyman
bani is used in Quran only for bani adam and bani israel.as you know, if AB mean who nourish, Rabb mean who educates, bani points also builded/constructed.
BANI adam are built from dam (blood).In the spiritual dimension, to be bani something else than Allah is simply shirk. The only ones you can be a bani of them are the biological entities that brought you food and take of you when you were child. You are bani of them biologically in the alimentary meaning while you have only one WALID, that is the guy that gave you part of is DNA.
Distinguishing betwen bilogical ancetors and the unique religious RABB is , i think, the main difference between BANI Israel and Ismael.
there is a similar parrallel with OM (mother) and OMMA (motherhood) and the OMMI (like our prophet). Om a venter and a Rahm. Venter has disgesting meaning, destruction meaning while rahm is creating life.
it is why, for example, we have the expression BATNI MEKKATA (venter of Mecca). Taghut is making his digestion there after sucking/aspiring (meaning of MAKKA) part of BANI Israel.Concerning 518,
you can se in 517, 5-72, 5-73 how Allah is clear when he want to say that something is rejection.518 And the YAHOOD and the NASSARA said ?We are the ABNAA of God, and His loved ones.? Say ?Then why does He punish you for your sins?? No, you are merely BACHAR/Humans beings which He has created. He forgives whom He pleases, and He punishes whom He pleases. And to God is the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is in-between, and to Him is the destiny.
in 5-18, Allah is dealing with Yahood and NAssara and he could (perhaps) have added my true abnaa are muslim/moominins/ismael. 5-18 would not have lossed coherence.
Other than muslim/moominins/ismael are retrogradated to Bachar beings. BACHAT is a clear biological/not spiritual entity. BACHAR means covered by skin.So, dear Bender covered by skin, there is no contradiction in your contradiction.
i have to add something. of course, filiation to GOD is puely spiritual.
NASSARA are to ANSAR what YAHOOD and ALLATHINA HADOOU (who were guided) are to MOHTADIN (who are GUIDED)352 So when Jesus felt their rejection, he said ?Who are my ANSAR to God?? The disciples said ?We are the ANSAR of God, we believe in God and we bear witness that we have submitted.?
Seems that in era of Issa, NASSARA were ANSAR. Like in era of Yacob, Moses, Yahood were Mohtadin.
We have also ANSAR in 9-100 (applied to co-supporters of GOD with Muhammad).
in 2170 ANSAR is opposed to wickeh/injust people (DHALIMOUN).so the past form of YAHOOD and NASSARA seems to indicate that those people are no more bani Allah but bani Israel, that people taking other Arbabs (educators, abs), that is their "oulemas" monks and mainly ancestors.
Dear Bachar,
i understand tour reaction. 2 months ago, i was explaining to a christian that is totally forbiiden by coran to say that we were son of God.
But it is the fault/thanks to brother mmmkhan (http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605552.0) who pointed to the possible distinction between ibn and walad.But if you accept that you can be IBN Allah, that perhaps we will be brothers in deen
911 If they repent, and they hold the contact prayer, and they contribute towards purification, then they are your brothers in the DEEN. We explain the revelations for a people who know.but if we became brothers in deen, who is the AB ?
Do you reject to be my brother in deen because i say that Allah is our AB ?
it is not very smart from my point of view.
Ismael is a spiritual brotherhood with only one spiritual AB and RABB.
But seems that other peoples claim to be that brotherhood. Another theft from Taghut ???now, more seriously
1954 And recall in the Book, Ishmael; he was truthful to his promise, and he was a messenger prophet.
1439 ?Praise be to God who has granted me to my old age Ishmael and Isaac; my Lord is Hearer of the prayer.?The fact that ismael is a brotherhood who began with Abraham is still an hypothesis for me.
i just want to see arguments of free-minders against this.Peace
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Salaam All
Post forbidden for under 18. Sexual content.
http//img.agoravox.fr/local/cache-vignettes/L620xH282/ja1bis-5c276.png
http//img.agoravox.fr/local/cache-vignettes/L620xH291/ja3-10a90.pngfrech readers can see images and complete astudy here http//www.agoravox.fr/tribune-libre/article/jacob-israel-naissance-d-un-nom-141746
This is Genesis 32, 24 to 32. The famous wrestling in wich Jacob became Israel
24And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 25And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was strained, as he wrestled with him. 26And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel for thou hast striven with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel for, said he, I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. 31And the sun rose upon him as he passed over Penuel, and he halted upon his thigh. 32Therefore the children of Israel eat not the sinew of the hip which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew of the hip.
i recommand this link http//biblehub.com/lexicon/genesis/32-32.htm
for a word by word explanation.
the famous "nervus" could be the penis of Jacob.Some rabbis (nehemiah here https//sites.google.com/site/chiouraviges/Home/bereshit/vayishlah-5772) made the exegis that the angel snatched testicles of Jacob and that after that Jacob had no more childs.
i will not traduce all (my sources are in french), however, it seems that the famous wrestling had a sexual content.
In other words Israel became name of a prophet after fucking the angels.
In wikipedia page of Jacob, we fin this
Jacob then demanded a blessing, and the being declared that from then on, Jacob would be called , Israel (Yisrael, meaning "one that struggled with the divine angel" (Josephus), "one who has prevailed with God" (Rashi), "a man seeing God" (Whiston), "he will rule as God" (Strong), or "a prince with God" (Morris), from Hebrew , "prevail", "have power as a prince". Jacob asked the being's name, but he refused to answer. Afterwards Jacob named the place Penuel (Penuwel, Peniyel, meaning "face of God", saying "I have seen God face to face and lived." Because the terminology is ambiguous ("el" in Yisrael) and inconsistent, and because this being refused to reveal his name, there are varying views as to whether he was a man, an angel, or God. Josephus uses only the terms "angel", "divine angel", and "angel of God", describing the struggle as no small victory. According to Rashi, the being was the guardian angel of Esau himself, sent to destroy Jacob before he could return to the land of Canaan. Trachtenberg theorized that the being refused to identify itself for fear that, if its secret name was known, it would be conjurable by incantations. Literal Christian interpreters like Henry M. Morris say that the stranger was "God Himself and, therefore, Christ in His preincarnate state", citing Jacob's own evaluation and the name he assumed thereafter, "one who fights victoriously with God", and adding that God had appeared in the human form of the Angel of the Lord to eat a meal with Abraham in Genesis 18. Geller wrote that "in the context of the wrestling bout, the name implies that Jacob won this supremacy, linked to that of God's, by a kind of theomachy."Peace
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salaam Bender
i thank you very much for your intellectual compliments.
We, ismael, bani Allah and messengers of Allah have always been treated as mad persons.
5152 Likewise, when a messenger went to those before them, they said ?A magician, or crazy.?Salaam,
Do you know what messenger of Allah means?
I guess you know, but in case you don not know then let me give you my view.
A messenger of Allah is one who carries the message send by Allah.
Now tell me, did Allah send you with the openings post?Now, for taghut, see here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605541.msg33184thx for the link, much much much better then this topic.
for bani why not bani abraham and bani suleyman
bani is used in Quran only for bani adam and bani israel.Not totally correct.
But my question was why do you concentrate on Ismael why not Yahya or Harun or Ishaak?as you know, if AB mean who nourish, Rabb mean who educates, bani points also builded/constructed.
BANI adam are built from dam (blood).BLUE animals are also bani adam?
In the spiritual dimension, to be bani something else than Allah is simply shirk. The only ones you can be a bani of them are the biological entities that brought you food and take of you when you were child. You are bani of them biologically in the alimentary meaning while you have only one WALID, that is the guy that gave you part of is DNA.
Not sure if I understood what you were saying but do you mean Firaun is the DNA father of Musa?
Distinguishing betwen bilogical ancetors and the unique religious RABB is , i think, the main difference between BANI Israel and Ismael.
you think? based on what exactly?
there is a similar parrallel with OM (mother) and OMMA (motherhood) and the OMMI (like our prophet). Om a venter and a Rahm. Venter has disgesting meaning, destruction meaning while rahm is creating life.
it is why, for example, we have the expression BATNI MEKKATA (venter of Mecca). Taghut is making his digestion there after sucking/aspiring (meaning of MAKKA) part of BANI Israel.not sure what you want to say
Concerning 518,
you can se in 517, 5-72, 5-73 how Allah is clear when he want to say that something is rejection.518 And the YAHOOD and the NASSARA said ?We are the ABNAA of God, and His loved ones.? Say ?Then why does He punish you for your sins?? No, you are merely BACHAR/Humans beings which He has created. He forgives whom He pleases, and He punishes whom He pleases. And to God is the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is in-between, and to Him is the destiny.
in 5-18, Allah is dealing with Yahood and NAssara and he could (perhaps) have added my true abnaa are muslim/moominins/ismael. 5-18 would not have lossed coherence.
Other than muslim/moominins/ismael are retrogradated to Bachar beings. BACHAT is a clear biological/not spiritual entity. BACHAR means covered by skin.So, dear Bender covered by skin, there is no contradiction in your contradiction.
930
If I say noshirk is ibnu Allah then how do you judge it?
If Isa ibnu Meryem is NOT ibnu Allah then what makes you special?i have to add something. of course, filiation to GOD is puely spiritual.
NASSARA are to ANSAR what YAHOOD and ALLATHINA HADOOU (who were guided) are to MOHTADIN (who are GUIDED)352 So when Jesus felt their rejection, he said ?Who are my ANSAR to God?? The disciples said ?We are the ANSAR of God, we believe in God and we bear witness that we have submitted.?
Seems that in era of Issa, NASSARA were ANSAR. Like in era of Yacob, Moses, Yahood were Mohtadin.
We have also ANSAR in 9-100 (applied to co-supporters of GOD with Muhammad).
in 2170 ANSAR is opposed to wickeh/injust people (DHALIMOUN).so the past form of YAHOOD and NASSARA seems to indicate that those people are no more bani Allah but bani Israel, that people taking other Arbabs (educators, abs), that is their "oulemas" monks and mainly ancestors.
not sure what this has to do with the subject.
Dear Bachar,
D
i understand tour reaction. 2 months ago, i was explaining to a christian that is totally forbiiden by coran to say that we were son of God.
But it is the fault/thanks to brother mmmkhan (http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605552.0) who pointed to the possible distinction between ibn and walad.You can not blame or thank MmKhan for what you have written, for each his own.
But if you accept that you can be IBN Allah, that perhaps we will be brothers in deen
I can not accept what I have NO right of.
911 If they repent, and they hold the contact prayer, and they contribute towards purification, then they are your brothers in the DEEN. We explain the revelations for a people who know.
but if we became brothers in deen, who is the AB ?
Do you reject to be my brother in deen because i say that Allah is our AB ?
I believe you meant to say RAB instead of AB
it is not very smart from my point of view.
Ismael is a spiritual brotherhood with only one spiritual AB and RABB.
But seems that other peoples claim to be that brotherhood. Another theft from Taghut ???now, more seriously
1954 And recall in the Book, Ishmael; he was truthful to his promise, and he was a messenger prophet.
1439 ?Praise be to God who has granted me to my old age Ishmael and Isaac; my Lord is Hearer of the prayer.?The fact that ismael is a brotherhood who began with Abraham is still an hypothesis for me.
i just want to see arguments of free-minders against this.Peace
Well at least you have some arguments from a fundamentalist yes
Salaam,
Bender -
Salaam Bachar Bender,
BLUE animals are also bani adam?
Not excluded.
All humans are a combination of bilogical entity and a spiritual entity.
That is a very strong duality concept in Quran.According to evolution, it seems that we are, biologically, bani autralopitecus and bani apes and monkeys.
There is two rahm (matrix). The first one is the one of our bilogical mother. The second one is the one of in the "hands" of the rahman (rahm expulsor) and the rahim (in the rahm receiver).
There is two OM (mother). biological OM we don't choose and spiritual OM we choose to constituate an OMMA. There is the unchoosed brotherhood (the bilogical) and the choosed brotherhood (spiritual).
Allah put from his spirit in adam. Seems also that chaytan put something there.
Brother ayman wrote that Jinn is the human imagination. I think that Jinn is the mix spirit of Allah and spirit of Chaytan who have to choose his spiritual filiation.In this forum, there is a bachar, bani adam, who choose to name his Jinn Bender.
He is here as a Jinn.Jinn is the entity that animal don't have.
Seems then that Animal+Jinn=Biological entity+spiritual entity=HumanThe funny guy called Chaytan want us to make confusion between biological lineage and spirituel lineage. Ancestors cult; like salafism, sunnisme and other religions, are samples of this confusion.
Whatever is lineage of bachar bender, jinn of bender has one rahm and have to recognize his ab and brotherhood of spirit. He is born spiritually orphan.
Do you know what messenger of Allah means?
Now tell me, did Allah send you with the openings post?Messenger is whoever has message or a task from God.
17-15
17-16
Messengers of Allah are so numerous.
But Chaytan and his falses Messiahs (Israel & co) always wanted us to believe that prophethood is closed.
Simple Bachar, as Pavlov did with dogs, have always been educated to reject any new messenger of Allah.We, people of Ismael, are all messengers. As our name mean, "Listen to god" is our Message.
Thanks to Muhammad, seal of prophet but not our ab spiritually, we have an entire sealed book from Allah, our ab, to transmit. All people of Ismael have to says "listen to quran", make your own connection (Salat) with your spiritual Abb and Rabb, and never take us as Abb and never try to be our bani.So as noshirk, i disown and repudiate All bani noshirk all together.
But as noshirk, i believe it is my duty to desacralize bullshits and help my brothers in deen to meditate on words of our Ab, with total free mind, away from science of Bani Israel.By Rassool Allah , Ibn Allah, member of Ismael brotherhood, noshirk
beware however of Nabi noshirk. He is not exempted of madness in his exegesisPeace from Ismael.
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Salaam All again
Let'go for quite no provokating linguisticsFatherhood
( ة
( ة
.( ة
( ة
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( ة
clear from this that Ab and ibn and bani point to building, educating and so on.
While root wld and dervatives points to lineageMotherhood|/b] Roots OM
/ ( ة
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.( ة
. . .
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.. * . .
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..
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to be continuated
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Now Verses using root Amaton
7-157
7-158
62-2
3-75
3-20
2-78
22-52
16-103
25-4
25-5
93-7
43-22
12-45
3-104
16-120
16-121
2-124
9-12
17-71
28-5
2-221we were told by scholars that Amaton is a slave and that Ommi mean an ignorant that don't know how to read and how to write.
analphatisme have absolutely no relation with root OM.Amaton is clearly a "women" in a omma. People sharing same Om is a brotherhood like people in the same Omma.
So what mean nabi Ommi sent to people of Ommiyouns ?my understanding is that Muhammad was a wise man. As 16-103 shows, he was studying religion with a "teacher" in aajami (not arabic) language. In Quran, both marriage and comarcial contracts have to be written down.
According to my understanding, Quran was revealad in one night, that is leylatou el qadr.
Exception is, for me, to be done to sourate 9, al tauba, which seems to me have been revealed alone (no bismillah, clear reference to sourate before, begiing with a common declaation of Allah and His rassol). El tauba seems like a political and military sourate after that hypocryts and idolaters were showed to Muhammad at their real facein this verse
3350 O prophet, We have made lawful for you the wives to whom you have already given their dowries, and those who are maintained by your oath, as granted to you by God; and the daughters of the brothers of your father, and the daughters of the sisters of your father, and the daughters of the brothers of your mother, and the daughters of the sisters of your mother - those who emigrated with you. Also, the believing woman who had decreed herself to the prophet, the prophet may marry her if he wishes, as a privilege given only to you and not to the believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses and those who are maintained by their oaths. This is to spare you any hardship. God is Forgiver, Merciful.whe can see that hijra was before revelation.
That simply mean, for me, that the wise, educated, knowing how to write and read, Muhammad, Rassol Allah, begun to constituate his Omma before receiveing Quran.
So Ommi and Ommiyouns are people in the path of constituating a new omma. It is clear for me that Muhammad rejectd bullshits of his ancestors before Quran. He was already able to constituate a new Omma based on new aspirations (political, religious..).
Quran was the gift of Allah for that Omma (muttaqoun of 22) who was already searching for Allah.i have difficulties to imagine Allah sending Quran to an idolater who was turning around the kaaba stone filled by statues. Impossible for me.
Muhammad, like founder of Ismael Brotherhood, Abraham, made his spiritual path towards Allah before any revelation.
Muhammad, the wise, the educated,like Abraham, became muslim before receiving Quran leylatou el qadrPeace from Ismael