-=[ Correction/Modification to FM Translation of AlQuraan ]=-

newrevert

So the version of the quran i downloaded from here yesterday i will need to updatr once all the modifications are complete?

mmkhan

Salaam admins,

Please take a look at the translation of 2221 and make necessary corrections or amendments.

If you look at the Arabic words, both words are not same. One is tAnkihoo and other is tUnkihoo, so there must be a difference. The FM translation does not show any difference. Please take a look at other translations which shows the difference.

tAnkihoo = Do not marry.
tUnkihoo = Do not give in marriage.

This change is suggested by brother Abdul-Hadi, which can be seen here.

Thanks.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan

Noon_waalqalami

Salaam admins,

Please take a look at the translation of 2221 and make necessary corrections or amendments.

If you look at the Arabic words, both words are not same. One is tAnkihoo and other is tUnkihoo, so there must be a difference. The FM translation does not show any difference. Please take a look at other translations which shows the difference.

tAnkihoo = Do not marry.
tUnkihoo = Do not give in marriage.

This change is suggested by brother Abdul-Hadi, which can be seen here.

Thanks.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan

Peace mmKhan -- which part of the word is ?give??

(222114)
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=4228

With dialectical marks on 2nd letter there may be a slight difference in recitation with respect to who is being addressed female/male otherwise same word and people are free to marry whom they like with a warning?

2221

Address to males?
and not thou marry yeh the idolatresses (f. plural) until believe and surely handmaiden (f. singular) believer better from idolatress (f. singular) and supposing liked her you

Address to females?
and not thou marry yeh the idolaters (m. plural) until believe they and servant (m. singular) believer better from idolater (m. singular) and supposing liked him you

Address to general ?
indeed those calling to the fire and the god invites to the garden/paradise and the forgiveness by permission his and makes clear signs/verses his to the humankind that may they those remembering

Nazzam

Salaam admins,

Please take a look at the translation of 2221 and make necessary corrections or amendments.

If you look at the Arabic words, both words are not same. One is tAnkihoo and other is tUnkihoo, so there must be a difference. The FM translation does not show any difference. Please take a look at other translations which shows the difference.

tAnkihoo = Do not marry.
tUnkihoo = Do not give in marriage.

This change is suggested by brother Abdul-Hadi, which can be seen here.

Thanks.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan

Active and passive.

Do not marry, laa tankihu

Do not let get married, laa tunkihu

Novice

As far as I could recall
Tankihoo is from Nakaha Form I verb means to marry
Tunkihoo is from Ankaha Form IV verb means to give in marriage

May Allah help us in understanding His book.

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

Current/proposed.

A few possible edits come to mind. Reasoning is provided by showing the same word in other verses.

6118 So eat from that on which the name of God has been mentioned , if you indeed believe in His revelations.

6118 So eat from that on which the name of GOD has been remembered , if you indeed believe in His revelations.

In 6118 and 2236, "mention/mentioned" is used instead of "remember/remembered". But 3135, 774, 7205 make should make it clear that the correct words are "remember/remembered".

3135 And those who, if they commit lewdness, or wrong themselves, they remember GOD and seek forgiveness for their sins. And who can forgive the sins except GOD? And they do not persist in what they have done while they know.

774 "And remember that He made you successors after 'Aad, and He established you in the land so that you make palaces on its plains, and you carve homes in the mountains. So remember the grace of GOD, and do not roam the earth as corrupters."

7205 And remember your Lord within yourself, in humility and in reverence; and without loudness in words, during the morning and the evening. And do not be of the careless ones.

2236 And the plump livestock, We have made them for you to be among the symbols of GOD; you will have benefit in them. So mention the name of GOD upon them in succession; then, once their sides have become still, you may eat from them and feed with them the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you, that you may be thankful.

2236 And the plump livestock, We have made them for you to be among the symbols of GOD; you will have benefit in them. So remember the name of GOD upon them in succession; then, once their sides have become still, you may eat from them and feed with them the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you, that you may be thankful.

7030 Except around their spouses or those maintained by their oaths, there is no blame.

7030 Except around their pairs or those maintained by their oaths, there is no blame.

In 7030, azwjihim is translated as spouses, but in 6143, the same word is translated as pairs. Spouses does not fit into 6143, but pairs fits into 7030.

6143 Eight in pairs from the lambs two, and from the goats two. Say "Is it the two males that He forbade or the two females, or what the wombs of the two females bore? Inform me if you are truthful!"

416 And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall trouble them. If they repent and amend , then leave them alone. GOD is Redeemer, Merciful.

416 And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall trouble them. If they repent and improve , then leave them alone. GOD is Redeemer, Merciful.

Amend and improve are synonymous choices for 416, but improve also fits better in 472. Relieves does not fit into 416; improve/improves is suggested instead of amend/relieves.

472 And those who believe and do good works, and believe in what was sent down to Mohammed, for it is the truth from their Lord, He cancels for them their sins, and relieves their concern.

472 And those who believe and do good works, and believe in what was sent down to Mohammed, for it is the truth from their Lord, He cancels for them their sins, and improves their concern.

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

2202 These will have a benefit for what they have earned; and GOD is swift in reckoning.

2202 These will have a share for what they have earned; and GOD is swift in reckoning.

In 2202, benefit is used instead of share as in 4220. This may dangerously change the meaning of the verse!

4220 Whoever desires the harvest of the Hereafter, We will increase for him his harvest. And whoever seeks the harvest of this world, We will give him therefrom, and he will have no share in the Hereafter.

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

...

In 7030, azwjihim is translated as spouses, but in 6143, the same word is translated as pairs. Spouses does not fit into 6143, but pairs fits into 7030.

6143 Eight in pairs from the lambs two, and from the goats two. Say "Is it the two males that He forbade or the two females, or what the wombs of the two females bore? Inform me if you are truthful!"

...

-[

I made an accidental error in copypasta; the word in 6143 is NOT azwjihim but IS azwjin. Beg pardon for any confusion that this might have caused.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

NielsJacob

Peace

Can the soul die?

I see many times its translated as the death of the soul.
for example 3/145, 3/185, 6/151, 9/85
But is that possible?
I see other translation use the term "human" or "life" in these cases.

Or maybe use depart instead of die.

NielsJacob

Peace

I have one more.

I think there is a mistake in the Inheritance directions

Its in 411. ......"If they are only females, two or more".... I think it has to be "if there are only female, more than two"

I dont understand arabic at all, just it could be nice with a correct translation conserning the inheritage laws, since here there is a lot of confusing.
Also some claiming that this law is with faults. I think it has to do with the translation.

Maybe consult with Noon waalqalami concerning translation this vers. See http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg300735#msg300735

NielsJacob

Peace

I see now that the changes has been made in the new version, regarding the two women +
I used the one at http//www.quranix.net/

runninglikezebras

Please restore the hadith contaminated verse 781 to it's original meaning. As elaborated in http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606746.msg355560#msg355560

Same thing for 2929 it does not have any reference to sexual acts as elaborated http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606746.msg355562#msg355562

si_di

Salam all,

254"And Moses said to his people "O my people, you have wronged your souls by taking the calf, so repent to your Maker, and kill yourselves. That is better for you with your Maker, so He would forgive you. He is the Forgiving, the Merciful."

the word q-t-l is wrongly used here for killing instead of to better,work on oneself it is against the law of scripture to kill oneself.And it doesn#t make sense for god to forgive them after they killed themself.

stay connected

runninglikezebras

The Story of Lut in Quran - A Quranist Translation

Quranic references

Lot's prophecy Quran 26161, 780?84, 1567?77, 26160?168, 2928?31
Angels appear to Lot Quran 1177?80, 1561?66
Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah Quran 1182, 26169?175, 2754?58
Lot's wife Quran 1181, 1560, 2932
Praise for Lot Quran 37133?138, 5435

References in Bible

Genesis chapters 13,14 and 19
Deuteronomy 29
Psalm 838
Luke 1728-29,32
Peter 27

Accusation 26161-169, 2755, 780-81, 1572, 2929

Analysis of the accusation and charges made

26160

kadhabat (denied) qawmu (the people) lin (of Lut) l-mur'salna (the Messengers, male plural)

26165

atatna (do you approach) l-dhuk'rna (the males) mina (among) l-lamna (the worlds)

26166

watadharna (and you leave) m (what) khalaqa (created) lakum (for you) rabbukum (your Lord) min (of) azwjikum (your mates)
bal (Nay) anyum (you) qawmum (a people) dna (transgressing)

2755

a-innakum (indeed you) latatna (you approach) l-rijla (the men) shahwatan (with desire) min (from) dni (instead of) l-nisi (the women)

780

walan (And Lut) idh (when) qla (he said) liqawmihi (to his people) atatna (do you approach) l-fishata (immorality) m (not) sabaqakum (has preceded you) bih (therein) min (any) ahadin (one) mina (of) l-lamna (the worlds?)

781

innakum (indeed you) latatna (you approach) l-rijla (the men) shahwatan (with desire) min (from) dni (instead of) l-nisi (the women)
bal (Nay,) antum (you) qawmum (a people) mus'rifna (who commit excesses)

2929
a-innakum (indeed, you) latatna (approach) l-rijla (the men) wataqana (and you cut off) l-sabla (Gods path) watatna (and commit) f (in) ndkumu (your meetings/encounters) l-munkara (evil?)

Summary of the accusation charges made by God

Denying the people of Lut the Messengers (2660, 2929)
Rejecting Luts offer and still being drawn to the men (26165, 26166, 781)
Unprecedented immorality (780, 2929)

Identification of the male subjects in the accusation

2929 speaks of "a-innakum (indeed, you) latatna (approach) l-rijla (the men) wataqana (and you cut off) l-sabla (Gods path)".
So rijal in 2929 is a group of men being cut off, seperated from Lut. 26160 reveals the rijal mentioned in 2929 are the Messengers as it states the crowd denied Luts People the Messengers.
Denying Luts people the Messengers is cutting one of from l-sabla (Gods path). Make note l-sabla is always used in Quran for Gods way, Gods path never as a literal, physical road.

26165 speaks of atatna (do you approach) l-dhuk'rna (the males) mina (among) l-lamna (the worlds). The verb atatuna has many occurences and forms in Quran. Fact not one of them expresses sexual desire.
Clearly the verb used here describes a movement. If we look at 1178 we find the crowd was rushing towards Lut and the Messengers. The verb used here is yuh'rana (rushing, approaching with desire).

781 and 2755 again uses the verb latatna (to approach) and l-rijla, this time combined with the noun shahwatan (with desire). The verb here again is in lign with 1178 describing the rushing of the crowd.
Other occurences in Quran of the word shahwatan never explicitly define the meaning as explicitly sexual. In contrary, it refers to any kind of desire. Eg 314 uses this word to describe desiring women and sons, gold and silver, horses, cattle and tilled land.
The riyal again, are The messengers, as 1178 clarifies, the crowd was rushing/approaching with desire Lut and the Messengers. This is further validated by 26160 which clearly states the riyal the crowd wanted to deny Lut, were indeed Gods Messengers.

Identification of the female (min duni) subjects in the accusation

26166 mentions azwjikum (your mates). 781 and 2755 mentions l-nisi (the women, plural). Nowhere in all the verses about Lut are any other women (plural) mentioned outside Luts daughters.
Luts daughters are mentioned in 1178 and 1571 (Lut offering them), 1179 (the crowd rejecting them)

Is the accusation consistent throughout?

FM Quran

26160 The people of Lot denied the messengers = Consistent
26165 Do you approach the males of the worlds? = Consistent
26166 And you leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You are an intrusive people! = Consistent
2755 You are approaching the men out of desire instead of the women! Indeed, you are an ignorant people. = Consistent
780 And Lot, he said to his people "Do you commit lewdness such as none of those of the worlds had done before? = Consistent
781 You are approaching the men out of desire instead of the women! Indeed, you are a transgressing people. = Consistent
2929 You sexually approach men, and you commit highway robbery, and you bring all vice to your society." But the only response from his people was to say "Bring us the retribution of God, if you are being truthful!" = Inconsistent

As you can see only in verse 2929 the FM Quran fails utterly. It has added 'sexually', while there is no shahwatan in arabic in that verse. Then it wrongly translates wataqana l-sabla as highway robbery instead of cutting of, obstructing Gods way.

QRT

26160 The people of Lot denied the messengers. = Consistent, although it is shamelesly preluded with a verse injected by Edip to push his narrowminded interpretation saying "Lot and Aggressive Homosexuals". Edip is committing hadith crimes here.
26165 Do you approach the males of the worlds? = Consistent
26166 You leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You are an intrusive people! = Consistent
2755 You are approaching the men out of lust instead of the women! No, you are an ignorant people! = Consistent, although lust is a far too narrow definition of shahwatan as demonstrated with other Quranic occurences.
780 And Lot, when he said to his people Do you commit lewdness to an extend that none in the worlds had surpassed you? = Consistent alhtough extent is spelled wrongly.
781 You come to men with desire instead of women; you are a transgressing people = Consistent
2929 You sexually approach men, you commit highway robbery, and you bring all vice to your society." But the only response from his people was to say, "Bring us God's retribution, if you are being truthful!" = Inconsistent

Edip fails to translate 2929. He makes the same mistake of injecting a word that is not there (shahwatan), then it wrongly translates "cutting of Gods path" by replacing it with highway robbery.

We can conclude both the Freeminds Quran and Edip's QRT do not show consistency in the translation of 2929. A word meaning desire is injected in the translation without being there in arabic. The accusation is suddenly different from all other accusations involving an unprecedented accusation of highway robbery nowhere to be found throughout the entire story. Quran does not contradict. We can conclude these translations of 2929 are objectively wrong if not deliberately translated wrong.

Suggested correction of 2929

You approach the men, you obstruct Gods way, and you bring all vice to your society." But the only response from his people was to say, "Bring us God's retribution, if you are being truthful!

Non-Quranic 'Evidence'

The verb used in the biblical version saying the people of Sodom and Gomorra wanted to know the Messengers uses the hebrew word 'yada'. Similarly to the meanings of tatunah and shahwatan in Quran, it does not explicitly mean carnal knowledge at all.

PS

I'm still anticipating a reply from both the Free Minds admins/moderators and Edip Yuksel on this matter. Are we running like zebras here or what's up?

runninglikezebras

Bump

runninglikezebras

I consider the refusal to remove the injected 'shahwatan' in the translation of 2929 as proof this website is cherry-picking which hadith-contamination to remove and which one to keep. Clearly the admins of this board worship a God which they have attributed homophobia to. I can tell you that is not the God I worship.

Good luck with your reformist homophobic version of Islam. Don't expect anymore contributions from me though.

si_di

Don't rush runninglikezebra,

Maybe theadmins are busy you have to wait till someone giving answers cause its Holiday time.

runninglikezebras

I don't feel I'm rushing. I've seen admins active many times since the time I posted this. Not one of them bothered to respond to my suggestion. They are clearly evading this topic. If not, then they could easily post a message stating why they object, whether they agree, if they need more time etc. None of that has happened so far. If they don't agree then let's hear the refutation. So far I can only determine my request is being totally ignored.

si_di

They have also didn't answered my Version of q-t-l in 254;

I am sure they will answer you thats what quran is teaching us to help each other and i dont think they evading your Topic.We don't have to Forget that the hole world can read here and i think they are careful with giving Statements of quranic themes which are not easy to understand for maintream outthere.Just wait Runniglikezebra

savage_carrot

Runninglikezebras,

The people who are responsible for the way it is etc are not the admins of this forum except for Layth as far as I know. You could send Layth a message/email with a link to your analysis or something. Next time if you'd prefer a quicker response or a specific response etc, please send a PM since we don't really read all the threads whenever we log in, and it's quite possible we may miss posts.