Where was the pilgrimage to, before the change of Qibla?
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Does anyone have any traditional sources of where was the pilgrimage done, before the change of the Qibla?
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AFAIK according to Traditional Islamic history, the hajj was always to Mecca. Of course, prior to prophet Muhammad and in a different region, they may have had their own hajj in their localities.
It is interesting to note that many of these concepts are only introduced late on into The Quran's revelation. I recommend
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html -
Does anyone have any traditional sources of where was the pilgrimage done, before the change of the Qibla?
WOW! This is a VERY good question!
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Peace
But certainly some say there are no contempory sources that mention Mecca for 100-200 years after the death of Muhammad.
Roshan
Thank you for this!!!
I didn't know that!
It raises some very important issues!
hm...
confused -
Does anyone have any traditional sources of where was the pilgrimage done, before the change of the Qibla?
I would just try and take the high road - to all that is good, according to what i can manage unfortunately, we are all weak to an extent.
try and make the qibla of goodness rather then badness in any of its forms - that is a change worth every dime for to us - i think. peace
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Peace .
Kaaba & Mecca In History
Edward Gibbon writes about the Ka'bah and its existence before the Christian era in his book
..... of blind mythology of barbarians - of the local deities, of the stars, the air, and the earth, of their sex or titles, their attributes or subordination. Each tribe, each family, each independent worrier, created and changed the rites and the object of this fantastic worship; but the nation, in every age, has bowed to the religion as well as to the language of Mecca. The genuine antiquity of Caaba ascends beyond the Christian era in describing the coast of the Red sea the Greek historian Diodorus has remarked, between the Thamudites and the Sabeans, a famous temple, whose superior sanctity was revered by all the Arabians; the linen of silken veil, which is annually renewed by the Turkish emperor, was first offered by the Homerites, who reigned seven hundred years before the time of Mohammad.
Diodorus Siculus was a Greek historian of 1st century BC who wrote Bibliotheca Historica, a book describing various parts of the discovered world. The following lines are the English translation of Greek quoted by Gibbon from the book of Diodorus Siculus (Diodorus of Sicily) describing the 'temple' considered to be the the holiest in the whole of Arabia.
And a temple has been set-up there, which is very holy and exceedingly revered by all Arabians.
It is interesting to know that Claudius Ptolemy of Alexandria, mathematician and astronomerastronomer, flourishing about a century after Pliny, undertook to make an atlas of the habitable world. He was not a descriptive geographer, and his book was intended to be no more than a commentary on his maps. He enumerated some hundred and fourteen cities or villages in Arabia Felix.
For example, Dumaetha, placed by Ptolemy just outside the northern boundary of Arabia Felix, must be the mediaeval Arabian Daumet, which is today the chief village of the great oasis of Jauf. Hejr, famous in the "times of ignorance" as the seat of a kingdom, and now Medayin Salih, is Ptolemy's Egra. His Thaim is Teima, now known for its inscriptions to have had temples and some sort of civilization as far back as 500 BC. It is the Tema of Job. In Lathrippa, placed inland from Iambia (Yambo), we recognize the Iathrippa of Stephan of Byzantium, the Yathrib of the early Arab traditions, now honoured as El Medina, the City of Cities.
Apart from this a place called Macoraba is also shown which is identified as Mecca (please refer to the map facing page 17 of reference ). G E von Grunebaum says
Mecca is mentioned by Ptolemy, and the name he gives it allows us to identify it as a South Arabian foundation created around a sanctuary.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
the Greek historian Diodorus has remarked, between the Thamudites and the Sabeans, a famous temple, whose superior sanctity was revered by all the Arabians; the linen of silken veil, which is annually renewed by the Turkish emperor, was first offered by the Homerites, who reigned seven hundred years before the time of Mohammad.
Diodorus Siculus was a Greek historian of 1st century BC who wrote Bibliotheca Historica,
Peace Good Logic
I stumble upon a not so good logic on the thing that I highlighted above.
If Diodorus was living in 1st century BC then there wasn't any "Turkish Emperor" in existence during that time.
As matter of fact the word "Turkish" was not even invented yet.Found this as reference
http//www.theoi.com/Text/DiodorusSiculus4A.html
And I've tried to look for Mecca, Becca, Arabian Temple and found none being mentioned. -
Peace Jafar.
The word "renewed" tells you they were of different era.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Jafar.
Please also read the post from the start
Edward Gibbon writes about the Ka'bah and its existence before the Christian era in his book
i.e Gibbon is probably from the same era as the "Turkish emperor" not Diodorus!!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Wakas.
I was providing some information like those who" dispute " also have the right to do.
GOD knows we always" dispute" even facts that He establishes!
GOD will sort out all these "disputes" on the day of judgement?
Thanks Wakas.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Wakas.
By the way this does not "dispute" the info I gave,quote
Also see
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaabaJust thought I clarify. Never mind though.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
peace GL,
I was providing some information like those who" dispute " also have the right to do.
I agree. It is often good to have both sides of story.
I haven't studied it, but what I found interesting was that apart from the disputed "macoraba" mention, "mecca" is not mentioned for several hundred years after the disputed "macoraba" even though the region was documented several times by later travellers/geographers/etc. If that's true, then I think that is significant.
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Peace
Just ran into this treat.
Wasn`t it not just Jerusalem?
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Peace
Just ran into this treat.
Wasn`t it not just Jerusalem?
I recommend
From
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.htmlKey
AMAH=al masjid al haram
CAD=classical arabic dictionarieschange of qiblah - an understanding based on Quran
The information we can extract about the meaning of "qiblah", and the change, from these verses is as follows-this new change is in some way related to guiding to a straight/establishing path, and making the believers a balanced/moderate community
-the qiblah which they were on was a great test (i.e. difficult), except those God guided, and their belief in such was not going to be for nothing
-in this case the qiblah happens to be AMAH, but there are potentially many other qiblah, as individuals could have their own qiblah
-in 2148 the usage of "wherever" is the ONLY time it appears without a close link to "turn+wajh+AMAH" therefore likens "wijhatun (direction/course/goal)" with "qiblah" and consequently likens AMAH to "race to the good" or at least we can say AMAH involves this. Furthermore, AQ implies each person may have their own "qiblah" in 2145 then later in 2148 says "for each is a wijhatun he turns towards it", strongly suggesting "qiblah" and "wijhatun" are being related as similar terms/concepts. Please re-read these verses as this is a key finding.
-the effects of this change will be less debate from the people, lead to God completing His favour, aid guiding, and bringing you all together.
-wherever one is they should turn their wajh/purpose/consideration in the direction of AMAH, and from the contexts that likley involves being oriented towards the truth of your Lord, the good, and uniting of believersTo me, "turning one's wajh in the sky" in 2144 comes across as an idiom, so whilst it could be literally translated as "turning one's face IN the sky" it is implying one is directionless, aimless, floating/blowing in the wind, i.e. no plan/goal to progress, looking/searching for a way/resolution. Interestingly it is listed in 'Verbal Idioms of Quran' by Mustansir Mir but explained as he turned his face towards the heaven so often that it is added emphasis to say his face was IN the heaven, even though it literally is not. Perhaps, but that does not change the fact that it is taken by all to mean he was seeking guidance. The new qiblah resolves this, and is also pleasing, implying a possible easing of argumentation/hostility for the believers, which would tie in with "no debate against you".
As a side note, the only other use of "wly/turn" in these verses other than "turn+wajh" is 2148 "...he turns towards it (wijhatun/course/goal)", which is primarily figurative and not taken physical-directional by anyone. This may help indicate the type of turning being referred to in these verses.Based on the above, usage of the root QBL in AQ, CAD meanings, and the only other occurrence of "qiblah" in 1087, in terms of likelihood for the meaning of "qiblah", in my view, are
- focal-point - focus/centre of interest or activity
- direction - general aim or purpose; a general way in which someone/something is developing
- point-of-approach - a way in which to approaching something
- counteraction - to oppose and mitigate the effects of by contrary action
