What is Islam?

[muslims]

I will break my reply into parts. . .

Firstly

It's simple -You hijacked many Quranic verses, Arabic language and intepreted it out of context
-You monopolize the Quran, so you can arrange the Quran to following your own concept, ex YY balance

No I'm not. . and you have not proven your blank accusation
Instead you repeatedly making your blank accusation

This what you've said . .

As muslim we must tried to uphold the white whatever the black is existed.

This is what I have replied . . . showing your understanding is not accurate

Showing that Islam is not all about good and evil alone

but Islam is also about balance between good and evil

Yes, you as an individual, not as a whole. . . "your life"

How about others?

ie. more than 7 billion peoples on earth, and trillion of other living creatures ?

and..

And if you were to harm (them) in retaliation
harm them to the measure you were harmed <- Allah's command to commit evil
16.126

and 18.68-82 (Moses and Khidhr) <- Khidhr commits evil

And how can you have patience for what you do not encompass in knowledge?

See? Allah commands evil in the Quran. . for binging balance and justice in that particular situation.

Islam is not only about doing good, but also bringing balance in the worst kind of situations

So . . what is your answer?

None !

But you repeatedly making blank accusations and denials. . .

Is this how you present truth ?

p.s. similarly, Allah is Al-Muizz (&#1586 - The Giver of Honor, and in contradiction. . . Allah is also Al-Muzill (&#1604 - The Giver of Dishonor. Allah is al-Rahim (&#1605 - The Exceedingly Merciful, and in contradiction. . . Allah is also Al-Muntaqim (&#1605 - The Avenger , and so on . . .

[muslims]

Secondly . .

I'm bigot?? Yes, I will became bigot to someone who tried to annilihate my faith

Okay, you have admitted that you are a bigot, a sectarian . . .

I reject Yin Yang not because I hate Chinese.I don't hate Chinese generally, but only their attitude.

There is nothing wrong with the idea of Ying & Yang
but it is all about you hating the Chinese attitude. . .
and actually, their ideas and the Chinese people
since the majority of Chinese believe in the Ying & Yang

and for that reason, you also hate their theory . . . even if . . .

So even Yin Yang authorized by god, fake still a fake.

So, it is clear that even God have no power over your opinion. . .

The issue of just or unjust is totally irrelevant to you

This is your faith

I will became bigot to someone who tried to annilihate my faith

[muslims]

Thirdly

You ever said to me if you also follow the hadith right?? If you ever read the hadith, then you will know if Muhammad in hadith also a bigot toward some kafirs

There is not a single person on this earth who are perfectfully a good person . . or perfectfully an evil person

Therefore, Allah's way means "living justly balanced", between good and evil

and for whatever religious labels they are. . .

For example

They are not the same
among the People of the Scripture is a community standing
reciting the verses of Allah during periods of the night and prostrating
They believe in Allah and the Last Day
and they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and hasten to good deeds
And those are among the righteous.
3.113-114

They are "kafirs" ?

Therefore, Muhammad is not a bigot, but he was an upright man. . .

Ibrahim was not a Jew <- Ibrahim has no religion, so as Muhammad. Nonsectarian.
nor a Christian
but he was (an) upright (man) <- showing a great concern for what is right, fair and truthful way
a Muslim <- Muslim = an upright man - a Muslim is defined by the above ayat
and he was not one of the polytheists <- Sectarianism (idol worshippers)
(367-6

Muhammad is not a bigot, but it is you . .
A sectarian who oppose justice and make decision based upon which sect or race that someone belong to..

That is because Allah hath revealed the Scripture with the truth
Lo! those who find (a cause of) disagreement in the Scripture
are in open schism (sectarianism, bigot, a true syiah or , ie. (379-87))
2.176

[muslims]

Lastly . . .

You forget in the Quran, there is a phrase "JIhad fi sabilillah" means fight/struggle in the Allah's way.
Islam promote struggle in faith, protect the purity of His teachinf because this is how Islam hath a long lives and still existed until now.

You misunderstood the concept of Jihad

Permission has been given to those who are being fought
because they were wronged
And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory
22.39

As we can see, permission to fight is granted to all religions
Permission of Jihad is granted even to the disbelievers to Jihad against the Believers if the Disbelievers have been wronged

If the Believers are committing the oppression
Allah will be on their side and Allah is competent to give them victory over the Believers

Islam only defends the fundamental human right of freedom of conscience.
Allah does not take religious labels, but Allah command balance and justice

For the same reason, a true Muslim should not only treat the worshipper with respect
but should also be ready to defend their places of worship when attacked

[David_Saidi]

Salaam

Let's let me make clear......

1. FIrst I don't hate Chinese generally.
   I have some Chinese friends and they're nice and I also nice to them, not racist like chinese patriots/extremist.
   I'm an university graduate so I'm not simply hate something just because differences, but some crucial things.

You disagree or not, soon or maybe near the last day we will get war against China.
It's already been predicted from poilitical and economic prespective.
The history repeat itself

2. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg349289#msg349289

The reason I posting like this, because we're talking about balance.
Example Do you ever watch Avatar cartoon??
The setting is in the fiction world consist 4 countries Fire nation, Earth, Water and Air nation.
If the fire nation capable to conquer other three countries, the elemental balance will ended, thus Avatar's mission is failed.

This balance is also exist between ASEAN-China relations.
Do you ever heard "Nam Tien" or " go south" in english??This doctrination used by Chinese since ancient time to conquer their southern neighbor a.k.a ASEAN.

Yes we're allowed to befriend and assimilate with the local chinese,but it doen't means we're weak to them.
Because some of the local chinese (Tionghoa/Muhwa) still loyal to the their homeland and still proud to be as "Zhonghua Minzu " and the relation between local and homeland chinese often called bamboo network.FOr them Malaysia, Indonesia etc is just a national formality and they came to our countries in the past, just because of trade/money.

I'm not uttering nonsenses, I have connections with some experts who keep monitoring Chinese movements in ASEAN

If we're to weak soon ASEAN will under Chinese hegemony (perhaps in 2020), just like the Fire nation in Avatar movie.
This is what I said there is no balance.

3. When I post verses and concepts, I always gave examples, so maybe you also give examples fo "What is balance"

Especially for this

Islam is not only about doing good, but also bringing balance in the worst kind of situations

4. War only allowed if we're being oppressed/attacked and to save the Allah's deen.Please read the Quran again.

2190 Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.

And plese explain your claim

If the Believers are committing the oppression
Allah will be on their side and Allah is competent to give them victory over the Believers

Please learn again about mu'min in the Quran.
If a mu'min practice oppression, the he will became a munafeeq.

Ibrahim was not a Jew <- Ibrahim has no religion, so as Muhammad. Nonsectarian.

According to Biblical story, Abraham is a pagan/atheist before he appointed as Phrophet.
For Muhammad, please read some historical narrations about him.Muhammad is also a sectarian because he labeled someone who worshipp different god as a kafir.

[muslims]

There is none from your answer is relying on the ayat of the Quran
It is simply your opinion and wishful thinking

and you are ignoring many issues raise by me
and which I don't bother to ask you again
maybe that's how you present your truth. . ignore and blank denials/accusations

Let's we see what's left from your argument . . .

You disagree or not, soon or maybe near the last day we will get war against China.
It's already been predicted from poilitical and economic prespective.
The history repeat itself

You go to war with them . . . I'm watching the television, reading the news and spend time with my family. laugh

This is ridiculous.... going to war simply because you feel jealous and threatened when they are monopolizing the economy etc?

And if you were to harm (them) in retaliation
harm them to the measure you were harmed
16.126

Therefore, grow up and start improving yourself and be responsible like a man
Build the economy and earn some respect. . . not forcing others to respect you

They work very hard, being competitive and selling very cheap items and suddenly why should you feel hatred against them?
They got what they deserved. . .

There is no balance because your people are lazy and immature
The are making ibada to their "priests", street demonstration and riots at all times
sometimes for some simple or unreasonable issues, like "asian curry recipes", "cookies" and "songs"
Can you believe this?

Thus bring some balance by improving their life and the way they think and work
Bring some balance by bringing the asean communities as one. . . work as a group and benefiting each other
Not by declaring wars and causing corruption on earth

. . .

Please learn again about mu'min in the Quran.
If a mu'min practice oppression, the he will became a munafeeq.

Read again . . .

Permission is given to those who are being fought because they were wronged

22.39

Therefore

As we can see, permission to fight is granted to all religions
Permission of Jihad is granted even to the disbelievers to Jihad against the Believers if the Disbelievers have been wronged

You disagree?
They are supposed to say thank you and kiss your hand when you are oppressing them?
However if you are being oppressed, you can declare Jihad and kill every each one of them ?

But the Jews and the Christians say, "We are the children of Allah and His beloved."
5.18

What kind system of life (deen) is this ? laugh

. . .

According to Biblical story, Abraham is a pagan/atheist before he appointed as Phrophet.
For Muhammad, please read some historical narrations about him.Muhammad is also a sectarian because he labeled someone who worshipp different god as a kafir.

Wishful thinking. . . prove from the Quran, then the hadith. . . then Ijma, Bible, Torah, Qiyas etc.
Again, and according to priority. . .

1. Quran
   http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png
2. Hadith
   http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png
3. Ijma (consensus of opinion relating to similarities with specific verses from the Bible, Torah etc)
   http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png
4. Qiyas (analogical reasoning relating to similarities with
   non specific verses from the Bible, Torah, Traditions, Man-made law etc)
   http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png
5. Istihsan (equity), Maslahah Mursalah (considerations of public interest),
   Istishab (presumption of continuity), Ijtihad (logic, critical thinking) etc . . . .
   http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png
6. Lastly. . . your opinion.

and you also ignoring so many facts, including the following facts etc . . . 3.113-114
ie. facts showing the corrupted translation of a Disbelievers

[David_Saidi]

You go to war with them . . . I'm watching the television, reading the news and spend time with my family. laugh

This is ridiculous.... going to war simply because you feel jealous and threatened when they are monopolizing the economy etc?

And if you were to harm (them) in retaliation
harm them to the measure you were harmed
16.126

Therefore, grow up and start improving yourself and be responsible like a man
Build the economy and earn some respect. . . not forcing others to respect you

First who said if I want to start a war against the Chinese?? Don't be missunderstood >
I only said "if sometime because economic crisis, lack of natural resources and UN's laws has no function again maybe the war between Chinese and ASEAN will occured"
This already been predicted by some theories.

Do you understand sir....... ;D (or I must repeat n repeat again to make you understand).

They work very hard, being competitive and selling very cheap items and suddenly why should you feel hatred against them?
They got what they deserved. . .

There is no balance because your people are lazy and immature
The are making ibada to their "priests", street demonstration and riots at all times
sometimes for some simple or unreasonable issues, like "asian curry recipes", "cookies" and "songs"
Can you believe this?

I assume you're a chinese.

I don't hate them nor felt jealous toward them.
You don't know the issues, because simple you're passive witnesses of this civillization.
Since you already live in luxirious then you just feel passionate because of it (mental budak handshake).

I told you, I work with many chinese and know well their attitude and cultures.
Chinese deserve to get it?? Maybe and perhaps.Malay is also hard worker but now how can the most opportunities is under chinese hands??Is it coincidences ??

Do you ever imagine this In the past Malay archipelago rulled by some powerful local kingdoms with great economy, even the chinese sailors admire this.At time Chinese even has no influence at all
But why now this place runned by some pitiful countries like Indonesia,Malaysia,Thailand, Phillipines whose most of their economic runned by chinese??Very contradict with the past time!!

Is it coincidence?? or maybe a setting from the start??

One of my answer is simple because in the past the chinese became the right hand man of the colonialist (British-Dutch), while malay people became slave and brainwashed to be slave )

Explain something like this is enough just in this forum, but if you feel you're a starter for this issue, then watch this

http//aero-comlab.stanford.edu/jameson/world_history/A_Short_History_of_South_East_Asia1.pdf

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=1auhd-615K0

You disagree?
They are supposed to say thank you and kiss your hand when you are oppressing them?
However if you are being oppressed, you can declare Jihad and kill every each one of them ?

But the Jews and the Christians say, "We are the children of Allah and His beloved."
5.18

What kind system of life (deen) is this ? laugh

It's you who don't understand about jihad.Do you think jihad always related about "kill"?

Jihad or ijtihad simply means struggle not kill.Kill in Arabic is qatl.
Struggle/jihad can be done by anything bro..... like hard working, uniting muslims who differ in sects or reject some hegemony which is not friendly with the Islam etc.

Quran teach us to have self-regard as muslim.

Qishas And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed ? then it is those who are the wrongdoers. (545)

[muslims]

So there is no more verses from the Quran. . . it is simply your opinion.

Well....

First who said if I want to start a war against the Chinese?? Don't be missunderstood >(
I only said "if sometime because economic crisis, lack of natural resources and UN's laws has no function again maybe the war between Chinese and ASEAN will occured"
This already been predicted by some theories.

Do you understand sir....... ;D (or I must repeat n repeat again to make you understand).

Yes I do understand, it is war... and who is this ASEAN country ?

Obviously it is not Malaysia, since we are a small country. . .
In fact, we are more into building our economies, improve our life and make friends rather than starting a war. laugh

. . .

I assume you're a chinese.

So when I speak for the Chinese, I'm becoming the Chinese people ?
Why it always has to come with "labels" ?

Okay, I forgot... you have already admitted that you are a bigot. laugh

. . .

I don't hate them nor felt jealous toward them.
You don't know the issues, because simple you're passive witnesses of this civillization.
Since you already live in luxirious then you just feel passionate because of it (mental budak handshake).

I told you, I work with many chinese and know well their attitude and cultures.

The Chinese Malaysian population makes up to 40%, the Indian 8% and Malay 52%.
The Chinese Indonesian population makes up a little less than 1% of the total Indonesian population of 255 million peoples.

Therefore, how come you know more about the Chinese people?
Because they control 97% of your economy ? Currency rate ? Who is the "mental budak" ? laugh

. . .

Chinese deserve to get it?? Maybe and perhaps.Malay is also hard worker but now how can the most opportunities is under chinese hands??Is it coincidences ??

Do you ever imagine this In the past Malay archipelago rulled by some powerful local kingdoms with great economy, even the chinese sailors admire this.At time Chinese even has no influence at all
But why now this place runned by some pitiful countries like Indonesia,Malaysia,Thailand, Phillipines whose most of their economic runned by chinese??Very contradict with the past time!!

Is it coincidence?? or maybe a setting from the start??

One of my answer is simple because in the past the chinese became the right hand man of the colonialist (British-Dutch), while malay people became slave and brainwashed to be slave )

Explain something like this is enough just in this forum, but if you feel you're a starter for this issue, then watch this

You must be kidding to present the theory from one lecturer who are presenting her research as facts about Malaysia. . .

Look at the Malay in Malaysia... do you think we are starving and cannot control our economy ?
I think there is too much speculation and distortion of facts from your part ... which I don't bother or be interested to reply . . . laugh

Further.. do I need to worry about all this when I have the Quran and Allah is in control of everything ?

[David_Saidi]

Peace

Yes I do understand, it is war... and who is this ASEAN country ?

I said sometimes and I hope not in this era.
Political atsmosphere changed time to time and I cannot guarantee if Malaysia and Indonesia is still existed in next era
Perhaps both of countries will change to another forms (alliance if necessary).

In fact, we are more into building our economies, improve our life and make friends rather than starting a war. laugh

By said we (Malaysian) you're also a bigot )
Even I lived in Indonesia, I don't loyal with the regime and I'm avoid to participate the election multiple times.
DO you think the other Malaysian think the same like you?? NO
I know some Malaysian who have same idea like me and some Malaysian conservatives dreaming a Chaliphate state

Therefore, how come you know more about the Chinese people?

Because I work with them and the some of my neighboor also chinese.

You must be kidding to present the theory from one lecturer who are presenting her research as facts about Malaysia. . .

Look at the Malay in Malaysia... do you think we are starving and cannot control our economy ?
I think there is too much speculation and distortion of facts from your part ... which I don't bother or be interested to reply . . . laugh

Further.. do I need to worry about all this when I have the Quran and Allah is in control of everything ?

I don't care about any Malay countries, whatever they Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei.
This kind of countries runned by weak politicians (ex signing free-trade).

Yes Allah is in control everything, but it doesn't means we just sit down and do nothing

1311 For each one are successive before and behind him who protect him by the decree of Allah. Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron

Plus the word "jihad/struggle appeared many verses in the Quran.
So as muslim, we're not just sit down passively waiting the miracle came down.

[muslims]

I said sometimes and I hope not in this era.
Political atsmosphere changed time to time and I cannot guarantee if Malaysia and Indonesia is still existed in next era
Perhaps both of countries will change to another forms (alliance if necessary).

You are the majority and they are the minority. . . extremely far in numbers
Therefore why are you feeling so threatened by less than 1% chinese population in Indonesia?
They don't deserve to live at all ?

How about this cruelty ? Who are the oppressor ? 500,000 innocent peoples were killed ?
http//freewestpapua.wordpress.com/
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAQ6kDkirBg
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kwFo7-3Wk0
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHZ_fXTva9I
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaGou3vB3A0
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ-XkN5GwRE
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r1r3whfPhM
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=phrLc5dZGAw

Come one ... be reasonable and improve your life and country rather than thinking about wars etc, this is getting silly.

By said we (Malaysian) you're also a bigot

You are the one who bring the issue of war and "ASEAN COUNTRY" etc
and when I speak about country, according to your topic ... suddenly I became a bigot?
Your pattern of thinking is becoming very weird rotfl

Because I work with them and the some of my neighboor also chinese.

Well, I live with chinese the rest of my life, even used to be housemate etc. . . and we live like brothers and sisters...
and now . . . all my neighbours are chinese... hundreds
thus, what makes you know them better?
what makes you think that you are qualified to judge them as an oppressor and unjust ?

Yes Allah is in control everything, but it doesn't means we just sit down and do nothing

1311 For each one are successive before and behind him who protect him by the decree of Allah. Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron

Plus the word "jihad/struggle appeared many verses in the Quran.
So as muslim, we're not just sit down passively waiting the miracle came down.

Yes we should do something, like reading the Quran, obeying and following closely Allah's commands and prohibitions . . .
The rest we leave it to Allah. . .

[David_Saidi]

You are the majority and they are the minority. . . extremely far in numbers
Therefore why are you feeling so threatened by less than 1% chinese population in Indonesia?
They don't deserve to live at all ?

You're confused.
Who said if they don't deserved to live?? I said multiple times if I have many chinese friends.
What I aware is the chinese who play scapegoats.
Chinese is 1%, yes because you only count Totok Chinese (young imigrant), but you didn't count Peranakan Chinese (earlier immigrants) who consist 6.000.000 people and Benteng Chinese (mix Betawi heritage).

Come one ... be reasonable and improve your life and country rather than thinking about wars etc, this is getting silly.

Then how about it http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUku_a5pW5E
Just type "Sabah Sarawak Keluar Malaysia" in youtube and you will find may videos talking about North Borneoan separatist.

Posting that videos only prove if you actually still don't understand the context.

That videos, has no effect to me.Please try to differ what is state, what is civillian.
I'm a civillian who don't care about my state (government).
Incident in that video, that was Suharto did.

In the Quran said, whoever to do oppression even they're family, fellows are our enemy (2191)

You are the one who bring the issue of war and "ASEAN COUNTRY" etc
and when I speak about country, according to your topic ... suddenly I became a bigot?
Your pattern of thinking is becoming very weird rotfl

Perhaps I must change word ASEAN to SEA, so you will connect.
Please stop divert issues, this is not about Indonesia Malaysia, but our duty as muslims for keeping the balance and how to protect our faith/religion.

Well, I live with chinese the rest of my life, even used to be housemate etc. . . and we live like brothers and sisters...
and now . . . all my neighbours are chinese... hundreds
thus, what makes you know them better?
what makes you think that you are qualified to judge them as an oppressor and unjust ?

Re-read my previous post again!!!
Perhaps I will waste my time since I always repeat the same statements.

First I said "I have chinese friends", so how can it be I call my own friends as oppressor rotfl
Not all chinese is like I described, some of chinese are good, tolerate and even a humble muslims.

Are you rich?? Yes perhaps some chinese is still dare to befriend with you because you're rich.
Perhaps if you're poor and useless, maybe they will ignore you rotfl

I told you befriend the chinese is OK, learn from them, is OK, but still don't be divert our path from God.
Don't allowed the oppressor whatever they're, oppress the muslims.

[muslims]

Chinese is 1%, yes because you only count Totok Chinese (young imigrant), but you didn't count Peranakan Chinese (earlier immigrants) who consist 6.000.000 people and Benteng Chinese (mix Betawi heritage).

Yes, they are the minority.. extremely far in numbers. So because of this 1% there should be war ? laugh

Then how about it http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUku_a5pW5E
Just type "Sabah Sarawak Keluar Malaysia" in youtube and you will find may videos talking about North Borneoan separatist.

You must be kidding to compare that with killing of 500,000 native peoples of the West Papua. . . rotfl'

Refer here
http//freewestpapua.org/info/

Incident in that video, that was Suharto did.

2010, 2012 etc and Suharto ? and still continues by the Indonesian government ?

Indonesian police murder young man for refusing to shave his hair and beard
date of incident 23/09/2013

95 Papuans starve to death
date of incident 09/2013

Study finds at least one incident of torture every six weeks
date of incident 09/2013

Indonesian military shoot dead 11 year old West Papuan girl
date of incident 07/2013

West Papuan civil servant beaten to death by Indonesian police
date of incident 09/2013

no video please! laugh
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3vBaOCN8aI

and many more...
http//freewestpapua.org/news/

West Papua is currently off limits to international journalists. If discovered without permission they are arrested and deported by the Indonesian authorities. Some have even been attacked and imprisoned.

It is clear that Indonesian authorities will stop at nothing to keep the ongoing genocide they are directing in West Papua out of the international media agenda. West Papua has also become impossible to operate in for many NGOs. In 2010 the International Red Cross were expelled, and in 2012 Peace Brigades International were forced to leave. International human rights organisations such as Amnesty and Human Rights Watch are also denied access to West Papua; http//freewestpapua.org/info/human-rights/

Posting that videos only prove if you actually still don't understand the context.

That videos, has no effect to me.Please try to differ what is state, what is civillian.
I'm a civillian who don't care about my state (government).

Yes, people don't understand how all that can be justifiable.

and that's what happening for all these years . . .
You don't care and just keep silent about the government.
The black monkey and their traditional weapons are wrong and threatening the country, they should be killed like animals.
So as those in timor leste and acheh etc. . . and also the 1% chinese population.
and you are busy speaking about other country, while your country is in an absolute mess . . .

and this is Islam ?
according to you this is balance and justice? laugh

goodness without wisdom always accomplishes evil . . .

Are you rich?? Yes perhaps some chinese is still dare to befriend with you because you're rich.
Perhaps if you're poor and useless, maybe they will ignore you rotfl

What's so strange about that ?
It is not only the Chinese, but there are people like that everywhere on this earth..
the Arab, European, American etc.... even the javanese people!

Therefore why you are saying only about the Chinese?

and you think that people becoming rich for no reason?
you think they did nothing and suddenly become rich ?
you think china government did nothing and suddenly control the world economy? and they don't deserve this? laugh

I told you befriend the chinese is OK, learn from them, is OK, but still don't be divert our path from God.
Don't allowed the oppressor whatever they're, oppress the muslims.

What is the path of God? "Religion" of Islam ? laugh

[muslims]

Don't allowed the oppressor whatever they're, oppress the muslims.

How do you explain this?

The police, military and the government are all Muslims. . . including the citizen.

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kslNnhVCksw#t=360
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kslNnhVCksw#t=250
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kslNnhVCksw#t=780

[David_Saidi]

Salaam muslims my brother ;D

Siip laa, actually you feel to my trap
It's to prove you're actually also a bigot.

If you want to know all of this are actually my settings from the start.
Actually I don't hate chinese at all, and there are also chinese within my family.
One of my uncle and his children are chinese in blood.

Plus actually you can easily exposed my trap if you ever read my statement if I work with chinese.
Logically if I work with the Chinese, joint venture with them then why I suddenly raise this chinse sentiment rotfl

I already aware from the start if you actually still not conceptual to explain your view.
Somewhat you change your views time to time and not consequent

Why I said you bigot?
If I'm not wrong,in the past you ever said "I don't belong to any states".
But now your true nature exposed, you start to said "my country (Malaysia) and your country (Indonesia)"
As muslim I'm very sad to hear it ;D, in the fact muslims actually must united into single ummah, helping each other and not bounded by nationality or races.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606347.0

It's enough to prove you're still not consequent for not being bigot ;D

Plus from where I get that idea??
I got it from topix.com, in where Indonesian netizens mocking Malaysia for how this country treat the Chinese as second class and raise the issue about Sarawak-Sabah independence.
Then the Malaysian replied by raising West Papuan issue.

Now simply I just repeat what they did to you and in it's successful.You lost your charismatic.

You don't know who I'm, perhaps you missundestood me for being extrimist.
I ever work in a HRD department in the past and I know some of formulas for doing that

Sorry for trolling you from the start

[muslims]

Why I said you bigot?
If I'm not wrong,in the past you ever said "I don't belong to any states".
But now your true nature exposed, you start to said "my country (Malaysia) and your country (Indonesia)"
As muslim I'm very sad to hear it ;D, in the fact muslims actually must united into single ummah, helping each other and not bounded by nationality or races.

No I'm not . . I'm responding to your context of discussion, ie. war between Chinese and "ASEAN COUNTRY" and . .
I have already explained this.

You are the one who bring the issue of war and "ASEAN COUNTRY" etc
and when I speak about country, according to your topic ... suddenly I became a bigot?
Your pattern of thinking is becoming very weird rotfl

Yes I do understand, it is war... and who is this ASEAN country ?

Obviously it is not Malaysia, since we are a small country. . .
In fact, we are more into building our economies, improve our life and make friends rather than starting a war. laugh

. . .

As muslim I'm very sad to hear it ;D, in the fact muslims actually must united into single ummah, helping each other and not bounded by nationality or races.

I am now the papuan people . . . laugh

and

What makes you think I will unite with the oppressor and who support the killing of 500,000 innocent people and treat them like animals ?

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kslNnhVCksw#t=480

That videos, has no effect to me.

. . .

So for trolling you from the star

Suddenly I become a troll for speaking about justice ? rotfl

Here is the start, looks who is trolling . . .

hehehe CHINA NAK TIPU URANG MUSLIM!!! rotfl

As muslim we must tried to uphold the white whatever the black is existed.
If necessary the white must have more percentage than black.

now compare it with your other statement . . .

Posting that videos only prove if you actually still don't understand the context.

That videos, has no effect to me.Please try to differ what is state, what is civillian.
I'm a civillian who don't care about my state (government).

See how your statement always full of inconsistencies ? laugh

the truth . . . what you are saying has nothing to do with Islam at all . . . but about Bigotism and Sectarianism

I'm bigot?? Yes, I will became bigot to someone who tried to annilihate my faith

[David_Saidi]

I already said if it's are my settings from the start.

no compare with the following statement . . .

The phrase "China nak tipu" is also my trap.

See how your statement always full of inconsistencies ? laugh

I'm a civillian not goverment,
So if government said A, then the civillizian also said A??
State and civillian is different, by brother...

Btw I aslo have Malaysian Mykad, I get it from Sarawak.
Yeah in Sarawak-Kalimantan border, some people in there have dual-citizenship

Example if Osama said "I will destroy America", according to UN constitution what Osama attack to is US state (government) not it's civillian.

If I said "China is destroyed" this means it's state (government and constitutions) not Chinese in ethnicity/civillian.

[muslims]

I'm a civillian not goverment,

That's not the issue. . the issue is you support and keep silent about the oppression and brutality.

Posting that videos only prove if you actually still don't understand the context.

That videos, has no effect to me.Please try to differ what is state, what is civillian.
I'm a civillian who don't care about my state (government).

What the Indonesian government did has nothing to do with Islam. . .it is in fact equal to the Taliban etc.

and you are okay with all that? . . . This is madness.

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kslNnhVCksw#t=360

and then you question and saying bad things about the Chinese, the less than 1% population in Indonesia, and out of 255 million peoples

What's wrong with you? It is supposed to be javanese people country only ? laugh

[David_Saidi]

That's not the issue. . the issue is you support and keep silent about the oppression and brutality.

This is madness.

Because I have no power to stop it.
This is not the government who officially did it, perhaps some delinquent military members.
Btw this cases is not as simple as you see in the video, it's very complex and full of conspiration.

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQRcGCc-ZL8
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmKc_kDZNEY

In that video you will know if Nicholas Messet (ex OPM's foreign minister) and Nicholas Jouwe (the desainer of West Papuan flag) already deserted OPM (Free Papua Movement) and want to remain royal with Indonesian govt.

If you want to know, Indonesian Papua split into two provices.One is Irian Jaya and one is West Papua.
Free Papua Movement want to West Papuan independence not Irian Jaya.
Papua itself is not the name of ethnic but name of place, there are many ethnics like Dani, Asmat, Papuan Muslim (raja Ampat) and etc.
Sometimes tribal conflict happened in there,

You also said if the entire soldiers and police in operations is muslism.How you know??
Some of soldier and police in there came from Batak, Mollucan ethnic and local Papuan and they're Christian

Btw who cares of this issue, all what I do is just to prove if you're inconsistent with your own theory

[muslims]

Btw who cares of this issue, all what I do is just to prove if you're inconsistent with your own theory

http//freewestpapua.wordpress.com/2009/09/24/shocking-images-of-indonesian-military-sweeping-operations-against-west-papuan-civilians/

more images

That clearly prove your belief. . .

In West Papua people get 15 years in prison for peacefully raising their flag, villages are burnt down regularly by the Indonesian army in the highland region, & women and children are routinely raped by the notoriously brutal Indonesian army. There is no equality, only racism, injustice and eternal suffering.

Since Indonesia colonised West Papua, it is estimated that between 500,000 and 1 million people have been killed by the brutal Indonesian military. Countless others have been raped, tortured, imprisoned or ?disappeared? for speaking out against Indonesian rule.

Indonesia bans journalists and human rights observers from entering West Papua. They are desperate to hide the facts of the killings and crimes against humanity that they are committing there. Similarly to in East Timor where the Indonesian military committed the worst reported cases of human rights abuses in the modern era, they are now doing the same again in West Papua.; Free West Papua

Acheh. . .
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLLbH9fLu3Y

As we can see, your contentions are full of inconsistencies and distortion of facts.
In fact, I believe you are religious people and a sectarian. . .
and what you are saying has nothing to do with Islam.

I rest my case.

[David_Saidi]

Salaam

Your argumentative skill is very weak.You still relate two entities who has less correlation.

Example If I'm American then can you judge me for supporting Bush to do war crimes in Iraq just by looking my nationality?

So where is my relations in west papuan issue?
The muslims soldier who torture unarmed people cannot be called as moo'men but moonafeq.
That soldiers of course are enemy of Islam too.

As we can see, your contentions are full of inconsistencies and distortion of facts.
In fact, I believe you are religious people and a sectarian. . .
and what you are saying has nothing to do with Islam.

Mohammed (saw) is also sectarian, if not he won't attacking pagan or jewish tribes to make them embrance Islam.
And also the Caliphate will not destroy Byzantine just because they're Christian.

Islam is identity and must be united in single ummah whatever the sects.