Peace
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Greetings and Peace, all group
@A.Wayne welcome
It is wonderful when people set aside tradition and popularity to seek a true path. This site is not only a place of learning and discourse, but a community for many.
May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Many thanks for the warm welcome everyone! No Man Of Faith, I was not aware, but thank you for the info!
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Peace,
Sorry I formulated myself poorly. I meant that if you are in that building, you are not facing the kabah but in just some random direction. The concept of "qiblah" is lame. In the time of the alleged Muhammad the building ought to have been used on the inside and then there is no "qiblah direction".
It is also weird to have a temple you cannot enter. Could be understandable considered the mass of people going there but yet it seems idolatrous to circumvent a physical building.
If you stand in a temple then your qiblah must be the focus of the system and the kind of communication (salah) you have with God. They will never follow your qiblah means those who are cursed by God will not do so, and not that they are too arrogant to face physically in a particular direction.
Suppose the concept is hijacked from the obsession with Jerusalem.
God bless you
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peace,
With regard to "qiblah" I recommend
Analysis of 2140-151
change of qiblah - an understanding based on Quran
The information we can extract about the meaning of "qiblah", and the change, from these verses is as follows
this new change is in some way related to guiding to a straight/establishing path, and making the believers a balanced/moderate community
the qiblah which they were on was a great test (i.e. difficult), except those God guided, and their belief in such was not going to be for nothing
in this case the qiblah happens to be AMAH, but there are potentially many other qiblah, as individuals could have their own qiblah
in 2148 the usage of "wherever" is the ONLY time it appears without a close link to "turn+wajh+AMAH" therefore likens "wijhatun (direction/course/goal)" with "qiblah" and consequently likens AMAH to "race to the good" or at least we can say AMAH involves this. Furthermore, AQ implies each person may have their own "qiblah" in 2145 then later in 2148 says "for each is a wijhatun he turns towards it", strongly suggesting "qiblah" and "wijhatun" are being related as similar terms/concepts. Please re-read these verses as this is a key finding.
the effects of this change will be less debate from the people, lead to God completing His favour, aid guiding, and bringing you all together.
wherever one is they should turn their wajh/purpose/consideration in the direction of AMAH, and from the contexts that likley involves being oriented towards the truth of your Lord, the good, and uniting of believers
source
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Peace,
Sorry I formulated myself poorly. I meant that if you are in that building, you are not facing the kabah but in just some random direction. The concept of "qiblah" is lame. In the time of the alleged Muhammad the building ought to have been used on the inside and then there is no "qiblah direction".
It is also weird to have a temple you cannot enter. Could be understandable considered the mass of people going there but yet it seems idolatrous to circumvent a physical building.
If you stand in a temple then your qiblah must be the focus of the system and the kind of communication (salah) you have with God. They will never follow your qiblah means those who are cursed by God will not do so, and not that they are too arrogant to face physically in a particular direction.
Suppose the concept is hijacked from the obsession with Jerusalem.
God bless you
So you think it does not matter where the original Kaaba (or the original building that is now called Kaaba) pointed to? But it may still be interesting, if only for historical reasons. This does not have to mean that this should be the qibla.
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So you think it does not matter where the original Kaaba (or the original building that is now called Kaaba) pointed to? But it may still be interesting, if only for historical reasons. This does not have to mean that this should be the qibla.
Peace,
God is not towards the East nor the West. There is something in that expression. Of course in any direction you turn there is God.
The Kabah would have faced northwest in its original shape. In fact it is nearly the same direction as Jerusalem, but I think it is further west, more like Mount Sinai. Anyway I think it is a coincidence that it faces in any particular direction, but curiously enough pointing towards northwest.
Considering this image the original foundation doubtfully could have been particularly longlasting
http//images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/21000000/Kaaba-islam-21065722-2031-1263.jpg
Must have given massive erosion on the building. A few hundred years ago the building fell apart just due to this fact.
"After heavy rains and flooding in 1629, the walls of the Kaaba collapsed and the Masjid was damaged. The same year, during the reign of Murad IV, the Kaaba was rebuilt with granite stones from Mecca and the Masjid was renovated. The Kaaba's appearance has not changed since then."
Source http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba
They took the liberty of turning the building into a psychedelic cube at that time for some reason. Ironically it seems as if God wants to swipe the building away hmm
God bless you
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Peace,
Please take a look at the kaaba in 1880. I think the dancing around the building idea must have come recently.
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Kaba.jpg
With all these buildings around it must have been slightly difficult to move around. Feel tricked by kufrs.
Source http//islam.about.com/od/mecca/p/kaaba.htm
"Thousands circle the sacred Kaaba at the centre of the Haram sanctuary 24 hours a day. Millions of homes are adorned with pictures of it and over a billion face it five times a day."
The Mosaic decree "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images"
God bless you
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Good morning,
Another point that just comes to my mind if Kaaba means cube, then it is srange that a building that is not the shape of a cube should be called so. So the Kaaba should be something else (in my opinion it could stand for any human-built construcion, as the cube-shape distinguishes human-built conrucions from natural things like caves). -
I still find it hard to believe that this city is actually the city where Abraham built the "sacred house". If I am not mistaking, the Quran draws attention to olives and grapes, we can't ascertain for sure "where" the verses were revealed unless you accept the traditional account of events. But we can be sure that "whereever" "where" is, it was capable of growing olives and grapes...mecca to me is the last place for any sort of likely soil fertility.
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Peace!, thank you missesDee!
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welcome Salamun Alaykum. I am also a New member to Freeminds.org. Even though I have always knew of this website, for some reason I never made an account on here lol. And I just decided to make one today peace. Nice to meet you brother
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Peace! Thank you violetlynx45! Likewise, glad to see you here too )
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If you take a look at this blueprint you get an idea of how the building looked like before it after the building fell apart a few hundred years ago was re-erected into a psychedelic cube for some reason
http//islamfrominside.com/images/kaaba-plan.png
@MOF
Interesting, somehow I overlooked this information.
Yes it does somehow hinted that it was pointing to the northwest direction.You should create a specific thread on this? (Or you already have and I missed it
@A.Wayne and others
I'm not interested in "finding true qibla" as I believe there's no such thing as one true qibla.
Nor I'm interested in finding the one true house built by Abraham, as it doesn't really matter much.To me it's ridiculous to judge one's morality based on the direction he's facing or whether he believe in this or that.
All those petty stuff that doesn't matter.However I do have interest in history as it tells the background on how certain people developed certain mindset and mentality. Among those mentality is a 'fetish' towards those petty stuff.
And welcome to the forum.
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Peace Jafar,
You should create a specific thread on this? (Or you already have and I missed it )
No. I have not done that. I would create a thread, but there should be a purpose for that first that benefits the society (us?). The forum has enough information on the cube in Mecca that I would only risk repeat the same again.
But I have a feeling it was just a generic church-like building that was picked through wishful thinking to be an idol that suited the "Islamic" propaganda machine. It is likely pointing towards Jerusalem or the mountain of Sinai. I have not calculated its exact heading. If Abraham allegedly built the temple then why would it be pointing the way it does, i.e. towards modern places of importance such as Sinai or Jerusalem, because Sinai received its importance as Moses had the decree revealed on that mountain much later and Jerusalem was important much later. And I am fascinated about how much Abraham traveled through his days and why he allegedly built a whole house in Mecca and promised lands were in today's Israel. It is confusing indeed. And the locale described does not suit Mecca either because it is either a hostile flooded swamp or extremely dry without any fertile soil at all. "Make this a peaceful land and provide for the good people". Most of the year it is a quite hostile environment, and its inhabitants have hostile thoughts of oppressing anyone that is not their kind of Muslim while God said that He would provide for the disobedient too.
The true version is probably that it is a relatively modern temple that was traditionally made to face Jerusalem, and happened to be abused by Islam-corruptors to yield importance because the Arabs likely needed something to retain their standing.
It could however happen that it was made to face mount Sinai and is an old remnant of a past civilization. But the habit of facing and moving around the building has Pagan warnings about it. If you prayed in the original building you had no traditional "qiblah" but simply your intention to show glorification to your Creator. The interesting is that it conflicts with traditional interpretation of "Qur'an" as if you pray inside the building then you face Jerusalem or a place important more so for the so-called "Children of Israel". How to follow your "qiblah" if you pray within the building facing Jerusalem or mount Sinai which is traditionally the "qiblah" of the 'Children of Israel'? It is contradiction, my friend, and automatically explains that the physical prayer direction understanding of "qiblah" is faulty or you would humiliate the ancient Arabic discourse, and follow "their qiblah" contradictorily because you basically face Jerusalem, "the old qiblah".
However, I doubt Jerusalem's accuracy too because I think the area of regard was Mount Sinai before as Moses received the decree upon the mountain, if the traditional mountain is the right one that is. Some source I have indicate that the real Sinai mountain may be further east-southeast. I was to analyze that information myself whenever I had time.
Another falsifying factor for the concept of "qiblah" is that Moses people were told to make "qiblah"s of their homes, i.e. their homes should be focal points for the system of God that they establish God's order within their homes which in return is to start to follow the decree instead of vain desires and the ungodly deeds. Which direction should the "Children of Israel" have faced their buildings anyway? It was before the meeting on Mount Sinai, and I doubt there is any use of facing their prayers towards "the promised lands". And I doubt they prayed towards their homes. The whole idolization of houses is just a trap of Satan.
"Reverence is not turning your faces towards the east or the west..." God tells you Himself that direction is irrelevant.
Now that I start rambling perhaps I ought to create a thread about it anyway. Sorry for hi-jacking the introduction thread.
God bless you
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To me it's ridiculous to judge one's morality based on the direction he's facing or whether he believe in this or that.
All those petty stuff that doesn't matter.However I do have interest in history as it tells the background on how certain people developed certain mindset and mentality. Among those mentality is a 'fetish' towards those petty stuff.
And welcome to the forum.
Peace,
Thanks for the welcome. No, I do not believe that it has anything to do with morality. Indeed which so ever way you turn, there is God. God mentions this place in the positive - that is my only interest. You can only hope to gain something positive, the way we cherish the memories of our past houses (if you've moved and you loved where you lived) - that sort of thing, maybe just a good feeling. I am interested in the roots and learning more about those on whom God The Almighty bestowed His Grace - those successful people He recounts in the Quran. The people mentioned must have lived and operated somewhere ofcourse. I would love to visit one of these places/sites one day and I hope that one day The Almighty will enrich me and give me the opportunity to do so.
