Why you choose your "god"?
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Peace Ahmad Bilal,
Peace, hawk99.
Quoting from the Qur'aan to validate the existence of your deity doesn't help your argument at all; if anything, it severely cripples it.
In your mind......it's.........Wrong, for the believer the quoting of Quran is sufficient. Rather you agree or
not is meaningless.Peace, hawk99.
This isn't really an answer to the question at all
Please check Earthdom's question again!
Peace, hawk99.
Regardless, though, for the record, the same "proofs" that you use to reject certain gods (and goddesses)
are the same proofs that others use to reject YOUR god.True, now isn't that the nature of differences? Then on judgment day we will all find out!
Peace, hawk99.
On a philosophical level, there is nearly no difference between ALLAH, YHVH, Mithra, Krishna, Zeus, Apollo, etc.
If the others that you quote are the lord, sustainer, creator, has no children, nor begotten, etc.,
same as Allah then there is a chance that we are talking about the same Deity, only in a different
language, there is only One God rather you believe the Quran or not does not change the
reality of fact that there is one God.God bless
peace
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Peace, hawk99.
In your mind......it's.........Wrong, for the believer the quoting of Quran is sufficient. Rather you agree or
not is meaningless.Please check Earthdom's question again!
The reason I posted the response I gave to your answer is because you (e.g. the readers) were asked to give a valid reason why you accept the authenticity of your god and reject the gods of others. Your response was simply that the other gods do not exist. Again, the problem with your answer is that it doesn't establish a basis of validity. Again, nearly every monotheistic religion says that the other gods (of other religious bodies) don't actually exist, asserting that their god is the "real" god. And that's why quoting the Qur'aan cripples your point.
What your point suggests, in a sense, is that the reality of God is restricted to a regional state if you're born in a certain part of the world, such as a region in Saudi Arabia, then you will know who the "true god" is, since you'll be raised and influenced by the Islamic culture within the society. Otherwise, if you're from an area that has no Islamic influence, among a people that doesn't know or accept the authenticity of your holy book, then you'll never really know who this "true god" is, and you'll be restricted and doomed to believe in someone (or something) that 'doesn't really exist'.
If the others that you quote are the lord, sustainer, creator, has no children, nor begotten, etc.,
same as Allah then there is a chance that we are talking about the same Deity, only in a different
language, there is only One God rather you believe the Quran or not does not change the
reality of fact that there is one God.I agree with your statement on the basis of the Islamic depiction of ALLAH... But, again, who determines that those are God's actual attributes? Suppose the "true god" does have children, was begotten by divine parentage, did not create the Universe, etc. - what effect would this have on your ideology? If we could (theoretically) "prove" that there is an actual divine character somewhere in, or even outside of, the Universe, how do you know that there is only one? When it comes to identifying truth in philosophy, simply saying, "I know that ALLAH is the only god because he (or the holy book that I attribute to him) says so," doesn't cut it.
That would be equivalent to me saying, "I know that the true and only god is Brahman (or 'Atman' because it says so in the Rig Veda! All of the other gods don't really exist." Does my (theoretical) view sound objective? Would you, as a Muslim, be inclined to adopt that viewpoint, declaring that ALLAH is a 'false god', simply because it says so in MY holy book? If you asked me why I chose to worship a certain god, and I said, "I didn't choose him! The great Lord Krishna chose me to serve him; ALLAH can't choose you because he's imaginary" - does that sound like a sound explanation to you?
What, other than the holy book that you claim to be "inspired" (whatever that means to you), makes the idea of the reality of ALLAH any more VALID than the reality of Vishnu? How do you make the determination of who's real and who isn't?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Ahmad Bilal.
How are you? We conversed in the past about a similar topic.
Please allow me to make the following point of why I choose my "God"?
Reason and Faith,/not reason or faith?
"... The darkness sacramental of the Eucharist is unfathomable. Besides, if it were intelligible, it would not be divine. If the God we serve could be understood by reason, he would not worth to be served, said Tauler *; ... if the works of God were such that the intelligence of man could easily grasp them, they cease to be wonderful and could not be described as ineffable. "
- John Tauler, theologian of the 14th
This excerpt, by Joris-Karl Huysmans, in his book, "En route", describes the struggle of the majority of people with the concept that faith coincides with reason. The dichotomy between faith and reason is disastrous as it leads to an illusory perception of this world.
We are fortunate to live in an age where scientific and technological advances allow a better understanding of the precise physical and biological laws of this world. Unfortunately, divine grace always exposes the human's ingratitude. Most people are convinced that reason and science prove the in-existence of God rather than His existence. The more they attain knowledge about the laws and systems of the entire universe, the more they incline to believe that the creation of the universe and the repetition of creation they witness every second passes by are accidental! They, thus, conclude that those laws and systems simply exist haphazardly. How irrational and ironic! Laws and systems do not exist without a supreme intelligence and an omnipotent source to establish them. If they were haphazardly set, how would they constantly perform in such sophistication, precision, consistency, coordination and harmony? Reason that does not lead to faith in a Supreme Authority does not reveal the entire truth. It is flawed since it cannot be fully traced, backed up and verified.
Most people, no matter what you do, will not believe.
You are not asking them for any money; you simply deliver this reminder for all the people.
So many proofs in the heavens and the earth are given to them, but they pass by them, heedlessly!Have you noted the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord, though God had given him kingship? Abraham said, "My Lord grants life and death." He said, "I grant life and death." Abraham said, "God brings the sun from the east, can you bring it from the west?" The disbeliever was stumped. God does not guide the wicked.
Another irony is that the majority of those who believe in God go to the other extreme and abolish all forms of reason! Their spiritual path becomes illogical and mystical. It is based on superstition and concepts that contradict both commonsense and the physical laws of this world. Without questioning or verifying, they repeat their ancestral religious practices or follow their opinions and traditions even if they contradict the scripture they claim to uphold. Thus, they lead a life with a fake spirit and unauthentic identity that has nothing to do with the title of their faith.. They are diverted from the path of God, without knowing, supported by Satan who always promotes idol worship under the guise of monotheism. Faith without reason does not reveal the entire truth. Faith without reason is also flawed and fake since it can not be fully traced, backed up and verified.
Say, "This is my path I invite to God, on the basis of a clear proof, and so do those who follow me. God be glorified. I am not an idol worshiper."
If you ask them, "Who created the heavens and the earth, and put the sun and the moon in your service," they will say, "God." Why then did they deviate?
God is the One who increases the provision for whomever He chooses from among His creatures, and withholds it. God is fully aware of all things.
If you ask them, "Who sends down from the sky water, to revive dead land," they will say, "God." Say, "Praise God." Most of them do not understand.
This worldly life is no more than vanity and play, while the abode of the Hereafter is the real life, if they only knew.Do you not realize that God merges the night into the day and merges the day into the night, and that He has committed the sun and the moon in your service, each running in its orbit for a specific life span, and that God is fully Cognizant of everything you do?
When they are told, "Follow what God has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?
The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords, instead of God. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners.
Say, "Can any of your idols initiate creation, then repeat it?" Say, "God initiates the creation, then repeats it. How could you deviate?"
Say, "Does any of your idols guide to the truth?" Say, "God guides to the truth. Is one who guides to the truth more worthy of being followed, or one who does not guide, and needs guidance for himself? What is wrong with your judgment?"This systematic opposition between the truth of faith and truth of reason is absurd. The truth stands by itself as ONE, VERIFIABLE and COHERENT TRUTH with no conditions or contradictions. If something is not true, then it has to be false and unverifiable. Reason, by itself, cannot and will not stand behind or justify creation, life and death. Blind, man-made faith that does not acknowledge science cannot stand behind or explain why we are here. There has to be one supremacy and one intelligence, a source and a founder of all facts, scientific and religious. That is God, the Creator, the Designer and the Artisan. He is that ONE, VERIFIABLE and COHERENT TRUTH. That is why the truth of reason & science and truth of faith are one and the same; they describe the same reality.
Who is you "god"? Each have to answer for themselves. Proofs are for the believers.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Ahmad Bilal,
Peace, hawk99.
The reason I posted the response I gave to your answer is because you (e.g. the readers) were asked to give a valid reason why you accept the authenticity of your god and reject the gods of others. Your response was simply that the other gods do not exist.
There is only one God, if you noticed, the creator, sustainer, all knowing, the all aware, the absolute ruler etc., may
be called by different names in different cultures, these are concepts describing the lord of the universe who is not local,
but the one omnipotent God of all. I am not describing a cultural, local Deity. If the earth disappeared there would still
be God, God is far above what you, I, or anyone can comprehend.Peace, hawk99.
Again, the problem with your answer is that it doesn't establish a basis of validity. Again, nearly every monotheistic religion says that the other gods (of other religious bodies) don't actually exist, asserting that their god is the "real" god. And that's why quoting the Qur'aan cripples your point.
This is strictly your conclusion based on your own intellect, (no offense), because that is all you are relying on.
First you agree
Peace, hawk99.
I agree with your statement on the basis of the Islamic depiction of ALLAH[/b
Then disagree
Peace, hawk99.
But, again, who determines that those are God's actual attributes? Suppose the "true god" does have children, was begotten by divine parentage, did not create the Universe, etc. - what effect would this have on your ideology? If we could (theoretically) "prove" that there is an actual divine character somewhere in, or even outside of, the Universe, how do you know that there is only one? When it comes to identifying truth in philosophy, simply saying, "I know that ALLAH is the only god because he (or the holy book that I attribute to him) says so," doesn't cut it.As previously stated "Quran is sufficient for the believers"
Let's make this easy for you, there are different faiths/religions/deens/paths, there is nothing to prove.
to you be your way, to me be mine.
May your search be fruitful!
God bless
peace
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Peace, good logic.
I certainly appreciate your response, and I agree with some of it... I think there's a big separation between FAITH and REASON, and this separation is bigger than most people realize. In fact, I don't think they can really coexist, especially in the context of the scientific model.
For starters, faith is, by definition, believing in something that you can't see (e.g. detect with the senses, instrumentation, etc.). Most people cling to a faith-based concept regardless of "truth", and this is most prevalent in a religious setting. Most adherents don't really care what the "truth" is; they simply choose to believe whatever their deity, prophet, messenger, saint, religious leader or holy book says, regardless of whether it can be substantiated or not. If science disagrees with the words provided by one of those sources, then SCIENCE IS WRONG, regardless of the proof it has shown concerning the matter and regardless of how reasonable the explanation is. Ultimately, religion is about beliefs, and science is about facts (e.g. knowledge). Many people falsely conclude that BELIEVING something and KNOWING something are the same thing, when, in reality, they're completely different. And, unfortunately, most religious people will happily reject facts (knowledge) for the sake of their beliefs.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace, hawk99.
If that's your stance, then so be it. I simply said that you didn't answer the question proposed. If that's good with you, then it's good with me... But, for the record, what you provided is, quite clearly, a perfect example of BLIND FAITH/BELIEF. And again, if that's how you choose to live your life, then 'good luck' (as a figure of speech) to you on your path.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Ahmad Bilal
Peace, hawk99.
But, for the record, what you provided is, quite clearly, a perfect example of BLIND FAITH/BELIEF.
Erroneous conclusion,
While you tout a "scientific" approach your conclusions are purely personal, unscientific and immature.
The questioned was answered, you simply didn't like the answer. Why not try answering the question for
us then you will get the answer you seek!peace
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Peace Ahmad Bilal and everyone else,
It is true that one wants to be able to confirm and feel inside that what you believe in is really true and that the one you serve is responsive. It is that problem when it comes to Faith and God etc that you have little to go on so that for an external viewer it seems like blind Faith while for the one in question it is very real. It is already concluded that we cannot prove God so it could be regarded as truly blind Faith as you say. It is probably a completely intuitive thing with God and either you believe or you do not believe.
I cannot prove to you that God real even if I have personal signs that God is for real and you can claim that I blindly believe in God too while I cannot prove you wrong. And what is God is an invisible energy in the Universe too, according to my Faith, so thus it turns even harder to really explain what it is that I believe in.
And I can understand that you think that those that believe in God, or a supernatural being, are imagining things which could be a viable conclusion from taking the whole thing into consideration.
I can say that I know God is real, but I can never reach more consensus with someone who does not think so and we can only settle at that I believe in God, and nor can I prove that God is real either. To you it seems that I have blind Faith in something that I delusively believe in and it may also seem like I waste my energy on this matter.
God bless you
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Peace,
The blind faith analogy is flawed because the outside viewer is making an assumption that in some cases the
adherent is following parents or local customs, while there are those who do follow blindly, that is generally not
true here at free-minds. Without knowing a particular person one cannot reasonably "jump" to such a conclusion.
The reverse argument being that the believer demand that the non-believer supply proof to the believer that God
does not exist, thereupon the believer could reasonably conclude that the non-believer has "blind faith" in whatever
system used to come to their conclusion. The argument in and of itself is preloaded to make the point of the initiator.
I'll take Abraham over all the folks who think that they possess intelligence.And when Ibrahim said My Lord! show me how Thou givest life to the dead, He said What! and do you not
believe? He said Yes, but that my heart may be at ease. He said Then take four of the birds, then train them
to follow you, then place on every mountain a part of them, then call them, they will come to you flying; and
know that Allah is Mighty, Wise. 2/260God bless
peace
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Peace with you all sun
Question from Earthdom
"So please give the valid reasons for-What the reasons you choose your current "god" to worship?
My reason to accept God is because I know there must be one who has created this universe. In our universe happens too much coincidences, so after all, those can't be called as such because there are too many. I think there is one God for us all but only different named by each religion. God can't be a human, but if so, then why we (humanoids) don't have poverty as that human god has?
As a child I didn't have so much opportunity to exchange my attitude on believing system with the others. There were sings in the nature for me as proof for one creator who initialized that everything cooperate with each other and everything need to be in balance. Perfect! Everything in the nature do that how God has commanded; So has to be because so is the law. But there is a hitch with us people We don't cooperate .... have free will. That is what can be related to some verses in Qoran, as expl. birds behavior, sun and moon trace, different animals, plants, human body etc. Free will is simply to choice that or this. It isn't so simple to say that all of us have a choice free. What about occult clan those people never heard about God? They have another believing system.
I do believe in the other scriptures, Psalm, Torah, Evangelium .... why not? that is for me all the same because they talks about one God. What some people does with religion or scripture is another issue to discuss. A religion is that what people make out of it, their believing system. God system is one, or do we have different laws for one thing in e.g. mathematics. Except physics, chemistry because they are different for the reason other circumstances/environment like here and out there in the space.-What the reasons you reject another "gods" beside yours? (to members who already studied/experienced some religions)."
See above!
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Peace, Man of Faith.
It is already concluded that we cannot prove God so it could be regarded as truly blind Faith as you say. It is probably a completely intuitive thing with God and either you believe or you do not believe.
I don't think this is the case... If ALLAH (God) is represented as nature (e.g. Universe, energy, matter, etc.), then we can certainly prove (e.g. authenticate) his existence, because he is literally everywhere around us. That's the view I choose to adopt. People choose to call ALLAH by many names, but he's nearly always being described as something that existed from the beginning - the "spark", the initiator, or the 'creator' of everything around us, and even within us. One man even told me that he believes that ALLAH is the first atom of the Universe, which multiplied itself infinitely until we arrived at the point in which we exist today, suggesting that ALLAH literally exists within everything.
The reasoning may be different, but we're ultimately saying the same thing...
And I can understand that you think that those that believe in God, or a supernatural being, are imagining things which could be a viable conclusion from taking the whole thing into consideration.
Do you believe that "supernaturalism" is synonymous with divinity? Or, can God be seen WITHIN nature itself?
I can say that I know God is real, but I can never reach more consensus with someone who does not think so and we can only settle at that I believe in God, and nor can I prove that God is real either. To you it seems that I have blind Faith in something that I delusively believe in and it may also seem like I waste my energy on this matter.
I'm not saying this at all... I don't disagree with the notion of divinity (e.g. gods and goddesses, etc.) - it's the TYPE of divinity that I don't understand. What makes a specific being (or object) a "god"? Does something need to be considered 'supernatural' and 'beyond comprehension' to be recognized as being "divine"? And, if not, what's wrong with having a naturalistic conception of God, one that can be proven by science and logic? Here are a few examples
When people say, "God is beyond human comprehension," then they contradict the notion of him communicating with humans. When they say, "God is supernatural," they contradict the notion of him delving in human affairs. When people say, "God is real," they inadvertently reject the notion of him being supernatural at all (since supernaturalism is 'beyond' the scope our perceived 'reality', and therefore, literally, 'not real'. When people say, "God loves me," then we restrict him to human emotions and contradict the notion of him being 'beyond' humanity. When we say, "God is here," then we are contradicting the notion of him being 'there'. When people say, "God is not like anyone or anything else," then they conflict with his depiction of having attributes that relate to humanity (e.g. MOST merciful, MOST powerful, MOST just, MOST forgiving, BEST knower, ALL wise, etc.). When people say, "God knows everything," then they contradict the notion of humans having the ability to choose right from wrong (e.g. having 'free will', since the choice has already been made within a future context, and they have no option to do the 'right' thing if God has already prewritten and predestined that they will do the 'wrong' thing, etc... Do you see the conflict here?
This is what makes "god", in most religious circles, undefinable and dismissible, since people have literally turned him into an unsolvable philosophical paradox. If God is ALL of those things, then he CAN'T exist, because those ideas completely contradict each other. Again, it isn't about God not being real - that ultimately depends on the kind of god we're talking about.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace, hawk99.
The blind faith analogy is flawed because the outside viewer is making an assumption that in some cases the
adherent is following parents or local customs, while there are those who do follow blindly, that is generally not
true here at free-minds. Without knowing a particular person one cannot reasonably "jump" to such a conclusion.
The reverse argument being that the believer demand that the non-believer supply proof to the believer that God
does not exist, thereupon the believer could reasonably conclude that the non-believer has "blind faith" in whatever
system used to come to their conclusion. The argument in and of itself is preloaded to make the point of the initiator.
I'll take Abraham over all the folks who think that they possess intelligence.And when Ibrahim said My Lord! show me how Thou givest life to the dead, He said What! and do you not
believe? He said Yes, but that my heart may be at ease. He said Then take four of the birds, then train them
to follow you, then place on every mountain a part of them, then call them, they will come to you flying; and
know that Allah is Mighty, Wise. 2/260The "blind faith" concept is very accurate in the depiction of most religious people. The core idea of it is, if you choose to believe in a deity, then you should be able to PROVE (e.g. verify, authenticate, etc.) the existence of this being through logical and/or scientific means. That doesn't mean pulling out your personal holy book and saying, "See, God is real - he says so right here!" That type of argument is fallacious. And that's the basis of 'blind faith'; people literally believe in a being they can't explain or comprehend, let alone prove to be real. They, quite literally, blindly put their faith in a paradoxical idea that can never be substantiated.
By the way, the Qur'aanic passage you posted isn't about Abraham (e.g. Ibrahiym, Avraham, Abram, etc.) verifying the existence of God; it's about him asking God for "proof" regarding his claim of giving life to the dead. Again, even according to this passage, requesting proof isn't wrong - even ALLAH (God) himself gave Abraham a form of verifiable proof concerning what he planned to do... Of course, this wouldn't be possible, though, if ALLAH was completely beyond human comprehension. How could he exist beyond our realm of thought while still 'talking' to Abraham, providing Moses (e.g. Musa) with stone tablets, giving Muhammad a 'revelation', etc.?
If your god is a paradox, which can't be explained logically and/or scientifically and can't be authenticated, then you are indeed a "blind follower". It's as simple as that.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Hi everyone
This thread not only directed to muslims, but also members from various beliefs (Christian, Hindhu etc).
I belief members in here have good intelectual and I also believe if members in here have the valid reason for why choose this "god" to worship for (for muslim = Allah/God, for Christian= Jesus etc).
So please give the valid reasons for
-What the reasons you choose your current "god" to worship?
-What the reasons you reject another "gods" beside yours? (to members who already studied/experienced some religions).NOTE -No debate, rudeness and jokes.
-If you don't understand what I mean, then jusk ask me.
-Please visit http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606230.msg347187#newPeace
I understand no debate, rudeness, or jokes are allowed, but I myself am a joke, can I still post here seriously? Well forgive me for my existence, but I will answer your question.
I choose my God because my God is the the absolute logical truth which I make clear and has nothing to do with faith at all or preference. In fact I'm quite displeased with God, but what I call God is just a matter of fact, and I call nothing less than Fact to be God.