Jose Mujica - Atheist
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Peace Yuliana,
raise hand
Peace Man of faith,
I have always loved reading your posts and I would really appreciate your input on this too if you are ok with it.
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Peace oneandonly.
Doe not answer the question for you?
22 17 ? Those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Converts ( to any religion), the Christians, the Zoroastrians ( and any name you wish to give to man s religion) and the idol worshipers ( and the Muslims, Hindus, the thousands of religious sects, the disbelievers, the Atheists, etc?) GGOD is the one who will judge among them on the day of resurrection. OD witnesses all things.?
(In brackets are my words.May th Lord forgive me if I am wrong !)
We cannot possibly know what is deep in the hearts of people.How good they really are!GOD bless.
Peace to you. -
Peace oneandonly.
Doe not answer the question for you?
22 17 ? Those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Converts ( to any religion), the Christians, the Zoroastrians ( and any name you wish to give to man s religion) and the idol worshipers ( and the Muslims, Hindus, the thousands of religious sects, the disbelievers, the Atheists, etc?) GGOD is the one who will judge among them on the day of resurrection. OD witnesses all things.?
(In brackets are my words.May th Lord forgive me if I am wrong !)
We cannot possibly know what is deep in the hearts of people.How good they really are!GOD bless.
Peace to you.Based on above, I am assuming that a atheist can still be forgiven on the day of resurrection (depending on God's decision). Correct?
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http//www.godlessgirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/85.jpg
I like the picture
Peace
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Peace oneandonly.
As I understand the only sin that cannot be forgiven is " Shirk" if one has not repented before death
Does the Atheist practise shirk?
The answer to your question depends on the answer to my question.
Peace to you.
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Peace oneandonly,
It is hard to say depending on that the decision lies on God and not us, but he clearly must have much goodness in him. He may have some personal spiritual Faith within himself but know the chaotic state of the religions in the world and does not want to be affiliated with them. Perhaps he calls himself atheist because of this.
Or perhaps goodness exists without Faith and maybe God will forgive him for his good nature and that he did not commit much shirk. He has a much bigger chance of entering Heaven than many people who believe in God I am sure. Behavior and good deeds count for much in God's system.
Again I must say that his destiny lies in God's hands and all the good he does might help him in the courtroom of God at the end of days. And like I said, he has a way bigger chance to go to Heaven than many people who believe, because good deeds are valuable and weighs heavy with God.
God bless you
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Peace,
I wish exactly the same. however, my question was what happens to those who has good character, attitude and deeds but do not believe in god (according quran, bible, torah or any religious teaching).
It depends on one's definition of God.
Many eastern religious teaching do not believe in God.
At least in 'personal God' as commonly viewed by people in the west (middle east included).Buddhist, Taoist do not believe in existence of personal God.
From the 'westerners' perspective they're Atheist because buddhist, taoist do not believe / subscribe to their view of personal God.Buddhism express a philosophical belief in a representation of omnipresent enlightenment and a symbol of the true nature of the universe where everything timelessly arises and dissolves.
Taoist express a philosophical belief in something called Tao, which is more like a 'water' which penetrate every aspect of this universe. Tao is unlimited in all dimension, it doesn't have any beginning thus it has no ends. Tao is not a name or a thing and it's different than a thing which can be named, yet all the things and name is manifestation of Tao.
The good thing about Taoism and Buddhism is that they don't enforce anyone to subscribe to their view and deem that as not important, the most important thing is one's action and deed (Karma). And they don't really care either if other people labeled them as Atheist.
This Jose Mujica is an Uruguajo, a place where Religion = Catholic Church and God as three divine persons.
If you reject God as three divine persons in Uruguay (and have other views about God / Cosmology) they you'll be categorized as Atheist.They think god does not even exist but everything is based on evolution or something.
Everything in this universe is evolving... the only thing that doesn't change is the change itself, it's the truth.
Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism have mentioned about 'continuous evolution' since many centuries ago.
If because as thus, they're categorized as atheist, then so be it..Salam / Peace
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what is certain ?
those who disbelieved in Ayaatina, will be on the left-hand side (90.19) <- guaranteed to the hell fire
and . .
I believe it is almost impossible to succeed without guidance from the Quran
because the prohibition in the Quran is so simple that anyone would think that it is okay to do such and such, but it is not okay to Allah
e.g. do not approach this tree (2.35) <- this may sound ridiculous, but it is the cause of Adam to slip out (disqualified) from heaven
do not ask about things which, if they are shown to you, will distress you (5.101)
but there is no religion and . .
To each of you We prescribed a law and a method
Had Allah willed
He would have made you one nationbut to test you
in what He has given you
so race to good
To Allah is your return all together
and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ
(5.48)and ..
Indeed, IT IS A NOBLE QURAN
In a protected Book <- light upon light
None can grasp it
except those purified (from shirk)
(5677-79)and ..
No! Indeed, the record of the righteous is in 'illiyyun
And what can make you know what is 'illiyyun?
(8318-19)No! Indeed, the record of the wicked is in sijjeen.
And what can make you know what is sijjeen?
(837-8)Therefore, no one know and . .
O you who believe! take care of your souls (5.105)
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He seems to be an perfect example of humanity in current world and knowingly or unknowingly following God's path.
salaam oneandonly
the problem you raised is, for me, very complex and presupposes answering other questions before.
-What is God's path ?
-Are we here to make good and not bad ? is that the problematic ?
-Will Allah allow unbelievers to live his paradise if they have done good actions ?
-Is Chaytan goes sad when humans do good actions ? Is he happy when good actions are done to astray people away from Allah ?
-Is Allah love for all humans or only for who follows him ?
-and of course, what is Jenna and What is Nar ?peace
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Shalom Aleikhem OneandOnly,
Based on above, I am assuming that a atheist can still be forgiven on the day of resurrection (depending on God's decision). Correct?
Forgiven for what? For refusing to believe in one of thousands of virtually identical claims about the existence of a supernatural deity despite not being able to verify and justify it at least to him/herself? How is that a crime? For example, let's say that you are a medical doctor. Now lets say that I don't believe that you are a medical doctor. So what? Would you send me to a concentration camp because I concluded based on the knowledge I have that you probably aren't a doctor? You have to be terribly insecure and a criminally insane psychopath to treat someone like that. The same goes for any god/goddess/deity that does such things to people.
By no definition is that model of a God a "good" one!! In fact, if that concept of God is "good", I don't know what's left to label as pinnacle of evil!!
Peace
-------------- Student of Allah -
Forgiven for what? For refusing to believe in one of thousands of virtually identical claims about the existence of a supernatural deity despite not being able to verify and justify it at least to him/herself? How is that a crime?
I hope someday you'll back to believe in Allah. )
I truly hope for it, and I hope you notice that your attitude become harsh now, brother, if compare with you in the past.
I've ever read some of your writings to learn, I suppose you wrote those when you still support God.
Peace.
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Shalom Aleikhem JavaLatte,
I hope someday you'll back to believe in Allah. )
Ok. I hope someday you and the world will stop falling for such things.
I truly hope for it, and I hope you notice that your attitude become harsh now, brother, if compare with you in the past.
I've ever read some of your writings to learn, I suppose you wrote those when you still support God.
I don't think my attitude has become "harsh". However, I do understand what you are talking about. You see my friend, the trouble is that whatever I say now will most likely go against the things you hold dear to you and believe in strongly. That makes it difficult for me to make my point without challenging the things you believe so strongly. I am sure that the traditional hadith following muslims felt the same way when I criticized them when I used to be a Qur'an alone follower.
You see my friend, in my last post on this thread, I've made a good point about forgiveness. Why don't you show me how I am wrong? I still stand by the point I made, not to be harsh but for the sake of following the truth. I have also given the example of a doctor there to help the reader understand how psychotic it would be for someone to be so mad at me for merely not believing in them that they go and put me in a lake of fire!! How about you address that point and explain how that behavior is "good" behavior? I can assure you that I do not mean to be offensive for the sake of it.
If you look at my old posts in the forum, you will realize that I was always outspoken and always tried my best to advance my argument against something by attacking any idea/argument the opponent might have presented. The only difference is that Qur'an alone muslims didn't get to taste it as the cannon was always aimed at non-Qur'an alone people. Once again, I apologize if I am coming across as too harsh. I am not harsh unless what you are promoting is really that ludicrous that it necessitates a response that matches the intensity of the inherent absurdity of your object of promotion. In my last post, I didn't criticized that kind of a psychopath-model of a God just to be harsh. I did it to keep things real and make people look at the bigger picture where they are talking about pleasing an insecure psychopath, not a loving sane God.
PEACE
---------------- Student of Allah -
Salam brother.
Ok. I hope someday you and the world will stop falling for such things.
But how come you think that I'm falling? Do you think 'believe in God' is a bad thing?
The reason why I believe in God because I can't deny that I see and feel His signs.
I can't resist God's signs and I don't want to resist, inshaAllah.
I don't think my attitude has become "harsh". However, I do understand what you are talking about.
Thank you.
I am sure that the traditional hadith following muslims felt the same way when I criticized them when I used to be a Qur'an alone follower.
It could be, but perhaps deep down inside they know that man-made hadith is wrong.
You see my friend, in my last post on this thread, I've made a good point about forgiveness. Why don't you show me how I am wrong? I still stand by the point I made, not to be harsh but for the sake of following the truth.
Bold That's good. D
If you keep insist to follow the truth, then inshaAllah someday you'll back to believe in Allah.
I have also given the example of a doctor there to help the reader understand how psychotic it would be for someone to be so mad at me for merely not believing in them that they go and put me in a lake of fire!!
I suppose you look very upset when you think that Allah will punish you for the reason that you don't believe in Him.
When you (or even me) don't believe that someone is a medical doctor, then of course I don't think it'll be a crime. I think it's fine if we don't believe in something like that.
However, I think your example is not suitable.
You cannot compare such example with believe in God. )
Peace, and thank you for being polite.
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Shalom Aleikhem JavaLatte,
For anyone reading this(including JavaLatte) I am writing this the way I see things. I won't sugarcoat anything just so that I can be as honest as possible throughout the post. I don't mind if my post makes you feel a bit comfortable as its a very little price to pay for ANYONE who is "actually" looking for the truth.
As for JavaLatte You mentioned that you have been through my posts from the past and learnt things. Why should it be any different now? I am not asking you to accept whatever I say dogmatically. I will try to reason and not claim things I can not provide evidence for. I have not changed in that regards, so you should still be able to learn things. On top of that, I can promise you that I am more honest in this search of truth now than I ever was.
But how come you think that I'm falling?
Religion exploits the tendency our pattern-seeking primate brain has towards believing. People fall victim to this scam. Throughout human history, no evidence has been ever brought forth proving the existence of a God, let alone a specific god like your god for example. Although it is possible that you can be that ONE PERSON who finally proves the existence of a God and gets a Nobel prize for it, I assumed that that's unlikely. Therefore, it logically followed that you are just like everyone else, believing in things like that without adequate rational justification.
Do you think 'believe in God' is a bad thing?
I will not bring up the intellectuals that have been killed and persecuted because of the "God beliefs" all throughout human history. Let me not bring up the wars and atrocities that just "beliefs in Gods" aided throughout history. Let me not talk about all my sisters who have always been subjugated and are still being subjugated because of these misogynistic "God beliefs". Let me not tell you a word about how such "God beliefs" paralyzed half of humanity ( females) through every form of discrimination known to man. Let me not bring up how many people were tortured because of the results of these God beliefs, ranging from lashing in public all the way up to chopping off of hands, stoning to death, beheading etc. Let me not bring up how these "beliefs in God" gave the lazy thinkers a divine mandate to rape,loot,kill and enslave my brothers and sisters all throughout the world. Rapes and genocides decreed straight from these "Gods" and revered and respected by followers like you who fail to see the evil in them because "one shouldn't compare our activities with what God mandates". I won't talk about all the things I just mentioned but I will not end the post here in the honor of all the souls that suffered throughout the ages because of this gateway drug "belief in God" paving the way for so much evil. It is because I love them despite having met them that I will stand here today and not let you get away with your defense of a pathetically disastrous belief system.
Is "belief in God" a bad thing? Not inherently. There is nothing intrinsically wrong about believing in anything. What makes it either good or bad is the reason why you believe in something. No one has ever been able to demonstrate the existence of any such deities and therefore throughout human civilization people have only come up with absurd fallacious reasoning to justify their beliefs in Gods/Goddesses. The amount of uncritical thinking and dependency on logical fallacies it takes to believe in such Gods ultimately results in something really bad. It makes the belief in God like a gateway drug making it easier for one's mind to accept other absurd and ridiculous things.
On top of this belief being irrational and bad, it actually teaches otherwise sane people to be astonishingly arrogant and dishonest. If I told you that I know that there are 9876 alien life forms in the universe, wouldn't you wonder how I know that? Would it be fine if I said vague things like "I get the fuzzy feeling that I am right" or "I can see it written all over the universe in spiritual signs that there are 9876 alien life forms in the entire universe"? This is where religion gets a free pass. YOU get to sit there and claim KNOWLEDGE about the existence of some deity who created the universe without ever having to justify it with reason and evidence. You won't accept my claims if I said that THERE JUST HAS TO BE 9876 alien life forms because I believe it with all my heart and I am right, will you? I am sure you will turn into what an average atheist is always accused of being, empiricist!! You will ask for actual evidence to be provided instead of me telling you vague things about my feelings or seeing random signs that aren't anything objective.
Take the example of how you deal with traditional hadith following muslims. I am sure you will NEVER accept their position to be TRUE if they tell you things like "I believe we must follow hadiths because I can feel it deep within me" or "I believe we can follow hadith because I saw the signs!!" I salute you for not accepting that kind of garbage reasoning. However, I do not like how in order to preserve your "belief in God", you have to be a hypocrite and demand evidence from hadith followers while simultaneously resting your beliefs on such ridiculously bad reasoning. Heck!! One can't even account for the "word of God" that they base everything on!! Otherwise, would you mind coming and posting on this thread (click me) and showing the rest of the world how you would go about historically verifying that the Qur'an you have is the original one? Just go to that thread and read my responses and see if you can help out those who claims that Qur'an was preserved. If you can't or if you don't find that necessary, then also stop being hypocritical about the SAME thing when it comes to people who believe in hadiths but can't demonstrate to you how those were ACTUAL sayings.
In short I guess, such beliefs in God needs you to be totally uncritical about the biggest questions humanity has asked and they teach you to be satisfied with BASELESS assertions instead of seeking the actual answers with full honesty and unrestrained devotion to the journey towards the truth.
The reason why I believe in God because I can't deny that I see and feel His signs.
You do know that you are making almost a factual claim there, right? If these are those vague subjective "fuzzy feeling" based and deeply rooted in arguments from ignorance type "signs", then whatever I said previously should help you see they are all baseless. It is generally understood and universally accepted that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Only when it comes to religious people do we see the exact opposite being held as the norm. The bigger the claim the less the evidence. You are making a gigantic claim about something that is factual here. What standard of evidence allows you to posit a belief in such a serious and big claim based only on vague things like "seeing signs"? Would you be willing to test it out? Why don't you present your case for God and demonstrate to us how logically you deduce from whatever sign that "a God does exist and it is your God"?
It must be so convenient, isn't it? Heck! Even the followers of convicted frauds like Joseph Smith ( founder of Mormon religion) uses these excuses to justify why they believed in the claims of Joseph Smith. We have managed to create a society/civilization where it is alright for anyone to believe any absurd impossibility as long as they use the faith/religion card.
It can be that you actually have the evidence that theists all over the world throughout human history have been looking for to demonstrate the existence of their God/Gods/Goddess/Goddesses. How about you just accept this request and demonstrate why your beliefs are justified with evidence and reason instead of fuzzy feelings? (We can have our own thread for this)
I can't resist God's signs and I don't want to resist, inshaAllah.
Asserting it over and over again won't bring it into existence. You have to DEMONSTRATE that it is true. Me saying that when I look at the sky I feel the presence of Zeus and I see his glory doesn't convince you of the truth of what I say, does it? In the same way, you can't hope for any rational thinker to take you seriously unless you bring evidence to the table to back up your big claims about creator/creators of our universe. Not to mention that your claims are identical to the claims of virtually people from all religions and cults. What makes it more embarrassing is that your claims aren't that much different from people who are locked up in the insane asylums or mental wards of mental hospitals.
It could be, but perhaps deep down inside they know that man-made hadith is wrong.
That is the arrogance right there!! If not that, then its a serious lack of respect for other people's sincerity. Since when do you know how sincere every single person is in the depth of their being? Is it the case that you know that the Qur'an is wrong and still insist on following it? Wouldn't you feel disrespected if someone was trying to imply that you actually are pretending to believe in the Qur'an alone interpretation of Islam? So please, don't say such things about others. People can be wrong, that doesn't automatically make them liars. For example, I believe that your position is wrong since I don't believe in a God. However, that is not to say that I think that you know in your heart that Qur'an is actually wrong and you are just pretending!! That kind of behavior requires a lot of disrespect for your fellow human being and not to mention, arrogance.
If you keep insist to follow the truth, then inshaAllah someday you'll back to believe in Allah.
In that case you should be able to demonstrate how
- A God exists
- It is your God
If you can't do that, then you must see why I can not treat your beliefs any differently than I treat the beliefs of the vikings or the ancient Greeks.
I suppose you look very upset when you think that Allah will punish you for the reason that you don't believe in Him.
No, I am not actually upset that one Arab God out of the thousands human beings have made up throughout history will punish me. What bothers me the most is how this "belief in God" robs people of their basic sense of morality and rapes their sense of dignity and self-worth. It is stupefying how people are willing to overlook the most cruel and insane practice of evilness if its done by their Gods/Goddesses. I am upset how otherwise decent people like you who will not let others even slap me if I don't believe in them will end up kissing the as of a God when he sends me to hell fire!! Simply I couldn't believe!! That is abject slavery!! That has nothing to do with love or reason. That is one hideous monster. I don't know about a single human being who isn't more merciful than such an insecure intolerant bigoted ignoramus. If this is who you think is "most merciful", then you should go join the Adolph Hitler fanclub. That Nazi leader was similar to this model of God that you are proposing. All it took was the leader(Hitler) to not like some people. Those people were gathered and sent to concentration camps to be tortured to death!! Thats a demonstration of the "might makes you right" philosophy. Your God is no different than those bigoted Nazis. In fact, your God is infinitely more worse than Nazis. The reason being that a person in the concentration camp can at least fucking die and leave the camp!!! There is no such thing for promises by these Gods for eternal horror and torment in the hell they created for disbelievers like me.
I am only upset that otherwise sane people like you don't see through this and still insist on kissing the a*s of such a God. The truth is that I wouldn't even worship such a monster EVEN IF IT ACTUALLY EXISTED. I refuse to bow down to such intolerant bigots simply because they are more powerful than I am. I know that such a horrible monster with sufficient power can decide to put me in hell. However, I also know that at any given day/time/moment, I am a billion times morally superior to what that kind of a hideous monster can ever dream of becoming.
When you (or even me) don't believe that someone is a medical doctor, then of course I don't think it'll be a crime. I think it's fine if we don't believe in something like that.
That is when your brain is reasoning and trying to use your sense of justice to deduce if merely not being convinced that person is a medical doctor should be a crime, let alone a crime deserving hell-fire!!
However, I think your example is not suitable.
You cannot compare such example with believe in God. )
And this is where religion utterly rapes your sense of justice. It screws up your sense of empathy for your fellow human being. You know to be empathetic because you know what pain is, you probably felt it in one shape way or form. You know what justice is because you have the ability to equate a given crime with a given sentence. Nobody was comparing belief in God with believing someone is a doctor. That example was analogous in the sense that in both cases the person doesn't do anything that can possibly harm the other party. Or are you suggesting that as an atheist I do have the power to harm your God? The context of this entire thread is that we are talking about an otherwise good person who simply doesn't believe in God. Then what is left to label as a "crime"? IF you now say that not being able to believe in a claim because you aren't personally convinced of the truth of it is a crime, then you clearly demonstrate what is so wrong with "belief in a God". It makes you do extreme mental gymnastics and say and do horrible and asinine things just to defend a belief that you can't possibly provide evidence for in the first place.
I don't even see how it can ever be a "crime" AT ALL!! Imagine that the Greeks were right and Zeus is the Lord. Is it a "crime" for me to not believe in that claim especially that I personally can't find any reason to believe it? On top of that, will it be fair for Zeus to then throw me in a lake of fire for this? It is sad how good people can support such a horrible philosophy and come to its defense. Not to mention that your ALL KNOWING bigoted monstrosity of a God already knew in advance that I won't be able to verify the truth of these claims. That means that your God knowingly created me weak and is now demanding perfection!!
Peace, and thank you for being polite.
I have tried my best to not indulge in any form of unwarranted aggression. Some things just cannot be stated too calmly. Especially when my opponent is advocating for the existence of a God who doesn't behave any better than a common terrorist and tries to intimidate people through threats to make them accept whatever they have to offer. Shame on such a god and shame on you if you support such an idea or entity!
Peace
--------------- Student of Allah -
Peace Student of Allah.
I have read your posts with interest. You are absolutely right " being honest and blunt " is the best method. Believing is a very personal thing. However " what is the truth" is also personal. Who has the truth?
Those who believe in "God" ,the creator of all that we can see? will tell you "He is the truth"!,why?
Because those who walk through earth totally oblivious to God's truth, as if He never gave them the hearing, the eyesight and the brain. They can never comprehend His proofs no matter how clear they are as it is a divine system that His proofs are to be beneficial ONLY for the souls of the believers. God already informed us that most people are either blind to His proofs or they slide back after witnessing them. Once this decision is made, it is a divine law that they are to be kept in the dark.
Say, "Look at all the signs in the heavens and the earth." All the proofs and all the warnings can never help people who decided to disbelieve.
Divine Intervention keeps the Disbelievers in the Dark.
I will divert from My revelations those who are arrogant on earth, without justification. Consequently, when they see every kind of proof they will not believe. And when they see the path of guidance they will not adopt it as their path, but when they see the path of straying they will adopt it as their path. This is the consequence of their rejecting our proofs, and being totally heedless thereof.
Some of them listen to you, but we place veils on their heartsto prevent them from understanding, and deafness in their ears. Thus, no matter what kind of proof they see, they cannot believe. Thus, when they come to argue with you, the disbelievers say, "These are tales from the past."
Why should God guide people who disbelieved after believing, and after witnessing that the messenger is truth, and after solid proofs* have been given to them? God does not guide the wicked.
He is the One who continuously shows you His proofs, and sends down to you from the sky provisions. Only those who totally submit will be able to take heed.
The reverent will take heed.
The wicked will avoid it.
And remind, for the reminder benefits the believers.
The heavens and the earth are full of proofs for the believers.
Among His proofs is that He created you from dust, then you became reproducing humans.
He committed in your service everything in the heavens and the earth; all from Him. These are proofs for people who reflect.
Among His proofs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other, and He placed in your hearts love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are sufficient proofs for people who think.
Among His proofs are the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colors. In these, there are signs for the knowledgeable.
Among His proofs is your sleeping during the night or the day, and your working in pursuit of His provisions. In this, there are sufficient proofs for people who can hear.
Among His proofs is that He shows you the lightning as a source of fear, as well as hope, then He sends down from the sky water to revive a land that has been dead. In these, there are sufficient proofs for people who understand.
Among His proofs is that the heaven and the earth are standing at His disposal. Finally, when He calls you out of the earth, one call, you will immediately come out.Among His proofs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the creatures He spreads in them. He is able to summon them, when He wills.
Brother ,you have the choice and you are entitled to disbelieve in the vreator of all that you can see.
Please do not take anything personal, I do not know your future thoughts , whether you will change them again, I will hope that you will find the truth?
In friendship and hope.
Peace. -
I have tried my best to not indulge in any form of unwarranted aggression. Some things just cannot be stated too calmly. Especially when my opponent is advocating for the existence of a God who doesn't behave any better than a common terrorist and tries to intimidate people through threats to make them accept whatever they have to offer. Shame on such a god and shame on you if you support such an idea or entity!
Peace,
And that one God will not punish you either if you have a good way of being. The "believe in me" part is arguable if not one does if they are righteous.
Either way, the option to believe that there is a Master above or not is up to each of us and it is quite personal and we are responsible only for ourselves. Only reason I have understood that one is to interfere in someone else system is if they oppress others or do something atrocious.
So feel free not to believe in a god and believe that we just happen to exist out of nothing in some funny way. I cannot force you to believe in anyway, but if I see you oppress or misbehave that it causes damage then I can try to stop you from doing that, with the best way possible in equality or less.
It feels a bit unkind to indirectly say that people are suckers for believing in a creating force within the galaxies that is high above everyone else and controlling the world as we know it, and which is randomly selecting exceptional people to receive signs of it as a mercy in a kind of hidden game. Not saying at all why the Force has created this world because that is beyond my understanding. For all I "feel" is that it wants me to be a good one and "meld" with it and that I understand how small I really am inside this realm.
The benefits of being "in symbiosis" with this creating force are all the "buffs" that come with it, but it works much like Star Wars than the old sectarian knowings.
So you say God behaves like a terrorist in the recited words? Well, one can understand that a person has to pay for the crimes they have done (because it is the ill-doings that we are punished for) and sectarianism is responsible for much of the views that the "Arabian God" accepts only a certain group of people. I have not completely bought the traditional Quranic understanding that God places anyone in Hell, but that these people are simply too weak for any other fate. Except that without God's light there is already Hell on Earth. Hell could as well be the original Earth after God's grace left it.
Well. It is men that has shaped the pathetic shape of world religions and not God.
An alleged man, like anyone else, called Muhammad composed what we traditionally refer to as "Qur'an" and he composed it to the best of his understanding out of likely inspiration. True and correct information is up to each of us to accept or not, but we should know that it may contains errors as a fallible man composed it. It could have been me or it could have been you
God bless you
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Shalom Aleikhem JavaLatte,
For anyone reading this(including JavaLatte) I am writing this the way I see things. I won't sugarcoat anything just so that I can be as honest as possible throughout the post. I don't mind if my post makes you feel a bit comfortable as its a very little price to pay for ANYONE who is "actually" looking for the truth.
Perfect..
I am not asking you to accept whatever I say dogmatically. I will try to reason and not claim things I can not provide evidence for. I have not changed in that regards, so you should still be able to learn things. On top of that, I can promise you that I am more honest in this search of truth now than I ever was.
Perfect
Religion exploits the tendency our pattern-seeking primate brain has towards believing. People fall victim to this scam.
Very true, although I want to revise towards
"Religion exploits the tendency of the greedy primate brain has towards believing of benefit that he/she will get for doing something for the sake of the religious elite".Throughout human history, no evidence has been ever brought forth proving the existence of a God, let alone a specific god like your god for example. Although it is possible that you can be that ONE PERSON who finally proves the existence of a God and gets a Nobel prize for it, I assumed that that's unlikely. Therefore, it logically followed that you are just like everyone else, believing in things like that without adequate rational justification.
Again it depends on one definition of God.
If God is an object exist and confined within this universe's time and space then such thing is not God.I will not bring up the intellectuals that have been killed and persecuted because of the "God beliefs" all throughout human history. Let me not bring up the wars and atrocities that just "beliefs in Gods" aided throughout history. Let me not bring up how many people were tortured because of the results of these God beliefs, ranging from lashing in public all the way up to chopping off of hands, stoning to death, beheading etc. Let me not bring up how these "beliefs in God" gave the lazy thinkers a divine mandate to rape,loot,kill and enslave my brothers and sisters all throughout the world. Rapes and genocides decreed straight from these "Gods" and revered and respected by followers like you who fail to see the evil in them because "one shouldn't compare our activities with what God mandates".
It's actually the most important lesson to learn.
Learning and remembering how many atrocities has been performed in the past for or due to the sake of religion.
One will end up on a conclusion on "Why religion was invented in the first place".I won't talk about all the things I just mentioned but I will not end the post here in the honor of all the souls that suffered throughout the ages because of this gateway drug "belief in God" paving the way for so much evil.
It's interesting you mentioned the word "soul".
What is a "soul"?No one has ever been able to demonstrate the existence of any such deities and therefore throughout human civilization people have only come up with absurd fallacious reasoning to justify their beliefs in Gods/Goddesses.
True, deities doesn't exist..
The amount of uncritical thinking and dependency on logical fallacies it takes to believe in such Gods ultimately results in something really bad. It makes the belief in God like a gateway drug making it easier for one's mind to accept other absurd and ridiculous things.
True, ranging from human sacrifice (including sacrificing / murdering his own son) to mass torture and murder.
In short I guess, such beliefs in God needs you to be totally uncritical about the biggest questions humanity has asked and they teach you to be satisfied with BASELESS assertions instead of seeking the actual answers with full honesty and unrestrained devotion to the journey towards the truth.
What is this "biggest questions that humanity has asked?".
People can be wrong, that doesn't automatically make them liars. For example, I believe that your position is wrong since I don't believe in a God. However, that is not to say that I think that you know in your heart that Qur'an is actually wrong and you are just pretending!! That kind of behavior requires a lot of disrespect for your fellow human being and not to mention, arrogance.
It makes me curious what is your definition of God as such you don't believe in it/his existence?
In that case you should be able to demonstrate how
- A God exists
- It is your God
If you can't do that, then you must see why I can not treat your beliefs any differently than I treat the beliefs of the vikings or the ancient Greeks.
According to a chinese who lived about 2600 years ago.
His definition of "God" is There's something in existence even before time and space was created.
As thus this "God" is not dependent towards time and space.
Infact time and space itself was created.Me and many of today's scientist agree with the above statement.
We know now that the event named "Big bang" was not an explosion of matter into space, it was actually the initial expansion of this universe time and space.However this pose a difficulty, how to prove something exist towards a being living in this universe's time and space?
If that something which has to be proven is not confined within this universe's time and space?But again, how does that matter anyway? Why is that important?
Let's take a smaller conception of let's say the "Big Bang" event itself.
How does believing or not believing in this event called the "Big Bang" has to do with being good or evil?
To me it's irrelevant.. feel free to believe or not believe the "Big Bang" event did occurred.No, I am not actually upset that one Arab God out of the thousands human beings have made up throughout history will punish me.
Usually it's the "believer of such God" that shall punish you.
For example
Abraham doesn't believe in the Marduk God, the follower of Marduk burned him at the stake.The objective and reason is clear, if Abraham was not stopped (by ending his life) he will cast doubt and shake the 'belief' of the society towards such nonsense. If that happened the religious elite shall lose their influence and power among the people. And that's dangerous for the religious elite.
Truth doesn't need any protection, falsehood does..
And this is where religion utterly rapes your sense of justice. It screws up your sense of empathy for your fellow human being.
Very true..
And that's how "Evil works".
First by defining the line between "us" and "them".
Continued with justification on why THEY deserved to be tortured and/or murdered.A great video regarding this scheme, from the point of view of human psychology.
http//www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evilI don't even see how it can ever be a "crime" AT ALL!!
It's not a crime at all, how could believing or not believing in something be a crime??
Salam / Peace
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Prove God? ?Prove love? What is God that you can prove? What is love that you can prove?
This kind of debate is pitiful, finally it revolves about words and what each person puts into them. How is anybody going to prove that what I have in my mind under any word at all exists or doe snot exist.
Any proof of anything at all can only be provided for things that are within our reach, not for things that are not. Therefore, by definition nobody can prove God, and if they could prove it it would not be God. However one can experience things that are not within one's reach.
Salaam
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This guy, doesn't matter what he thinks of him self as "what he is", his actions define him instead.
His actions are clearly humane and definitely on a path for God, even if he thinks of himself the opposite, that doesn't change it.According to my opinion, he will be judged by his action even if he calls him self an atheist.
Same as a "religious" person whose actions are totally ungodly, and calls him self a believer, doesn't matter.So I bet Allah the most merciful of All, has more mercy to this guy that we have toward him.
And his actions are one of a kind, According the the Quran chapter 55, (the reward for good, is good).Some people go to back to God with only actions, some people go back with only faith, Actions make bigger impacts to me.
InshaAllah he will be rewarded with what he did, nothing he did will be lost.
Peace,
Yami. -
At least we all know that the People of the Scripture (the disbelievers?) can be the righteous person. . .
and accordingly, deserved to be in ParadiseThey are not the same; among the People of the Scripture
is a community standing
reciting the verses of Allah during periods of the night
and prostrating .
They believe in Allah and the Last Day
and they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong
and hasten to good deeds.
And those are among the righteous.
3113-114Secondly, Allah protects monasteries, churches and synagogues. . .
Permission has been given to those who are being fought
because they were wronged
And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory
those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, ?Our Lord is Allah .?
And were it not that Allah checks the people
some by means of others, there would have been demolished
monasteries
churches
synagogues
and mosques in which the name of Allah is much mentioned.
And Allah will surely support those who support Him.
Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might.
2239-40