Ambition and the Quran
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Yeah you can repeat your faulty translation/interpretation as many times as you like and fools can heed your words.
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It depends on people and their circumstances, there are many different circumstances
This is the author of this thread wish to find out . . ie.
Specifically, I'm talking about where wealth/status/material things are sought past the point of sustenance.
I know Isa referred to the difficulty of the wealthy in reaching heaven in
Matthew 1923-2623 Then Jesus said to his disciples, ?Truly I tell you, it will be hard for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.? 25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astounded and said, ?Then who can be saved?? 26 But Jesus looked at them and said, ?For mortals it is impossible, but for God all things are possible.?
. . .
Anyways, I know that some lessons aren't repeated in the Quran and fall under the "affirming that which came before" clause...but I'd like some wisdom specifically on ambition.
Whether properties and being wealthy and ambitious etc is a barrier for reaching heavens ?
This is the "circumstances" . . the "issue" of this thread.
and it is not. . .it is in fact, the main condition of becoming a True Believer, to benefit the society (the scale Allah addressing to).
. . .
Your reasoning here is as bad as that of those who want the poor shipped off to some island and left to fend for themselves since they are a burden on society. It's almost as if we're reading different books here, which we well can be since I see no evidence of such in the quran. It is unrealistic, shortsighted and absurd.
It is your opinion, but the verse clearly says "properties" , and in context of True Believers, I believe it is the properties that beyond our needs and that can benefit the humanity.
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Peace,
So one who is poor cannot be a "true" person with faith?
And I thought iman was not bound to earthly possessions. How about someone who has just a small share to give, had much wisdom to share and who died on the battlefield against people who oppose God after contributing much and did an unselfish strategic move which saved several people, but died doing that. Does this person not have any true iman?
Or the poor man that gives up his possessions completely and goes out to help people instead. Is he without iman?
Is not iman to have iman in The Master and do everything he can in the cause of God?
Does it all come down to wealth in the end. So superficial.
Salaam,
I agree handshake
Red If a poor person earns $5 in a day and he spent only 50 cents in the cause of Allah. Another person earns $1000 in a day and he spent $50 in the cause of Allah. In this case that tiny contribution is better than this $50. Because the poor person share 1% of his income and the rich person share only 0.5%.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Red If a poor person earns $5 in a day and he spent only 50 cents in the cause of Allah. Another person earns $1000 in a day and he spent $50 in the cause of Allah. In this case that tiny contribution is better than this $50. Because the poor person share 1% of his income and the rich person share only 0.5%.
People don't need to be ambitious to accomplish all these. It normally happens automatically in life of a Muslim, without any plans. laugh
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Whether property and being ambitious etc is a barrier in Islam ?
When you respond with 'the calling card of "true believers" is wealth, and the poor can go hang', it's begging responses that will be contrary to those opinions. If you wanted to stick to what 'the author of the thread wished to find out'...then you should have said, nope 'property and ambition is no barrier' and that's that. When things naturally proceed and perhaps even evolve based on what you yourself post, it is disingenuous to say 'that's the issue and nothing else'.==============================================================================================
At any rate, to the OP...I wrote a reply some time ago but didn't get a chance to post it
Interesting question by Existential1, don't think ambition has been covered much in our discussions here. Thank you roshan_m for the verses.
My thoughts...Is it 'bad' to be ambitious and/or wealthy? Is having wealth thrust upon one in the sense of 'he didn't set out to achieve it, it just happened because good intentions/blessed because good person etc' rather than achieved by one's ambition better taken? Is it better to be poor? Is there a surfeit of piousness associated with poverty? (all the holy men with no possessions theme, not sure what came first though). I've often found that people tend towards the respective latter...because they think it's not right to have ambition in regards to wealth and sometimes in regards to other material things. Is it because one is afraid of the responsibility associated with having wealth? Do some think not having wealth absolves them from a wealth of things because they can use poverty as a defense? Some may think that having ambition leads down to the devil's highway of temptations and is better to stay away from, others may think that ambition connected to anything of this earth is something to be avoided totally as it is a test (a test is taken as something to be avoided but unusually only in regards to wealth and associated financial/material things). Thing is, one can't avoid these tests, life is a test no matter what you choose to do or not do, no matter how rich or poor you are. The tests will be different, but they will still be present.
Imo, ambition should be directed towards something which involves a beneficial aspect for all and with minimal negatives (trying not to hurt others in the process) since it helps you focus and keeps you moving towards a goal (we're talking about generalised ambition coupled with something good overall intended/worked in; wanting to be the top dog in some mafia organisation would couple it with an overall negative aspect or directionless 'I just want to be rich because x is and it looks like it would be oodles of fun would be chaotic drift with the emphasis on what would only benefit oneself, everything else can go hang, leading to the many cons associated with this line/type of thinking).
There is nothing wrong with wanting and working towards something as long as it is balanced with stuff that helps you keep your perspective and allows you to utilise it for some good along with benefits to oneself, without harm to others. You see examples of this all around, good rich people and bad rich people; good poor people and bad poor people...so on in simplistic terms. I don't think that living in a hair shirt and sleeping on pavements is a character building exercise (it could be but not by choice, surely) or that throwing yachtloads of money around on luxuries etc for the rest of one's life and/or dying smug and happy on a hoarded pile of gold is either. As with everything, things should be balanced and/or fine tuned. It's a continuous process and ambition can be a great thing coupled with good direction and so on.
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True but since this thread is about "ambition", and Allah says "properties" . . .
Therefore True Believers must have "wealth". . .
Those who do not have "wealth" cannot strive with their "properties"
It is better for them to feed themselves and not burdening other people, rather than thinking about something else. . .
Arabic word is amwaal plural of maal, I don't think it means properties. Please take a look at other translations here.
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It depends on people and their circumstances, there are many different circumstances in rl and to brush them all over with a very stringent black and white criteria is for one not realistic and two, takes the verses in a very narrow sense that would contradict other places where we told to do good with what we have in different ways. No one can argue that taking time off to teach illiterate kids is a good act, an altruistic act, it doesn't have to involve money and it would benefit society. if one has the ambition to do good, then there are a million ways of doing so regardless of financial wealth. Properties can be taken as whatever you have in terms of assets. If you don't have financial assets, doesn't necessarily mean you're out of the running. You may have other assets as valuable. God is not unaware of the realities.
Your reasoning here is as bad as that of those who want the poor shipped off to some island and left to fend for themselves since they are a burden on society. It's almost as if we're reading different books here, which we well can be since I see no evidence of such in the quran. It is unrealistic, shortsighted and absurd.Salaam,
Very well said and I agree handshake
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Peace,
My ambition is to serve God with all my heart and to make the world a better place, by any means that the lord
has given me at my disposal, by means of money, physical strength, wisdom, being a good example, or through
acts of kindness. To position myself were I can do the most Good. Striving is an ambitious act in itself if it is to
gain knowledge to have a positive impact on those around you, or to become a professional to cure societal or
health issues Even the ambition to become a soldier to protect one's homeland is a wonderful sacrifice. Being
rich and righteous is a very good thing because the rich can do more with more money that another who wishes
to do the same with less money all things being equal. Also ambition can be understood with the connotation
of striving which makes it easier to understand in an Islamic context.God bless
peace
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Too true brother hawk. The best ambition is to strive in the cause of God in whatever way one can. That distinguish one with faith against those who only talk.
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When you respond with 'the calling card of "true believers" is wealth, and the poor can go hang', it's begging responses that will be contrary to those opinions.
Really ? Please read again . . .
Therefore, I believe True Believers are not useless, lazy or weak people (ie. worst than livestock)
True Believers are those who are excel in major aspect of life and according to the injunction of Allah, only they are the True Believers. . .
Does is it sound like what you said , "'the calling card of "true believers" is wealth, and the poor can go hang'" ?
Nope. . .the True Believer are those who are "grateful" to Allah, ie. those who understand their life and use it with balance and justice.
This requires us to maximize our "sense perception", because one cannot truly be "grateful" to Allah if he have not really use his "sense perception to understand life and reality"; ie. the Deen. Those people are the dumb, blind and deaf. . they are like livestock .
And it is He who produced for you
hearing
and vision
and hearts
little are you grateful.
23.78Then He proportioned him and breathed into him from His soul
and made for you hearing
and vision
and hearts;
little are you grateful.
32.9As we can see, there is connection between "sense perception", being grateful to Allah and the status of becoming a "True Believer".
Therefore, the True Believer are those who maximize the hearing, vision and heart to understand the signs around them, to understand reality and life . . . and use it to bring balance and justice to benefit humanity etc. It is these kind of things that we must look to determine whether one is a "True Believer". It is one of the "determining factor" of becoming a True Believer. . . Is he aware of the reality or live in illusion ?
Contradictorily, the Disbelievers are those who live in illusion (religion, wealth, property, women etc. . anything) . . .
And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind
They have hearts with which they do not understand <- they have wasted their sense perception
they have eyes with which they do not see
and they have ears with which they do not hearThose are like livestock; rather, they are more astray <- useless people
It is they who are the heedless
7.179Who are these people ? They are mostly those who are poor, lazy, weak etc. . . . Those who have wasted their sense perception, reality and life. Those who have no ambition in life and living in illusion or "Mutasyaabihat Context of Life", interpreting things that Allah says "No one knows except Allah", and create more divisions after the other.
And of the people are some who say,
"We believe in Allah and the Last Day,"
but they are not believers.
They deceive Allah and those who believe
but they deceive not except themselves and perceive no
In their hearts is disease
so Allah has increased their disease
and for them is a painful punishment because they used to lie.
And when it is said to them,
"Do not cause corruption on the earth,"
they say, "We are but reformers." <- reform in the name of Allah, religion etc
Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters <- creating division, and kill each other
but they perceive not. <- because they thought that what Allah want, it is religion!
2.8-12 -
And some people are so obsessed with earthly materials that they cannot think beyond this.
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And now are we not bringing in the wrong hammer are we not? What does that verse have to do with the context here?
Self sufficient in the verse means the person thinks that he acquires things due to his own cleverness.
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Really ? Please read again . . .
Yes, really. Please read again...Therefore True Believers must have "wealth". . .
Those who do not have "wealth" cannot strive with their "properties"
It is better for them to feed themselves and not burdening other people, rather thanking about something else. . .
These are your replies and are exactly what I paraphrased in response 'the calling card of "true believers" is wealth, and the poor can go hang'. In fact, you're still saying it. If you don't agree with it, it would be great if you can scrounge up quotes in your other posts saying 'i think the poor should be taken care of because i don't think most poor people are lazy buggers who should get off their asses and feed themselves' and lay this entire side issue to rest...you know, stuff unlike ' the Disbelievers are those who . . . (are deaf dumb and blind) . . . They are mostly those who are poor, lazy, weak etc. . . .who have no ambition in life and living in their illusion.' I don't need to explain why and how this sentence is horribly wrong and riddled with generalisations plus weird connections galore, and having nothing much to do with reality and/or the quran. Your wide black and white brushstrokes cutting across whole swathes of people in varying circumstances is abysmal.
If you can't and want to stick to your guns which you probably will given your spotted history, it's no skin off anyone's back but it would be advisable then to go back to the '"circumstances" . . the "issue" of this thread'. Heed this well, because your usual games, inclusive of constant repetitive and off topic postings until you get the last word, are tiresome and earn you demerits.
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Yes, really. Please read again...
These are your replies and are exactly what I paraphrased in response 'the calling card of "true believers" is wealth, and the poor can go hang'. In fact, you're still saying it.
Actually, what did you understand when I said "those who are excel in major aspect of life and according to the injunction of Allah" ?
Is it about wealth alone ?
The wealth part is the answer to the issue of this thread, (refer here). .
The reality of today's world where almost everything needs money, vs. the Stone Age. -
You mean I have acted so oppositional that I have lost my right for guidance?
Can you please explain what I have done?
Is it not you who begun being arrogant, which is one of the worst traits God knows?
And also taking God's decreed words out of context just to fit into flawed arguments.
Who has lost sense perception?
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You mean I have acted so oppositional that I have lost my right for guidance?
Can you please explain what I have done?
Is it not you who begun being arrogant, which is one of the worst traits God knows?
And also taking God's decreed words out of context just to fit into flawed arguments.
Who has lost sense perception?
Since when this is about "you" and "me" ? confused
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And what does your verse have to do with the context?