Ramadhan Fasting
-
Salam,
I am still new, still raw from getting myself free from the shackle of tradition. so please don't shoot me. I am trying to digest. As my arabic knowledge is very basic I rely heavily on translations. so the following is what I get (forgive me if I am wrong, I would rather keep this to myself but obviously I need help)
Timing
Summer Solstice
-this by far makes most sense to me. It is very direct (Quran is easy and clear). even though the other 2 interpretation, Winter Solstice and Autumn Equinox are also very convincing, and all of these sends my head spinning, I went back to Quran as being clear and easy and the most direct interpretation would be the full moon of scorching heat. (to me)Duration
3 days (or 1, or 2, or 4)
depending on the full moon duration. "...he should fast it..." (2185) and I came to incline to this conclusion because of the nature of the fast.what kind of fasting
at first, I was inclined to translate "kullu wa ishrabu" (2187) as eat and drink. but then when it is seen in the context of the ayat it seems to be out of place... and then... fasting from speaking to anyone is HARD. harder than fasting from food and drink. imagine living with a baby, a preschooler and young kids. it is HARD not to say anything. unless you are at the office, and also what if the nature of your work is lecturing... this led me to think that about 3 days is more logical.I am trying. not to be biased. biased as in from what I want or what is easier or what I am already accustomed to. so this is hard for me. referring to how we should study Quran, in the last part where we should look for example in the Quran... the only example of sawm given is of speech.
then there is this Hajj (the great debate?) since I have not studied up to that part yet... theres this question of how do you fast from speech when you are doing hajj which is supposed to be the great debate? how to debate when you fast? perhaps debates are done during the night? I frankly do not know since I have not studied that part yet... (scenes from Eat, Pray, Love comes to mind. LOL)
and... the part of witnessing the moon... does it mean those who did not witness it doesn't have to fast? and my head starts spinning again. I am looking on how when and how many days to fast. and I have no issues with fasting from food and drink. just that if fasting means fasting from speech, it will be difficult, very difficult for me since my family and my husband are devout sunni. I cannot explain anything to them (at least not at this stage) without being labelled as going astray.
Actually, I have issues with sunni ways of having to repay missing fasts. I had problems to fast from food and drink since about 7 years ago. pregnant-breastfeeding-pregnant again-breastfeeding again-pregnant (again? confused) and so it goes. so according to sunni definition of fasting, I have about 3 months of fast to make up for. and given that I paid ransom (money to the needy in the same values as how many days I did not fast) after the first year I missed fasting because of my first pregnancy, I did not pay for the subsequent years I missed. I keep on asking, do I have to pay ransom and fast, ransom only? fast only? and insofar as the answers I received, is that I have to pay ransom, before the next ramadhan, just so I can make up my fasting the next year. (as in the ransom is so you are allowed to make up the fast in the following year) for each subsequent year, the number of days you missed, and the ransom you pay have to be doubled. for example, you missed 3 days of fasting in 2012 and are unable to make up fasting for that 3 days before ramdhan 2013. and you did not pay any ransom before ramadhan 2013. then came ramadhan 2014 and still you did not make up for the fast you missed, therefore your ransom you need to pay is for 3 days of missed fasting in 2012 is equivalent to ransom for missing 6 days of fasting. something like that. in that definition, I have a LOT to pay for.
and now... I don't know. like I said in my introductory post, I feel like the whole foundation of my faith crumbled right below my feet. at times I keep coming back to... "am I the one who is actually lost here?" but then again, sunni is based on hadith and I cannot accept that any more.
Peace.
-
so please don't shoot me.
;D
Forgive me sis, myself also still not completely understand the method of fasting in the Qur'an.
(as in the ransom is so you are allowed to make up the fast in the following year) for each subsequent year, the number of days you missed, and the ransom you pay have to be doubled.
As far as I know, the Qur'an doesn't contain the order to double the ransom or the number of days you missed.
Peace.
-
Actually, I have issues with sunni ways of having to repay missing fasts... pregnant-breastfeeding-pregnant again-breastfeeding again-pregnant...I have about 3 months of fast to make up for... I keep on asking, do I have to pay ransom and fast, ransom only? fast only? and insofar as the answers I received, is that I have to pay ransom, before the next ramadhan, just so I can make up my fasting the next year.
Peace.
You don't have to do anything. God says there is to be no compulsion. However fasting is good for purifying oneself and pure people are one with God so if you want this then it makes sense to take the opportunity I think (that's fasting to mean abstain from water/food/sexual contact during the daylight hours of a lunar month). If you can't, then give the charity instead (if you can afford it), there doesn't appear to be any deadline for when you have to do this by if you miss it, in my opinion, (although maybe it is best to try and keep it within the same year). I still have about 20 days from 2013 that I missed, I am going to try and fast them this year rather than pay the money.
Ask yourself What do I really want to do? Then you have your answer.
sun
-
As far as I know, the Qur'an doesn't contain the order to double the ransom or the number of days you missed.
Yes, now I see it differently. Praise to God.
peace,
With regard to al hajj, you may find this useful
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.htmlThank you brother Wakas. I have read it and I think I'm beginning to get it. I need to really study this but I got the general point...
Peace.
You don't have to do anything. God says there is to be no compulsion. However fasting is good for purifying oneself and pure people are one with God so if you want this then it makes sense to take the opportunity I think (that's fasting to mean abstain from water/food/sexual contact during the daylight hours of a lunar month). If you can't, then give the charity instead (if you can afford it), there doesn't appear to be any deadline for when you have to do this by if you miss it, in my opinion, (although maybe it is best to try and keep it within the same year). I still have about 20 days from 2013 that I missed, I am going to try and fast them this year rather than pay the money.
Ask yourself What do I really want to do? Then you have your answer.
sun
I am afraid of what I want will get in the way of the truth. So for now I'll take it one at a time, and pray and ask God what he meant. But as far as the way I understand it, the evidence seems to be leaning heavier towards abstaining from speech, as that is the only example that I know is given in the Quran.
If it is my own preferences, abstaining from food and drinks are easier. -\
-
I am afraid of what I want will get in the way of the truth.
Lol. On the contrary, what you want = The Truth. D
Desire has had a bad rep. for being evil, dangerous, self-indulgent tempt. However we expand and grow when we go after what we truly want, we shrink in response to oppression, particularly self-oppression.
And all the bad things you do, when you think about it...if you're honest - you never really wanted to do them anyway. Therefore, we should not worry that following what we want, what our heart wants, will lead us to transgress.
Doing what you think you 'should' do brings you back to the idea of compulsion in religion. Where is the magic in that? It is a dull and dark way to live and it is this that can lead to transgression I think. Trust your innermost self! - not your outer self - your ego and your wish to be accepted by others, that is different. The real desire of your true self can always be trusted as it is God talking to you, even if it goes against what everyone else says.
I think so, anyway.
Peace )
-
Lol. On the contrary, what you want = The Truth.
Desire has had a bad rep. for being evil, dangerous, self-indulgent tempt. However we expand and grow when we go after what we truly want, we shrink in response to oppression, particularly self-oppression.
hmm I never really thought about it that way. In a way, yes... Perhaps I got so used to oppressing myself... Thanks for that insight... Just like the dog experiment, (the one tied to the leash and no longer walk away beyond the perimeter of the leash even without being leashed) I am sort of like that. At the moment. I really need to reconnect to the fitrah we were born with...
-
Lol. On the contrary, what you want = The Truth. D
Desire has had a bad rep. for being evil, dangerous, self-indulgent tempt. However we expand and grow when we go after what we truly want, we shrink in response to oppression, particularly self-oppression.
And all the bad things you do, when you think about it...if you're honest - you never really wanted to do them anyway. Therefore, we should not worry that following what we want, what our heart wants, will lead us to transgress.
Doing what you think you 'should' do brings you back to the idea of compulsion in religion. Where is the magic in that? It is a dull and dark way to live and it is this that can lead to transgression I think. Trust your innermost self! - not your outer self - your ego and your wish to be accepted by others, that is different. The real desire of your true self can always be trusted as it is God talking to you, even if it goes against what everyone else says.
I think so, anyway.
Peace )
Well said!
It is important to get out of one's own mind, not to be a prisoner to it.
It is a lifelong journey and project to get to know oneself.
We have to peel away layer by layer of clouds from our mind, but also from the eyes of our pure aware self (which is how we observe our own mind from outside... because we are not our mind... we are something else, beyond that... and this is an extremely important insight).Our real selves, sane, sober and seeing, would always want the truth, the good and the real. Our minds may be confused, tempted, brainwashed and entrained to bad habits, but we should not fear.... because fear will lock us in place, stiff. We should boldly and peacefully accept the weaknesses of the mind, and see them for what they are, without fear. And then we can start to work on cleaning ourselves up. But be vigilant and aware... the mind will be your greatest ally in getting rid of the mind, or so it will tell you. But there is only one way to freedom, and that is through peace.... to just let go and do nothing. Don't tango with the mind, whatever it promises you. Just leave it be, let it throw it's worst fears at you... just smile in patience at it, and let it wriggle and shout. Pray to God with peace, not fear. Surrender to God, and let go. Then clouds will disperse and vision will come back.
Nice words, but horrendously difficult to live by, in my experience. In any case, asking forgiveness from God is the key. Else there is no chance really. Ask forgiveness without guilt. Ask forgiveness with a sense of happy and peaceful surrender. Don't oppress yourself.
O0
-
Good posts these last ones.
bout the outer or worldly desires that we feel obliged to follow because of the environment, I usually call that "noise", as opposed to sincerity which is the basic thing, the basis of what we do because of what we are. What we are is not a part in comedy or a drama looking outwards for applause. It is far more intimate and secret. Like those insects which have protective exgternal skeletons we may need that protection in this life but we must follow, or rather be consequent and acknowledge what is our roots which are in divine, thinking about which we would be moved to love ourselves and to love everything there is.
Doing what we desire does not mean that what we desire should be easy or troubleless to attain, as we know all, it is a quest.
Salaam
-
http//m.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201406/why-we-feel-lustier-in-june
hmm Could this possibly be related to 2187? Hehehe ;D
-
As far as I know, the Qur'an doesn't contain the order to double the ransom or the number of days you missed.
I don't know of that either, but it doesn't sound consistent with the Qur'an. That sounds like spiritual interest being owed.
I've similarly been reading all these threads on ramadan and proper fasting, as well as reading the Qur'an. Having a bit of a hard time with it. Like burnian above
Duration
3 days (or 1, or 2, or 4)
depending on the full moon duration. "...he should fast it..." (2185) and I came to incline to this conclusion because of the nature of the fast.what kind of fasting
at first, I was inclined to translate "kullu wa ishrabu" (2187) as eat and drink. but then when it is seen in the context of the ayat it seems to be out of place... and then... fasting from speaking to anyone is HARD. harder than fasting from food and drink. imagine living with a baby, a preschooler and young kids. it is HARD not to say anything. unless you are at the office, and also what if the nature of your work is lecturing... this led me to think that about 3 days is more logical.Those two things I've still yet to feel like I understand them completely. I'll keep working on it/reading too.
May Allah help us all get closer to Him.
Aaaand break! group
peace
-
http//m.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201406/why-we-feel-lustier-in-june
hmm Could this possibly be related to 2187? Hehehe ;D
Well only if you believe Ramadan/prescribed fasting time is always around the time of the summer solstice. I am not sure that it is personally.
The article talks about June and says
Studies of birth records consistently show that more children are conceived during summer and winter than during spring and fall.
Condom sales rise and fall seasonally, with the largest proportion of sales in summer and winter.These two seem contradictory
Peace.
-
These two seem contradictory
I don't think it's contradictory. The people who want to practice safe sex buy more condoms when they're more active. The unsafe people have sex more, but still don't buy condoms. And there are a lot more non-condom users than there are users.
peace
-
Thanks for the compliment Jane rotfl
For now, my current understanding of fasting is fasting from speech. I am still not sure if it is equivalent to a vow of silence, because in the story of Maryam a.s (1926) "say to him..." So to me, the essence of the fast is not merely from speech... It is more like a spiritual retreat, where you converse only to God, or meditate or intensive study of the quran... Like you are fasting from the 'world'. So that explains why travelling or being ill can be exempted (you need to speak and do a lot of conversations during travelling and so is being sick, you can't do 'spiritual retreat' when you are sick) well I sounded like spewing a lot of conjectures...
At the same time I have know idea how it could be carried out...
If you are like me, for the past 7 years been nursing and pregnant one after another, fasting (food and drink) 30 days is hard. I think by that definition I have about 3-4 months of fasting to make up to. And then theres a question (just theoretically) about what if a poor woman in my shoes, who has a lot of fast to make up to and she cannot afford to pay charity?
If fasting from food and drink is for 10 days, then I will have less fasting to make up to. Just that I have no idea when was the 'real' ramadhan in the past 7 years. And then I still have not figured out what does it mean to witness it? Does it mean those who did not witness the moon are not required to fast...? Well, I sounded like I want to escape the command but really, fasting issues has been bugging me for the last 7 years...
There was once, in my student years, it was a hard time and I had no money. I fasted and only survived with 3-6 dates per day for the whole month of ramadhan... Coz i could only afford to buy a box (or was it 2?) of dates. it was still easier (in my memories of it) than fasting while pregnant or nursing...
I wish I can be so sure that it meant fasting from food and drink. Everytime I tried to convince myself it is, I failed. because I know how to fast from food and drink... It is simple, straighforward. From speech (spiritual retreat) I have not done it. Yet. I think a brother in another thread mentioned something like it is a specific type of fast, and it was for those who had their lives arranged for them...? Like monks or something?
Regarding the story of Maryam, my theory (unproven) was fasting from speech was the norm during her time, so she did not have to explain much, it is widely understood. I thought of this theory because of the so many distortions done to the translation of the Quran in the past 1200 years? (Salat, zakat, hajj, etc)
May God forgive me, I am still learning, and I only wish to obey Him. I may be wrong. my understanding may change later. Hopefully soon there will be a clear answer for this. May Allah increase us in guidance group
-
Peace
A new understanding of SAUM has surfaced recently on the basis of Maryam,s fasting. Those who are of the opinion should have first observed the implications of non speech especially in Muslim countries. If you are working in a shop how the customer will tell you what he wants and how will you respond to him, how a patient will explain to a doctor about his complaints and how a doctor will respond to him, how will someone buy a ticket at the railway station, airport etc. Just imagine the whole picture of a country wherein all its citizens are fasting (speechless). A teacher / professor teaching his students for one month by remaining silent. Is this fasting? Dear friend you are not the only person who is fasting (remaining speechless) but the whole ummah.
SAUM means Fasting but also means ABSTENTION
http//snag.gy/5mXbu.jpg
Abstention from food, speech etc or evil acts it depends upon Allah.
......and eat and drink, UNTIL the white thread becometh manifest unto you from the black thread of the dawn; Then continue / complete the abstention till night . ..... 2;187
There is a provision to eat and drink but only (HATTA/ UNTIL) the white thread becomes manifest to you from the black thread of the dawn. Thereafter continue the ABSTENTION up to the night.
This is a clear command not to eat from the dawn till night.
Maryam"s Fasting
And shake the trunk of the palm-tree toward thee, thou wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee 1925
So eat and drink and be consoled. And if thou meetest any mortal, say Lo! I have vowed a fast unto the Beneficent, and may not speak this day to any mortal 1926
There is no time limit for Maryam to stop eating and drinking but a command to shake the trunk of the palm tree so that the ripe dates should fall upon her and she may eat with ease.
The difference between the two commands is that for us it is a command to eat UNTIL the dawn whereas for Maryam it is a command to eat.
Maryam was not commanded to be speechless but she was told by Allah that if she sees any man then she should say to that man that she has vowed an abstention to Allah and therefore she will not speak. If she does not see any man then naturally she will not speak. She was not commanded to remain silent but in if case she sees any man then she should say....... We are commanded to eat and drink but only upto......and continue the abstention (food and drink) until night
Why abstention is prescribed for the believers?
O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed for you, even as it was prescribed for those before you, that ye may become mindful of God 2183
The main purpose of abstention is that we should become mindful of God. It is only during Fasting that we become more mindful of God then on other days. We see food and water but we avoid it because on the back of our mind is God. We avoid doing bad deeds, we stop drinking alcohol, stop smoking, and almost keep ourselves from evil deeds. Why we do this because while fasting the hunger and thirst reminds us that we are under the command of God and should keep ourselves away from all bad deeds plus food and drink. For whatever days we fast these fasting days gives us a platform to amend our lifestyle and become mindful of God.
By remaining speechless no one can become mindful of God.
Thanks
-
If you are like me, for the past 7 years been nursing and pregnant one after another, fasting (food and drink) 30 days is hard. I think by that definition I have about 3-4 months of fasting to make up to. And then theres a question (just theoretically) about what if a poor woman in my shoes, who has a lot of fast to make up to and she cannot afford to pay charity?
You know, sometimes I wonder whether the fasting and communal prayer (salat) are for men only; it is dilemmas like this that increase my thinking that way...this may need to be another thread however.
I wish I can be so sure that it meant fasting from food and drink. Everytime I tried to convince myself it is, I failed. ( because I know how to fast from food and drink... It is simple, straighforward. From speech (spiritual retreat) I have not done it.
A spiritual retreat would be a different thing than a vow of silence I think which is also a different thing from a time of fasting/abstaining from physical delights in order to encourage cleansing of the body. It is 3 different things I think. Do you feel you could do with some time away from the roles of wife/mother to find yourself again? You could do this separately and still do the fasting when it is required (my current opinion is around autumn in the Quran although I am not sure if that is even relevant to people not living in the middle east ???)
Regarding the story of Maryam, my theory (unproven) was fasting from speech was the norm during her time, so she did not have to explain much, it is widely understood...
My recollection is that both Maryam and Zachariah took short-term vows of silence for a day (or 3 days for Zachariah) as instructed by the angel that visited them. But both times it was to do with either news of conception or birth. I think taking a voluntary vow of silence would still have been common yes, but only for a few days. I can't see how anyone could maintain not speaking to anyone else for a whole lunar month.
Taking a vow of silence for a few days is quite common in christianity so that proves it has survived as a practice; but it is still separate from the annual Lent fast. You could take a vow of silence anytime you wanted I guess. I take one every month, whilst menstruating - refuse to speak to anyone as I am not interested at all, don't answer the phone or open my mail, will even ignore people knocking at the door >D hahaha.
I am guessing you have a need for some time away to yourself which you have not been able to get for awhile and that is causing your fixation on Ramadan as a 'fasting from speech' which I think can't be right. The poster above has made some good points too.
Time will tell.
Peace.
-
A new understanding of SAUM has surfaced recently on the basis of Maryam,s fasting. Those who are of the opinion should have first observed the implications of non speech especially in Muslim countries. If you are working in a shop how the customer will tell you what he wants and how will you respond to him, how a patient will explain to a doctor about his complaints and how a doctor will respond to him, how will someone buy a ticket at the railway station, airport etc. Just imagine the whole picture of a country wherein all its citizens are fasting (speechless). A teacher / professor teaching his students for one month by remaining silent. Is this fasting? Dear friend you are not the only person who is fasting (remaining speechless) but the whole ummah.
Salm.
