Unity Within Diversity

muslims

Get back to the topic Unity in Diversity.

To create unity within diversity, one must not be fascist by forcing others to believe the same.

That's better. . laugh

I believe Muslim must interfere for others to respect all religions; ie. regardless of religions, and only when there is oppression relating to "sectarianism", ie. relating to the issue of "nature of their rituals, nature of their God or nature of their texts and belief". No dispute in these areas.

Muslim must maintain unity within diversity, unconditional freedom of religion, maintain balance and justice. . .peace and harmony in the society.

No one is allowed to disrespect other religions, criticize (fitnah) or mocking others, Allah gave unconditional freedom of religion

Allah already decreed this and it was not nullified, ie. the commands is conditional in nature.

And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you,
and fitnah is worse than killing.
And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there.
But if they fight you, then kill them.
Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. <- definition of the disbelivers, "fitnah", oppression, and vs. unity
And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
Fight them until there is no fitnah and worship is for Allah .
But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression
except against the oppressors.
2191-193

The issue of freedom of religion is the issue of all Prophets, and many have been killed etc. It is almost about the whole Quran.

This is the main message of the Quran, unconditional freedom of religion relating to the "nature of their rituals, nature of their God or nature of their texts and belief". No dispute at all, and as long it does not cause injustice. It is the foundation for "unity within diversity".

muslims

http//i59.tinypic.com/2vb1zj9.gif

And if two factions among the believers (including believers in other religions) should fight
then make settlement between the two

But if one of them oppresses the other
then fight against the one that oppresses
until it returns to the ordinance of Allah (unity within diversity / unconditional freedom of religion)

And if it returns
then make settlement between them in justice and act justly.
Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

The believers (in all religions) are but brothers
so make settlement between your brothers.
And fear Allah that you may receive mercy.

O you who have believed (in unconditional freedom of religion and unity within diversity)
let not a people ridicule people
perhaps they may be better than them
nor let women ridicule women
perhaps they may be better than them
And do not insult one another
and do not call each other by nicknames
Wretched is the name of disobedience after faith

And whoever does not repent
then it is those who are the wrongdoers (ie. those insist on the above are the Kafir, the Disbelievers)
(take note, Allah says ?Believers?, the opposite of ?Believers? is the ?Disbelievers?)

O you who have believed (in unconditional freedom of religion and unity within diversity)
avoid much assumption
Indeed, some assumption is sin
And do not spy or backbite each other
Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead?
You would detest it. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful.

O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female (take note Allah is not referring to Muslim, but mankind!)
and made you peoples and tribes (therefore, the above believer are referring to all religions)
that you may know one another (unity within diversity)
Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you.
Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.
499-13

(Please also take note, Believers are from all religions and that?s why Muslim have big armies and can conquest many areas in short period of time. They are not preaching the Quran, they take their swords, ride their horses and establishing unconditional freedom of religion and unity within diversity. Islam or even the Sunni, the Sunnah Wal "Jamaah" starts much like a Political Party but then changed into religion. Many rituals in Islam are fake or misinterpreted and not even from the Quran. Today arabic language is not the same as the Quran arabic language, ie. the Quraish dialect and which no one speak this dialect today. Additionally, we must also remember that Islam is completed during Muhammad. Therefore, any facts before Muhammad must corroborate with the facts during Muhammad, ie. Islam in its complete system or as a whole.)

hawk99

your God (as subject) (is) Allah (as predicate) ?

It is impossible for the subject = predicate, can this happen ?

and there are specific terms for capital "God" (hu), ie.

and

Are both equal to "God"?

Two "subject", and no "predicate" ? (since it is not about attributes or qualities of Allah, ie. tanween)

I don't know, zero knowledge in arabic . . maybe the expert here can explain. end.

Just wondering if you are aware that you are mixing two languages? Why are you using laugh instead of rotfl

English Your only god is GOD

Arabic

God bless

peace

muslims

English Your only god is GOD

Okay, I already read the translation, nothing new and the translation still sounds funny.

So, what is your point and how it answer the issue I'm pointing out in this thread ?

Or, do you understand the issue? (refer here, 1, 2, 3, 4)

hawk99

Okay, I already read the translation, nothing new and the translation still sounds funny.

So, what is your point and how it answer the issue I'm pointing out in this thread ?

Or, do you understand the issue? (refer here, 1, 2, 3, 4)

Peace muslims,

I understand the thread and what I take from it is that you are very confused and your confusion is self inflicted
due to stubbornness

http//i2.wp.com/personalityspirituality.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/stubbornness-hand-200.jpg?resize=
200%2C300S

But by God's leave there is room for growth. Insha'Allah we'll be witness to that occurance.

rotfl ;D

God bless

peace

muslims

Good example, this how a True Muslim response, after reading the Quran and claimed Allah taught them.

hawk99

Good example, this how a True Muslim response, after reading the Quran and claimed Allah taught them.

Peace muslims,

I only answered your question, trying to be helpful and constructive, no offense intended. Thanks for referring to
me as a "true Muslim"

God bless

peace

muslims

Okay, no problem. . . and you are a True Muslim, and anyone with their "creed" (iman) and "action" (amal) to obey Allah is a True Muslim.

Even though many failed to follow the exact rules etc and still searching for truth , but this is normal , no one is perfect.

They are True Muslim.

muslims

Allah is not God

http//download.ahmedhulusi.org/download/pdf/en/allah_en.pdf
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX7BfCjXkk4
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eVHyoSb2JE
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzL2FmrofFw
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0M5bOToLtw

Shirk (forgiven) and the "duality" of God.

diamantinehoneybunch

If you define a word in a certain language using a scripture, it would become problematic. Scriptures like the Quran are not lexicons or dictionaries.

The Arabs have been using Allah for centuries, even before the Quran existed. Christian Arabs also use Allah and say Allah has a son named .
Allah = an Arabic word.

It is a false lingual fact to say the Arabic word Allah is not God. Don't define a word using your favourite scripture. Quran is not a lexicon. Even in Lane's lexicon, Allah is translated into God (capital g).

Some different words in a particular language may be the same when they are translated in another language.

And lastly, when someone disagrees or speaks up views that are opposing to yours, please do not ridicule or mock them. You have done a lot here, not only to me, but to others too.

muslims

The Arabs have been using Allah for centuries, even before the Quran existed. Christian Arabs also use Allah and say Allah has a son named .
Allah = an Arabic word.

Are you referring to the above link and documents ?

Because if you did, I don't know what is the issue you are trying to raise.

or maybe you don't read and only make blank comments.

Blank comments, blank accusations, blank claims, blank denials, blank statements etc. . .

. . .

And lastly, when someone disagrees or speaks up views that are opposing to yours, please do not ridicule or mock them. You have done a lot here, not only to me, but to others too.

Don't make blind accusations and speak lies , especially if you are not familiar with the rules of logic, fallacy and rules of engagement in the Quran.

or I may asked you to prove your contentions.

and don't even be so quick to condemn and judge people are such and such etc, and act as if you are a saint and gifted, truly guided by Allah etc. .
you are not, and you are speaking nonsense, sorry.

try reasoning. .

diamantinehoneybunch

Blank comments, blank accusations, blank claims, blank denials, blank statements etc. . .

I was again speaking up my views. Is it a crime? Why do you have to be so agressive when someone posts things that oppose to your views? You use all these words because I say something that you disagree.

I made those comments because you often base your arguments on Allah issue by making Quran as lexical book. Instead of keep telling someone how much they "don't know logical fallacy", you should learn not to repeat the same arguments too.

diamantinehoneybunch

and don't even be so quick to condemn and judge people are such and such etc, and act as if you are a saint and gifted, truly guided by Allah etc. .

Sounds too defensive. Maybe you should read all your posts. All your posts and see that you are the one who have made a lot of quick judgement against others and have condemned a lot.
You are the one who acts like you know "arguments" very much, but all you do is attacking those who disagree with you by calling them nonsense and say that people who disagree with you don't know reasoning, arguments blablabla etc while you arrogantly repeat same arguments, only different wordings, to prove you right.

you are not, and you are speaking nonsense, sorry.

try reasoning. .

You say all these because I disagree with you.

muslims

I was again speaking up my views. Is it a crime? Why do you have to be so agressive when someone posts things that oppose to your views? You use all these words because I say something that you disagree.

I made those comments because you often base your arguments on Allah issue by making Quran as lexical book. Instead of keep telling someone how much they "don't know logical fallacy", you should learn not to repeat the same arguments too.

I'm not being aggressive, but. . .

I don't know what is the issue you are trying to raise.

It's like I'm speaking about Asia , and you are speaking about there is one planet in the universe called Pluto. What ? confused

muslims

Sounds too defensive. Maybe you should read all your posts. All your posts and see that you are the one who have made a lot of quick judgement against others and have condemned a lot.
You are the one who acts like you know "arguments" very much, but all you do is attacking those who disagree with you by calling them nonsense and say that people who disagree with you don't know reasoning, arguments blablabla etc while you arrogantly repeat same arguments, only different wordings, to prove you right.
You say all these because I disagree with you.

Really? Please quote my statement. .and distinguish whether I'm attacking the. .

Contention, or
Person making the contention.

Prove it.

Obviously yours are not attacking on my "contention", but attacking on the "person making the contention". laugh

p.s. by the way, the "nonsense" is about the "contention", quote all my statement and see what the word is referring to. .

hawk99

If you define a word in a certain language using a scripture, it would become problematic. Scriptures like the Quran are not lexicons or dictionaries.

The Arabs have been using Allah for centuries, even before the Quran existed. Christian Arabs also use Allah and say Allah has a son named .
Allah = an Arabic word.

It is a false lingual fact to say the Arabic word Allah is not God. Don't define a word using your favourite scripture. Quran is not a lexicon. Even in Lane's lexicon, Allah is translated into God (capital g).

Some different words in a particular language may be the same when they are translated in another language.

And lastly, when someone disagrees or speaks up views that are opposing to yours, please do not ridicule or mock them. You have done a lot here, not only to me, but to others too.

Agreed,

Peace muslims,

Sometimes an idea or subject is too difficult to grasp laugh

We all have limitations rotfl

Are you referring to the above link and documents ?

Because if you did, I don't know what is the issue you are trying to raise.

or maybe you don't read and only make blank comments.

Blank comments, blank accusations, blank claims, blank denials, blank statements etc. . .

. . .
Don't make blind accusations and speak lies , especially if you are not familiar with the rules of logic, fallacy and rules of engagement in the Quran.

or I may asked you to prove your contentions.

and don't even be so quick to condemn and judge people are such and such etc, and act as if you are a saint and gifted, truly guided by Allah etc. .
you are not, and you are speaking nonsense, sorry.

try reasoning. .

Wow, is there a psychiatrist in the house! brickwall

God bless

peace

muslims

So is the discussion about Asia or Pluto ? confused

It's like I'm speaking about Asia , and you are speaking about there is one planet in the universe called Pluto. What ? confused

Zulf

In the midst of the usual mud slinging and wrestling of egos... I just want to pose one question

If Allah is not God, or a god, then what is Allah and what is a god, and what is God?
If someone could elaborate on this, in simple words, I'd be happy. I actually find it quite interesting. I see it that we are not supposed to associate ANYTHING with Allah, except perhaps certain qualities like wahid, or rahman etc. In this sense, we can simply not define Allah properly. But on the other hand, what are the definitions of god and God that make them incompatible with Allah? Doesn't it simply depend on the definition? Suppose you DEFINE God=Allah, then it is just a matter of usage of language.

In any case, I'm going to read that pdf, Muhammad's Allah by Hulusi, that member muslims linked to, and see what it says and to see if the author will be able to explain in a clear language why Allah is not a God.

Peace all. Peace.

muslims

In any case, I'm going to read that pdf, Muhammad's Allah by Hulusi, that member muslims linked to, and see what it says and to see if the author will be able to explain in a clear language why Allah is not a God.

Yes, I suggest you read the book and the explanation is very clear about the concept of tawheed, the true nature of "no shirk" in the doctrine of Islam. It is just a simple book.

In summary, none is equivalent to Allah. . and we must not associate anything at ALL with Allah, absolutely no "duality".

. . .

Suppose you DEFINE God=Allah, then it is just a matter of usage of language.

The actual issue in this thread about what is in the book, ie. what is the true nature of "no shirk" in the doctrine of Islam.
It is not the issue of translation of "Ilah" or "Allah".

There is no God in the doctrine of Islam

No (&#1575 God (&#1614 Only (&#1575 Allah (&#1615

However, it has been interrupted by the "issue of translation", it ended here. . .

Get back to the topic Unity in Diversity.

That's better. . laugh

I then post the book etc relating to the main issue of this thread, but then people raise the issue of translation, and say such and such, claim such and such etc. I guess they don't read and just answer.

So, now I'm quite confused which issue they are referring to

The true nature of "no shirk" in the doctrine of Islam, or
The translation issue of "Allah" and "Ilah".

It's like I'm speaking about Asia , and you are speaking about there is one planet in the universe called Pluto. What ? confused

If they want to discuss the issue of translation, then the issue remains unanswered is in this post.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606622.msg352206#msg352206
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606622.msg352209#msg352209
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606622.msg352221#msg352221
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606622.msg352225#msg352225

However, this thread is not about the issue of translation of "Ilah" or "Allah" etc. . .
but it is about tawheed, "no shirk", no duality.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Allah is a powerful energy in the universe and the only one of that kind. Nothing in existence that we know of can rival with God and according to The Master there is nothing either. And how can you challenge God too considered we are all within a say from being put out of misery should Allah want (says die and you die).

But I suppose muslims would like to get back to his topic of unity within diversity however weird idea that sounds.

Personally I think sects with additional gods have a problem being accepted by The Master though. You cannot expect Allah to like not trying to invite to The Master's command and criticize them for what they do by informing them about the one God and why it would not work with many gods in command simultaneously. That would be utter chaos.

But, to give a little credit to 'muslims', I would say that the assembly should respect and accept those misguided and in a friendly and strategical way invite to the assembly of God. And that respect as long as they do not turn violent and oppressive and then only use as much violence as required to settle things. But zealotry to force the command of God upon people is not allowed.

God bless you