Unity Within Diversity

Zulf

Yes, I suggest you read the book and the explanation is very clear about the concept of tawheed, the true nature of "no shirk" in the doctrine of Islam. It is just a simple book.

I've read a third to half so far... and I like it! My thinking is very similar to what the book is saying. I think I'll be able to learn and expand/elaborate my thinking further with the help of this book.

Peace

Jafar

I suppose "Unity within Diversity" most likely will work if all parties/groups (who are willing to unite) are not being selfish and genuinely uphold & apply tolerance to achieve peaceful situation for all parties/groups.

True, it's all had to do with tolerance and humility.

As selfish sprung from pride.
With pride there cannot be any tolerance to differences.
From pride came the need of proving that I/We are right and You/They are wrong, I/We are winner and You/They are loser.

However, tolerance must have it's limits.
Otherwise these deeds

Murder / Human Sacrifice
Oppression / Slavery
Rape
Robbery / Theft / Raid
Will be tolerated for the sake of 'unity'.

muslims

I've read a third to half so far... and I like it! My thinking is very similar to what the book is saying. I think I'll be able to learn and expand/elaborate my thinking further with the help of this book.

Please share. . . I believe our thinking will expand when our Tawheed is correct, ie. the understanding of the true nature of "no shirk" and which against the concept of "illusionary god" taught to us since our childhood and by the society etc. The God who think and act like a man.

Zulf

Haven't finished it yet, but in the meantime I can say that by the word god/God, we can say that we mean God-image, i.e. whatever image we make up of God in our minds, and which by default will be incorrect, especially if it involve God having human emotions etc. I often tend to agree with the standpoints of atheists who denounce the existence of God, because what they generally reject are the man-like images of God that religion often throw at us. I believe the atheists rightly reject these silly images... but then they don't go any further, but instead shut down on anything unseen, which doesn't bring them any closer to reality either.

muslims

Haven't finished it yet, but in the meantime I can say that by the word god/God, we can say that we mean God-image, i.e. whatever image we make up of God in our minds, and which by default will be incorrect, especially if it involve God having human emotions etc. I often tend to agree with the standpoints of atheists who denounce the existence of God, because what they generally reject are the man-like images of God that religion often throw at us. I believe the atheists rightly reject these silly images... but then they don't go any further, but instead shut down on anything unseen, which doesn't bring them any closer to reality either.

I believe an Atheist is searching for "direct evidence" of God and this is impossible, especially when they can't even understand their body organs and emotions, or even flies. . . It doesn't work that way because we human being must rely on "circumstantial and corroborative evidence" and choose the right path. There will never be "direct evidence" for the existence of Allah.

. . .

Secondly, they don't believe in "God" and "no God".
The believe in the "possibility". . .
That's why they define as "lack of belief in God", which they insist as "without belief in God".
(which is quite absurd, because "lack" is not "without", eg. "Lack of faith" does not mean there is no faith. . and they also refused to say they don't believe in God, because then they have to bring evidence "Why God doesn't exists?", when there is supernatural higher intelligence and everything is subjected to the law of cause and effect)

According to them. . . the issue is

Whether it is impossible that god exists
Whether it is possible that god exists

They said their ideology it is not about God, but about the "possibility"

However, I concluded that . . .

The assumption here is "god exists",
ie. it is the "subject matter" or "facts of the discussion"

The "possibility" is the issue, it is not the "subject matter" or "facts of the discussion"

Thus, the "possibility" on its own is "meaningless".
It must have the "subject matter", ie. "God".
For example. . .

"The House"
"The" is meaningless. . .it must have the subject matter, ie. "House"

. . .

For this reason . . we can say that they are "invisible" and have "no argument"
No one can have a rational argument with them. .
because one have to acknowledge in something before there can be any "possibility", ie. they must believe . .

There is no God
There is God

(both existed and it this the issue and subject matter of "possibility&quot

It follows that they cannot deny and must admit that part of them . .

Believe in God.

Is this hypocrisy or not?

Therefore, I believe to be an Atheist is about the religion of hypocrisy (hypocrites) . . they are not the true atheist, and
They are still struggling for the "correct definition for their ideology" so that they can escape any "burden of proof"
and said "I deny, I deny, I deny". . without making any "contention", without confirming or denying to anything.

This is their main mission and objective, to escape any "burden of proof", create doubt, deny everything and create division.
It is the religion of hypocrisy and religion of negativism.

On the other hand, their definition infers that they have to believe in "God" before they can create the the "possibility" there is no god, before they can counter their believe or confirmation that there is "no god", ie. another contention which they must prove and bring evidence to show "Why God doesn't exists?", the same way we must prove "Why God exists?".

Else, the "possibility" on its own is "meaningless". .

They need to "Be invisible"

No Belief = No Existence. . . and therefore "No Argument"

. . .

Contradictorily, Muslim believe in the "Quran" (real evidence), and the system in the Quran, ie. the "Deen" of Islam.
None is equivalent to Allah, and no one knows what is Allah. . .
and the Quran commands us to ignore the "allegorical" (3.7) because no one knows its interpretation.

and that's why there is "follow the Messenger", ie.

It is about the believe in the Quran (real evidence), words from Muhammad. . .
The Quran is the "hadith", and no one witnessing how Allah reveals the Quran to Muhammad.
No one on its own can prove that it is from Allah.

Further, the Quran distinguish, "Believers" (faith), and "Muslim" (obedience).
It is a trade system, we sell our "obedience" (muslim) to Allah , and Allah pay us with "faith" (believers)
The more we sell to Allah, the more "faith" we have.

Refer here One don't have to believe in Allah to be a Muslim

This is the difference between Islam and Atheist
Muslim believe in the Quran (real evidence)
and the Atheist is struggling to escape any "burden of proof"
They have no real products (ideology or doctrine),
They are not the "trees", but they are the "parasitic plants" that kill the trees.

and I believe Islam "products" is about,

No God
No Religion
No Nonsense

Only Deen of Islam, ie. universal and practical living, ie. "real products" (trees).

Scribbler

Salam alaykum.

If Allah is not 'God', then what is the English word for Allah? If you say that there is no English word for Allah, then my question to you is, is Allah an Arabic word? Or is it a proper name or title?

muslims

If you wish to call Allah as God, then no problem at all. . . . it is just an issue of languages.

So, now I'm quite confused which issue they are referring to

The true nature of "no shirk" in the doctrine of Islam, or
The translation issue of "Allah" and "Ilah".

If they want to discuss the issue of translation, then the issue remains unanswered is in this post.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606622.msg352206#msg352206
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606622.msg352209#msg352209
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606622.msg352221#msg352221
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606622.msg352225#msg352225

However, this thread is not about the issue of translation of "Ilah" or "Allah" etc. . .
but it is about tawheed, "no shirk", no duality.

muslims

How to stop oppression and wars in the Muslim world ?

Simple. . . by following the Quran, and declaring that there is no issue relating to "texts or belief", no issue relating to "God", and no issue relating to "rituals".

The core values of Islam is that there is no argument in the areas of

Nature of their Texts and Belief.
Nature of their God.
Nature of their Rituals.

For that, you shall preach and be upright (living justly balanced)
as you have been commanded
and do not follow their wishes (for sectarianism). And say

?I believe in all that God has sent down from Scripture, <- nature of their texts and belief
and I was commanded to be with justice with you. <- Muslim's concern, creating balance in the society
God is our Lord and your Lord. <- nature of their God
We have our deeds and you have your deeds. <- nature of their rituals/practices
There is no argument between us and you. <- unity within diversity
God will gather us all together, and to Him is the ultimate destiny.?
42.15

As we can see, many have been using the issue of "God", "belief" and "rituals" to attack and oppress Muslim ummah and countries. It is the main factor for the division of the Muslim Ummah. It is the main factor for them to manipulate "Islam", using the issue of terrorism and bring their troops to rob country's wealth etc. They have control religious leaders and been playing this game for quite a long time.

Therefore, once the Muslim Ummah follow the core values of the Quran and declare the above principle as their main doctrine of Islam, ie. the unconditional freedom of religion, the enemy have no issue to attack and oppress the Muslim Ummah and countries. They can no longer manipulate the issue of "terrorism" and the terrorist is automatically excluded from being a Muslim. There will be no sectarianism and the Ummah and the True Believers in all religions will be able to unite for peace and harmony.

The only issue left for the enemy of peace and harmony is the "political issue", and whether there are committing justice or oppression.

Allah is not to be blamed, it is Muslim who doesn't follow the Quran.

And whoever turns away from My direction and guidance (i.e. knowledge and science)
his worldly sustenance will be narrowed
and We shall raise him blind on the Day of Resurrection
20.124

Yosemite

So how do you go about convincing a feminist about anything related to the quran or religions?

You know feminists will never accept your message, unless you change everything the feminist finds offensive in the quran, and make it "feminist friendly"

homosexuals did this with the bible, do you think we should let special snowflakes and other special privilege people change the quran so they can accept the message?
what would be left of the message if we let them modify it...

muslims

We don't need to convince anyone
but we identify the rules and just speak the truth about "unconditional freedom of religion" (main theme of the Quran)
like what many Prophets did, just reminding people
and leave for Allah to do the rest, we only do human jobs

The truth will always remain as the truth, sooner or later. . .
and it will eliminates wars and oppression against the Ummah
It will bring unity within diversity . . .

He sent down water from the sky

so valleys flowed according to their capacity

and the flood produces foam
And from what they burn to smelt jewelry or goods is produced a similar foam

It is in such a manor that God strikes the falsehood with the truth

As for the foam, it passes away <- falsehood
and as for what benefits the people
it remains in the Earth <- truth

It is such that God puts forth the examples
13.17

The above is the Sunnatullah, and we follow the flows of that energy . . . "benefits the people"

Zulf

So how do you go about convincing a feminist about anything related to the quran or religions?

You know feminists will never accept your message, unless you change everything the feminist finds offensive in the quran, and make it "feminist friendly"

homosexuals did this with the bible, do you think we should let special snowflakes and other special privilege people change the quran so they can accept the message?
what would be left of the message if we let them modify it...

What points would a feminist reject from the quran?
Right now I can only think of two inheritance shares and number of witnesses.

Peace

Zulf

Peace muslims,

Hulusi says in his book that two angels will ask us in the grave who our nabi is.... .... sigh
It started off very, very nice, but ended up in a hadith-orgie.

muslims

Hulusi says in his book that two angels will ask us in the grave who our nabi is.... .... sigh
It started off very, very nice, but ended up in a hadith-orgie.

Of course, I believe he is a Sunni or else. .

However, we cannot find one group of belief that is perfect in this world
God make them that way, and people in search for truth choose what to believe from various groups of people in this world
They learn from each other experiences, traditions and cultures. . not adhering to bigotism

and one or few wrongs don't mean all what he said is wrong
There are certain things that is right
There are certain things that is wrong, yin and yang
It is the Sunnatullah. . .
But we can balance what they said from the Quran, the "confirming function" of the Quran

http//1.bp.blogspot.com/-_ghCpHM1Yi4/Uqvd_yGyraI/AAAAAAAAARM/pwDqWu2kVwU/s1600/confirm.png

Zulf

Of course, I believe he is a Sunni or else. .

However, we cannot find one group of belief that is perfect in this world
God make them that way, and people in search for truth choose what to believe from various groups of people in this world
They learn from each other experiences, traditions and cultures. . not adhering to bigotism

and one or few wrongs don't mean all what he said is wrong
There are certain things that is right
There are certain things that is wrong, yin and yang
It is the Sunnatullah. . .
But we can balance what they said from the Quran, the "confirming function" of the Quran

http//1.bp.blogspot.com/-_ghCpHM1Yi4/Uqvd_yGyraI/AAAAAAAAARM/pwDqWu2kVwU/s1600/confirm.png

Peace,

You are 100% right.
It is just that I have to discipline my obnoxious mind when it gets disappointed when finding crap among gems in a persons writings. My mind keeps feeling awkward and uneasy when a person who writes something very wise and insightful, suddenly produces something dubious, outrageous and ignorant. But I'm fully aware of that nobody is perfect and nobody has perfect knowledge... and I have to constantly remind myself thereof. My mind is infected by an unrealistic expectation of perfectionism... mostly in myself, but I also know this doesn't go with reality. It's just something I have to work on.
The issue though that makes it a bit difficult, is that when I find some nonsense, then it is also harder for me to trust the sensible information... "what if it is just sweet sounding imagination?". So I guess it all comes down to keeping the head cool and objective, and to have a sensible way of sorting 'plausibly true' from 'fairy tales'. Verse 1736 then comes to mind, but one effect is that there is not much left that we actually can hold for true within ourselves when we must verify everything.

I'm going to check out this sufi dude's other writings aswell.

Peace