Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
-
wow. I am floored. I need time to digest this. but it seems very much fitting. and just so I happen I came across the following from another thread as well...
I believe sectarianism is a religion even if someone called themselves as an atheist etc. . . they are religious people.
and I believe Islam came to end the ideology of religion and sectarianism. . .
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjBDDC4wVxkand which, of course. . the religious people or sectarians during that time cannot accept the idea of "no religion or no sectarianism"
And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you
but do not aggress, God does not love the aggressors
And kill them wherever you encounter them
and expel them from where they expelled you
and know that persecution is worse than being killed
And do not fight them at the Restricted Temple unless they fight you in it
if they fight you then kill them
thus is the recompense of the rejecters (of human unity)
And if they cease, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
And fight them so there is no more persecution
and so that the system (of no sectarianism) is for God
If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked
2190-193(Chapter 2 is the first chapter after migrated to Medina)
no sectarianism and maintaining human unity are the "core values" of Islam, no idolism, it is the "highest priority". .
therefore it doesn't matter if they are good or bad people, but if they are sectarians and oppress people
or promoting oppression and war through sectarianism, or condemn other religions, traditions and cultures etc
they will lose their head. . . others issues are left for Allah to decideand maybe in the next few years, very soon. . . there will be jihad between Muslim, to change leadership
to fight those who make Islam as a religion, and it will happen very fast, as equal to life in Mecca and Medina
and then. . many countries will go bankrupt, disasters etc . . becoming poor countries
and they will have no money to go into war or build military equipments etc
then there will be war against the sectarians, and within the next 130 years from now. .
The ideology of Islam (no sectarianism) will rule the world for the next 700 yearsthis is just my opinion
-
But "unity" is a fact, a reality. Everything is one, that is the well-kown tawhid.
Wht I think Man of Faith means indeed is communion, because if unity is a fact not something that is established by any human act, then the only thing we can do is acknowledge, realise, be conscious of such unity, that is what communion is, The conscioussness of being one. In that sense it does make sense.
Salaam
-
Peace huruf,
But after giving it some thought I am sure the word indicates belonging, but a problem is that it is belonging to a group of people, i.e. those who are keeping peace, but it does not mean you can force people to have faith in God. Communion was partially right though and may still not be bad, but we need to understand its (salat) intricate meaning.
The birds, flying in formation, know their belonging. You see the magical praying birds get a better habit now.
But the word does not mean pray because that is zealous and dogmatic as in passages you are told to force people to observe salat. Obviously it means to observe the unity or belonging as we are all from the same God. And we are told to establish salat, ie unity as humans and not be in opposing groups and dividing into conjectural groups being arrogant and confused.
So there is no religion called islam, christianity or judaism and that is what God in the middle-eastern narrative wanted to convey and tell them to unite and keep together. God did not tell them to force anyone into more than ceasing oppression and mischief.
God bless you
-
Peace Bender,
Thanks for your support. Let us fine-tune the best definition to use for the word. As far as I have understood the commandment is to keep the belonging or community intact and devoted to God without separating into sects which always proves fatal as we have real-world examples of.
Just like the birds who keep their belonging (instinctively by lacking self-awareness) and do what they are supposed to do then we are supposed to do what we are supposed to do and we are self-aware and intelligent and guidance is already sent down. Yet people dispute about things.
And we are responsible for informing people (delivering the "message" which I interconnect with the terms as-salat al-fajr/isha, at this time. And also it seems the recitation is aimed towards someone who takes an active role in spreading the message.
I am currently in progress in translating the whole recitation so I may discover an even better translation while I correct the incorrect passages.
God bless you
-
Peace Man of Faith.
While there is nothing wrong in searching for the truth and studying the scripture, there is a lot wrong with conjecture and talk without solid back up.
It is not about who supports you or agrees with you from people. It is about GOD s support. However GOD sends messengers and commands.
Yes,God Sends His Commands Through His Messengers1444
You shall warn the people of the day when the retribution comes to them. Those who transgressed will say, "Our Lord, give us one more respite. We will then respond to Your call and follow the messengers." Did you not swear in the past that you will last forever?Good luck and keep seeking GOD s support, because our ego can take many disguises including making us think we are guided?
May the Lord guide us, unite us and explain "Aquimi Salat" to those who are not sure.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace good logic,
While there is nothing wrong in searching for the truth and studying the scripture, there is a lot wrong with conjecture and talk without solid back up.
I am aware of the fact of bringing up something without solid backup and that is why I am working hard to show it truthfully both to myself and others. It has been a careful research verse after verse parsing and parsing of the ancient Arabic. It is not easy with a such abused discourse (abused in interpretation). I use a method of cross-checking all words and also sometimes looking on the context and see if there is something fishy about what is written there just by an overview of it. And because I have faith in God I trust The Master's guidance in finding the right interpretation. And I avoid using dictionaries unless ultimately required because I doubt them, it is risk of being a biased source just as translations are and it is why I try not to only look on translations to find the final rendition.
Anyways, bond/link/connection is in a way a correct interpretation of the base word as people have suggested and I think this is why it has been given other meanings than intended. The problem is that you need to interpret the word correctly in your mind and also find a way to fathom it in English for example and also included in the context in a way that makes sense.
It is not about who supports you or agrees with you from people. It is about GOD s support. However GOD sends messengers and commands.
Yes. God supports those who live according to the decree, judgment and command of God.
Good luck and keep seeking GOD s support, because our ego can take many disguises including making us think we are guided?
It is the least thing I would like to cause you to become misguided.
May the Lord guide us, unite us and explain "Aquimi Salat" to those who are not sure.
Yes. May the Master guide those who are worthy of knowing it.
Yes,God Sends His Commands Through His Messengers
Yes. And what exactly do you think that a messenger would preach? Take the recitation and the examples of messengers of old and not only the messenger receiving the revelation of the recitation. And I did not intend any sarcasm in this.
God bless you
-
Harmony be with you,
Where is my prayer, o brother Man of Faith?
Now that we know that 'salat' does not, at least directly, mean "contact prayer", and some may think that I am removing verbal/non-verbal communication with The Master from the table entirely and that is not true, so let us find actual praying in the recitation. We can start by pinpointing an example of a word that is a likely candidate where 'salat' failed miserably, because not did you think that I would advocate a faith where God is not in the center of action.
338 It was then that Zachariah implored his Lord; he said ?My Lord, grant me from You a good progeny. You are the hearer of prayer.?
Red The highlighted word is al-dua, most likely by definition the word to use for when you pray for guidance and implore God about something.
Let us make a check where the word occurs throughout the recitation. It returns in a negative context in 2171
2171 And the example of those who disbelieve oppose is like one who repeats what he has heard of calls and cries; deaf, dumb, and blind, they do not comprehend.
It is perhaps a coincidence, but it reminds me of the alleged utterance of Jesus about Pagans and "their many words", and a resemblance of the parroting of (same) phrases in sectarian prayer activity. It actually struck me quite much while checking this passage. Especially when you read the passage before that one, 2170.
2170 And if they are told ?Follow what God has sent down,? they say ?No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing!? What if their fathers did not comprehend anything and were not guided?
It interestingly sounds much like they simply use the same parroting of passages over and over again instead of really praying to God for something relevant.
Let us move on to another instance of the word in question
2186 And if My servants ask you about Me, I am near answering the calls of those who call to Me. So let them respond to Me and have faith in Me that they may be guided.
Yes indeed, this is traditional praying as intended. You can clearly see that the root means 'call' (green). The same word is used for when Zachariah "prays/calls", so you cannot deny that it ought to mean what is traditionally referred to as "prayer", and more accurately than 'salat' which does not even connote on prayer but rather the unity between those who belong to the "Unity of God", the assembly of God, or what term to use to refer to those who people. I would say that the community (ummah) that forms an assembly is an "al-bayat" (the word is not a physical building but it means the English equivalent of "assembly"!)
I will give a couple of examples from the people of Moses when they tell him to pray to God for assistance.
261 And you said ?O Moses, we will not be patient to one type of food, so call for us your Lord that He may bring forth what the earth grows of its beans, cucumbers, garlic, lentils, and onions.? He said ?Would you trade that which is lowly with that which is good?? Descend Egypt, you will have in it what you have asked for. And they were stricken with humiliation and disgrace, and they remained under the wrath of God for they were disbelieving in the revelations of God, and killing the prophets without right; this is for what they have disobeyed and transgressed.
268 They said ?Call upon your Lord for us that He may clarify which it is.? He said ?He says it is a heifer neither too old nor too young, an age between that. So now do as you are commanded.?
I will not take any more examples from the people of Moses, but there you had two, and they were so weak in faith that they asked Moses to pray on their behalf instead of strengthening their faith themselves.
2221 And do not marry the female polytheists until they believe. For a believing female servant is better than a polytheist even if she attracts you. And do not marry the male polytheists until they believe. For a believing male servant is better than a polytheist even if he attracts you. Those invite call to the Fire, while God is inviting calling to the Paradise and forgiveness by His consent. He clarifies His revelations for the people that they may remember.
The English word 'pray' does not fit the context using the same word as previously in this post, but in my world it only means that the phenomenon of referring to calls unto The Master as "praying" is a man-made invention. The English word 'pray' comes originally from Latin and could connote on 'request', i.e. to implore. It is definitely not wrong to call it to pray and the word is deeply rooted in the activity you perform when you implore God about something. The Arabic counterpart is a slightly more flexible word as it can be given different perspectives, as in 2221 above a viable translation is 'invite' although 'call' is still more accurate.
2260 And Abraham said ?My Lord, show me how you resurrect the dead.? He said ?Do you not already believe?? He said ?I do, but it is so my heart can be relieved.? He said ?Choose four birds, then cut them, then place parts of the birds on each mountain, then call them to you; they will come racing towards you. And know that God is Noble, Wise.?
And if you call/request upon someone then you need to contact something/someone, so here, to follow the pathetic traditionalism you can insert "contact call" here.... joke. Interestingly birds are involved in the "praying" as usual hmm
2282 O you who have faith, if you borrow for a future period, then you shall decree it. And let a jurist of justice decree it for you; and let not the jurist refuse to decree as God has taught him. Let him decree and let the person who is borrowing dictate to him, and let him be aware of God, and let him not reduce from it anything. If the one who is borrowing is immature or weak or he cannot dictate himself, then let his guardian dictate with justice; and bring two witnesses from among your men; if there are not two men, then a man and two women from whom you will accept their testimony, so that if one of them becomes blindsided, then the one can remind the other. And let the witnesses not refuse to come if they are called. And do not fail to decree it no matter how small or large until its maturity. That is more just with God and better for the testimony, and better that you do not have doubts; except if it is a trade to be done on the spot between you, then there is no sin upon you if you do not decree it. And have evidence if you trade. No jurist shall be harmed nor any witness; for if you do so then it is a wickedness on your part, and be aware of God and God teaches you and God is aware of all things.
Red Alternatively requested or summoned.
323 Did you not see those who were given a portion of the decree being invited called to the decree of God to judge between them, then a group of them turns away while they are adverse?
361 Whoever debates with you in this after the knowledge has come to you, then say ?Let us call/summon our children and your children, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then, let us (prophesize and) invoke and make the curse of God upon the liars.?
Blue Suggested input by me.
Let us go back to the topic of "prayers" and to call upon god(s) or things which is unknown for you. You have probably already understood that the word is indicating what is thought to be praying through the 'as-salat'.
4117 They are calling on females besides Him. Indeed, they are only calling on a persistent devil.
Red I.e. they are praying to these females and think they will make any difference for them. They call unto them for God knows what. But the important lesson here is that if you do this towards God then you pray to God, simple as that, even if the word rather means call/implore/request, but is that not the meaning of the "prayer" activity anyway?
640 Say ?We will see when the retribution of God comes to you, or the Hour comes to you, if you will still call on any other than God. If you are being truthful.?
I.e. will they "pray" to any other than God in that situation?
641 ?No, it is Him alone you will call on; and He will remove that which you called Him for, if He wills; and you will forget what you set up.?
You need to remember that the Arabic uses this word, , and it causes a conflict with the activity of which the sectarian people are doing, be it Christians or most "Muslims", as they request the words or teachings of their "beloved" ( >( ) prophet instead of the true decree and judgment and restrictions, so in reality they call (ا upon others than God through the Arabic tongue point of view, because it inclines on to request something. But as this passage says all they do is request a rebellious devil
4117 They are calling on females besides Him. Indeed, they are only calling on requesting/summoning a persistent devil.
Even if they do not actively "pray" to Muhammad, because they request his "Sunnah" they are sadly enough fulfilling the criterion of these passages which talk about calling on others because of the Arabic word's connotations.
My intention with this post was not to discuss 'mushriks' (associators) however, so let us move on with the "prayers".
663 Say ?Who rescues you from the darkness of the land and the sea?? You call (pray/request/implore) on Him in humility and in secret ?If You save us from this, we will be of the thankful!?
75 Then their only saying calling when Our punishment came to them was ?We were wicked!?
It is obviously the only kind of call they could utter while being utterly destroyed.
Here comes a passage where several of my discoveries shine with their light.
729 Say ?My Master orders justice, and that you be ones mindful of every respect-giving, and that you call on Him, while being devoted to Him in the command; as He initiated you, so you will return.?
755 Call (pray/request/implore) on your Lord in humility and in secret. He does not like the aggressors.
756 And do not corrupt the earth after it has been made right; and call on Him fearing and hoping. Surely the might of God is near the righteous.7180 And to God belong the most beautiful names, so call Him by them; and leave alone those who deviate His names. They will be punished for what they used to do.
Red So much for this "Allah" obsession, huh?
7189 He is the One who has created you from one person, and He made from it its mate to reside with. When he dwelled with her, she became pregnant with a light load, and she continued with it; then when it became heavy, they called on God, their Master ?If You give us an upright child, then we will be among the thankful.?
If you deny that these people are not praying then I do not know what it wrong with you people.
1012 And when hardship touches man, he calls upon Us on his side or sitting or standing. But when We remove his hardship from him, he carries on as if he never called upon Us for a hardship which touched him! Thus it was made to appear good to the transgressors what they had done.
On the other hand, your beloved "contact prayer" , i.e. unity (within the assembly) is another story. A salat can be any gathering, information meeting about God or any righteous activity. It could be singing praises to God or whatever you like. When people are together it is salat. A meeting in a mosque or church to celebrate God can be salat, but it does not mean pray per definition.
God bless you
-
Peace,
Thanks brother mmkhan. I may do so at some point.
The topic of this thread is about what makes one gain Nearness and Guidance, Knowledge and Wisdom and Peace and Prosperity and then its reader needs to know the guide clearly and not through a lot of bias.
Getting rid of invented ritualistic behavior is part of the need, if one believes that God decreed it. Personal deeds, aka rites, is another story.
But you are right. I may need to start a dedicated thread for 'salat' if I want more attention, however the attention is not what I seek. The thread is just channeling of my thinking while I work on a much bigger project. What you see in the thread is just a small part of what is going on at the moment. And I am more aware of the truth by the day.
Another reason I do not create more threads is because my research is to extensive as I am scanning the whole discourse and I am just searching for inconsistency caused by erroneous interpretation rather than lackluster literal quality. If I made many threads I would just confuse myself because I can work on one word one night and then another day I am on three different subjects at the same time.
Be good and have faith was one of my first discoveries. It is repeated many times in the narration and frequently enough to draw the conclusion that it is the foundation of serving God. I immediately begun to wonder where people got all the rituals from and strange conjecture.
I try to learn myself at this point and if I manage to get someone else to benefit from what I studied then I am happy. I will announce my discoveries more heavily in time.
God bless you
-
Peace,
Obsession with the name "Allah" for many Muslims. They think God's proper name is 'Allah', while God only has a name so that we can refer to The Master in some way. I think some even called God "I am that I am". God is nameless or possessing any beautiful name we wish to refer with if we must (which is handy when using our verbal capability).
I did verily not mean that obsession with 'Allah' as an entity is negative.
God bless you
-
Nice MoF, very nice indeed!
By the way, the sectarians always have answers to everything. In my own sunni experience, the story was always that 'dua' is a prayer you utter wherever and whenever, without special format, but the 'salat' was an obligatory prayer with a set format.
What I always found odd and crazy was that 'salat' was called prayer, because there was never any praying done in the salat. It was just the running through the prescribed sentences and motions, and then when the 'salat' was over, you did you 'dua' before getting up. That was very odd to me. The actual calling on God (as per your current needs and thoughts) was just a minor thing attached at the end of the 'salat' before you finished the whole exercise. So it is indeed weird that 'salat' is called prayer... because it includes no prayer! It only includes a scripted parroting of sentences.
And the other very odd thing was that 'salat' was always considered the important thing... the thing not to miss, the thing which gave you credits and point, the obligatory thing that gave your spiritual nourishment.... while the 'dua' (normal common requesting and thanking prayer to God) was considered less. Indeed it is odd... Much more value is placed on something mechanistic, mindless, uniform and non-productive act (salat) while the personal, intimate, tailor made, situation specific, progress seeking act (dua) is not regarded very highly at all. Ironic. But I guess it really reflects the so called "muslim" societies... where conformity is obligatory and personal growth is repressed.
Peace
-
Peace brother Zulf,
It was already obvious to me the first time I figured out that means more of link, bond and/or connection that something is not right with how it is perceived and it cannot mean prayer because it merely indicates a (tight) connection between two (or more) entities.
on the other hand means calling/requesting and it suits the purpose of why you perform the activity at all.
Then people invented physical moves on top of that and we already know from the past that Pagans are fans of ritualistic behavior and they feel proud over their umany (same) words. Is it 4 times pair of prostrations or is it 3? Sounds like the story of Moses' sacrificed heifer or the past narratives of restrictions that people invented.
Not wishing to ridicule prostration because it is an ancient way of greeting someone extra humbly, but I do not like when people abuse a discourse to extract a meaning not there. If you are overwhelmed by the grace of God some people fall down on their knees in reverence without a text enforcing the behavior. And there is no compulsion.
Now with some distance to the behavior I find it a bit weird to first bow down and then raise up and then go down on knees and forehead on the ground. It is two greetings in the same. A prostration is a further bow down hence the expression bow down the head to the ground.
God bless you
-
By the way, the sectarians always have answers to everything. In my own sunni experience, the story was always that 'dua' is a prayer you utter wherever and whenever, without special format, but the 'salat' was an obligatory prayer with a set format.
What I always found odd and crazy was that 'salat' was called prayer, because there was never any praying done in the salat. It was just the running through the prescribed sentences and motions, and then when the 'salat' was over, you did you 'dua' before getting up. That was very odd to me. The actual calling on God (as per your current needs and thoughts) was just a minor thing attached at the end of the 'salat' before you finished the whole exercise. So it is indeed weird that 'salat' is called prayer... because it includes no prayer! It only includes a scripted parroting of sentences.
And the other very odd thing was that 'salat' was always considered the important thing... the thing not to miss, the thing which gave you credits and point, the obligatory thing that gave your spiritual nourishment.... while the 'dua' (normal common requesting and thanking prayer to God) was considered less. Indeed it is odd... Much more value is placed on something mechanistic, mindless, uniform and non-productive act (salat) while the personal, intimate, tailor made, situation specific, progress seeking act (dua) is not regarded very highly at all. Ironic.
True,
I always pondered on the 'mechanized ritual' with fetish of 'paying attention to every details' within Sunniism.
A slight differences even to the details of 'what finger to use during the attahiyat' can cause a stir within the community.
And they often mentioned on how the 'shiite' are 'infidel' due to the 'technicality of their salat' which is somewhat difference to the Sunni.
In Sunniism everyone is obsessed with 'similarity' and 'conformity'...I then decided to 'look outside' and see who else has similar fetish as 'us'..
Christians doesn't have the same fetishes to at least equal degree..
Buddhist.. they're liberal.. you're free to meditate in any way you see fit.And then aha!!.. Rabbanical Orthodox Judaism...
Not only they share the same 'fetish' of 'the detailed technicalities of praying ritual' (what to say, where to face, the body movement etc..) they go even further to govern on what dress and motive of the shawl one should be wearing during such ritual.Besides Rabbanical Orthodox Judaism I haven't found others with at least the same degree of fetish towards 'similarity' and 'conformity' on the technicality of ritual as Islam.
Which then shaped my opinion that Islam is actually Judaism 2.0But I guess it really reflects the so called "muslim" societies... where conformity is obligatory and personal growth is repressed.
Conformity and repression of 'thinking' is something that Judaism and their proto-Judaism Tradition commonly share..
http//i51.photobucket.com/albums/f361/eilissiobhan/free_thinker.jpg -
Conformity and repression of 'thinking' is something that Judaism and their proto-Judaism Tradition commonly share..
http//i51.photobucket.com/albums/f361/eilissiobhan/free_thinker.jpgrotfl rotfl rotfl
Yes, the repression of free thinking is often part and parcel of organized religion, but it is basically found everywhere. FEAR is the thing which makes people hate free thinking. Fear goes opposite of peace and unity and love. Fear rules this world, and most of religion. Sometimes it's not fear of some enemy, but instead fear of being deviant and diverge from conformity, or fear of truly exploring and searching for enhanced understanding and what that may bring about.
Peace
-
All that nearness and guidance, knowledge and wisdom, peace and prosperity, God gives to whom He wills and when He wills.
Peace
sun
-
Peace GODSubmitter,
Yes indeed. But you need to hang on to the rope of God first for nearness and continue to purify yourself to receive guidance and once becoming better on those parameters and turning closer to God then there will also be immense knowledge and wisdom and together it means peace and prosperity.
Those who have faith and do good without giving God partners and who follow the decree and judgment will fall under the category "God guides as He wills". It is an encouragement for those who refuse to divide themselves into sects to feel that God will guide them and for sectarians not to be so full of pride.
God bless you