Why do you beleive the Quran to be the Word of GOD?
-
Because this Book just keep suprising me )
For example, last month scientific study confirmed that fasting can regenerate entire imune system, I mean, how could Muhammad or anyone else knew this thousands of years ago, author of the Quran just can't be a man. And this is just one example, there is hunderds of them.Unfortunately only small number of muslims actually truly understand Quran.
-
Because this Book just keep suprising me )
For example, last month scientific study confirmed that fasting can regenerate entire imune system, I mean, how could Muhammad or anyone else knew this thousands of years ago, author of the Quran just can't be a man. And this is just one example, there is hunderds of them.Unfortunately only small number of muslims actually truly understand Quran.
People hundreds of years ago... and why not thousands... probably understood much more about what works well for the human body. It is in these days of splitting the atom we totally have lost track of all things holistic and natural. We just try to solve it all with pills or scalpels. So I don't think it would have been to strange an idea for people long ago to see the connection between a fast and a strengthening of the health.
Of course... this was not a remark on the divine origins of the quran.
Peace
-
Peace,
Hello. You should praise God for giving the message to Muhammad.
God bless you
-
I believe everything is from God, so does Quran. I will praise God and then to his Prophet Mohammed for the message.
Don't forget to praise Isa, Ibrahim, Adam, Noah, David, and all the rest too ;D
peace
-
Yes, Man of Faith,
anything wrong in thanking anyone and even praising someone for sharing us with his God given blessings?
Existential1,
Yes, Praise to all the God's noble creations that aid us, includes the Sun, moon, stars, natural forces and those men who are favored by God to help others. -
Peace,
It was their mission in life and they would not want to accept praise and they had their reward. If you would praise then these people would have responded "praise God, I am only relaying the information". They praise God for guidance and so should everyone else.
If they are to get a compliment it is perhaps a 'thank you', but then it is likely that they would reply "thank God". Why accept praise when God is responsible for the guidance and inspiration?
God bless you
-
Peace All.
Coming back to " Why do you believe the Qoran to be the word of God?
Yes indeed,how do we know that a revelation like the Qoran is the word of God?
The criteria for truth can be easily understood by all-
-
RATIONAL TEACHINGS Since God bestowed reason and intellect on mankind, it is our duty to use it to distinguish truth from falsehood. True undistorted revelation from God must be rational and can be reasoned out by all unbiased minds.
-
PERFECTION Since God is all perfect, His revelation must be perfect and accurate, free from mistakes, omissions, intepolations and multiplicity of versions. It should be free from contradictions in its narration.
-
NO MYTHS OR SUPERSTITIONS True revelation from God is free from myths or superstitions that degrade the dignity of God or man.
-
SCIENTIFIC Since God is the Creator of all knowledge, true revelation is scientific and can with stand the challenge of science at all times.
-
PROPHECY God is the Knower of the past, present and future. Thus His word of prophecies in His revelation will be fulfilled as prophesied.
-
INIMITABLE BY MAN True revelation from God is infallible and cannot be imitated by man. God's true revelation is a Living miracle, an open Book challenging all mankind to see and prove for themselves.
The checking/confirming is yours. Take it away,study/ analyse/search/ponder...?
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
-
Peace, good logic.
There are actually a number of refutations for ALL of the points you mentioned... Personally, I do recognize the Qur'aan as being the Word of ALLAH (God); however, from a skeptical position, a few arguments could consist of the following
-
RATIONAL TEACHINGS Since God bestowed reason and intellect on mankind, it is our duty to use it to distinguish truth from falsehood. True undistorted revelation from God must be rational and can be reasoned out by all unbiased minds.
-
PERFECTION Since God is all perfect, His revelation must be perfect and accurate, free from mistakes, omissions, intepolations and multiplicity of versions. It should be free from contradictions in its narration.
-
NO MYTHS OR SUPERSTITIONS True revelation from God is free from myths or superstitions that degrade the dignity of God or man.
-
SCIENTIFIC Since God is the Creator of all knowledge, true revelation is scientific and can with stand the challenge of science at all times.
-
PROPHECY God is the Knower of the past, present and future. Thus His word of prophecies in His revelation will be fulfilled as prophesied.
-
INIMITABLE BY MAN True revelation from God is infallible and cannot be imitated by man. God's true revelation is a Living miracle, an open Book challenging all mankind to see and prove for themselves.
-
The Qur'aan makes assertions that (seemingly) suggest that the Earth is flat, and that the mountains 'stabilize' it. These are things that, today, we know to be complete absurdities and completely irrational. However, these were things that the Arabs of the 7th century probably believed, illustrating that the Qur'aan was written by someone who was no more familiar with science than were the people of his time.
-
Actually, there are several (differing) versions of the Arabic Qur'aan - the most popular being the Hafs and Warsh versions. There are also various verses that appear to contradict each other, which is why traditional Muslims (e.g. Salafiyya, Hanafiyya, etc.) propose the idea that some verses abrogate others.
-
The Qur'aan appears to speak of many mythological 'miracles' in its text, including stories of Moses turning his staff into a serpent, parting the sea with a stick, seeking guidance and having conversations with a fire ('burning bush'?); Jesus sculpting clay birds and bringing them to life by blowing into them, healing the sick; etc.
-
The Qur'aan doesn't always appear to be scientific. For instance, it asserts that the Universe (e.g. "samaa"/sky or heaven) was previously made of "dukhaan" (smoke); we know today that this claim is absurd. NOTE Some attempt to explain away the Qur'aanic depiction of this by stating that the Universe was previously made of 'gas', and that the Qur'aan was merely using a word that would best relate to that. However, there is already a word in Arabic for gas (e.g. "ghaaz", which wasn't used.
-
None of the prophecies stated in the Qur'aan have come to fruition; they are characterized, even today, as being relating to future events, which can't be verified or substantiated.
-
People actually have attempted to imitate the Qur'aan, even in the Islamic community - the most common being characterized as "ahadiyth" (narrations) of Muhammad. According to the stories in hadiyth, notably Bukhari, Muhammad allegedly stated that he received "the Qur'aan and something like it". If the ahadiyth and sunna is 'something like' the Qur'aan, then the Word of ALLAH isn't unique, and there are other books (written by men) that are comparable to it.
Again, I'm not saying that I don't personally recognize the Qur'aan as being the Word of ALLAH, because I do. However, I do for reasons entirely different from the ones mentioned. I was formerly a skeptic concerning the Qur'aanic revelation, and these are the responses I would've given for your arguments. There ultimately needs to be something MORE than this to verify its authenticity.
Would you disagree?
Peace,
Ahmad
-
-
You should put up those texts of the Qur'an where it contains the errors that you attribute to it. I do not recognize in the Qur'an the things you say. May be you thin that the Qur'an says what some people think it says.
You should quote literally, the original. It is no use to make the kinds of assertions you make. Quote it.
Salaam
-
Peace Ahmed Bilal.
Huruf is absolutely right.
Where are the verses that you imply are saying what you mention in your post?
The lack of understanding has led to such nonsense. The Qoran does not say/imply any of them things.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace, huruf.
You should put up those texts of the Qur'an where it contains the errors that you attribute to it. I do not recognize in the Qur'an the things you say. May be you thin that the Qur'an says what some people think it says.
You should quote literally, the original. It is no use to make the kinds of assertions you make. Quote it.
I'm not saying that the Qur'aan contains errors; I simply said that it SEEMINGLY contains errors, especially when being judged from skeptical and secular minds. For example, here are the references concerning the points I made
-
The Qur'aan implies that the Earth is flat (e.g. spread out/flattened). . The Qur'aan proposes that the Sun sets in muddy (or murky) water, which implies that the Sun actually rotates around the Earth. It also proposes the idea that a person can "reach" the place(s) where the Sun sets and rises.
-
The concept of certain Qur'aanic verses abrogating others is based on the traditional Islamic belief, and identification with, the ahadiyth attributed to Muhammad and the sahaaba. The seemingly contradicting passages are varied, and they range from the concept of ALLAH leading people astray vs. al-shaytaan leading people astray to the concept of ALLAH being responsible for all good and evil vs. ALLAH being only responsible for good and man being responsible for evil to who can be blamed for belief and disbelief, ALLAH or man . For the sake of argument, I won't post the statements made in ahadiyth concerning these passages (verses) being abrogated for other verses...
-
The Qur'aan indeed appears to cite many "magical" examples of 'miracles' happening at the hands of certain prophets. The ones I mentioned were with regard to Moses turning his staff into a snake , seeking guidance and talking to a fire , splitting the sea with a stick or staff ; and Jesus sculpting clay birds and breathing life into them, healing the sick, and even raising the dead to life !
-
The Qur'aan alleges that the Universe (e.g. "samaa"/skies or heavens) was, in its origination, composed of "dukhaan"/smoke - not gas or vapor, but SMOKE.
-
The "prophecies" in the Qur'aan are all dated to a further period. We can't specifically confirm that the prophecies mentioned within the book 'came true', since we can't necessarily authenticate that the Qur'aan was written prior to the events described within it (such as it allegedly implying that Muhammad would defeat the armies of Makka, etc.). We can't confirm the authenticity of certain prophecies if they haven't happened yet.
-
The position concerning people trying to replicate the Qur'aan, especially through the advent of ahadiyth and sunna, is a historical fact. Traditional Muslims around the world quote the hadiyth concerning Muhammad receiving the Qur'aan and "something like it". Again, this isn't an issue with the Qur'aan, but it's more an issue with ahadiyth and the traditional Muslim societies.
Peace,
Ahmad
-
-
Peace brother Ahmad Bilal,
I am not going to debate whether the recitation contains errors or not, but I am aware of the fact that in many occasions it is because the language is misinterpreted that people infer a meaning leading to these factual errors.
The Qur'aan proposes that the Sun sets in muddy (or murky) water, which implies that the Sun actually rotates around the Earth. It also proposes the idea that a person can "reach" the place(s) where the Sun sets and rises.
I do not assume that the author of the recitation you read was stupid, human or God, and the traditional narration of this sequence of passages does not make any sense. Either there is an error in the interpretation or it was written by a human and the whole recitation inspired by God chain falters completely.
The Qur'aan implies that the Earth is flat (e.g. spread out/flattened). .
This understanding depends on which interpretation you use. Even the sectarian Abdullah Yusuf Ali does not seem to translate it as a flat earth but rather it seems to be talking about soil being rolled out like a carpet (2023). Another is that the recitation was intended for a population in the dark ages and I think the language could not be too advanced and talking about space travel or things like that.
- The Qur'aan alleges that the Universe (e.g. "samaa"/skies or heavens) was, in its origination, composed of "dukhaan"/smoke - not gas or vapor, but SMOKE.
You should not take the interpretation of people living a 1000 years ago too seriously or contemporary people trying to find scientific miracles.
- The "prophecies" in the Qur'aan are all dated to a further period. We can't specifically confirm that the prophecies mentioned within the book 'came true', since we can't necessarily authenticate that the Qur'aan was written prior to the events described within it (such as it allegedly implying that Muhammad would defeat the armies of Makka, etc.). We can't confirm the authenticity of certain prophecies if they haven't happened yet.
It is strange that I have never really seen any prophesies in the recitation.
- The Qur'aan indeed appears to cite many "magical" examples of 'miracles' happening at the hands of certain prophets. The ones I mentioned were with regard to Moses turning his staff into a snake , seeking guidance and talking to a fire , splitting the sea with a stick or staff ; and Jesus sculpting clay birds and breathing life into them, healing the sick, and even raising the dead to life !
It is a matter of faith I guess. People like me fully believe that phenomena like this would happen granted that it was sanctioned by Creator. I am also a great fan of Star Wars and the use of the Force and my motto is "Everything is possible, nothing is impossible". I would not call it magic though but a natural thing if you are not restricted to the rules of this created world. Those without faith in the narration call it magic.
- The position concerning people trying to replicate the Qur'aan, especially through the advent of ahadiyth and sunna, is a historical fact. Traditional Muslims around the world quote the hadiyth concerning Muhammad receiving the Qur'aan and "something like it". Again, this isn't an issue with the Qur'aan, but it's more an issue with ahadiyth and the traditional Muslim societies.
They may try to replicate it, but it will always contain unrighteous things such as unethical punishments and oppression and zealotry towards people who do not think like you. And the instances where the recitation (Qur'an) seems to contain it then it has only been problems in the interpretation of the original Arabic language.
- The concept of certain Qur'aanic verses abrogating others is based on the traditional Islamic belief, and identification with, the ahadiyth attributed to Muhammad and the sahaaba. The seemingly contradicting passages are varied, and they range from the concept of ALLAH leading people astray vs. al-shaytaan leading people astray to the concept of ALLAH being responsible for all good and evil vs. ALLAH being only responsible for good and man being responsible for evil to who can be blamed for belief and disbelief, ALLAH or man . For the sake of argument, I won't post the statements made in ahadiyth concerning these passages (verses) being abrogated for other verses...
Not sure if my faith counts, but I do not think there is any particular individual that is leading people astray/confuse them, but it can be Satan or Mullahs or whoever. The times God confuse people is due to their unrighteous living and overall poor behavior. At this time I do not have any argument regarding the second example you gave, but I have found errors such as these to be due to poor interpretation.
Either way I do not treat the recitation as an idol and in fact it does not teach much more than for people to do good and have faith in God. And I have argued before that you could have faith in God and realize you will have to do good without ever putting your eyes towards the recitation (Qur'an). I have even found that by reading traditional translations the risk is only that you are put further away from God and indulge in invented rituals that were never decreed by the Force of the universe. I had faith before I encountered it in 2009, but after that year I begun to pray like "Muslims" and with all the rituals included, but now I realize I could just have continued being a Christian excluding the heavy idolization of Jesus. But I do not regret discovering about the recitation regardless because after personally sitting down and doing research around it I became much wiser, but most is because I found that it was inspired by God so my faith was enhanced. I am not so critical towards the text as a revelation, but hyper-critical towards any interpretation done by just about anyone, and also myself.
So far brainless rituals such as Hajj and Umrah have just been a grave misinterpretation by some wannabe person who could not understand what he read in the past. The hadith exposes itself because the same people who tried to interpret the recitation (Qur'an) sat down and wrote hadith around it too. Heck even assalat is not a ritualistic prayer but something else(!) After breaking these stupid myths "Islam" just looks like a revamped Christianity, which should not be so strange after all. It is supposed to be God moving onto another civilization and warning people not previously warned anyway and not an entirely new "religion".
The more I understand of what is written in the less I feel I need it, but I am also fascinated that such falsehood could be hidden in a piece of writing and that only due to that people twist what words mean. Dear brother bilal, be good and have faith, it is all that God says basically, except a small list of pretty obvious things that you probably already know from the so-called Mosaic Law and Christian values. You can basically just throw the book behind your back and just follow the good of what you already know. Ok, that was a bit harsh, but okay it contains some good moral lessons too. Just shame if you read it without trying alternative interpretations you will be stuck with a confused mind.
God bless you
-
Peace Ahmed Bilal.
Fine Let us go through the verses you listed in your post
1- Flat earth?
2053
He is the One who made the earth habitable for you, and paved in it roads for you. And He sends down from the sky water with which we produce many different kinds of plants.4310
He is the One who made the earth habitable for you, and created for you roads therein, that you may follow the right way.786
Did we not make the earth habitable?7930
He made the earth egg-shaped.*The Arabic word
dahhaahaa'' is derived fromDahhyah'' which means ``egg.
'Also "habitable" makes more sense since no other planet is habitable?Can you or anyone else find another planet as habitable to humans as earth?Now for the sun setting in murky water?
1886
When he reached the far west, he found the sun setting in a vast ocean, and found people there. We said, "O Zul-Qarnain, you can rule as you wish; either punish, or be kind to them."Here the meaning is not literal ,it seems like it is setting in the ocean according to the watcher!!! Otherwise you might as well say it rises on people literally as in
1890
When he reached the far east, he found the sun rising on people who had nothing to shelter them from it.So brother ,setting in the ocean, in murky water,in the mountain... are expressions/it seems like...Even at the time of Noah I do not believe anyone thought the sun sets somewhere on earth?
Brother ,I will God willing , carry on with the other verses in my next post i.e to be continued...
GOD bless you .
Peace. -
Peace,
Where I live the sun rises between the dwellings and sets in the park. Brother Ahmed Bilal, if you are looking for
guidance it is in Quran, if you are looking for errors (excuses) you will find them too!May you journey be fruitful
God bless
peace
-
Peace,
Where I live the sun rises between the dwellings and sets in the park. Brother Ahmed Bilal, if you are looking for
guidance it is in Quran, if you are looking for errors (excuses) you will find them too!May you journey be fruitful
God bless
peace
Exactly!
And
1025
God invites to the abode of peace, and guides whomever He wills in a straight path.Peace
sun
-
I have never been looking for science in the Qur'an but on the other hand I have never expected either that the Qur'an says anything wrong from any point of view.
What Ahmed Bilal said about the mountains and that the Qur'an says wrong, quite differently, without looking for it I found that the Qur'an i9n fact does very clearly know what it says when it says that mountains are pegs, because that is exactly what they are and what in scientifical terms is called isostasy, mountains are anchored deep into the crust under the level of flat land just as much as they tower over it and that makes for stabilisation of the earth, not the planet earth, the earth.
Was this common knowledge at the time of rebelation of the Qur'an? I doubt it. They did not have means of knowing how deept the mountains bore underneath.
Salaam
-
Peace Ahmed Bilal.
Continued...Quote from you
to the concept of ALLAH being responsible for all good and evil vs. ALLAH being only responsible for good and man being responsible for evil to who can be blamed for belief and disbelief, ALLAH or man . For the sake of argument, I won't post the statements made in ahadiyth concerning these passages (verses) being abrogated for other verses...Let us look at
4119
"I will mislead them, I will entice them, I will command them to (forbid the eating of certain meats by) marking the ears of livestock, and I will command them to distort the creation of God." Anyone who accepts the devil as a lord, instead of God, has incurred a profound loss.4120
He promises them and entices them; what the devil promises is no more than an illusion.In here brother, God is saying the majority of the believers will fall into Idolatry!!! And only themselves to blame? why?
Because it is your own decision who you follow. GOD or Satan? Everything that is not GOD s system is Satan s system!!
No one can blame another, GOD or others? Every one is given the faculties and the brain to check and make sure. How else can GOD try us? Who can come up with a better idea and still have justice?
And
1693
Had God willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He sends astray whoever chooses to go astray, and He guides whoever wishes to be guided.* You will surely be asked about everything you have done.GOD is saying here "you make your choice",It is up to you? What is your decision?
HE cannot be fairer than that!!! The fact that HE knows your decision is irrelevant.As for
478
Wherever you are, death will catch up with you, even if you live in formidable castles. When something good happens to them, they say, "This is from God," and when something bad afflicts them, they blame you. Say, "Everything comes from God." Why do these people misunderstand almost everything?479
Anything good that happens to you is from God, and anything bad that happens to you is from you. We have sent you as a messenger to the people,* and God suffices as witness.It simply means that nothing bad comes from GOD. Bad things are consequences of our own deeds!!
612
Say, "To whom belongs everything in the heavens and the earth?" Say, "To God." He has decreed that mercy is His attribute. He will surely summon you all on the Day of Resurrection, which is inevitable. The ones who lose their souls are those who disbelieve.GOD is not responsible for anyone. Everyone is only responsible for their own self. You win or you lose according to your own decisions and deeds.
Abrogation? I will continue in my next post GOD willing.GOD bless you.
Peace.