Issues on salat
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Peace Zulf.
If only things are easy as "not doing" because we do not want to do them. In that case I do not like getting up? I do not like doing most of the things that are good for me? Should I please myself?
I agree with you however that we need to study and understand why? Why do I need to do salat? What is Salat?
My advice is to study Qoran and ask His author for guidance to answer the questions posed above.
Each will need to have their own answers not anyone else s, because each one of us is responsible only for him/her self.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Thanks for your feedback good logic, )
Each will need to have their own answers not anyone else s, because each one of us is responsible only for him/her self.
Exactly! This is what I mean. We need to base our action and beliefs on our own deductions, experience, observation, inspiration nd understanding... not other's. It's our responsibility to ponder, and not to swallow things blindly just because the crowd does them and scares us with threats of Allah's dislike. One needs maturity and sincerity to navigate.
I agree with you however that we need to study and understand why? Why do I need to do salat? What is Salat?
My advice is to study Qoran and ask His author for guidance to answer the questions posed above.
Yes, it's our responsibility.
If only things are easy as "not doing" because we do not want to do them. In that case I do not like getting up? I do not like doing most of the things that are good for me? Should I please myself?
But do you know what's good for you and why? I mean, are you talking about not doing something while you at the same time know/believe that you actually should do it? This topic is not about just not wanting to do it (or I'm mistaken and has misread/misunderstood the OP). This is another topic altogether. I thought member Nyte wanted to share a feeling about salat, not laziness. Nyte is sharing a situation that many, many people fin themselves in, but cannot share with their fellow muslims because they'd end up being labelled sinful, weak and under the influence of shaytan. The human being has intuition, a heart, and all is not mechanics. The human being is connected. Member Nyte is not convinced about the salat and derives no genuine sense or feeling from it whether emotional, spiritual or logical. Member Nyte is on a journey of searching. Regardless of what salat is and how it is done, Nyte and everyone else need to go through their own journey of life. If we decide to dull ourselves and just follow the ancestors, we're out on very thin ice, at least according to the quran. Perhaps Nyte will reach a conclusion to do the traditional namaz-salat, full of conviction, emotion and benefit. Then so be it. But Nyte needs to find his/her way there on his/her own... and should not, for the mere sake of it, take someone else's word for it.
So I'm not sure where pleasing oneself enters the topic at hand. http//www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused004.gif
At least this is what I've gathered. I'm open to correction.
Peace and kind regards
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Salam brothers and sisters.
Thank all of you for giving your time to speak with me about this subject. I am actually quite happy with the responses! Though, I do want to clear some things up.
I am actually not trying to avoid prayer, nay. I am not too lazy to bow down to God's presence. It's actually the fulfillment of being in his presence does not drive me to do salat. Given I do pray still.
In an odd feeling, after reading the Quran, I felt the need for prayer last night. I believe that, yes, this is something I must figure out for myself, but if I received anything from this thread, is that one should not push salat until his soul is ready for it.
But please, do not misinterpret me as being lazy, apathetic and lethargic. It is not that at all. It is rather feeling the need for prayer when I am happy with everything God has provided. I feel happy and blessed. Through all this however, I believe that sometimes, I should say hello to "my Father" from time to time. It is the righteous thing to do.
So I'm not sure where pleasing oneself enters the topic at hand. http//www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused004.gif
Ahahaha. Indeed. I don't need any type of pleasing. I am quite content. It is rather to stay in God's Good Graces. Although He is the Most Forgiving, doesn't mean we should be abusing that. I always want to strive to please God in any situation I find myself in.
Thank you all.
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Peace Zulf.
Member nyte said I am supposed to do salat to give honor to God....
So I was trying to give another advice, that is the reason I commented on your advice.As far as I know this is not the reason why one does "salat". Hence I suggested studying Qoran and seeking sincere guidance .
GOD has no need for anything, we have needs. Qoran explains ,it is for our own good.
"Salat" has benefits to our soul and is a deterrent from "bad/sins..." Like being "GOD conscious" is also a deterrent.
I was not critical of your post brother Zulf.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Zulf.
Member nyte said I am supposed to do salat to give honor to God....
So I was trying to give another advice, that is the reason I commented on your advice.As far as I know this is not the reason why one does "salat". Hence I suggested studying Qoran and seeking sincere guidance .
GOD has no need for anything, we have needs. Qoran explains ,it is for our own good.
"Salat" has benefits to our soul and is a deterrent from "bad/sins..." Like being "GOD conscious" is also a deterrent.
I was not critical of your post brother Zulf.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Alright bro group handshake
Actually, I've been struggling myself with these feelings about salat/namaz. I lived many years in Pakistan, peacefully, but the society is very pro-conformity... so there is no room to deviate. Either you pray like everyone else, or you don't pray at all... but you definately don't change what people are used to.
To me, namaz, whether at home alone, or with people, or in the mosque, became just physical motions, and running through prescribed scripts of arabic word in the mind. I could never understand why the namaz was so important in the eyes of God. There was a clear cut case of blind following... just do it, without understanding. I know there are many intellectual benefits with the namaz (actual ones), but I don't think they have anything to do with namaz being something holy. They're rather like circumstantial, albeit real, benefits. In anycase, to me, namaz just became something you did out of a feel-good habit, and out of being accepted by people. I usually just wanted to get over with the motions of the namaz so that I could sit in peace, within myself, on the carpet, and do my own dua pr, for real. Namaz was not real to me anymore, while the dua afterwards was the actual connection to God. I had to be honest with myself, and this is what I felt.Bless you!
Peace! -
Namaz was not real to me anymore, while the dua afterwards was the actual connection to God. I had to be honest with myself, and this is what I felt.
I'd also agree this is my favorite part of prayer. It is not the repetitions but rather my one on one conversation with God. I might be at odds with the repetition rather than the prayer itself.
Mind you, I am no stranger to repetition. I was Roman Catholic before going on this path with my soul. rotfl
I always enjoy doing dua. When I was still a practicing Christian, my main repetition was "The Lord's Prayer" and whatever I felt after that. I never felt satisfied with just doing "The Lord's Prayer" and I felt the meat of my prayer was my ability to speak freely of my mind with God after that.
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Peace Zulf.
I used to be the opposite of what you described in your last post. I could not care less about any religion or prayer. I probably did not even give any thought to God or any of His scriptures.
Now I stand before my creator for my daily connection to Him and to feed my "soul".
Qoran 2130] Who would forsake " millata" Abraham, except one who fools his own soul?
I am certain ,for me, that "salat" is a gift from GOD to those who seek to connect to Him/ have a special relationship with the Lord.
Recall that Abraham said, "My Lord, make this a peaceful land, and protect me and my children from serving/worshiping idols. My Lord, they have misled so many people. As for those who follow me, they belong with me. As for those who disobey me, You are Forgiver, Most Merciful. Our Lord, I have settled part of my family in this plantless valley, at Your Sacred House. Our Lord,That they observe the Salat...
Our Lord, You know whatever we conceal and whatever we declare?nothing is hidden from God on earth, nor in the heavens. Praise be to God for granting me, despite my old age, Ismail and Isaac. My Lord answers the prayers. My Lord, make me one who consistently observes the Salat, and also my children. Our Lord, please answer my prayers." (1435-40)Because Abraham was appreciative of His Lord's blessings, He chose him and guided him in a straight path. We granted him happiness in this life, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous. Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the millat/religion of Abraham, the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper. (16120-123)
That path was followed by the children of Abraham, Moses, Jesus...etc.
And mention in the scripture Ismail. He was truthful when he made a promise, and he was a messenger prophet. He used to enjoin his family to observe the Salat and the Zakat; he was acceptable to his Lord. (1954-55)
We inspired Moses and his brother. "Maintain your homes in Egypt for the time being, turn your homes into synagogues, and maintain the Salat. Give good news to the believers.
She pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?" (The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of God. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet. He made me blessed wherever I go, and enjoined me to observe the Salat and the Zakat for as long as I live.
Let us not be of those who are loosing the "salat"
1959
After them, He substituted generations who lost the Salat, and pursued their lusts. They will suffer the consequences.GOD bless you.
Peace. -
In my discoveries the salat is the union style "keep-together of an assembly while zakat is the purifying work done in the same gathering in an assembly.
Question
How someone can fulfill the Salat obligation if he/she is alone* in the area where he/she live?
*e.g. The others choose to pray 5 times/day by using Sunni method.
Salm.
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I was under the impression that salat was the prayers given to God that was more or less ritualistic. The amount of people needed to perform salat is not important. I do wish there were a wider Quran Alone group near me, but there is just me and my wife, and my wife is more Sunni than anything else.
Besides the great debate of 2 or 3 (the Wusta debate) prayers a day, I would think that Fajr and Isha would be the most satisfactory, I could be corrected by those who has more experience in Quranic study.
I know there is pressure to pray a way different from those who do not carry the same mindset. The Mrs. did not appreciate at the beginning that I would omit the tashahud because I feel my prayers should be focused on justly me and God, as noted in (2014). As much respect I give to the Prophet Mohammed, it states
"I am God, there is no god but Me, so
serve Me and hold the contact prayer
for My remembrance."- Quran A Reformist Translation
Besides that point, you may perform salat yourself at times that is suggested in the Quran, which is solidly known amongst all communities as Fajr and Isha.
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Peace Nyte.
Here is the outcome of our service/worship practices(including salat, belief and good deeds...etc )
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The scales will be set on that day, equitably. Those whose weights are heavy will be the winners.79
As for those whose weights are light, they will be the ones who lost their souls,* as a consequence of disregarding our revelations, unjustly.The serving/worship of GOD alone is the "food" for our soul to grow (heavy) to be able to withstand the energy of GOD s presence on the day we meet Him. Day of resurrection.
"Salat" is part of that service/worship of GOD Alone .A connection to GOD to feed our spiritual self (soul).
Failing to heed our Creator leads to spiritual starvation and eventual ``loss'' of the soul.
We put ourselves with the winners or the losers that day. ,According to our own decisions/choices/deeds,,.
It is for our own good to observe "salat", GOD is doing us a favour with this gift. Also observing "salat" keeps us away from bad deeds...Providing our intention/sincerity is honest and we devote our service/worship to GOD Alone.
Look GOD does not need us
6;133
Your Lord is the Rich One; possessor of all mercy. If He wills, He can remove you, and substitute whomever He wills in your place, just as He produced you from the progeny of other people.Here is the key GOD ALONE, no partners in our "deen"
6161
Say, "My Lord has guided me in a straight path - the perfect deen of Abraham, monotheism. He never was an idol worshiper."6162
Say, "My Salat, my worship practices, my life and my death, are all devoted absolutely to God alone, the Lord of the universe.
[GOD s justice is fair. The choice is clear. GOD and His commands or other ( whatever one follows/does that is not from GOD/GOD s system)?
6164
Say, "Shall I seek other than God as a lord, when He is the Lord of all things? No soul benefits except from its own works, and none bears the burden of another. Ultimately, you return to your Lord, then He informs you regarding all your disputes."GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace JavaLatte,
Oneself is included. In that case just keep going on what God has taught you and refrain from slipping into conjecture and own wishful thinking. The salat thing is about sticking to the assembly which does not succumb to conjecture and stray ways.
It is not much to do really if you happen to be the only person in the world who understands. And if you are yourself you can still keep in unity with your Master even if it happens to be only you.
I would not worry too much about it. I understand if it is hard for you to "recruit" people to the command of God being in a hostile and unfriendly dogmatic and zealous community. But there are usually people who are questioning their ways everywhere. While I was in Iran I taught a man about the faith of God and his faith was strengthened. He has to keep his faith concealed not to throw his life to disaster, but he was still able to understand.
That was before I realized about salat, but it did not change too much.
God bless you
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Peace All.
Qoran is fully detalied, with no vagueness or contradiction? What requirement of the "deen" is missing? Our deen has been completed and perfected in the last scripture including "salat"
Qoran also tells us why we observe "Salat"?
The soul and Him who created it. Then showed it what is evil and what is good. Successful is one who redeems it. Failing is one who neglects it.Thr requirement of "salat" is clear
You shall recite what is revealed to you of the scripture, and observe the Salat, for the Salat prohibits evil and vice. But the remembrance of God (through Salat) is the most important objective. God knows everything you do.All that was asked of them was to serve/ worship God, devoting the religion absolutely to Him alone, observe the Salat, and give the Zakat. Such is the perfect deen.
Indeed, those who reverence the rites decreed by God demonstrate the righteousness of their hearts.
For those who still have doubts
And serve/ worship your Lord, in order to attain certainty.GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
Peace Jane.
GOD sends scriptures and messengers for our salvation.
How / Why/what /when/... are up to us to sort out. Also we need to sort out our priorities?
Yes, it is about what the GOD really wants and means ,not about what we want!"Salat" is a gift from GOD to help us towards our salvation
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You shall seek help through steadfastness and the Salat. This is difficult indeed, but not so for the reverent,246
who believe that they will meet their Lord; that to Him they ultimately return.231
Successful indeed are the believers;232
who are reverent during their Salat.Of course everyone is free to translate/understand it the way they want?
God bless you.
Peace. -
Welcome to the forum Nyte
alh is an obligation on those who believe that all commandments in the Quran are from God.
Whether one feels an inclination to perform ?lh or not is irrelevant to the applicability of the commandment.
It is a categorically stated fact that the remembrance of God induces a state of peacefulness in one's heart (132.
As such, it can safely be said that if one is not deriving a sense of contentment from ?lh, then the heart's devotion to God is deficient in some way.
Furthermore, one''s adoption of ?lh as a regular practice can be gradual and it need not be rushed.
In a nutshell, ?lh is an obligation that will render your heart peaceful and?if you feel uncomfortable performing it?then ease into it at your own pace.
I hope you don't find my tone dominating. I have tried to be objective while keeping in mind your experiences of ?lh.
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First of all, I would also like to apologize if I sound harsh here. I just wanted to put straight questions and remarks, and though they might even sound sarcastic, they're just plain questions... and a plain answer in the same style will do. I'm not after the poster; I'm just chewing the subject matter.
Whether one feels an inclination to perform ?lh or not is irrelevant to the applicability of the commandment.
It is a categorically stated fact that the remembrance of God induces a state of peacefulness in one's heart (132.
As such, it can safely be said that if one is not deriving a sense of contentment from ?lh, then the heart's devotion to God is deficient in some way.
And if the namaz doesn't induce such peacefulness, then is it the fault of the practitioner, or is perhaps the exercise not the actual salat?
Furthermore, this way of reasoning is often used by sects/cults to induce guilt an fear into their members to keep them in line. They're told they're not pure enough, not ready, not strong enough, don't have strong enough faith... and therefore they must give more money (or whatever the sacrifice is). It's plain old emotional blackmail.
Also, it is painfully apparent that salat (as in namaz) is NOT preventing evil and vice, and doesn't seem to induce peacefulness either... at least not more than practices of other religions. People backbite, lie and murder, then do the namaz, and then again go back to their evil works. Is it that the namaz didn't have an effect on them (due to their wickedness), or is it that the namaz isn't the salat? Wasn't salat supposed to prevent evil?
Furthermore, one''s adoption of ?lh as a regular practice can be gradual and it need not be rushed.
In a nutshell, ?lh is an obligation that will render your heart peaceful and?if you feel uncomfortable performing it?then ease into it at your own pace.
You mean to start with e.g. 1 times a day instead of 5? Sounds reasonable, but...
What about those who start noticing that the namaz is not getting you closer to God after having done it their whole life? Are they wicked because of this? Have they gone rouge? Have their hearts hardened? What if they have other ways of feeling very close to Allah? Has that no worth in comparison to doing the namaz?Peace and best regards.
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For me the big trouble with assalat, for not being "effective" , that is to give results, is not to understnd it as prayer or tht people are defective. Of course people are defective, they are always going to be, if people waited to be undefective they would never pray or do as-salat or do anything.
For me the problem is the collective feeling. And for those who have studied the matter as set in the Qur'an more than I, which is just about anybody here, I would like to ask them if it is stated clearly and as an obligation to do it collectively, always or as much as one can. Or is it the development of fiqh and a political "islam" what rendered it a collective duty like forming ranks to fight the oppresor.
I do not have anything against the collective aspect, provided the "collection" is adequately minded and goes in the same spirit, if not, it just like partaking in a show.
My feeling is that as-salat may be prayer or deep meditation, getting down to brass tacks of who and what one is and whose one is and what one owes to one's Rabb and God. That is praise the subject of one devotion, become conscious, for oneself, not for the public. I think anything that is not the deep introspection and devotion to Reality, to the really Existent, anything that pulls one into the worldly should be avoided. Rituals, if there are any should help to that concentration and not distract from it. And it must be sincere, however imperfect it maybe, sincere, inwards, not outwards. Otherwise we might be thinking of the fact that we are seen by the world.
I wonder in fact if masjids have not been turned in political centers where the masses can be manipulated at will, the herd kept in line. I know that historically they were centers of learning too. That would be an aspect, the other, then, like churches. The place where you get reprimanded by someone authorized to do so, when non egalitarian.
Salaam
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I think anything that is not the deep introspection and devotion to Reality, to the really Existent, anything that pulls one into the worldly should be avoided. Rituals, if there are any should help to that concentration and not distract from it. And it must be sincere, however imperfect it maybe, sincere, inwards, not outwards. Otherwise we might be thinking of the fact that we are seen by the world.
Namaz doesn't allow for the deep meditative introspection, because you have a script you must keep your mind on all the time. You must say the right words, do the right physical motions, the right number of times... and for this your brain must remain in the beta-wave frequency. Also, we cannot say that we'll end up getting so good at it that we no longer have to think about the movements. It doesn't work that way. Yes, we can go through one set of motion, like one bow, or one gear shifting in the car, or one tooth brush session, without thinking... but this works only because there is no counting required. When you totally lose yourself doing something, when you get into flow, then the time aspect disappears from your awareness, and hence you won't be able to keep track of how many times you've done something. Also, if you're in a group, you'll definitely not be able to keep up with the pace if your in a deep meditative flow. In a group, part of your mind is always on the other group members and the leader, or else people wouldn't be able to do the motions synchronically.
Additionally, I personally believe that most people are conscious about how they look during the group prayer, to some extent at least. This is because there are such strict regulations on how to hold your hands, how to bend the body, how to hold and move the index finger, how to fold the feet, how to move the head.. etc. Nobody wants to deviate from the group. This is an extremely powerful motivator for our survival brain. We'd rather die than be excommunicated (or so the survival brain feels at least). So when being conscious about this, there won't being deep state of contemplation for sure. But of course, you can get really good at the correct form, making it a habit, but I'm sure most people still have part of their mind checking it now and then. And unfortunately, I don't think people really are concerned with what Allah thinks about the physical form of their namaz, but rather they're concerned about what their fellow namaz doers would see.
At best you can execute some thoughts of genuine gratitude during the namaz, but other than that... it's mostly role play.
I think we generally need to think more about the purpose of the salat, and what effects it is supposed to have, and not get caught up in assumptions about it's form. Form is not the essence... outcome is the essence.
Peace and best regards