Why do you beleive the Quran to be the Word of GOD?
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Peace, hawk99.
Where I live the sun rises between the dwellings and sets in the park. Brother Ahmed Bilal, if you are looking for
guidance it is in Quran, if you are looking for errors (excuses) you will find them too!This is actually EXACTLY what I was talking about! As I mentioned previously, I personally DO believe that the Qur'aan is the Word of ALLAH (God). However, many others don't. And, even when it comes to those who do, they generally only accept the Qur'aan as being authentic due to
- It supporting their preexistent beliefs, usually stemming from beliefs they maintained in Judaism and/or Christianity.
- Supposed scientific "miracles" being contained in the text.
- An alleged "miracle" of '19' (as proposed by Dr. Rashad Khalifa), insisting that the Qur'aan contains a 'code' for the believers.
- Their Islamic (whether traditional or otherwise) upbringing, generally due to parental influence or geographical location.
- Their belief that Muhammad was the "Lord of the Prophets" (as stated by ahadiyth) and that they must comply with whatever he said.
There are a few other reasons as well, but those are usually the ones I come across.
The problems with these perspectives are various, and they usually don't stem from the actual Qur'aan at all. For example
- The Qur'aan, contrary to popular opinion, does not support or authenticate Judaism or Christianity at all.
- The supposed scientific "miracles" in the Qur'aan are usually very questionable, and they're typically generated by people 'picking and choosing' which words support their arguments and preconceived notions concerning specific ideas. In reality, the Qur'aan contains many statements that others view as being scientific fallacies.
- The "code 19" is often used to support an ideal similar to numerology, rather than supporting the actual text and ideology promoted in the Qur'aan. (NOTE It wasn't always this way, but this is ultimately what it's turned into in the modern "Submitters" organization, particularly after the death of Dr. Khalifa.)
- Upbringing and geographical location have nothing to do with what the Qur'aan says.
- The idea of Muhammad being the "Lord of the Prophets" is never conveyed in the Qur'aan, nor are the hadiyths promoted (or even supported) in the actual text of the Book.
The skeptics are oftentimes closer to the Truth of the Qur'aan than many of the believers are!
Again, I'm not trying to 'disprove' the Qur'aan in any way. In fact, I'm an avid supporter of it. We just need to be aware of why we're choosing to turn to the Qur'aan as a form of Divine guidance, as well as what we're actually taking (e.g. applying) from it. Otherwise, we're like 'donkeys carrying a load of books'! ALLAH guides whom He chooses to a straight path.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace brother Ahmad Bilal,
Glad to see your faith return. And that you keep your critical approach to interpretation.
God bless you
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Peace Ahmed Bilal.
Thank you for your clarification.
I also agree.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Ahmad Bilal,
Being cautious about practices and beliefs that you consider to be "outside"of what the Sustainer has prescribed
for us, is a good approach. Also, the status of others, who you consider astray, is nothing new and will remain
a part of everyday life.God bless
peace
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Peace, Man of Faith.
Glad to see your faith return. And that you keep your critical approach to interpretation.
Thank you, sir! It's been a long journey for me, and I feel like I'm right where I need to be. ALLAH guides who He chooses to a straight path, and I just hope that He continues to guide me on my journey.
Of course, there's always the chance that I'm "led astray" right now too - ALLAH knows best. We're all works in progress.
Peace to you, brother.
Ahmad
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Peace brother Ahmad,
It is good that you have always been critical in your approach to "religion". I would urge you to mostly be suspicious of what people say though and their interpretation of things and do not doubt the ancient Arabic of the so-called Quran (too much).
But, do always remain on your guard despite the exceptional clarity of that recitation of alleged Muhammad which was written down/reorded on parchment (or similar) because some people seem to, when they put it together, to have inserted verse numbering and other things such as diacritical marks. And there may be insertions of words or perhaps even an extra marker with a pen to add a letter to a word etc too because I have got that feeling. In some instances the numbers are causing to split a clause into two even if it belongs to its parent clause I have noticed while learning Arabic.
Just that about verse numbering etc is a sign that it was not the physical book that God promised to protect but the actual decree.
Despite your lack of faith you seemed to never lose your faith completely because you had doubts. I understand that the pathetic impression by those who advocate traditionalism cause you think God is just an invented phenomenon. I would unlearn what you have learned and then just reflect upon existence and perhaps distance yourself from the Quran you know and regard all interpretations available with suspicion.
When I did so I realized Quran is not a book full of rules at all but does not teach much at all but is merely a relief to people that God is really for real. If people know the famous ten commandments and socalled law of Moses, torah/instruction and some inspiration by the works of Jesus then they know what needs to be known and no hocus pocus. And have faith and be a good person.
God bless you
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Peace, hawk99.
Being cautious about practices and beliefs that you consider to be "outside"of what the Sustainer has prescribed
for us, is a good approach. Also, the status of others, who you consider astray, is nothing new and will remain
a part of everyday life.Agreed... However, throughout the course of time, I've noticed that many of us tend to be very skeptical when it comes to everyone's religious beliefs and practices except our own. The Qur'aan instructs us many times to use knowledge and reason to determine the Truth of any ideological ideals, including the ones outlined in the Book itself. In fact, it even insists (implicitly) that, although the Qur'aan guides some people to ALLAH, it also guides some people away from Him. That's why it's important for us to maintain a degree of skepticism (e.g. caution, or even doubt) concerning what we read and study, especially in connection to the modern ideology of "Islam".
"And if you obey most of those on the Earth, they will lead you away from the path of ALLAH. That is because they follow conjecture, and they only guess (or speculate)."
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Ahmad,
We have to accept the practices of faith of others, but we can still inform them of what is right if we know better. There is nothing wrong in it. It seems as if messengers of old did so too.
But we should do no more than inform them then we must be peaceful to them and behave in the best manner and stand by our faith. There is no need to force people to adhere to your ways as long as it is not to force them to stop oppression and mischief.
I think native Americans (Indians), for example, have faith in God but they divide the entity that is God into different spirits. I think they regard nature to be God, which is in fact true in a way. Their practice does not neccessarily have to be shirk.
We have to learn to understand others.
God bless you
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I think native Americans (Indians), for example, have faith in God but they divide the entity that is God into different spirits.
Bold But, whether this act is correct?
Do they really have faith in God?
Looks like they're choosing particular animal as patron/secret helper?
I think they regard nature to be God, which is in fact true in a way.
True in a way? Would you kindly explain, brother?
Their practice does not neccessarily have to be shirk.
How about their habit using small objects which they consider special, such as carrying "amulet" to provide good fortune and to protect from harm?
Thank you.
Salm.
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Peace JavaLatte,
How about their habit using small objects which they consider special, such as carrying "amulet" to provide good fortune and to protect from harm?
That is shirk, but is Muhammad not shirk too or the falsehood circulating around him? They are no better or worse than the other.
True in a way? Would you kindly explain, brother?
Because the animals and nature are closer to God than we are. And they do not really possess any free will or consciousness as we do so they are in closer bond with the energy that is God.
I admire Indians respect for nature and the system of life and their often calm nature, but surely there are hypocrites everywhere. You have probably seen much bad reputation about Indian faith as violent and vile but it is not all tribes.
Do they really have faith in God?
They are often "harmonized" in ways, and they tend to see that the animals can be exquisite channels towards God (they do not believe in God the way the monotheist Ibrahimic faiths do but they see God as a spirit among evil spirits) because of the power of the soul. They think a bit weird to an external viewer, but it may not be so "shirky" and I took the opportunity to study the phenomenon once while I could speak to a contact who knew much about Indian faith.
God bless you
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Peace, Man of Faith.
When I did so I realized Quran is not a book full of rules at all but does not teach much at all but is merely a relief to people that God is really for real. If people know the famous ten commandments and socalled law of Moses, torah/instruction and some inspiration by the works of Jesus then they know what needs to be known and no hocus pocus. And have faith and be a good person.
I agree with you to a large degree... However, I actually do believe that the Qur'aan teaches us many things. In fact, interestingly enough, I learn something new every time I read the Qur'aan! My problem was in HOW I was reading the Qur'aan. Over the course of time, I've come to understand that
- The Qur'aan is not a science book.
- The Qur'aan is not a philosophical anomaly.
- The Qur'aan is not a staple for Judaism and Christianity, and it does not "confirm" the Bible.
In fact, from my understanding, the "Tauraat" mentioned in the Qur'aan is NOT the Pentateuch (first five books of Moses), and the "Injeel" is NOT the Biblical gospels and so-called 'new testament' writings of Saul (e.g. Paul) of Tarsus. Understanding, whether correct or incorrect, is what led me to perceive the Qur'aan differently and begin reading it from a different point of view.
In this day and time, I don't think those "10 commandments" were actually authored by ALLAH (God), at least not in that fashion; and I don't think all of the Biblical stories and characterizations of Jesus in the four Biblical gospels are entirely accurate either. The Qur'aan greatly simplifies the concept of "peaceful submission" (or however else people choose to define 'islam' by saying that the general requirements for happiness and 'salvation' are for people to
- Believe in, or acknowledge, one Supreme Being, generally recognized as ALLAH in the Qur'aan;
- Believe in the "last day", or recognize that justice will be served to everyone equitably, whether good or bad; and
- Live righteous, peaceful and productive lives, generally in the pursuit of helping others.
Everything else is just commentary - elaboration on the points mentioned above.
Peace,
Ahmad
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I think Quran and all of the Books were the inspired word of God, meaning that the words were filtered through humans. This does not mean they are any less sacred. ALLAH/God is infinitely more radiant than what can be contained in the word that took many years to compile. The Book did not just fall out of the sky. His word needed to be comprehended by humanity, finite beings. Additionally, Quran states that it is 'a guidance', indicating that it is not the 'only guidance', in my humble opinion. This does not diminish its sacred relevance to humanity. I have a problem when some people read into Quran to assert that Islam is exclusive...A merciful and compassionate Allah, which is written at the heading of all but one or two Surrah, would never will his creation to experience eternal hellfire. Human will is not stronger than the will of Allah. Human frailties will never thwart the will of Allah for universal salvation of humanity. That would mean Shaitan has more power than Allah, let it never be so, to corrupt Allah's creation and claim them from Allah. Allah created the world and saw that it was good...and humanity is part of this world. Would a merciful and loving Allah hand over part of His creation to Shaitan for eternal punishment? No, because Allah is not a liar. Allah created the world and saw that it was good...Allah did not see that in was partially good. And so, I think interpretations of ayah have been corrupted. And most importantly, Allah is bigger than the Book. When we confine our knowledge of Allah to the Book, we ultimately commit idolatry and spiritual adultery.
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Peace,
And most importantly, Allah is bigger than the Book. When we confine our knowledge of Allah to the Book, we ultimately commit idolatry and spiritual adultery.
I see someone has understood something important. bravo
Have faith
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Peace, Nazrani.
I think Quran and all of the Books were the inspired word of God, meaning that the words were filtered through humans. This does not mean they are any less sacred.
If all of the books were inspired by God but filtered through humans, then how can any of them be held "sacred"? Doesn't this defeat the purpose of an "inspired" work? More specifically, if these people (e.g. prophets, messengers, scribes, exc.) received a specific inspiration from God, or at least what they believed to have come from God, but they interpreted and wrote these words according to their personal understandings and ideas, then how can these books be said to come from God at all?
I have a problem when some people read into Quran to assert that Islam is exclusive...
Actually, according to the Qur'aan, Islam (or submission to God) is the least "exclusive" of all of the predominant ideologies of time. The Qur'aan ultimately claims that anyone who (a) believes in one Divinity, (b) believes in a final day of judgment, and (3) practices righteousness earns a reward with God, being considered among the "muslimoon"/submitters. I haven't seen any other theological, monotheistic ideologies propose this idea, especially during the time in which the Qur'aan was written.
A merciful and compassionate Allah, which is written at the heading of all but one or two Surrah, would never will his creation to experience eternal hellfire.
That depends entirely on the perspective of the individual. It's best not to say things about ALLAH (God) unless we absolutely know them to be true and accurate. We can make our own interpretations of what God will do in the future, but we ultimately don't know. Some of His works and pronouncements are beyond our comprehension.
Allah created the world and saw that it was good...Allah did not see that in was partially good.
Where does the book say that ALLAH proclaimed the world to be "good"?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Actually, according to the Qur'aan, Islam (or submission to God) is the least "exclusive" of all of the predominant ideologies of time. The Qur'aan ultimately claims that anyone who (a) believes in one Divinity, (b) believes in a final day of judgment, and (3) practices righteousness earns a reward with God, being considered among the "muslimoon"/submitters. I haven't seen any other theological, monotheistic ideologies propose this idea, especially during the time in which the Qur'aan was written.
Peace Ahmad Bilal,
One of my initial attractions to Islam was it's inclusiveness as per Quran regardless of sectarian ideologies.
My question to you is as follows Previously you attributed the pejorative "Blind Faith" to others, and you now
claim to submit to the lord of the worlds yourself, Is your faith "blind" or is your arrival to faith based on
something else?God bless
peace
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I think that the ability of people to deluede themselves is great. But also I think that the ability of people to "see" goes well beyond her ability to be conscious of what they do "see". Not everything one knows can be explained in a reasonable way, because probably, we are not capable of having all our experience remembered or recanted by merely wishing it. When we write we may know what we are going to say and why, but to explain it to somebody else in written form we must retrace many, many things, and reserarch things that we do know, but that we forgot how we ame to know.
So what others might call "blind faith", because we do not give an autmatic comprehensive answer, may be perfectly grounded on experience and real knowledge. It is our own effort at honesty to ourselves, to not give in to the temptation of disregarding those nagging things at the back of our minds, which may give us certainty.
As far as I am concerned, I think that nothing is a better seer than faith. I may have been called gut-feeling.
Salaam
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Peace, hawk99.
Previously you attributed the pejorative "Blind Faith" to others, and you now
claim to submit to the lord of the worlds yourself, Is your faith "blind" or is your arrival to faith based on
something else?Actually, I certainly view it as being something else - namely (scientific) investigation and understanding. My former opposition to the concept of divinity wasn't based on the rejection of ALLAH (God), but on the rejection of the sectarian view of Him. Being a former student of Wahhabi (Salafi) Islam, I held a view of ALLAH existing as, for all practical purposes, an 'invisible man in the sky'. That's what I ultimately rejected, and I still reject it today. My perception of ALLAH today is quite different I tend to see Him as being all-encompassing, not much different from the pantheistic model of God.
The Qur'aan states that people will "see" ALLAH on the day of judgment, and my view, in accordance with the Salafi viewpoint, was that ALLAH is a gigantic physical Being with eyes, hands, a face, a back, etc. Even though I rejected their doctrine, I still upheld certain concepts taught by them that I felt were compatible with the Qur'aan. Over time, however, I came to feel that this depiction of ALLAH as a gigantic, anthropomorphic 'sky man' was erroneous, and I felt that it was totally illogical to hold onto a position like that.
Today, I still believe that the righteous will "see" ALLAH on the day of judgment, and they can even "see" Him right now. However, they won't see Him in the sense of viewing some large anthropomorphic figure sitting on a throne, from my understanding. Rather, they will "see" Him in the sense that they will recognize Him in everything. The concept of "seeing" is often used as a synonym for understanding, and this occurs even in the Qur'aan, which is why ignorant people (who reject God) are referred to as being "blind".
I don't see myself as being a "blind believer" today because I see ALLAH everywhere. I see His presence as being all-encompassing, and I see the Qur'aan as being a tool (by no means do I see it as the only tool) to allow other people to "see" Him too. So, to me, God is real - He's just not what I previously imagined Him to be.
Peace,
Ahmad
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I voted other because it was more kind of an emotional event. For me the weight of rational, scientific compatibility and the absence of contradiction does not weigh up against epiphanic shock it caused when I started studying it. I do not deny the other options, they certainly offered me peace on a rational level. But the peace of heart that sparked my belief so to say was 90% an emotional process.
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Harmony be upon you brother Ahmad,
I came to feel that this depiction of ALLAH as a gigantic, anthropomorphic 'sky man' was erroneous
First I would like to thank you for giving me a big laugh that lifted my mood for hours ahead. That "sky man" definition was so funny I could not stop laughing sporadically for a while. I imagined to myself some satire of super man or something. Secondly, I agree with your explanation about how sectarian people define God. I think I earlier tried to raise your awareness that the truth was not like you used to think and God not a "grumpy old bearded man".
I tend to see Him as being all-encompassing, not much different from the pantheistic model of God.
This is the correct definition of what God is, encompassing all things. So much encompassing everything that God is not a thing you can see and why God "said" to Moses that if you can see this mountain shaking then you can see me. Same if you raise your hand to eye-level and behold it then you have also seen God, even if the shaking mountain was more manifest ;D. And look left or right, up or down or look behind you there is God.
Today, I still believe that the righteous will "see" ALLAH on the day of judgment, and they can even "see" Him right now. However, they won't see Him in the sense of viewing some large anthropomorphic figure sitting on a throne, from my understanding.
God will become entirely manifest to these people constantly when that day comes and God is no longer testing them. It will no longer be like talking to someone who is not seemingly replying and thus like a monolog. Despite not being able to literally see God they can feel and hear God within their mind.
The concept of "seeing" is often used as a synonym for understanding, and this occurs even in the Qur'aan
If you follow the text too literally then God has eyes and hands. Obviously one should never take it too literally.
I don't see myself as being a "blind believer" today because I see ALLAH everywhere.
I am really happy for your sake.
Be whole