DECODING AYYAME MA'DUDAT
-
Peace Brother Wakas
I have not come across in the Quran any act other than the Saum and Hajj which is time bounded. We have directives in the Quran for Saum, Hajj, Marriage, Divorce, Inheritance, Charity, War, Trade, Loans, Zina, Fahash etc. but out of these only Saum and Hajj are time bound. After a meticulous study of Quran for years I came to the conclusion that the individual is the decider of the maximum days stay during Hajj and maximum days of fasting during Ramadhan.
Quote from Wakas
Note that "whoever enjoyed in the visit to the HaJJ" implies the period for HaJJ is longer than 3 days, because one is in a position to determine enjoyment/benefit from being there and thereafter undergo abstinence for 3 days during the HaJJ.
The minimum days are determined by Allah which is two days and the actual Hajj is more than three days which is decided by the individual and the same formula applies to fasting.
Thanks
-
Thank you @hafeez kazi very much for the article.
By the way, as I understand it, even if one is fasting during the whole month of Ramadan, one is allowed to drink water and eat between the sunset and the first light of dawn (approximately 230 pm now). So it isn't compete starvation and being without water, I find it is not too difficult to fast the whole month.
Peace
-
Peace Brother GOdsubmitter
The subject was not starvation or eating and drinking from sunset to dawn but the Counted/fixed/specified days. Fasting is not starvation but what I posted was an article from the internet which shows that human being can survive without food and water for at least 4 days, therefore in that context the believers should not have any difficulty even if they are fasting in the Greenland (21 Hrs.fasting) for two days. It is the days which are most important because Ayyame Ma'dudat in itself is inconclusive and there is no unanimous interpretation of Ayyame Ma'dudat whether it is fasting for three days or ten days or the whole month of Ramadhan (29 or 30 days). same is the case with the remembrance/glorifying Allah during hajj. We have one month of Ramadhan so we are fasting the whole month but what about the Hajj of which the duration period is four months, so how many days one has to stay at the place of Hajj and how many days he should remember/glorify Allah. That was the question which was disturbing me for the last so many years. In past I observed my fast believing it to be the whole month of Ramadhan but now I have changed my belief and I have determined to fast the whole month after taking into consideration my health, my environment, my working conditions and the length of the day and it exceeds the determined period of Allah which is TWO DAYS.
The minimum days of fasting according to Allah is TWO DAYS and the maximum is left upon the believers to decide. Fasting has to be observed only in the moth of Ramadhan because fasting is prescribed during Ramadhan only and not in other months.
Thanks
-
Thank you hafeez kazi for your study. It is indeed noticeable that instead of saying a whole month or an exact number of days it should say a number of days that includes a variety of days.
I am not sure about that it should be in Ramadan, if by Ramadan we understand the lunar month such as it is going on now in the hijra calendar. In fact, I might doubt the faithfulness of the present calendar to the calendars that were in usage in past times. We know how off the birth of christ might be for instance if the same calendar had been kept from the time it is purported to be.
I find that when we have to rely on "history" to fix our behaviour we are on moving ground and I have come to disregard as useless the explanations of the meaning of the Qur'an as explanations based on the purpported events that gave rise to the revelations in it. Because although the Qur'an aludes to events that were happening, the historical identification of those events does not add anything nor detracts anything from the meaning of the Qur'an, but rather biases it.
So for me, the hard nut that remains about the fasting is the timing of the year and right now I tend to feel that the time must be around the equinoxes, and if ramadan has anything to do with scorching heat it might even be different time of the year.
Thanks again to all tht have studied and reported on the question of the ayaam ma3dudaat.
Salaam
-
Very interesting thread, brother hafeez kazi.
Thank you for sharing!
DECODING AYYAME MA?DUDAT
On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith." 2286
In the context of Fasting the above statement may not be true because fasting for one month in Ramadhan may be easy for some but difficult for others and it depends upon the timing of the fast, the health of him who fasts, the environment in which he is living and the type of work he is doing. So fasting one month continuously in Ramadhan may be an easy burden for some to bear and at the same it may be very difficult for others to bear, therefore commanding all the believers to fast one month without considering the health of the believers, the timings of the fast, environment, working conditions, is as good as enforcing the will of Allah on His believers without mercy. Such unmerciful command is not expected from Allah who is the most Merciful. In my opinion fasting a full month of Ramadhan is not mandatory for the believers but AYYAME MA?DUDAT. If fasting is not for one month then how many days, and what is AYYAME MA?DUDAT?
LIKE. http//3.bp.blogspot.com/--h4eLCX9klE/UZHjEBYfY2I/AAAAAAAADoo/W5bcUQjtXls/s1600/thumb-up-facebook-emoticon-like-symbol.png
DISCLAIMER This is my understanding of AYYAME MA?DUDAT, as of today, and none should accept, follow without critical and thorough scrutinizing.
OK!!
Salm.
-
Salaam,
Thank you Hafeez Kazi for sharing your understanding.
I agree with many points made by huruf.
If days of fasting are specific days then it would have mentioned as in 589 .
Or if it is 10 then also it is mentioned as in 2196 .
There are no specific days to fast, so it is said ayyaman-ma3doodaatin.
Please click here to see my understanding on ayyaaman-ma3doodaatin.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Salam alaykum
I heard the word Ayyaman/ayyam is used only for the numbers between 3 to 10. For the rest of the numbers, the word yaum is used.
for example, salasathu ayyam, arbaathu ayyam,......... ashrathu ayyam. But after it, ahada ashra yaum ?Those who know language and grammer pls clarify.
salam.
-
Peace Brother mmkhan
I appreciate your efforts in trying to interpret Quran other than the way of the traditional.
I have read your Ramadhan Fasting article but found something missing and a little bit of misunderstanding the Arabic verses.
Please do not take it as an insult or offense because it is minor error of misjudgment.
You claim that fasting is to abstain from speech whereas I do not accept this interpretation. You erred while reading the whole verse.and missed the important word. Let me explain you.
Allowed unto you, on the night of fasts, is consorting with your women. they are a garment unto you, and ye are a garment unto them. Allah knoweth that ye have been defrauding yourselves, so He hath relented toward you and pardoned you. Wherefore now copulate with them, and seek that which Allah hath prescribed for you, and eat and drink, UNTIL the white thread becometh manifest unto you from the black thread of the dawn; thereafter complete the fast till night fall. And copulate not with them While ye are retreating in the mosques. These are the bounds of Allah, wherefore approach them not. Thus Allah expounds all His signs unto mankind that haply they may fear Him. 2187
You missed the word UNTIL. After eat and drink there is no full stop but continuation of the verse and the subject eat and drink is up to dawn or whatever it is. There is continuation of eating and drinking but a pause is applied by UNTIL which is up to dawn
Examples of UNTIL
- We played until it got dark. (they stopped playing until it got dark)
- Keep going until I tell you to stop. (he kept going until he told him to stop)
- I ran until I was breathless. (he ran until he was breathless)
- Stay here until the danger has passed. (he stayed there until danger had passed)
- Stir the dough until it forms a ball. (she stirred dough until it formed a ball)
We shall show them Our portents on the horizons and within themselves until it will be manifest unto them that it is the Truth. Doth not thy Lord suffice, since He is Witness over all things? when you said, "O Moses, we will never believe you until we see Allah outright"; so the thunderbolt took you while you were looking on. (2 55)
The people never said that "we will never believe you for ever but UNTIL they see Allah. Until in the verse is a continuation of the subject.
Your second understanding regarding SHAHR as Moon. I cannot comment anything on this subject but the Quranic verses negates this understanding
The Night of Power is better than a thousand MOONS. 973
There is only one moon
A sacred MOON is for a sacred MOON; these sacrednesses are in retaliation. Whosoever then offereth violence unto you, Offer violence unto him the like of his violence unto you, and fear Allah, and know that Allah is with the God-fearing 2194
The MOON of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful
There are many SHAHR verses but not a single one means MOON in the Quran.
WITNESSING THE MONTH
You are right that no one can witness the month because witness is always for the past and not future.
But again here SHAHID does not always mean WITNESS but PRESENT also
http//i.snag.gy/sa2wH.jpg
And indeed, there is among you he who lingers behind; and if disaster strikes you, he says, "Allah has favored me in that I was not present with them." 472
So whoever among you (is) present (during the) month of Ramadhan should fast it.
Please correct me if erred.
Thanks
-
So whoever among you (is) present (during the) month of Ramadhan should fast it.
Peace!
Interesting. This gives a whole different feel and color to it all.
But what would this mean in practice? What does it mean to be present in/during a month? Is it a physical presence at a locale? I only see reference to time in the verse, not location.
Kind regards
Peace -
Peace Sabeel Ameer
I thank you very much for your important information about AYYAM. I read the verse hundred times and researched on every word but somehow skipped to research on YAUM AND AYYAM. I checked all the numbers in the Quran and found that from three to ten Allah has used the plural of days, nights, months and years while above ten Allah has used the singular day, night , month and year
This researched has confirmed that AYYAM means three to ten.
This successful research has confirmed that the minimum days of fasting in the month of Ramadhan determined by Allah is TWO and the maximum is three to ten determined by the individual and 100% not more than 10. Similarly praising Allah during hajj is minimum TWO DAYS which is determined by Allah and the maximum is three to ten days determined by the pilgrim and 100% not more than 10.
this has further strengthened my belief that Quran is not ambiguous and neither it is incomplete. the only thing needed is the right approach with clear intention.
Brother Sabeel I am indebted to you because of your important information which ultimately gave a finishing point to the subject and made the subject more unambiguous and perfect.
Allah said "Therefore will the land be out of their reach for forty years In distraction will they wander through the land But sorrow thou not over these rebellious people. 526
(Joseph) said "For seven years shall ye diligently sow as is your wont and the harvests that ye reap, ye shall leave them in the ear,- except a little, of which ye shall eat. 1247
May Allah bless you
Thanks
-
Peace Zulf
So whoever among you (is) present (during the) month of Ramadhan should fast it.
I researched on the above and my understanding is as follows
O you who have believed, decreed upon you is fasting as it was decreed upon those before you that you may become righteous 2183
Fasting is decreed to the believers but the directives are not revealed therefore this verse was revealed before the beginning of the month of Ramadhan
a limited number of days. So whoever among you is ill or on a journey then an equal number of days . And upon those who are able - a ransom of feeding a poor person . And whoever volunteers excess - it is better for him. But to fast is best for you, if you only knew 2184
This verse is also revealed before Ramadhan
Not everyone can postpone the fast but only those among the believers who are sick or on journey
The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever among you (is) present (during the) month of Ramadhan let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful 2185
Not everyone should fast but only those among the believers who witnesses the month
In both the verses So whoever among you is mentioned therefore by logic the only sick and journeying person can postpone the fasting and likewise those who have witnessed the month should fast and those who have not witnessed the month should not fast.
This understanding which is in perfect harmony with the verses raises a question which is baffling and has no satisfactory answer. Allah prescribed the FASTING on every believer as was prescribed to the previous communities but subsequently made it mandatory for only those who witness the month. It means that those who are alive and who can witness the month should fast and those who are dead cannot witness the month should not fast. This is ridiculous understanding. Why not a straight command to fast during the month of Ramadhan
But is it possible to witness a month which is a future occurrence?
Those who have read the Quran meticulously must have come across many verses which were revealed and meant for those people who were present with the Prophet Muhammad during his tenure of life, for example 3356 (the alleged darood) was revealed in that context, 2104,108 191,196, 459, 511,101. 820, 95,28,38.
Verse 2183 was not revealed during Ramadhan but before Ramadhan therefore it was said to the believers that those among you who (remain alive) and present during Ramadhan month should abstain in it.
There are some verses revealed to those believers but are indirectly addressed to us.
Allah knows that ye have been defrauding yourselves, so He hath relented toward you and pardoned you
Did Allah pardon us? (Today?s Muslim)? Did we deceive ourselves on the night of the fast? No, it was those people to whom this verse was revealed but subsequently the other message of this verse was indirectly meant for all the believers.
Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives
Permitted to approach the wives is made lawful for all the believers during the night of the fast but it was revealed to those believers who were present with the messenger during his tenure of life
WHOEVER IS PRESENT DURING THE MONTH OF RAMADHAN SHOULD FAST IN IT has no concern with today's believer.
Thanks
-
Peace,
i am glad i could help.
And i've heard that the sunni scholars view is that the 'ayyaman maududat' in 2203 is 3 days. Please confirm it. Some quran only scholars also says it.
In 2203, its said that there is no sin upon if you only do 2 days, ie if you didnt complete the 'ayyaman maududat' which only starts at 3 ( ?? )2 days is Yaumayni, not Ayyam or Yaum. So Ayyaman cannot be said for 2 days.
Salam alaykum.
-
Peace brother Sabeel
Thanks once again for your help.
With the help of your information I scanned all the verses which contained numerals and found that from three to ten all words (day, night, month, year, man, heaven, star) are in plural and from eleven onwards all are in singular. It is confirmed that AYYAME MADUDAT is determined three to ten days. While fasting one has to decide how many days he will fast based on his survey of health etc but it should be between three to ten. During the pilgrimage this rule is very much in force but Allah due to His mercy has reduced the Ayyame Maduduat as a mimnimum of two days considering the hardship men face due to exhaustive journey. Otherwise it is three to ten days of remembering/praising Allah during Hajj and unfortunately this important directive of the Hajj is missing from the schedule of the pilgrims.
Thanks
-
peace hk,
I thank you very much for your important information about AYYAM. I read the verse hundred times and researched on every word but somehow skipped to research on YAUM AND AYYAM. I checked all the numbers in the Quran and found that from three to ten Allah has used the plural of days, nights, months and years while above ten Allah has used the singular day, night , month and year
The count of the shuhur with God is twelve shahran...
?
-
Peace Brother GOdsubmitter
The subject was not starvation or eating and drinking from sunset to dawn but the Counted/fixed/specified days. Fasting is not starvation but what I posted was an article from the internet which shows that human being can survive without food and water for at least 4 days, therefore in that context the believers should not have any difficulty even if they are fasting in the Greenland (21 Hrs.fasting) for two days. It is the days which are most important because Ayyame Ma'dudat in itself is inconclusive and there is no unanimous interpretation of Ayyame Ma'dudat whether it is fasting for three days or ten days or the whole month of Ramadhan (29 or 30 days). same is the case with the remembrance/glorifying Allah during hajj. We have one month of Ramadhan so we are fasting the whole month but what about the Hajj of which the duration period is four months, so how many days one has to stay at the place of Hajj and how many days he should remember/glorify Allah. That was the question which was disturbing me for the last so many years. In past I observed my fast believing it to be the whole month of Ramadhan but now I have changed my belief and I have determined to fast the whole month after taking into consideration my health, my environment, my working conditions and the length of the day and it exceeds the determined period of Allah which is TWO DAYS.
The minimum days of fasting according to Allah is TWO DAYS and the maximum is left upon the believers to decide. Fasting has to be observed only in the moth of Ramadhan because fasting is prescribed during Ramadhan only and not in other months.
Thanks
Thank you so much for clarification.
I appreciate your studies.
I just fast the whole month as it is written in the Qur'an translation, and I do not intend to do Hajj to Saudi Arabia at all, that place is a caricature of Qur'an.Peace
-
The count of the shuhur with God is twelve shahran...
1 month = shahrun wahid, 2 months = shahrayni (ithnani?)
3 months = salasathu ashhur, 4 months = arabaathu ashhur ...........etc to 10 months.'
After 10, word shahran is used again.
11 months = ahda ashara shahran, 12 months = ithna ashara shahran -
I saw using sithathi shuhoor for 6 months. So shuhoor and ashhur, both can be used as plural ??
shuhur is plural, so 3 to 10 plural is used. But for 11 and 12, singular is used. so 12 shahran. -
Peace. Thank you all for the very interesting information within this thread! Just a tiny remark
So whoever among you (is) present (during the) month of Ramadhan should fast it.
Please correct me if erred.
"Schahida" is past tense. Hence it is "So whoever among you witnessed the "shahr" should fast it." Does this change your view concerning witnessing/ being present? If I was present in the month, I should fast the month by going back to the past or how does it work?
-
Peace Timur.
Thanks for your remark. It helped me greatly in my own understanding of the passages in question. I interpret faman and mariz and safar and the rest to be a part of the same sentence and not having the right interpretation as sick and on a trip. It does not make any sense to me particularly about on travel.
Now I think if you have witnessed and believe in the guidance then you are ones that do the prescribed thing of 2183 and onwards to redeem your sins.
I hope it soon will break the myth here.
God bless you
-
Now I think if you have witnessed and believe in the guidance then you are ones that do the prescribed thing of 2183 and onwards to redeem your sins.
Peace bro
Wouldn't it go without saying that if you read the quran, you most probably believe in it, and hence would follow it's instructions?
It would be unnecessary for the quran to need to say something like "if you believe in this guidance, then do this... otherwise don't". Obviously, those who don't believe in it, won't do it.. even if they read the book. Many people read the quran without believing in it. Rather they do it just to translate it or even to discredit and find fault with it. What I'm saying is that I find it more in line with the rest of the text if it said something like "Oh, you who believe, you shall fast...." rather than mixing in stuff about witnessing guidance.I wonder what this witnessing the shahr ramadhan really means. To me this is multi-variable, and not solvable unless further guidance from "upstairs" is received.
Cheers, and enjoy the summer!
