What Constitutes a Muslim?
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Peace to every one here i think as a result of knowledge of Islam i belive a person who Belive that Quran is final word n message from God n who read n follow Quran who regect any thing in his life whicih is repegnent to Quran n accept any thing whicih is in Quran should be a Muslim peace
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Bro Laytth regarding u,r comments on the thread Sectarian Tendencies and 3200 i think i have met peoples from different back grounds i have met peoples who belive on code 19 i met peoples who says that there r Messangers after Mohammed whicih frankly i did not belived but the one thing whicih is here to put us on the one path is the Message from Allah Quan even God has said that people will differtionate n God will be the one who will judge them n Allah will give his final judgement on the doom day but to hold to the rope of Allah is main thing n tolrence is the key for that i have to say i learn alot of things here n the main thing is tolrence i find u bro Laytth as a very knowlegable person even u reject Mekka as being the place of pilgrimage i find bro yudip very knowlegable person even he reject two verse but still we got to stuck the message i belive this is the key God told us to serve our perents this command has nothing to do with the code 19 or wit Rasad Khalifa or with pilgrimage i think these thing didn,t really matter n we can live with each other and we will follow Quran till our last breath peace
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Peace Naxus,
i belive this is the key God told us to serve our perents this command has nothing to do with the code 19 or wit Rasad Khalifa or with pilgrimage i think these thing didn,t really matter n we can live with each other and we will follow Quran till our last breath peace
I agree completely with you...This is why I am attempting to do what Damon suggested, to bring a unified list that we will all agree on andall support as being 'what a Muslim represents'.
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Peace Layth, all,
after a year reading at FreeMinds, what I extracted is that a muslim is the person who is profoundly monotheist and acts with righteousness, and that you, people of FM in general, consider muslims too people that have other labels if they act rightly. -
Peace to every one here i think as a result of knowledge of Islam i belive a person who Belive that Quran is final word n message from God n who read n follow Quran who regect any thing in his life whicih is repegnent to Quran n accept any thing whicih is in Quran should be a Muslim peace
Peace Naxus
I disagree. I don't believe the Quran is important in defining a Muslim, and of course if followed through to it's eventual conclusion cannot be true.
People before the Quran were not Muslims? From my understanding Muslim simply means 'one who submits' - the submission in this context being to God. That is it (IMO - sorry mz 357!).
Also in numerous quotes God has made it clear that as long as one believes in God and does good, he has nothing to fear on the day of judgement.
Roshan
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Salaams all,
mquran said
According to 9/11, a muslim (i.e. a brother in ad-deen) is a person who contineously upholds thier commitments and produces growth/development.
isn't this a Gods Deinition of a muslim? our brothers in faith.?
If this is a definition then do we need to make another one?
Salaams.
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Peace to bro Laytth ,Roshan n every one here Bro Laytth i totely agree with u n i hope insteat of fighting we will use our energy for permoting The Message i mean The Quran not only to others but to our lives too n i hope u,r unification with bro Edip will work out n togehter we all should serve our God by permoting his message to every one n bro Roshan my above posts were in answer to the following comments of Bro Laytth
Peace all,Is tolerating different views no longer a requirement of being Muslim?
Why can't Edip be allowed to reject 2 verses if he has found based on his research (right or wrong) that they are not part of the Scripture?
Does that disqualify him in some way from being a Muslim?
In the same token, I reject Mekka as being the place of pilgrimage based on my own research (right or wrong) and have stated openly that Jerusalem is Bakka...
Does that disqualify me in some way from being a Muslim?
Please think this matter over and share your views on the thread "What Constitutes a Musilm?"
Intolerance is not what we stand for...
personaly i belive muslim n mumin r different peoples they r not interchangeable the muslim is the one who do good n belive on God n momin is the one who uphold the Quran n follow Quran for more information read the article on the main site the thread is http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/mumin.htm peace
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Peace,
I believe the constitution of a Muslim amounts to believing in One. I have purposely excluded the word "God" from my declaration as I have grown to believe that a person does not need to subscribe to any terminology to justify his /her understandings. Most recently, a long winded, yet highly educational debate between myself and an atheist concluded with the understanding that what I called "God" and what he called "nature" were essentially the same concept.
I would venture to say that polytheists, agnostics, and even pagan's may see the unity of "One" in their own way. What is the best garment? Righteousness- and I've seen it in many colors.
Just my humble thoughts,
May peace be upon you all,
Tay -
Hi all,
To define ?a Muslim? is not an easy matter, but important in today?s jungle of expressions.
As someone said, ?Muslim? can not be limited to mean a person who reads, understands, and follows the Qur?an.
It is not the Qur?an, but God?s System, or Islam, which is crucial.
One who has never even heard of the Qur?an, may well be living closer to what the message in the Qur?an tells us, than anyone else.
The Qur?an itself instructs us to study other signs besides the Qur?an.Whether you believe in something you want to call God, is also not important, it is whether your way of living is in accordance with the system, which the Universe is following, that is important.
If you understand this, you will not believe in God, but you will understand that there is ?something? that is so absolute, in all aspects, that you can not describe it. But, in order for the human mind to have some rational way of dealing with it, you may want to call it ?God?, or ?Allah?, or some other name. The Qur?an calls it ?Allah?, in order to help us in this, but also says that the name is not important.The Qur?an points out the major guidelines on how to live in accordance with the system that the Universe follows, and thus may make it easier for us to achieve this. And that is the only mission of the Qur?an, or any other scripture, citing, what we call ?the words of God?.
In my opinion, the expressions ?God Alone?, or ?Qur?an Alone? are, therefore, not adequate.
However, I would regard a person who, consciously, tries to live in a way that is beneficial to everyone and everything in the Universe, and tries to avoid harming anyone or anything in the Universe, as a ?Muslim?. I.e. trying to keep up a fair balance in everything he/she does.
Therefore not depending on, or limited to, the points mentioned initially by Layth, as points of discussion.Best regards,
Ali Omar
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Muslim and Islam can mean whatever any of you wants it to mean.
And what constitutes a Muslim can be whatever you want to constitute a Muslim.If you are talking about how the Koran uses these words that is a different story.
Godbless,
AnwarIslam,
Al-Qur'an, Al-Baqara 2116
Waqloo itakhaa Allhu waladan subnahu bal lahu m fee a(l)ssamwti wa(a)l-ari kullun lahu qnitoon(a)
They say "Allah hath begotten a son" Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth everything renders worship to Him.
Aal-E-Imran 383
Afaghayra deeni Allhi yabghoona walahu aslama man fee a(l)ssamwti wa(a)l-ari awAAan wakarhan wa-ilayhi yurjaAAoon(a)
Do they seek for other than the Religion of Allah?-while all creatures in the heavens and on earth have, willing or unwilling, bowed to His Will (Accepted Islam), and to Him shall they all be brought back.
An-Nahl 1649
Walillhi yasjudu m fee a(l)ssamwti wam fee al-ari min dbbatin wa(a)lmal-ikatu wahum l yastakbiroon(a)
And to Allah doth obeisance all that is in the heavens and on earth, whether moving (living) creatures or the angels for none are arrogant (before their Lord).
Ar-Room 3026
Walahu man fee a(l)ssamwti wa(a)l-ari kullun lahu qnitoon(a)
To Him belongs every being that is in the heavens and on earth all are devoutly obedient to Him.
It is my humble opinion that verything in this universe is muslim/subservient to Allah, as the Qur'an makes this plain, it is only human arrogance that confuses this issue. However, being mu'min takes a conscious effort on one's part, and adherence to the natural laws of Allah as desribed in the Qur'an.
Al-Hujraat 4913-17
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
The desert Arabs say, "We believe." Say, "Ye have no faith; but ye (only)say, 'We have submitted our wills to Allah,' For not yet has Faith entered your hearts. But if ye obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not belittle aught of your deeds for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
Only those are Believers who have believed in Allah and His Messenger, and have never since doubted, but have striven with their belongings and their persons in the Cause of Allah Such are the sincere ones.
Say "What! Will ye instruct Allah about your religion? But Allah knows all that is in the heavens and on earth He has full knowledge of all things.
They impress on thee as a favour that they have embraced Islam. Say, "Count not your Islam as a favour upon me Nay, Allah has conferred a favour upon you that He has guided you to the faith, if ye be true and sincere.
Calling yourself muslim, and describing what a muslim is does not necessarily qualify you as mu'min, nor does it negate the fact that Allah has described the universe as muslimah, because all things submits to Hu's will. Also, to correct a statement ade in am earlier post. According to the Qur'an muslims have been here since creation began, submission did not begin with the revelation of the Qur'an, Abraham was muslimah
Peace & Love,
Olu'sanya -
This is a copy of a post that I previously made.
For me this is what Islam and being a Mulsim is aboutMy name is Carrie.
I am newly converted to Islam.
I just wanted to say hi to everyone and open a discussion as noted above.
This is a question that I posted on BeliefNet board but did not have much of a response.
This is My opinion only, for I am far from an expert, however being new to Islam I come without preconceptions of what is required simply because of years of tradition/culture rather than what I have read in the Qu'ran.
Islam stands for sumbmission to God. Surrendering ones heart to God and having doubtless faith in HIM.
I have come across repeatedly that what is required to please God is to submit to him as one God, to do good works and to believe in the Last Day . This is sufficient to gain favor for the afterlife and is extended to both the Jews and the Christians because while they have been misguided they are still People of the Book and believers.
?Those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Sabiens, and the Nazarenes; whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works, then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.? (Qu'ran 569)
Being a believer and submitting to one God,doing good works and believing in the Last Day is what initially makes you a Muslim.
The second stage to this would be to become one of the righteous. This entails the following rules for following the Straight Path as noted in the firm verses of the Qu'ran.
?Come let me recite to you what your Lord has forbidden for you that you should not set up anything with Him; and be kind to your parents; and do not kill your unborn children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is plain of it or subtle; and do not kill the soul which God has forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend.?
?And do not come near the money of the orphan, except for what is best, until he reached his maturity; and give honestly full measure and weight equitably. We do not burden a soul except by what it can bear, and if you speak then be just even if against a relative; and regarding the pledges made to God, you shall observe them. This He has enjoined you that you may remember.?
And this is My path, a Straight One. ?So follow it, and do not follow the other paths lest they divert you from His path. That is what He has enjoined you to that you may be righteous.? (Qu'ran 6151-153)The righteous would also be required to follow additional rules such as fasting, Salat, Charity, Hajj ect.
I think that however, it is important to note that as a person grows in their knowledge and faith that they will also grow in their righteousness.
I do not think that one is expected to blindly accept others interpretation of the appropriate way to practice the teachings of Islam. Or that one would be expected, in their infancy stages of learning, to following all of the rules from the very beginning. It would be like expecting a child to run before they can crawl.
I believe that Islam is a journey in developing a closeness with God and that one must first understand in order to effectively practice.
And is it not said in the Qu'ran
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them." (Qu'ran 1736 )
This is what Islam is to me.
Peace and Blessings Carrie )
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Peace all
My thoughts are that a 'muslim' is one who does not seek to serve self in their actions, they are selfless in the work the do, oppossed to selfish. Shadows do not face the sun because they do not serve their 'self' but rather they serve God. I see the ego as the shield and only when we surrender can God's spirit enter us. I believe selflessness is the seed for a 'mumin' who strives in all their works to serve the one 'God' (unity opposed to seperation).
pz
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Peace be upon you all,
I think we are leaving "muslim" in the air and not attaching it to any thing "real". Just like many say "I know the Truth", that is illogical, one must say, I know the truth regarding "x", not the truth in totality.
Same with one who peacefully submits(muslim). The question should go along with a certain subject, like "do you peacefully submit to this and that", because one is not perfect, so they are not peacefully submissive to all things at all times, although one who has faith will strive to peacefully submit at all times and die in that state.
"muslim" is NOT a title, it is a condition that people seem to slip in and out of.
So we do not seek to join with people who give themselves a TITLE, we seek to unite with those who work GOOD DEEDS and call to oneness. We do not unite with people who make prophecies a month in advance based on some special code 19 formula, we unite under ONENESS, not 19ness.
But even in that, its not as deep as many of you make it out to be. FOr example, on Faith Freedom, While Edip was debating Ali Sina, others of us were debating the rest, we were united in a purpose, but we were not joined as "free minds-19.org" group, it was just people who do not uphold false hadiths debating as one.
YOu see, on th eissues we all have in common, we AUTOMATICALLY UNITE.
Let me give an example, most pf us agree that homosexuality is wrong, but we do not seek out groups of heterosexuals to "join" with to promote heterosexualism, we understand that we are already joined on that and that each one just needs to speak out.
If all of us speak out on ONENESS, then we are AUTOMATICALLY UNITED, and when we all speak out, it is as one. The God says to COMPETE in good deeds, not join groups that have the wrong focus and which will lead others astray after we have gotten the ear of many.
Edip has just finished debating ALi SIna on Faith Freedom, but that was not enough, now a prophecy is issued based on some Word puzzle or something, I don't know what it is, I guess I will have to wait until Feb.
The point is, who here agrees with this? Won't this reflect the hard work everyone put in at Faith Freedom?
"muslim" is not a title, it is an action, I cannot see how people are submitting to prophecies of a 19 code in February.
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Salaamun alaikum Kyle,
"muslim" is not a title, it is an action, I cannot see how people are submitting to prophecies of a 19 code in February.
Agreed. If 'free-minds' and '19.org' unites, it will not be on the basis of 19. Rather, it would be on the basis of the core of Quranic teachings (i hope).
If you are leading a muslim organisation and anyone (even a trinitarian) comes and says 'i commit myself and will produce growth', then you are obliged to accept that person (9/11).
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Peace be upon you MQ,
Agreed. If 'free-minds' and '19.org' unites, it will not be on the basis of 19. Rather, it would be on the basis of the core of Quranic teachings (i hope).
Yes, everyone is HOPING, while at the same time, Edip is right here in front of our eyes giving a PROPHECY for Feb 19th in response to a debate, based on some kind of crossword puzzle. We do not base our decisions on chance, we look for the Gods clear LAWS and follow them. We hear and obey.
If you are leading a muslim organisation and anyone (even a trinitarian) comes and says 'i commit myself and will produce growth', then you are obliged to accept that person (9/11).
Here is the problem I have. What is the difference between a "muslim organization" and a SECT? You know we have both been here for a very long time, how many times have we seen others come here and call us a sect and we respond that Free Minds is just a forum not a GROUP? Why did we say that? Because we understood (at least I thought so) that when you form a group seperate from the rest of humanity, it is a sect.
What does the phrase "muslim organization" mean?
Again, its like being a vegetarian, you don't have to go join a special group, and have each group join up with other vegetarian groups, no. YOu just follow your practice and you promote to others and educate them. Therefore all vegetarians are united on a higher level.
Let me ask everyone, again, what are the two "groups" together going to do that the two "groups" seperate couldn't do?
What will be the first project? Lets say Faith Freedom website was a test run. Many of us were there, probably some still are, I was there and of course Edip was debating the "leader". There was plenty of good debate, we all were united in the effort. But after all of that work, Edip ends it with a prophecy for Feb 19th.
My mind is boggled that I am the only one who is speaking up about this. I really cant believe what I am witnessing.
SO again, in regards to working with ANYONE, even a trinitarian in good deeds, YES, I will ALWAYS do that, but you do not have to form a group with the trinitarian, THAT is the difference. We don't have to form ANY kind of group. We are getting away from the understanding that Free Minds is not a group, just a place to study and debate.
Our seperation is only an illusion, the God is ONE.
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Salaamun alaikum Kyle,
Man, as usual, your questions are incisive ! I hope you keep at this study of yours
Here is the problem I have. What is the difference between a "muslim organization" and a SECT? You know we have both been here for a very long time, how many times have we seen others come here and call us a sect and we respond that Free Minds is just a forum not a GROUP? Why did we say that? Because we understood at least I thought so that when you form a group seperate from the rest of humanity, it is a sect.
We're not allowed to join sects, right ? By that logic, we should all be sunnis because we're not allowed to break away from the main group...hehe.
No, no, imho, it doesn't work like that. It works like this
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22/78, we have 'al-muslimeen', this is the core group. 22/78 is mentioned with Ibrahim, who fulfilled certain criteria (like establishing god's system etc).
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Then we have the 'shiyas'/parties (6/159). But here's how to tell them apart from the core group Allah says they 'FARRAQU DEENAHUM' (fractionalised thier DEEN). So they abandoned part of the deen. Where is the deen contained ? In the fully-detailed book.
So to me, the way to tell the difference between almuslimeen core group and those who breakaway is to see conformity to the Book itself.
SO again, in regards to working with ANYONE, even a trinitarian in good deeds, YES, I will ALWAYS do that, but you do not have to form a group with the trinitarian, THAT is the difference. We don't have to form ANY kind of group. We are getting away from the understanding that Free Minds is not a group, just a place to study and debate.
The trinitarian can JOIN the core group, but can never LEAD the core group, because he has broken up the deen.
good mental stimulation there, brother.
thanks and peace.
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Peace be upon you MQ,
Man, as usual, your questions are incisive ! I hope you keep at this study of yours
Thank you brother, I hope I can find the right question.
Code
Here is the problem I have. What is the difference between a "muslim organization" and a SECT? You know we have both been here for a very long time, how many times have we seen others come here and call us a sect and we respond that Free Minds is just a forum not a GROUP? Why did we say that? Because we understood (at least I thought so) that when you form a group seperate from the rest of humanity, it is a sect.We're not allowed to join sects, right ? By that logic, we should all be sunnis because we're not allowed to break away from the main group...hehe.
D The main group is The party of the God, ONENESS. Mankind was once one community, but THEN started breaking of into sects. Sunni, is just one of those sects. I belong to the Party of the God(at least I strive to). I do not belong to Free minds group, Sunnis, shiites, christians, jews, etc. I follow the God's guidance in the Book of Life(Universe) and follow all readings that guide me through this great Book(universe). The God tells us to have faith in what was descended on us and those before us.
So breaking away from sunnism, was joining the ONE COMMUNITY. We go backwards to join another SECT, and even further to join two sects together.
We don't need a NAME in order to promote goodness and reject wickedness. When the God said "let there arise a community from you to call to all that is good", He did not say give that group a name. Each os us who do right is described as one who peacefully submits. A community of such people are described as a community of ones who peacefully submit. There does not need to be a NAME. When you NAME something , you define it, therefore making it SEPERATE from other things. Seperation is wickedness, we strive for UNIFICATION/ONENESS, which is above names.
THAT is why this reading(quran) does not have a name, only attributes
THAT is why our Lord is above names, olnly attributesIf you have faith in the One God and the ONENESS of all things, then promote it to everyperson, every chance you get.
Let me go further, we should already be doing that. If we were all already doing that (myself included, but I am making good progress), we would see that joining with a group of 19 worshippers will not help us but cause confusion (because it would be under the same TITLE/LABEL). Why not everyone in each group compete in all that is good. If we MUST insist on "groups" why not some competition to see which "group" can do better?
No, no, imho, it doesn't work like that. It works like this
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22/78, we have 'al-muslimeen', this is the core group. 22/78 is mentioned with Ibrahim, who fulfilled certain criteria (like establishing god's system etc).
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Then we have the 'shiyas'/parties (6/159). But here's how to tell them apart from the core group Allah says they 'FARRAQU DEENAHUM' (fractionalised thier DEEN). So they abandoned part of the deen. Where is the deen contained ? In the fully-detailed book.
So to me, the way to tell the difference between almuslimeen core group and those who breakaway is to see conformity to the Book itself.
Yes, so why cant we see that the followers of 19 have fractionalized this system? What does the God say about those who break off into sects? D I am not interested in joining the fractionalized group, I only want to promote the God's system, and continue to study and debate in this FORUM.
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SO again, in regards to working with ANYONE, even a trinitarian in good deeds, YES, I will ALWAYS do that, but you do not have to form a group with the trinitarian, THAT is the difference. We don't have to form ANY kind of group. We are getting away from the understanding that Free Minds is not a group, just a place to study and debate.The trinitarian can JOIN the core group, but can never LEAD the core group, because he has broken up the deen.
I do not want to use the word GROUP. A trinitarian will most likely not join the core group because he/she is PREVENTED form the restricted masjid(mental focus of hearing and obeying) to which we should be pointed(Qibla). But they will never follow the correct Qibla, nor will they follow each others. We have a sect here whose Qibla is 19, clearly.
good mental stimulation there, brother.
Thank you for the stimulation brother, I just wish that we could be using our energy for other topics. This topic should have been rejected right away. It concerns me that it is being given real consideration, but I am at peace with my position, as is stated, this is not a group, but a forum, each will be paid according to what they earned.
Lastly, do you have any idea of what is suppossed to happen on Feb 19th accordingt o Edip? I haven't gotten an answer, I was hoping someone else had that info. Or maybe someone here who follows the 19 philosophy can calculate it themselves and tell us, unless Edip is the only one with this "power".
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