Your views on the tsunami
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Ok idolfree,
Now I understand the relationship between the picture and Abraham's experience.
About the 3 pigs and the wolfs that goes about huffing and puffing it all boils down to which of the pigs are intersted in having a solid foundation even if it means taking a long while to build it.As it can be seen from the aerial view of the mosque and flattened adjacent piece of land one must always learn to have a solid foundation even in religion.Thanks for the clrification.
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Peace all,
I have just received some news that some preachers in the Middle East either consider the tsunami a manmade disaster or a punishment to Thailand's tourism industry (or even for celebrating Christmas!). Again I am angered by the reaction of these people; it just doesn't make sense, even in the Sunni mindset--Aceh, which was hit worst, was not a touirsit heaven like Phuket, but instead the first province of Indonesia that officially incorporates shariah law.
I could only weep at the insensitivity of these so-called ulama...
http//tinyurl.com/52xt5
Yusuf Qardhawi blames tsunami on tourismsource http//www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD84205
Conspiracy Theories Surrounding the Tsunami It was a Punishment from
Allah for Celebrating Christmas and Other Sins; It was Caused by the
U.S., Israel, IndiaFollowing practically all international events of importance,
conspiracy theories are raised in the Arab and Muslim worlds. This
occurred most recently following the Asian tsunami. Some of these
conspiracy theories focused, as they often do, on allegations that it
was a plot by the U.S. and Israel. Others speculated that the tsunami
was a divine punishment for sins, including that of celebrating
Christmas. The following are speeches and articles which appeared in
the Arab media raising conspiracy theories about the cause of the
tsunami; more will be posted on the MEMRI TV Project website
(www.memritv.org) in the coming daysPalestinian Friday Sermon by Sheik Mudeiris The Tsunami is Allah's
Revenge at Bangkok CorruptionThe following are excerpts from a Friday mosque sermon aired on
Palestinian Authority TV by Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris, which was
recorded and translated by the MEMRI TV Monitor Project" What happened there, in South-East Asia ? we ask God to have mercy
upon all the martyrs - for he who dies by drowning is a martyr. We
ask God to have mercy upon all the Muslims who died there. Allah
willing, they are martyrs. But, don't you think that the wrath of the
earth and the wrath of the sea should make us reflect? Tens of
thousands dead, and many predict that the number will be in the
hundreds of thousands. We ask God for forgiveness. When oppression
and corruption increase, the law of equilibrium applies. I can see in
your eyes that you are wondering what the 'universal law of
equilibrium' is. This law is a divine law. If people are remiss in
implementing God's law and in being zealous and vengeful for His
sake, Allah sets his soldiers in action to take revenge."The oppression and corruption caused by America and the Jews have
increased. Have you heard of these beaches that are called 'tourists'
paradise?' You have all probably heard of Bangkok. We read about it,
and knew it as the center of corruption on the face of this earth.
Over there, there are Zionist and American investments. Over there
they bring Muslims and others to prostitution. Over there, there are
beaches, which they dubbed 'tourists' paradise,' while only a few
meters away, the locals live in hell on earth. They cannot make ends
meet, while a few meters away there is a paradise, 'tourists'
paradise.'"Do you want the earth to turn a blind eye to the corrupt oppressors?
Do you want the sea? Do you want the sea to lower its waves in the
face of corruption that it sees with its own eyes?! No, the zero hour
has come."Advisor to Saudi Arabia's Justice Minister The Nations were
Destroyed for Lying, Sinning, and being InfidelsIbrahim Al-Bashar, an advisor to Saudi Arabia's Justice Minister,
argued on the Saudi Arabian/UAE Al-Majd TV channel that the sins of
the affected countries caused the tsunami"Whoever reads the Koran, given by the Maker of the World, can see
how these nations were destroyed. There is one reason they lied,
they sinned, and were infidels. Whoever studies the Koran can
see this is the result?"Some intellectuals, philosophers, and journalists - may Allah show
them the straight path ? say this is the wrath of nature. Whoever is
angry must have a soul and a brain in order to act out his anger.
Does the earth have a brain and a body with a soul? They talk about
the wrath of nature, or else they claim that what happened was due to
a fissure in the depths of the earth, which the earth's crust could
not bear. They connect cosmic matters."But who is the one that cracked it, split it, and commanded it to
quake?! Why don't we ask that question? Who is the one that sent the
wind? Who sent the floods? But they tell you that it was due to the
ebb and tide, and that the barometric depressions are to blame. Who
commanded them to do so?"These countries, in which these things occurred ? don't they refrain
from adopting Allah's law, which is a form of heresy? Man-made laws
have been chosen over Allah's law, which has been deemed unsuitable
to judge people?! Whoever does not act according to Allah's law is a
heretic, that's what Allah said in the Koran. Don't these countries
have witchcraft, sorcery, deceitfulness, and abomination?"Saudi Professor Sheikh Fawzan Al-Fawzan Allah Punishes for
Homosexuality and Fornication at ChristmasThe following are excerpts from an interview on Saudi/UAE's Al-Majd
TV with Sheikh Fawzan Al-Fawzan, a professor at the Al-Imam
University, which was recorded and translated by the MEMRI TV Monitor
Project"These great tragedies and collective punishments that are wiping out
villages, towns, cities, and even entire countries, are Allah's
punishments of the people of these countries, even if they are
Muslims."Some of our forefathers said that if there is usury and fornication
in a certain village, Allah permits its destruction. We know that at
these resorts, which unfortunately exist in Islamic and other
countries in South Asia, and especially at Christmas, fornication and
sexual perversion of all kinds are rampant. The fact that it happened
at this particular time is a sign from Allah. It happened at
Christmas, when fornicators and corrupt people from all over the
world come to commit fornication and sexual perversion. That's when
this tragedy took place, striking them all and destroyed everything.
It turned the land into wasteland, where only the cries of the ravens
are heard. I say this is a great sign and punishment on which Muslims
should reflect."All that's left for us to do is to ask for forgiveness. We must
atone for our sins, and for the acts of the stupid people among us
and improve our condition. We must fight fornication, homosexuality,
usury, fight the corruption on the face of the earth, and the
disregard of the lives of protected people."Saudi Cleric Muhammad Al-Munajjid Allah Finished Off the Richter
Scale in Revenge of Infidel CriminalsThe following are excerpts from an interview on Saudi/UAE's Al-Majd
TV with Saudi cleric Muhammad Al-Munajjid, which was recorded and
translated by the MEMRI TV Monitor Project"The problem is that the holidays are accompanied by
forbidden things, by immorality, abomination, adultery, alcohol,
drunken dancing, and ? and revelry. A belly dancer costs 2500 pounds
per minute and a singer costs 50,000 pounds per hour, and they hop
from one hotel to another from night to dawn. Then he spends the
entire night defying Allah."Haven't they learned the lesson from what Allah wreaked upon the
coast of Asia, during the celebration of these forbidden? At the
height of immorality, Allah took vengeance on these criminals."Those celebrating spent what they call 'New Year's Eve' in vacation
resorts, pubs, and hotels. Allah struck them with an earthquake. He
finished off the Richter scale. All nine levels gone. Tens of
thousands dead."It was said that they were tourists on New Year's vacation who went
to the crowded coral islands for the holiday period, and then they
were struck by this earthquake, caused by the Almighty Lord of the
worlds. He showed them His wrath and His strength. He showed them His
vengeance. Is there anyone learning the lesson? Is it impossible that
we will be struck like them? Why do we go their way? Why do we want
to be like them, with their holidays, their forbidden things, and
their heresy?"Egyptian Nationalist Weekly U.S.-Israel-India Nuclear Testing May
have Caused Asian Tsunami; The Goal Testing how to Liquidate
HumanityThe Egyptian nationalist weekly Al-Usbu' has published an
investigation by correspondent Mahmoud Bakri, titled "Humanity in
Danger," claiming that the earthquake and tsunami in Asia may have
resulted from joint nuclear testing by the U.S., Israel, and India.
The following are excerpts from the article"Was caused by American, Israeli, and Indian nuclear
testing on 'the day of horror?' Why did the 'Ring of Fire' explode?"? According to researchers' estimates, there are two possible
for what happened. The first is a natural, divine
move, because the region is in the 'Ring of Fire,' a region subject
to this destructive type of earthquakes." The second possibility is that it was some kind of human
intervention that destabilized the tectonic plates, an intervention
that is caused only in nuclear experiments and explosions. What
strengthens this direction are the tectonic plates
Indian soil , since in the recent few months, India
conducted over seven nuclear tests to strengthen its nuclear program
against the Pakistani ." reports have proven that the tectonic plates in India and
Australia collided with the tectonic plates of Europe and Asia. that India recently obtained high
nuclear technology, and a number of Israeli nuclear experts and
several American research centers were ."The three most recent tests appeared to be genuine American and
Israeli preparations to act together with India to test a way to
liquidate humanity. In the most recent test, they began
destroying entire cities over extensive areas. Although the nuclear
explosions were carried out in desert lands, tens of thousands of
kilometers away from populated areas, they had a direct effect on
these areas."Since 1992, many research monitoring earthquakes across
the world, such as the International Center for the of
Earthquakes in Britain and in Turkey and other countries,
the importance of no nuclear testing in the 'Ring of
Fire,' where the most recent earthquake struck, because this region
is thought to be one of the most geologically active regions over
millions of years. Thus, the international centers have always
classified it as one of the most dangerous regions likely to
shift at any given moment, even without human interference."But the scientific reports stated that there had been nuclear
activity in this region ? particularly after America's recent
decision to rely largely on the Australian desert ? part of which is
inside the 'Ring of Fire' ? for its secret nuclear testing."Similarly, many international reports spoke of joint Indian-Israeli
nuclear activity. Moreover, only this year Arab and Islamic countries
intervened more than three times in the U.S. to stop this joint
nuclear activity."Nevertheless, although so far it has not been proven that secret
Indian-Israeli nuclear testing is what caused the destructive
earthquake, there is evidence that the recent nuclear tests, the
exchange of nuclear experts between India and Israel, and the
American pressure on Pakistan regarding its nuclear cooperation with
Asian and Islamic countries ? all these pose
a big question mark regarding the causes of the severe earthquake in
Asia."Scientific studies prove that there is increasing nuclear activity
under the waters of the oceans and seas ? and that America is the
first country in the world responsible for this activity. This raises
an enormous question mark? What is puzzling is that all the previous
earthquakes did not cause such great destruction ,
particularly the earthquake's center was
some 40 kilometers under the seabed of the Indian Ocean."One of the American researchers, Merrills Kinsey, pointed out an
important fact in the scientific report that he prepared after the
last disaster, which is that the center of an earthquake that took
place some 40 kilometers under the ocean floor could not have caused
such destruction unless nuclear testing had been conducted close to
the tectonic plates in these countries, or unless several days
previously there had been activity that caused these plates
to shift and collide ? which constitutes a danger to all humanity,
not only to the inhabitants of these countries?"
Palestinian Authority TV, December 31, 2005. To view the clip,
visit http//memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=451.Al-Majd TV (Saudi Arabia/UAE), January 5, 2005. To view the clip,
visit http//memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=462.Al-Majd TV (Saudi Arabia/UAE), December 31, 2004. To view the
clip, visit http//memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=459.Al-Majd TV (Saudi Arabia/UAE), January 1, 2005. To view the clip,
visit http//memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=452.The name was not identified by MEMRI.
Al-Usbu' (Egypt), January 1, 2005.
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there have been many ways people have approached this, heres a good list
This comes down to the age old atheist question, 'How can a just God justify the suffering of innocents'. However, this is a good question for theists to ask as well.
Although, this assumes the community were innocents. However, making this assumption, how do you (plural) seek to justify this.
Point number 8 does not rebutt this fully, IMO.
5 and 6 to some degree are in line with my opinions with regards to the tsunami. Does heaven justify the suffering some will go through in life?
Roshan
BTW, does every discussion have to revert to some rant about sunnism!?!?
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Salaams All,including those of us who cannot see God in action,
Just look at the way Allah is acting through those of us who beleive in him how many people are doing something to benefit the poor trodden-by the tsunami.
Mind you unless we stop in our idol worshipping ways and get down to Allah's buiseness to safeguard and prepare for anything like this ever happening again -(No , we won't i think),So it will no dought happen again.
So we can carry on blaming Allah everytime it happens but stay weak and be not prepared for it happening next time.
How stupid and unfortunate even though Allah shows us ways to be Safe - i think.
Thanks.
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Peace all,
Omari?s pic reminded of a post on another forum about the claims of each sect pointing to the preservation of their idols. A brother from Indonesia wrote The coconut trees were also still standing and predicted soon they would begin to worship them. Hilarious! lol lol lol
I found a lesson in the trees that were created that way in the tropics. Perhaps their example will be how scientists perfect a way to be safe from natural laws. Or perhaps their physical humbleness saving them can be a lesson for us all in itself and a reminder of our (raka?a) humbleness saving us.
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Aother point of view
Deepak Chopra interview on Larry King Live regarding God and the Tsunami
1/7/05KING Deepak Chopra, how can you have faith when you see something like this?
DEEKAPK CHOPRA, AUTHOR Hi, Larry. In fact, your faith increases, Larry.
Because faith is trusting that God is all the forces, the forces of creation, the forces of protection and the forces of destruction. This is an opportunity for us to transcend our religious differences, our ethnic boundaries, and create a new humanity which is based on love, sharing, compassion, giving.And we are seeing that. The militaries of the world are getting together to bring relief. People are losing their differences in Sri Lanka. The Buddhists and the Hindus and the Muslims are getting together. This is our opportunity.
You know in historical traditions, in religious traditions, God rained on the earth for 40 days. And from that came Noah's Ark and the creation of a new humanity. Can we create a new humanity that is not based on militarism ethnocentrism, racism, bigotry, hatred, and prejudice?
KING Deepak, if he loves us why does he bring us such pain that could be prevented?
CHOPRA I think, Larry, one of the problems right now is we keep referring to God as him and his. We have a very sexist, male identity that we've given to God. I agree with Michael Lerner, that our idea of God, our concept of God, our experience of God, changes as we evolve. I think the idea of sin and punishment is very, very primitive. And we have to ask ourselves right now, are we going to choose between sin and compassion? Compassion is the way to go right now.
And you know, there's lots of evidence, even scientific, that the earth is a living organism. The gaia (ph) hypothesis. Is it possible that our consciousness and the turbulence in our consciousness has anything to do with the turbulence in nature? Michael Lerner just referred to that. One of the very interesting things that happened with the tsunami was, no animal died. The elephants. The hares. The rabbits. The birds. They were so tuned in to the forces of nature that they escaped. They ran. Some of the elephants broke their chains and ran to the high level mountainous area where the tidal waves could not reach. We have lost that connection. Is there a way that we can collectively transcend to a level of consciousness where we see that the turbulence in our collective mind, possibly, is inseparable from the turbulence in nature? Because we are part of nature.
KING Is it hard, Deepak Chopra, to stay up? In other words, is it hard to ground that feeling of good will when you see a tragedy like this?
CHOPRA No, it in fact helps you ground that feeling of good will, Larry. You have to remember, as again, Rabbi Lerner said something very profound. The actual figure is 40,000 children are dying every day of preventable causes. 23 million people have died since World War I due to war and related violence. Right now there are 35 wars going on in our world. This is an opportunity for us to say, the cataclysmic events in nature are so big, but the inhumanity of man to man is even bigger. And can we learn from this, that at least there are certain things that we can do to make this a better world? What can we do? This is our opportunity to go beyond our religious differences because of what's happening. It brings out the essential goodness of man.
CALLER The question is, do you have any advice as to the masses, exactly how to keep this a little more balanced?
KING Good question.
CHOPRA It's a very good question. You know, the idea here is that if we quiet the turbulence in our collective mind and heal the rift in our collective soul, could that have an effect on nature's mind, if nature has a mind? The gaia hypothesis says nature does have a mind, that the globe is conscious. So a critical mass of people praying or a critical mass of people collectively engaging in meditation could conceivably, even from modern physics point of view, through non-local interactions, actually simmer down the turbulence in nature. And there are precedents for this in all the religions. That when you pray, that you quieten your mind, that you go into deep silence, you change the way nature behaves. That it's not a cause/effect relationship; it's the inseparability of one consciousness that manifests itself in the diversity of creation.
KING Deepak, do you doubt?
CHOPRA No, Larry, I don't doubt. But I do feel sorry sometimes that we have allowed God to be hijacked by religious dogma. For example, right now on the show there aren't any women. You know, why is that? Every time we do a show on God, religion, it's always us males representing these different traditions. We need to realize that when we share our suffering, out of that comes compassion. And out of compassion comes love and understanding. And from that comes healing. As long as we stick to "my" version of God, we're going to have problems. I say that right on the show.
(As an aside, Chopra's comment about the absence of women led King to ask the other participants whether he was right and if there was a religious show on television the next night, would they expect to see a woman. The responses led King to suggest a program just on that issue.)
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Peace Tony,
Many animals did die, but they were domesticated animals that either could not break away, or had lost their innate instincts due to their domestication.
I think that what is most important in this view is that the turbulence of our "collective consciousness" may be a source of the turbulence within nature.
Many want to see this tsunami as some sort of punishment or wrath of Allah, instead of natural laws, which are effected by our consciousness and behavior, in operation.
Also, as pointed out in the article, thousands are dying everyday due to man's inhumanity to man through many ways , how come this is not being discussed? When the cause is obviously mankind the death and destruction gets little or no notice, yet when nature opersates according to it's laws all of a sudden people want to talk about Allah. Why is that?Peace and Love,
Olu'sanya -
This is a post of mine from another forum regarding this issue...........
From what I've been taught as being a Christian my whole life....
Yes God does control all the elements....... afterall, He's the one who created them. LOL.
TV evangelists are the last people on earth to get an impression from. Even Christians can't stand them.
There was recently an article, some bishop of Cantebury or something said that people have questioned their faith in God over the Tsunami disaster.
Personally, I believe that this was not a test by God, nor a punishment. It was an opportunity. If you look back to the beginning of ANY scripture..... you can see the underlying message there....... when Adam and Eve named all the creatures and birds and everything that crawled. Basically what this is saying is....... we see, we percieve, and we name it. Now, we saw this Tsunami, we percieved it as a bad thing, so therefore we called it a bad thing. However, what we percieve may not be exactly correct. It's just our perception. We created the idea of good and bad..... only God knows what is what........ like I said, afterall, he created it. We only label it........ we have faults.
The reason I call it an opportunity is because.... 1. Again, in the beginning EVERYTHING God made was good. That immediately tells you that nothing God creates is going to bad NOTHING. Which is why I am against original sin. Why would God do that to us? That tree in the garden of eden wasn't a test either. moving along....... 2. Think about this........ what major life lessons have you learned during the happiest moments in life? you would probably answer none.... because when we are at our happiest..... we are in a simple state of bliss.......... but when we suffer, that is when we contemplate all of life's meanings. It is through hardship that we discover our connection with God, life's purpose, and how we treat others as well as ourselves.
This may be hard to swallow, but the Tsunami was a blessing. Yes, alot of people died.... but where do you think they went? If you believe in life after death.... then all those people dead on the shore shouldn't bother you..... THEY MET GOD. And if I had a choice between sitting here on the PC talking to you, and meeting face to face with God, I would rather have the latter.
Those bodies on the shores are nothing but empty packages..... those aren't people anymore.... they are the simple shell that carried their soul....... the package is empty now..... their soul is else where. It's like crying over a damaged box when you know the contents are safely placed on your shelf.
As for the people left behind..... the children without parents, the parents without children..... only God knows their future, and none of us knows what God has in store for them....... through this disaster.......... they now have an opportunity to look towards their earthly brothers and sisters in a compassionate way that they may have never used before. Instead of breaking their heart, this will also open thier hearts.... something that may have never occured had it not been for the Tsunami.