Significance of alef in بِاسمِ

Bender

He He! Still clueless

This is still above my pay grade
So, focusing on understanding the things within my grasp

Peace-

Salaam,

You are not the only one Just don't give up!
Most of time when I study a subject I learn a lot of other interesting things which have nothing to do with the subject at hand but handy for my overall knowledge.

Salaam,
Bender

SAbboushi

Thanks!

bkanwar2

If really want to taste the eternal and unending mercy of "One who is not at all deity for worship". Please look up under root Ba-Siin-Miim and Alif-Siin-Miim (Siin-Miim-Waw/Ya), in lane and you shall have your answer.

Regards,

Badar

faruk

If really want to taste the eternal and unending mercy of "One who is not at all deity for worship". Please look up under root Ba-Siin-Miim and Alif-Siin-Miim (Siin-Miim-Waw/Ya), in lane and you shall have your answer.

Regards,

Badar

Salam Badar, Wiil you please elaborate the answer by your own words?

bkanwar2

SAbboushi, thanks for bringing this up. I looked at it a long time ago and could not untangle preconceived understanding enough. You are correct so much to learn and so little time.

is the noun from same root.

is a noun from root Alif-Siin-Miim or Siin-Miim-Waw. There is preposition Ba pre fixed to it.

Now let me correct my own understanding of first two verses of Quran and convey the concepts in simple English without adhering literally to original language

Surah 11

In order to taste the eternal and everlasting mercy of One who is not at all a deity for worship.

Surah 12

The praise, is not at all a deity for worship, rather is the Rabb (sustainer, maintainer, fosterer and accomplisher) of all the disciplines of knowledge.

Mazhar

Now let me correct my own understanding of first two verses of Quran and convey the concepts in simple English without adhering literally to original language

John Dryden in seventeenth century identified three types of translation

Metaphrase involving "word by word" and "line by line" translation

Paraphrase involving "sense for sense" translation

Imitation involving variance from words and sense by abandoning the text of the original as the translator sees fit. Translation Theoryp/url]

bkanwar2

Now let me correct my own understanding of first two verses of Quran and convey the concepts in simple English without adhering literally to original language

Surah 11

In order to taste the eternal and everlasting mercy of One who is not at all a deity for worship.

Surah 12

The praise, is not at all a deity for worship, rather is the Rabb (sustainer, maintainer, fosterer and accomplisher) of all the disciplines of knowledge.

Let me clarify my above comment. So no one tries to misconstrue these, the word meanings used is as literal as it can get. In translation of lost language of Quran. The problem is always with syntax, for it to flow in English one can not adhere to order in Quran. Otherwise, this translation is an open challenge to anyone to prove a single word meaning as wrong.

Regards,

SAbboushi

Thanks everyone for your posts.

Badar - could you please clarify your understanding of what your translation means -- is it your understanding that the Rabb is not a deity? Or maybe that The Rabb is a deity, but not one who should be worshipped ("One who is not at all a deity for worship&quot?

bkanwar2

Samir

All deities are for worship. Deity = God. All religions have deity or deities or God for worship. This concept is fundamental to almost all religions except one or may be two religions.

Quran denies this concept of Deity or God. Thereby nullifies all religions including current religion Islam. As it revolves around word Allah's meaning changed into one and only deity for worship.

However, the entity behind this universe is recognized as Rabb. Thereby Quran also denies atheistic concept of no entity at all.

Regards,

Mazhar

Surah 12

The praise, is not at all a deity for worship, rather is the Rabb (sustainer, maintainer, fosterer and accomplisher) of all the disciplines of knowledge.

The praise is not deity; The praise is the Rabb of all the disiplines of knowledge. Would someone please help me get some sense from his translation?

SAbboushi

Badar - I must admit I am struggling to understand what you are saying

bkanwar2

Isn't Religion Islam based upon fundamental principle of Allah, praised as one and only deity for worship?

Here this is actually denied that the praise for Rabb is not at all as a deity for worship. Therefore, no worship of any kind. Hence, no religion of any kind.

rather it is, Rabb of all disiplines of Knowledge.

These two verses 11 & 12 are giving a tremendous message.

Nullifying all religions.
Calling upon everyone that if you really want to taste his eternal and everlasting mercy, praise him by knowing/learning all disciplines of knowledge, that he is Rabb.

Which religion gives this message?

Regards

Taro_Hiroshi

Peace bkanwar2,

You indeed make a good point about the praise for Rabb is not at all being a deity for worship. Actually the word Ibada does not mean worship at all. The arabic word Ibada means service. Hence in quran-based islam a muslim man/woman is a servant of God. In quran-based islam a muslim man/woman is not a worshipper of God. People are free to worship God if they want. There are no verses in the Quran that forbids worshipping God. But at the same time, there are no verses in the Quran that promotes this concept either. Because the word worship is not quranic. The concept of worship exists in traditional islam (shia and sunni religions) and also in christianity and judaism. But the concept of worship does not exist in the Quran. This is a fact.

SAbboushi

bkanwar2 and Taro - it would be helpful for me if you could both define what you mean by the word "worship"

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Traditional kind of "worship" no, but the word itself implies a great show of respect to someone you regard highly. I worship my Master and that I do by serving devoutly. You can also say that the word glorify can count as equal to worship though. Worship your Master day and night, or with modern terms, 24/7.

Abada does not mean worship, but there are other words that imply this meaning instead. But then again it comes down to what one regards as worship of the God. Pagan rituals by people who think God will hear them due to their many words and strict physical movement or the one who keeps God with him/her at all times.

To me, worship is adhering to all that the decree of God teaches, and the command and to regard The Master highly.

Have faith

Taro_Hiroshi

bkanwar2 and Taro - it would be helpful for me if you could both define what you mean by the word "worship"

SAbboushi,

I recommend doing an internet search. There are many good articles about the concept of "worship" on the internet.

SAbboushi

Thanks - let me clarify I am not seeking help in figuring out what I mean when I use the word "worship"; I am asking you what YOU meant when you used the word.

You made several claims about the word "worship" and I am asking you what YOU meant when you used the word. Same for bkanwar2

Actually the word Ibada does not mean worship at all... In quran-based islam a muslim man/woman is not a worshipper of God. People are free to worship God if they want. There are no verses in the Quran that forbids worshipping God... Because the word worship is not quranic. The concept of worship exists in traditional islam (shia and sunni religions) and also in christianity and judaism. But the concept of worship does not exist in the Quran. This is a fact.

Bender

Isn't Religion Islam based upon fundamental principle of Allah, praised as one and only deity for worship?

Here this is actually denied that the praise for Rabb is not at all as a deity for worship. Therefore, no worship of any kind. Hence, no religion of any kind.

rather it is, Rabb of all disiplines of Knowledge.

These two verses 11 & 12 are giving a tremendous message.

Nullifying all religions.
Calling upon everyone that if you really want to taste his eternal and everlasting mercy, praise him by knowing/learning all disciplines of knowledge, that he is Rabb.

Which religion gives this message?

Regards

Salaam,

RED I think one of the mistakes you make, is to take the definitions and principles arabs gave to the word Allah and implemented it in your translations.

Salaam,
Bender

Armanaziz

Isn't Religion Islam based upon fundamental principle of Allah, praised as one and only deity for worship?

Here this is actually denied that the praise for Rabb is not at all as a deity for worship. Therefore, no worship of any kind. Hence, no religion of any kind.
rather it is, Rabb of all disiplines of Knowledge.

These two verses 11 & 12 are giving a tremendous message.

Nullifying all religions.
Calling upon everyone that if you really want to taste his eternal and everlasting mercy, praise him by knowing/learning all disciplines of knowledge, that he is Rabb.

Which religion gives this message?

Regards

Salamun Alaikum.

The above theological standpoint is interesting. But I am curious to know how brother bkanwar would translate / interpret the word "Millat" as in Millat-i-Ibrahim found in Al-Qur'an 2130?

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

Taro_Hiroshi

Thanks - let me clarify I am not seeking help in figuring out what I mean when I use the word "worship"; I am asking you what YOU meant when you used the word.

You made several claims about the word "worship" and I am asking you what YOU meant when you used the word. Same for bkanwar2

Let me tell you what I mean by Worship. Worship consists of several acts of worship.

A man/woman does acts of worship that he/she thinks will please God and give him/her rewards in afterlife. These acts do not benefit humanity. The man/woman believes that these acts will please God, they do not please God. There is a difference between believing in something (with no evidence to support it) and knowing something (based on evidence/proof that supports one's view). The man/woman who believes that acts of worship will please God and give him/her rewards in the afterlife has no evidence to support his/her belief. Acts of worship will not bring a man/woman closer to God and will not give him/her rewards in the afterlife (see verse 3437 in the Quran).

Acts of worship do not benefit the human race.

Here are some examples of acts of worship

Reciting the Quran in a language you don't understand.
Circulating around a black cube in Mecca.
Practicing Ritual prayer 3-5 times a day.
Going to the Mosque on fridays.
Fasting 30 days in Ramadan.
Praying towards Mecca.
Performing funeral prayers.
8 ) Washing the dead.

Acts of worship will not do the the following

Stop corruption.
Create social reforms.
Reduce poverty.
Reduce crime.
Contribute to peace, justice and equality.
Bring humanity forward (when it comes to education, human rights and science).
Develop our personalities/souls so that we become more kind, compassionate and helpful.

On the other hand, acts of service is related to all the above mentioned things. And acts of service will bring a man/woman closer to God and give/him her rewards in the afterlife (see verse 3437 in the Quran).

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Significance of alef in بِاسمِ