Nasara: Christians or Nazarenes?
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Peace,
Ignore what your dictionaries say and look at what the word means instead. Have faith is to have various levels of confidence in something.
Have faith
English is not my language. I have to trust dictionaries of that language since they tell me what a word means and connotes for the listeners and readers of that language.
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Peace,
And reliance upon dictionaries is a trap, and we know what when observing the Quran perversion phenomenon. To have faith in something is always positive as long as it is not stubbornly adhering to what is wrong, but that can be the same with having belief in something erroneous.
But mostly it has a calm connotation that word 'faith' because it is more about confidence and certainty than to guess or think as is implied with belief; that God exists for example when we talk faith in God vs belief in God.
This is why I prefer to see faith as a potential equivalent to the Arabic word "iman".
Have faith
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Peace,
And reliance upon dictionaries is a trap, and we know what when observing the Quran perversion phenomenon. To have faith in something is always positive as long as it is not stubbornly adhering to what is wrong, but that can be the same with having belief in something erroneous.
But mostly it has a calm connotation that word 'faith' because it is more about confidence and certainty than to guess or think as is implied with belief; that God exists for example when we talk faith in God vs belief in God.
This is why I prefer to see faith as a potential equivalent to the Arabic word "iman".
Have faith
Dictionaries are the reliable source of knowing the "propositional meanings" of a word.
It is a verbal noun which reflects action and state only. "He was, or became, or felt, secure, safe, or in a state of security or safety; originally, he was, or became, quiet, or tranquil, in heart, or mind;".
One should believe only in that statement which is recorded in the Qur'aan or in that which is backed by empirical evidence of knowledge. This is the criteria given to humanity through the elevated Messenger in Grand Qur'aan to cross check the veracity of a statement.
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Dictionaries are the reliable source of knowing the "propositional meanings" of a word.
I would not be so damned sure about the dictionaries to be honest. Even between an English dictionary from 1828 and a contemporary one now there is a huge difference in portrayed meaning enough to distort it entirely. But if you wish to put your faith in them then do that and suffer the consequences. You will be stuck in man-made conjecture the past dozen centuries.
Dictionaries are not reliable at all, and in the case of Qur'an they need to be at least from the time of the Qur'an to be even the slightest trustworthy.
For the case of s - l - w I am not sure where you get your dictionary definition from because this root implies on connection/contact/bond/tie etc and with this rendition then it is impossible to properly insert that definition on the context wherever salat occurs, if we go to that discussion.
You know, to be able to properly take a unbiased opinion about any material, you have to make yourself as unbiased as is possibly possible and the same method must also be applied when you decipher that Qur'an of yours. You cannot simply take a dictionary and then think you will be able to interpret Qur'an accurately without a lot of bias and man-made erroneous philosophies on top of that.
You need to ponder why there are apparently two words that mean to pray because 'duwa' does also mean to pray/request so why does salat imply that meaning too. People without knowledge even say that it means a such advanced word as "contact prayer" out of a trilateral word that cannot connote a particularly advanced meaning.
Dare to challenge your own faith instead of blindly trying to understand what others have already conjectured about. What is wrong by using your own brain and thinking that God blessed you with?
Dictionaries connote on what people wish it to connote to at the particular time when it was written and according to their understanding. It absolutely brings no final verdict on a word's accurate meaning unless it was written before the interpreted material is, and best is if it was written relatively exactly the time as the original material to allow no meaning to change.
Salaam
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I would not be so damned sure about the dictionaries to be honest. Even between an English dictionary from 1828 and a contemporary one now there is a huge difference in portrayed meaning enough to distort it entirely. But if you wish to put your faith in them then do that and suffer the consequences. You will be stuck in man-made conjecture the past dozen centuries.
Second language can be understood by interaction with the native speakers, dictionaries and their grammar books. This is the time honoured principle of learning and understanding a foreign language. Rest is all Satanic understanding reflective of diseased hearts.
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You know, to be able to properly take a unbiased opinion about any material, you have to make yourself as unbiased as is possibly possible and the same method must also be applied when you decipher that Qur'an of yours. You cannot simply take a dictionary and then think you will be able to interpret Qur'an accurately without a lot of bias and man-made erroneous philosophies on top of that.
I keep repeating that all translations hitherto made suffer from inaccuracies, erronousness, twists, under-translations and many other defects. One or two translators belong to this forum. They have not come forward to challenge this claim. I can discuss one by one Ayah and tell them how incorrect is their translation and the reason thereof.
Dictionaries classical, grammar which is based on Qur'aan are additional tools, Qur'aan has inbuilt dictionary of all important words which can be used to detect if some dictionary erred. Dictinaries are always reliable because they are not based on personal biases of the compiler. He can err but not all dictionaries will err.
Unbiased translation is only academic translation, never done hitherto, whereby one restricts to the meanings and grammar of the language. Every word of Qur'aan has only one meaning, as is the definition of a word an expression coined for signular meanings.
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Peace,
You and your fellowship of "academics" really have no merit here though.
Every word of Qur'aan has only one meaning, as is the definition of a word an expression coined for signular meanings.
I have not argued against this fact; yet people use multiple meanings whenever not required to make a different meaning.
Dictinaries are always reliable because they are not based on personal biases of the compiler. He can err but not all dictionaries will err.
Are you joking with me? Dictionaries are not reliable at all if they are composed based on bias after the interpreted source was made. If you have a dictionary from 900 it is a big risk that it does not say the right thing about a word from the 7th century.
I keep repeating that all translations hitherto made suffer from inaccuracies, erronousness, twists, under-translations and many other defects. One or two translators belong to this forum. They have not come forward to challenge this claim. I can discuss one by one Ayah and tell them how incorrect is their translation and the reason thereof.
If you are that arrogant you can try me in the thread Nearness and Guidance. You will not believe though because you are already idolizing your academics of scholars that are themselves fooled by the corruptions over the following hundreds of years after the book called Qur'an was composed. That you cannot even challenge a traditional interpretation for a second is a great fallacy for you. These people are those that are fooled the most by this recitation.
You bring in human science to beat the narrative of God using biased sources? Where are you man? Do you not know that
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
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Man of Faith,
How do you even know, for example, the verse which you have just used, "And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess (6116)", has been translated correctly since you believe that dictionaries and lexicons are not reliable?
You are critical towards the word 'salat', but why are you not critiquing each and every word of the verse (6116) you have just quoted?
Why are you using 6116 or any other verse of the Quran without critiquing them first?
What does the word 'al-quran' mean? Does it mean, 'the recitation'? If it does, then what makes you think it the correct? Why hasn't the meaning of the word 'al-quran' changed just like the word 'salat'?
If the word 'salat' can change, then each and every word that exists in the Quran is capable of change. So why do you even use any Quranic verse in the first place without translating them first using your 'knowledge of Arabic'?
Peace brother peace
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Peace,
If the word 'salat' can change, then each and every word that exists in the Quran is capable of change. So why do you even use any Quranic verse in the first place without translating them first using your 'knowledge of Arabic'?
I have faith that the recitation is a reflection of God's words, but I have difficulty to apply any of the passages without carefully investigating them first, particularly if they seem to merely look like neanderthal Pagan practices.
Why are you using 6116 or any other verse of the Quran without critiquing them first?
Will you deny that if you follow most people they will lead you astray? If you do not then we can please end the discussion here already.
What does the word 'al-quran' mean? Does it mean, 'the recitation'? If it does, then what makes you think it the correct? Why hasn't the meaning of the word 'al-quran' changed just like the word 'salat'?
In the lack of any sign that it is wrong with recitation I keep it that way. It is irrelevant actually. But I have considered analyzing the word more into depth before, but it is not within the scope right now when my efforts are on salat. There are verses that make me curious about Qur'an though such as these (Monotheist translation)
1777 Such was the way of those whom We had sent before you of Our messengers. And you will not find any change in Our way.
1778 Hold the contact prayer till the setting of the sun; to the murkiness of the night; and the Qur?an at dawn - the Qur?an at dawn is witnessed.
1779 And from the night, as an addition, you shall reflect upon it for yourself, perhaps your Lord would grant you a station that is praiseworthy.How much sense does that sentence make to you? In my regard; the understanding is completely off. But if you want to interpret it as ritualistic prayer at nightfall then feel free.
How do you even know, for example, the verse which you have just used, "And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess (6116)", has been translated correctly since you believe that dictionaries and lexicons are not reliable?
Correct or not; it is very true indeed in saying. I do not absolutely think that 100% of the Qur'an is misinterpreted; only that is is often that. Sometimes I have read, a dozen or two, verses before I found any inconsistency and oftentimes it is only minor and not affecting the meaning too much.
Have faith