Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
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How can you understand the text of a second language without caring about the above three things? If you pay damn to basic requirements of learning a language, you might become prey of Satan's whispers who will allure your scholarly skills of deriving meaning paying damn to any principle.
I do not give a damn about the requirements of learning a language, but I avoid listening unquestionably on scholars and their written grammar teachings and traditional interpretation of words.
you might become prey of Satan's whispers who will allure your scholarly skills of deriving meaning paying damn to any principle
I think that it is you and all who adhere to the interpretation unquestionably that are risking of becoming prey to Satan's whispers. Despite nullifying the communion as a ritual I have basically proved that it is not a ritual whatsoever. But you can choose to continue to believe that if you like, but do not come here and say I am wrong.
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Dear Man of Faith,
May peace be upon you.
Let me break the original Arabic of 11114 into an analysis.
Word by word translation Keep al-salat gazes intentions the day and (at) approach (of) the night indeed the good remove(s) the bad. This is a regard to those who pay attention.
Green Obviously the word cannot be literally used in the context, so you have to paraphrase it. If you look at my work below with other passages involving taraf you can see that the word implies on intention (or similar).
The word 'intention' is nowhere to be found. Even the source you have shared goes against your understanding. The word 'tarafay' in 11114 is dual, its plural form is 'atraf' which means ends/edges/portions, and the singular form is 'taraf'. You are merely substituting the correct translation of the word with the word 'intention' since the other word 'gaze' does not make any sense. In my point of view, this approach of yours amounts to nothing but intellectual dishonesty.
20130 ...so be patient to what they are saying and glorify with praise (of) your Master before when (you) approach the rising of the sun, and at (your) approach (of) its setting, and at the coming of the night you shall glorify and at parts with intentions of the day perhaps you may be content...
Once again, you have translated the above red part of 20130 based on your own delusions, whims and desires.
2144 It was Us who gave luxury to these and their fathers, until they grew old with age. Do they not see that We come to the land and reduce it from its edges intentions? Will they be able to win?
In my humble opinion, the word 'edges/borders/parts/portions' makes much more sense in the above verse than 'intention'. But you are free to disagree.
I am sorry to say, if this is your approach to translate the words of God then, with respect, I would not like to continue to discuss this matter with you any further. I hope you consider and understand my reason for not wanting to engage for further discussion regarding this matter.
Peace and best regards.
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I think that it is you and all who adhere to the interpretation unquestionably that are risking of becoming prey to Satan's whispers.
You seem to have a very short memory. I discarded all translations/interpretations declaring them faulty including the one of the runners of this forum. Only because they violate the academic principles of translation.
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Once again, you have translated the above red part of 20130 based on your own delusions, whims and desires.
NO I HAVE NOT. I have just not found a viable ultimate translation.
20130 ...so be patient to what they are saying and glorify with praise (of) your Master before when (you) approach the rising of the sun, and at (your) approach (of) its setting, and at the coming of the night you shall glorify and with intentions of the day perhaps you may be content...
I translated it perfectly viable based on the words usage in other contexts. That some fool could not interpret it right in the past is not my fault. I told you that you would use 20130 against me because I have not been able to deliver a working translation.
The word 'intention' is nowhere to be found.
No of course it is not because the whole narration is not interpreted correctly from the start. Gaze is just an ignorant interpretation of another takings of the base word taraf. If you keep your gaze at something you have an intention.
Even the source you have shared goes against your understanding.
No it does not.
In my humble opinion, the word 'edges/borders/parts/portions' makes much more sense in the above verse than 'intention'. But you are free to disagree.
It does not make sense at all other than justify a senseless ritual. KEEP COMMUNION FOCUS OF THE DAY, what is wrong in that interpretation? It means to keep your deeds to what God is teaching.
I am sorry to say, if this is your approach to translate the words of God then, with respect, I would not like to continue to discuss this matter with you any further. I hope you consider and understand my reason for not wanting to engage for further discussion regarding this matter.
It seems to be much better for your are sold to the traditional knowledge of Arabic and the understanding of it all instead of criticizing every little bit. Or you perhaps believe in ritualistic neanderthal religion with primitive worship practices?
11111 And to each your Master will recompense their works. He is expert in what they do.
11112 So assist straightly as you were commanded, and those who have repented with you, and do not transgress. He is Seer over what you do...
11113 ...and do not lean towards those who have wronged else you will incur the Fire; and you will not have besides God any allies, and you will not be victorious...
11114 ...and keep the communion in focus of the day, and the near part of the night the good deeds take away the bad. This is a regard to those who pay attention.
11115 ...and be patient, for God does not waste the reward of the good doers.What is it so bloody hard to infer from the context despite not with a perfect rendition. It talks about keeping to what Muhammad and those who keep communion have been taught.
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You seem to have a very short memory. I discarded all translations/interpretations declaring them faulty including the one of the runners of this forum. Only because they violate the academic principles of translation.
Okay. But even in academic research and to be able to move forward and also considered you have faulty and biased sources you have to apply critical thinking in validating what you read, particularly when they do not make any sense.
Anyway, please disengage from the discussion if you are going to be arrogant and stubbornly adhering to what you already know.
But I had already guessed as much that most people are not ready to challenge their rituals and senseless behavior.
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20130 ...so be patient to what they are saying and glorify with praise (of) your Master before when (you) approach the rising of the sun, and at (your) approach (of) its setting, and at the coming of the night you shall glorify and with intentions of the day perhaps you may be content...
I translated it perfectly viable based on the words usage in other contexts. That some fool could not interpret it right in the past is not my fault. I told you that you would use 20130 against me because I have not been able to deliver a working translation.
First word is second person, masculine, signular imperative verb. A pronoun in a verb refers to a certainly known/identified person.
It is a prepositional phrase followed by two possessive phrases; and I hope you know that prepositional phrases relate to some other element of the sentence. First you have to determine to which visible or elided element it relates before interpreting the sentence.
Can you demonstrate or narrate how you personally "glorify with praise of your Master".
Does means "glorify"? And how do you glorify someone?
- make something appear superior to cause something to seem more pleasant, important, or desirable than is actually the case
- extol somebody or something to praise somebody or something highly
- religion praise deity to worship or offer praise to a deity
Microsoft? Encarta? 2006. ? 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
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Peace,
20129 And had it not been for a word already given by your Lord, they would have been held to account immediately.
20130 So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and at the approach of the night - you shall glorify - and with the result of the day perhaps you may be content...
20131 ...and not crave with your eyes what We have bestowed upon some couples from them; the flower of the worldly life; so as to test them in it; and the provision of your Lord is better and more lasting.Please observe that 20130 and 20131 are supposed to be read in conjunction with each other. You do something in that day which results in something that you do not crave with your eyes what we have bestowed upon some couples from them
Green It is this fallacy you have that you never try any alternative interpretation based on the literal quality of the phrases instead of by looking at the word by word with the nailed-into-your-brain interpretation of the individual words.
I just about know noticed that it says ataraf in 20130 which obviously can mean the results after you had intentions for the day.
As far as I can understand these phrases they talk about that if you keep your focus on the deeds of the day you will see how blessed you are compared to those you were jealous of, in the light of God.
Anyway, whatever you say about 20130, the traditional interpretation does not make any sense either. It does not relate to a ritualistic prayer but to understanding the importance of doing things right by glorifying God.
11112 So assist straightly as you were commanded, and those who have repented with you, and do not transgress. He is Seer over what you do.
11113 And do not lean towards those who have wronged else you will incur the Fire; and you will not have besides God any allies, and you will not be victorious.
11114 And keep communion intention of the day and by nightfall the good takes away the bad.
11115 And be patient, for God does not waste the reward of the good doers.
11116 If only there was from the previous generations a people with wisdom who prohibited corruption on the earth, except the few that We saved of them. And those who were wicked followed the enjoyment they were in, and they were criminal.
11117 And your Lord will not destroy the towns unjustly, while its people are good doers.
11118 And if your Lord had wished, He could have made all the people one nation, but they still would have continued to disagree.I still find it to mean that you should keep to communion so that these good deeds will make the bad ones not show. Despite what you argue about my linguistic ability can you not just see the context where the verse is located and see that the salat talks about keeping to what God has decreed on them instead of indulging in corruption???
And sorry I fail to keep patient when you are disputing what I tell you from my own observation. It is just that interpretation of a language cannot only be by word-by-word translation or adhereing to what people have said AFTER THE DISCOURSE WAS COMPOSED but you need to look upon the whole context to see whether it makes sense.
One final time take a look upon 20130 and consider this experimental translation
20130 So be patient to what they are saying and praise the glory of your Lord before with the approach of the rising of the sun, and before with the approach of its setting and by the approach of the night you shall glorify and perhaps you may be content (with) the outcome of the day...
20131 ...and not crave with your eyes what We have bestowed upon some couples from them; the flower of the worldly life; so as to test them in it; and the provision of your Lord is better and more lasting.I experimented by switching around the words completely based on the alternative interpretation of taraf.
Green Notice it says glorify the grace of your Master in 20130 while in the following glorify it does not say glorify the praise. . Glorify the praise can be similar to of showing appreciation of the blessings to you. This is why it says that you may crave with your eyes anymore what God bestowed of wealth upon others, i.e. jealousy. Do you not see that it may ring a bell even if I fail to accurately translate it?
I fail to understand why you cannot philosophize in these patterns or is the traditional interpretation holy to you?
Secondly I cannot find any timed rituals whatsoever in this narration, even if my translation leaves much to improve.
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Can you demonstrate or narrate how you personally "glorify with praise of your Master".
Aww come on do not get stuck up on formalities.
Glorify the praise of your Master. I would take it as to see the good things in life that God does for you that you may feel more content by the evening when the night falls... EVERY DAY, instead of craving what others have and you not. Because being an ally of God is way better than having all the wealth in the world.
Have faith
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20130 So be patient to what they are saying and praise the glory of your Lord before with the approach of the rising of the sun, and before with the approach of its setting and by the approach of the night you shall glorify and perhaps you may be content (with) the outcome of the day...
20131 ...and not crave with your eyes what We have bestowed upon some couples from them; the flower of the worldly life; so as to test them in it; and the provision of your Lord is better and more lasting.I experimented by switching around the words completely based on the alternative interpretation of taraf.
Green Notice it says glorify the grace of your Master in 20130 while in the following glorify it does not say glorify the praise. . Glorify the praise can be similar to of showing appreciation of the blessings to you. This is why it says that you may crave with your eyes anymore what God bestowed of wealth upon others, i.e. jealousy. Do you not see that it may ring a bell even if I fail to accurately translate it?
The sentence in 20131 is a new sentence on subject different from the previous. The evidence is that it has verb in Jussive Mood with emphatic Noon that renders it future meanings.
Take note, you the Messenger should not henceforth lay your eyes-afford preferential attention for those groups of them polytheists whom Our Majesty has given to enjoy with
Flowery splendor of the life of lowly world. The objective is that We might subject them to trial in it the splendorous life.
Let it be known that the sustenance of your Sustainer Lord is the best and ever lasting. -
One final time take a look upon 20130 and consider this experimental translation
20130 So be patient to what they are saying and praise the glory of your Lord before with the approach of the rising of the sun, and before with the approach of its setting and by the approach of the night you shall glorify and perhaps you may be content (with) the outcome of the day...
This is not experiment; it is merely the traditional style.
Grand Qur'aan has the most economical text. Why the same verb is repeated? is plural not singular
Why is it in genitive case while all other time zones mentioned are in accusative case? Unless you study the meanings of case endings and relationship of prepositional phrases, your perception and resultant translation will be worse than the traditional sources.
Ponder over two points I mentioned and again experiment to translate it.
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Peace,
If that is your interpretation then take it as that.
But I take that 20131 is a continuous sentence beginning in 20130.
AndI take it as being content with what you have when you realize the wonders of God as you get closer to The Master.
Take note, you the Messenger
This is a false insertion from you that is not there in the original passage. Where do you want to take this discussion; about your idolatry of the prophet?
20130 So be patient to what they are saying and praise the glory of your Lord by the rising of the sun, and by its setting, and at the approach of the night you shall glorify and with the result of the day perhaps (1) you may be content...
20131 ...and not crave with your eyes what We have bestowed upon some couples from them; the flower of the worldly life; so as to test them in it; and the (1) provision of your Lord is better and more lasting.
20132 And instruct your family to the communion, and be patient for it. We (1) do not ask you for provision, for (1) We provide for you. And the ending will be for righteousness.Green Can you not look at the context please and ignore my sometimes lacking experimental translations. You can clearly see through the distortion of my unfinished translations and the one done by Monotheist translation that there is a certain thinking upon all that your Master does for you that perhaps you may be content by the end of the day when you consider that. It is called to infer based on the context the real translation of a verse before attempting to accurately bring it into translation. This is why I challenged the traditional interpretation of 'taraf' from the start because it simply does not make any sense. At the very least it does not speak of a ritualistic prayer.
Have faith
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Why is it in genitive case while all other time zones mentioned are in accusative case? Unless you study the meanings of case endings and relationship of prepositional phrases, your perception and resultant translation will be worse than the traditional sources.
I know some about case endings, but I do not understand why it would make a difference in this case. If anything it helps bring a better translations if you should try to keep in mind what your Master does for you every night if you take a habit of keeping God in glorification throughout the day from dawn to dusk.
The original message intended by the author (God) only comes forth with a more accurate interpretation.
Ponder over two points I mentioned and again experiment to translate it.
Well, you can modify my translation a little, but your insight only improves the rendition. Cheers.
If you would use your talent for scriptural language to aid the cause of God instead of keeping to justifying rituals then we would be more successful.
EDIT A relevant question is the understanding of subh to our little venture here. But it occurs quite often when it comes to give Supremacy and Oneness to the power of God.
Have faith
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The language itself...
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The language itself...
It is no argument, you have to state the reason why you take it as such.
Simple connector/conjunction Waw-
Its function is to join two related nouns, verbs, nominal sentences or two verbal sentences. Their features should match. It is frequently used in compound sentences two sentences/independent clauses joined by connector waw for economy of words, as is the case with English "and".
In the case under discussion the verbs of both the sentences do not match. Hence the second sentence is a new one unrelated to the previous but is a discourse coordinator.
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I don't care what you say because I have a translation right there and it fits the context. Why would I regard some verb. "Wa" is a word just like English 'and', and the sentence is a continuation of the same context as the previous one. Why complicate things when the sentence is true through the combination of words?
It talks about being content with what you have after seeing what God does for you and not be jealous. What is the problem?
Is it because I happen to draw away focus from your Pagan ritualism?
Anyway, my intention is to pinpoint the right definition for salat and not argue about this. And then I do not mean Time-bound protocol or "contact prayer".
Please stop posting here for now.
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Only because you have no rational answer and argument in support of your views?
No, because I am busy thinking about other things. My thinking is on salat at the moment and not some random verse speaking about seeing what you have and not be jealous of others.
Besides, I am not required to prove anything to you.
Peace
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No, because I am busy thinking about other things. My thinking is on salat at the moment and not some random verse speaking about seeing what you have and not be jealous of others.
Besides, I am not required to prove anything to you.
Peace
Perhaps this is is the requirement of decorum, manners and discipline of public discussion forums.