Age of the Universe in the Quran?
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Age based on WMAP
NASA's Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) project estimates the age of the universe to be
(13.7 0.2) 109 years.
That is, the universe is about 13.7 billion years old, with an uncertainty of 200 million years. However, this age is based on the assumption that the project's underlying model is correct; other methods of estimating the age of the universe could give different ages.
This measurement is made by using the location of the first acoustic peak in the microwave background power spectrum to determine the size of the decoupling surface (size of universe at the time of recombination). The light travel time to this surface (depending on the geometry used) yields a pretty good age for the universe. Assuming the validity of the models used to determine this age, the residual accuracy yields a margin of error near one percent.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe
If the above method is accurate, then the Quran is wrong.
Is this really what these verses are saying???? i doubt it.
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i agree with phoenix1 this is not age of the universe but time dilation.check this out
Time Dilation
Surprisingly, Moslems use another formula to reveal that angels indeed accelerate up to the speed of light. Their Koran states another verse in which angels traveling at a certain velocity, appear to experience slower time than humans. But this agrees with Einsteins theory of special relativity, which says that a faster moving object appears to experience slower time. Moslems use Einsteins theory of relativity with this verse from the Koran to assert that angels indeed accelerate up to the speed of lightThe angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day, the measure of which is fifty thousand years.
Here angels will experience 1 day while humans will measure it as 50,000 years (time vs. time and not time vs. distance as the previous lunar verse). However, according to the theory of special relativity, given this time difference (time dilation), we can calculate the speed at which that object traveled. We can verify if those angels really accelerate up to the speed of light, as claimed by Moslems, or not. Moslems say that since this claim can be verified in two minutes, then there is absolutely no need for blind faith
It was not a Moslem but a Jew, Albert Einstein, who defined the famous theory of special relativity. According to this theory, space, time, and mass are not constant values; they change depending on the speed of that moving object. As the velocity of that object increases its time appears to elapse slower. Mathematically it is
(Where to is the time measured for a mover by a mover; t is the time measured for a mover by a stationary frame; v is the velocity of the mover relative to the stationary observer)
to is the time experienced by angels (1 day).
t is the time as measured by humans (50,000 lunar years x12 lunar months/lunar year x 27.321661 days/lunar month).
v is the velocity of angels in this case (which we intend to calculate and then compare to the known speed of light).
c is the known speed of light 299792.458 km/s, the speed of light in vacuum.
From the above equation we can solve for the unknown velocity
So lets insert the Moslem claims and see if their angels really accelerate up to the speed of light or not. Insert dates from this verse The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day, the measure of which is fifty thousand years into the formula
v = 299792.4579999994 km / s
This time dilation (time difference) shows that angels indeed accelerate up to the speed of light (slightly less than c since they have mass). This can't be a coincidence because this is the same speed calculated from the previous lunar verse.
Moslems ask how could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have figured out Time Dilation and the core of Relativity?
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Cool siki, thanx...
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here is the relative age of universe and earth in quran , check it out
General Relativity
Moslems believe that Paradise and Hell are both much bigger and much more massive than Earth (but still much smaller than God's Throne). The theory of general relativity says that time should pass slower near an object more massive than Earth (in a stronger gravitational field). So according to general relativity, time should pass in Paradise/Hell much slower than on Earth. Moslems say that this is what Allah says. It is stated in the Quran that 1 day in Paradise/Hell measures a 1000 years on EarthThey challenge you to bring forth that torture and Allah will not break His promise; a day of your Lord is like a thousand years of what you count.
Here God promises those who do not believe in Hell and punishment that each day of their torture in Hell will measure a thousand years on Earth. So according to the Quran, time passes faster on Earth than in Paradise/Hell. But this agrees with the theory of general relativity which says that time passes slower near bigger mass. Paradise and Hell are much more massive than Earth and time should pass there much slower than on Earth.
Christians believe that God created the universe in 6 earthly days and rested on the 7th. Moslems believe that 6 days passed at God's Throne but we experienced 13.5 billion years on Earth
Moslems believe that God is not bound to His Throne; rather He created it and set it as a reference. The Quran says that God's Throne is even wider than the whole universe; so how about the mass of God's Throne? God's Throne is much more massive than Earth. Time should pass there much slower than on Earth. The theory of general relativity explains why time passes slower at God's Throne than on Earth. General relativity explains why 6 days passed at God's Throne but we measured it as 13.5 billion years (that is each day at God's Throne measures around 2.25 billion years on Earth).
Science says that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and that the universe is 13.5 billion years old. This places the age of Earth at one third the age of the universe. Moslems say that this is what Allah says. The Quran says that God counted 6 days since the creation of the universe but God only counted 2 days since the creation of Earth
We created the heavens and the Earth and all what's between them in six days, and We were not touched by fatigue.
Say "Is it that you deny Him who created the Earth in two days? And you claim others to be equal to Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds."
So far, God counted 2 days for Earth and 6 days for the whole universe. The Quran clearly states that the age of Earth is one third the age of the universe . Moslems ask how could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have figured out the age of Earth relative to the age of the universe?
(The Christian Bible puts the creation of Earth on day one; making the age of Earth equal to the age of the universe)
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here is the speed of light in quran
Speed of Light a constant at 299792.5 km/s
299,792.458 km/s is the speed of light in vacuum, that is, outside matter and gravitational fields. However according to Einstein's theory of General Relativity, the velocity of light appears to vary with the intensity of the gravitational field, that is, this is not the speed of light inside gravitational fields.
1400 years ago it was stated in the Koran (Quran, the book of Islam) that angels travel in one day the same distance that the moon travels in 1000 lunar years, that is, 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day. Today we know that if we remove the Earth-moon system from the gravitational field of the sun all observers will see the speed of light outside gravitational fields to be equivalent to 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day.
Moslems (Muslims) believe that angels are low density creatures, and that God created them originally from light. They move at any speed from zero up to the speed of light. It is the angels who carry out God's orders. Those angels take their orders from a Preserved Tablet somewhere in outer space and not from God's Throne. They commute to and from this Preserved Tablet to get their orders from God. In the following verse, the Quran is describing how angels travel when they commute to and from this Tablet. And the speed at which they commute to and from this Tablet turned out to be the known speed of light(Allah) Rules the cosmic affair from the heavens to the Earth. Then this affair travels to Him a distance in one day, at a measure of one thousand years of what you count.
It is the angels who carryout these orders (see why Arabic wording refers to distance at footnote ). Hence in 1 day, the angels will travel a distance of 1000 years of what they counted. Those people back then followed the lunar calendar and counted 12 lunar months each year. These months are related to the moon and not related to the sun. Since this verse is referring to distance, then Allah is saying that angels travel in one day the same distance that the moon travels in 12000 lunar orbits. Outside gravitational fields this speed turned out to be the known speed of light (the Preserved Tablet is outside gravitational fields)
The Earth-moon system covers an angle ? around the sun each cycle (sidereal lunar month). Without the gravitational field of the sun the lunar orbit cannot change direction but rather floats in a straight path to distant stars. But due to the gravitational field of the sun, the lunar obit is changing direction every cycle by this angle ? with respect to distant stars.
Original Direction to Stars
Lunar Orbit
The lunar orbit changes direction with respect to stars by the same angle it orbits the sun.
?
?
Sun
New DirectionEvery point in this orbit has a certain magnitude and a certain direction. As the moon heads to the sun it speeds up, and as it heads away from the sun it slows down. This creates a sector of the orbit where the moon is speeding up. But as the Earth goes around the sun, the position of the sun relative to Earth with respect to stars is changing. This makes the sector where the moon is speeding up move forward inside the orbit such that it points to the sun again. Hence the entire orbit changes direction with respect to stars by the same angle it orbits the sun (twist). This means that the orbit is influenced by a net rotational force (like torque around Earth). As the distance to the sun increases to infinity, ? decreases to zero and this force decreases to zero. When we vectorially remove the energy gained from this force we can calculate the total energy and hence the length of the lunar orbit outside gravitational fields.
Time
This table below shows the lunar month and the Earth day in both sidereal system (with respect to stars) and synodic (with respect to sun)Period
Synodic (sun)
Sidereal (stars)Earth day t
24 hours = 86400 sec
23 h 56 min 4.0906 sec = 86164.0906 secLunar Month T
29.53059 days
27.321661 days = 655.71986 hoursNASA uses the sidereal system (with respect to stars) for defining the lunar orbit, lunar month (T), the Earth day (t) and for calculating the velocity of the moon. Similarly, Moslems use the sidereal system (with respect to stars) in their proof For the Earth-moon system to be outside gravitational fields then the distance to the sun has to increase. And as the distance to the sun increases the sun becomes just another star; that is the synodic lunar month becomes equal to the sidereal lunar month, the synodic day becomes equal to the sidereal day.
Distance
So the formula as proposed by Allah isDistance traveled by angels in one day = 12000 x Distance traveled by moon during one orbit
And since Distance = Velocity x Time
? C t = 12000 V' T
Where
C
Is the velocity of angels, which we intend to calculate and then compare to the known speed of light (no external forces, no acceleration, no deceleration).t
Is the sidereal terrestrial day defined as the time of one rotation of the Earth about its axis (with respect to stars); i.e. 23 hr, 56 min, 4.0906 sec = 86164.0906sec.V'
Is the inertial velocity of the moon (no external forces, no acceleration, no deceleration); which we intend to calculate.T
Is the sidereal lunar month defined as the time of one revolution of the moon around Earth (with respect to the stars); i.e. 27.321661 days = 655.71986 hours.Velocity of the Moon
The velocity of the moon is not constant. NASA measured the spontaneous velocity of the moon at various instances throughout its orbit. These measurements show that the velocity of the moon varies considerably (from 3470 km/hr up to 3873 km/hr); which means that the moon accelerates and then decelerates continuously. The average lunar velocity is Vavg = 3682 km/hr. Most astronomy textbooks calculate this value manually by the following equivalent circle methodVelocity = Distance / Time = Length of lunar orbit / Time
As the Earth goes around the sun, the whole moons orbit travels along with Earth. This makes the moon travel in a much longer spiral path; But this is not the length of the lunar orbit relative to Earth. The lunar orbit relative to Earth is an ellipse having an average radius R = 384267 km. So, the length (L) of this elliptical orbit relative to Earth is
L = 2 R
V = L / T ? V = 2 R / T
Substituting R = 384267 km and T = sidereal lunar month = 655.71986 hr
V = (2 x 3.l4l593 x 384267) / 655.71986 = 3682.092 km/hr
Although this velocity is correct relative to Earth, this velocity is under the influence of the gravitational pull of the sun. We can vectorially calculate the velocity of the moon relative to Earth without the gravitational pull of the sun Since the Earth and the moon orbit the sun together, then the velocity vector of the entire orbit around Earth has to have the same direction as the direction of Earth around the sun at the end of each cycle (otherwise they will diverge)
?
V' = V cosine ?
Vector
in isolated systemV sine ?
?
Components of compounded vector V = vector in the isolated Earth-moon system (Vcos?) plus vector acquired from the gravitational field of the sun (Vsine?)
Original Direction
to Stars
Vector VEarth
New Direction after one cycleIn the isolated Earth-moon system (no sun), the moon's isolated vector remains in the original direction with respect to stars. But in the compounded system, the moon's compounded vector changes direction by angle ? with respect to stars each cycle around Earth. This means that the energy for the moon's velocity (V) is the vectorial sum of the intrinsic energy of Earth-moon system (kinetic energy of Earth's spin transferred to lunar orbit by ocean friction; see how below) plus the energy acquired from the gravitational field of the sun (see isolated systems at footnote ).
V' = V cos?
Where V' is the velocity of the moon relative to Earth without sun's gravitational pull; V is the velocity of the moon relative to Earth with sun's gravitational pull; and ? is the angle traveled by the Earth-moon system around the sun during this lunar month.
Speed of Angels
So finally we can calculate the speed of angels in vacuum and compare it to the known speed of light in vacuum 299792.458 km/sC t = 12000 V' T
And V' = V cos?
C t = 12000 V cos? T
C = (12000 V cos? T) / t
Substituting the NASA sidereal values of the periods T and t (from above table); ? is 26.9295 degrees and could be manually calculated at this footnote ; cos? = 0.8915645, we arrive at the velocity of angels as claimed in the Koran
C = (12000 x 3682.092 x 0.8915645 x 655.71986) / 86164.0906
C = 299792.5 km/s
Exactly the known speed of light!!!
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Age of the Universe
There are at least 3 ways that the age of the Universe can be estimated. I will describeThe age of the chemical elements.
The age of the oldest star clusters.
The age of the oldest white dwarf stars.The Age of the Elements
The age of the chemical elements can be estimated using radioactive decay to determine how old a given mixture of atoms is. The most definite ages that can be determined this way are ages since the solidification of rock samples. When a rock solidifies, the chemical elements often get separated into different crystalline grains in the rock. For example, sodium and calcium are both common elements, but their chemical behaviours are quite different, so one usually finds sodium and calcium in different grains in a differentiated rock. Rubidium and strontium are heavier elements that behave chemically much like sodium and calcium. Thus rubidium and strontium are usually found in different grains in a rock. But Rb-87 decays into Sr-87 with a half-life of 47 billion years. And there is another isotope of strontium, Sr-86, which is not produced by any rubidium decay. The isotope Sr-87 is called radiogenic, because it can be produced by radioactive decay, while Sr-86 is non-radiogenic. The Sr-86 is used to determine what fraction of the Sr-87 was produced by radioactive decay. This is done by plotting the Sr-87/Sr-86 ratio versus the Rb-87/Sr-86 ratio. When a rock is first formed, the different grains have a wide range of Rb-87/Sr-86 ratios, but the Sr-87/Sr-86 ratio is the same in all grains because the chemical processes leading to differentiated grains do not separate isotopes. After the rock has been solid for several billion years, a fraction of the Rb-87 will have decayed into Sr-87. Then the Sr-87/Sr-86 ratio will be larger in grains with a large Rb-87/Sr-86 ratio. Do a linear fit ofSr-87/Sr-86 = a + b*(Rb-87/Sr-86)
and then the slope term is given by
b = 2x - 1with x being the number of half-lives that the rock has been solid. See the talk.origins isochrone FAQ for more on radioactive dating.
When applied to rocks on the surface of the Earth, the oldest rocks are about 3.8 billion years old. When applied to meteorites, the oldest are 4.56 billion years old. This very well determined age is the age of the Solar System. See the talk.origins age of the Earth FAQ for more on the age of the solar system.
When applied to a mixed together and evolving system like the gas in the Milky Way, no great precision is possible. One problem is that there is no chemical separation into grains of different crystals, so the absolute values of the isotope ratios have to be used instead of the slopes of a linear fit. This requires that we know precisely how much of each isotope was originally present, so an accurate model for element production is needed. One isotope pair that has been used is rhenium and osmium in particular Re-187 which decays into Os-187 with a half-life of 40 billion years. It looks like 15% of the original Re-187 has decayed, which leads to an age of 8-11 billion years. But this is just the mean formation age of the stuff in the Solar System, and no rhenium or osmium has been made for the last 4.56 billion years. Thus to use this age to determine the age of the Universe, a model of when the elements were made is needed. If all the elements were made in a burst soon after the Big Bang, then the age of the Universe would be to = 8-11 billion years. But if the elements are made continuously at a constant rate, then the mean age of stuff in the Solar System is
(to + tSS)/2 = 8-11 Gyr
which we can solve for the age of the Universe giving
to = 11.5-18 GyrFrom the link posted above.
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http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe
If the above method is accurate, then the Quran is wrong.
Is this really what these verses are saying???? i doubt it.
Not at all, there are a few methods to measure the age of universe. One of those is to measure the oldest object in the universe, only if within our measurable distance. Don't forget the universe is so big unless you can guarantee our technology can reach the edge of universe.
Also, no religion has ever given a single clue regarding the age of universe except Quran. 18 billion years (Quran) vs 13 billion years (human), the answer calculated by Muslims in reference to Quran is still valid because it has a bigger value than our estimated one, unless the Quran told us <13 billion years then it obviously wrong. Anyone could have come up with a wild guess but Quran is the closest.
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Also, no religion has ever given a single clue regarding the age of universe except Quran. 18 billion years (Quran) vs 13 billion years (human), the answer calculated by Muslims in reference to Quran is still valid because it has a bigger value than our estimated one, unless the Quran told us <13 billion years then it obviously wrong. Anyone could have come up with a wild guess but Quran is the closest.
It's actually 18 Billion years (human) vs 13 billion years (another human).
There's no direct statement whatsoever in the Quran that said "The Age of this Universe so far is 18 billion years".
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It's actually 18 Billion years (human) vs 13 billion years (another human).
There's no direct statement whatsoever in the Quran that said "The Age of this Universe so far is 18 billion years".
Yes brother you're right because we don't know which layer of heaven the angels ascend to.