Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. General Issues / Questions
  3. General Issues / Questions
  4. Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity

Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
595 Posts 42 Posters 52.8k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • M Offline
    M Offline
    Man_of_Faith
    wrote on last edited by
    #463

    Why is it in genitive case while all other time zones mentioned are in accusative case? Unless you study the meanings of case endings and relationship of prepositional phrases, your perception and resultant translation will be worse than the traditional sources.

    I know some about case endings, but I do not understand why it would make a difference in this case. If anything it helps bring a better translations if you should try to keep in mind what your Master does for you every night if you take a habit of keeping God in glorification throughout the day from dawn to dusk.

    The original message intended by the author (God) only comes forth with a more accurate interpretation.

    Ponder over two points I mentioned and again experiment to translate it.

    Well, you can modify my translation a little, but your insight only improves the rendition. Cheers.

    If you would use your talent for scriptural language to aid the cause of God instead of keeping to justifying rituals then we would be more successful.

    EDIT A relevant question is the understanding of subh to our little venture here. But it occurs quite often when it comes to give Supremacy and Oneness to the power of God.

    Have faith

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • M Offline
      M Offline
      Mazhar
      wrote on last edited by
      #464

      So be patient to what they are saying

      Allah the Exalted is ordering whom "to be patient"?

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • M Offline
        M Offline
        Mazhar
        wrote on last edited by
        #465

        But I take that 20131 is a continuous sentence beginning in 20130.

        But you cannot justify this take. Have you any argument to support your contention?

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • M Offline
          M Offline
          Man_of_Faith
          wrote on last edited by
          #466

          The language itself...

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • M Offline
            M Offline
            Mazhar
            wrote on last edited by
            #467

            The language itself...

            It is no argument, you have to state the reason why you take it as such.

            Simple connector/conjunction Waw-

            Its function is to join two related nouns, verbs, nominal sentences or two verbal sentences. Their features should match. It is frequently used in compound sentences two sentences/independent clauses joined by connector waw for economy of words, as is the case with English "and".

            In the case under discussion the verbs of both the sentences do not match. Hence the second sentence is a new one unrelated to the previous but is a discourse coordinator.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • M Offline
              M Offline
              Man_of_Faith
              wrote on last edited by
              #468

              I don't care what you say because I have a translation right there and it fits the context. Why would I regard some verb. "Wa" is a word just like English 'and', and the sentence is a continuation of the same context as the previous one. Why complicate things when the sentence is true through the combination of words?

              It talks about being content with what you have after seeing what God does for you and not be jealous. What is the problem?

              Is it because I happen to draw away focus from your Pagan ritualism?

              Anyway, my intention is to pinpoint the right definition for salat and not argue about this. And then I do not mean Time-bound protocol or "contact prayer".

              Please stop posting here for now.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • M Offline
                M Offline
                Mazhar
                wrote on last edited by
                #469

                Please stop posting here for now.

                Only because you have no rational answer and argument in support of your views?

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  Man_of_Faith
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #470

                  Only because you have no rational answer and argument in support of your views?

                  No, because I am busy thinking about other things. My thinking is on salat at the moment and not some random verse speaking about seeing what you have and not be jealous of others.

                  Besides, I am not required to prove anything to you.

                  Peace

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Mazhar
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #471

                    No, because I am busy thinking about other things. My thinking is on salat at the moment and not some random verse speaking about seeing what you have and not be jealous of others.

                    Besides, I am not required to prove anything to you.

                    Peace

                    Perhaps this is is the requirement of decorum, manners and discipline of public discussion forums.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • A Offline
                      A Offline
                      Armanaziz
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #472

                      Peace armanaziz,

                      It is your loss. Most people cannot see the truth even if you shovel it in their faces.

                      ) Thanks for your opinion. Just a simple request - please stop shoveling things up my face. I'll explain by the end of the post.

                      Red Can you even realize that if you keep communion in an assembly you do the definition that Mazhar told about, because you honor the decree of God.

                      Alhamdulillah. I realize that very well In Sha Allah. The question is whether you realize that. And if you do, then what drives you to preach a narrower meaning of the word while the generally accepted wider meaning gives so much more.

                      To understand salaat as "invocation of respect and glorification (of Allah)" does involve unity when Allah mandates unity... it implies seclusion where Allah mandates seclusion... it involves separation where Allah mandates separation. Even for someone who is not familiar with the Qur'an, "establishing respect" for our Creator is the basic requirement to live a morally dignified life. It is because of our respect for our Master that we cannot accept suicide as a legitimate act - it is because of "establishing respect" for our Creator we honor our parents (because they are gifts from our Master) - it is because of "establishing respect" for our Creator that we strive to do good and avoid the evil (because we honor the gift of "life&quot. In fact per my humble understanding the entire system of human ethics and morality stems from "establishing respect" (aakimus salaat) for our Creator - the Master of the universe. And that's why salaat is such a centerpiece in our deen.

                      Neither Mazhar, nor me is suggesting that the authentic meaning of the word salaat implies "ritual prayer". The concept of ritual prayers is only superficially linked to "establishing respect" in the sense that the followers of Abrahamic religion traditionally practice some form of ritual as a "formal expression / invocation" of their respect for the Master of the universe. Dressing up in a white gown is not synonymous to being a doctor - if you understand what I mean. But you keep on arguing in favor of your fanciful translation insisting again and again on "salaat is not ritual prayer"... well "salaat is not ritual prayer" is agreed and understood - but that does not mean it has to be "unity". In fact unity - without clarifying with whom, when and why - can be a very questionable directive. You seem to be on a mission to prove all forms of formal rituals as illegitimate and to prove your point you are ready to twist and turn the words of Allah in any way that suits you. This is a very objectionable motive and I sincerely doubt any useful insight will come out of a research of such per-conceived motive.

                      Think of a bacon-lover who is on a mission to prove that Qur'an does not prohibit the flesh of swine... by twisting and turning the meanings of Arabic words. His first move could be to claim, "khinjeer" does not mean swine - it means "hippopotamus". And he can actually list all the verses with the word "khinjeer" to show that "hippopotamus" also fits in nicely. Do you now see the absurdity of the approach?

                      So you are going to give merit to people who have spent the past 1000 years in corrupting the language instead interpreting according to their desires and wishful thinking?

                      Corrupting? Are you sure? You are now bringing accusation against generations and generations of people - so you better know what you are talking about. Whereas Mazhar has even brought example from pre-Qur'an days to show how the word salaat was used and understood - and it is consistent with the generally accepted understanding of "invocation of respect / glorification" - on what basis do you suggest there has been a corruption? Have you produced a single historical document to show that "salaat" originally meant "unity" in some time back in the history? If the original state is not proven- then where is the proof of corruption? Do you understand bringing false and baseless acquisition can amount to a sin?

                      It is also not merely "trial-and -error" but I actually recycle whatever I have of the language in logical and reasonable ways.

                      If that's what you want to call it - then fine. I give absolutely no merit to your "recycling" when it comes to understanding basic word meanings.

                      Look brother - I have no intention to make this an argument which will go round and round without end. Since we are not agreeing on the basic methodology on how we should read and understand the meaning of a word - I don't see any hope of us agreeing on specific word meanings. I am just clarifying why I do not accept your analysis so that you do not bring this issue in other threads and keep on trying to convince me to accept your research (this is what I call shoveling in my face). I try to understand the Qur'an like it has been sent down in plain Arabic - respecting the sanctity of Arabic language - while you are trying to "solve" Qur'an like a puzzle - as if it is some form of cryptography - starting from your per-conceived notion that there cannot be any implicit or explicit support for any form of ritual in Qur'an. Which method will guide to the correct understanding - let's leave that to our Master to decide.

                      May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

                      Regards,
                      Arman

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        Man_of_Faith
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #473

                        Peace,

                        After various criticism, even from myself, and I could not completely defend it mostly against myself, and I decided to scrap part of what I said and start off a bit from scratch about salat. I said that it meant communion, and in ways it does, but the way I presented the information was incomprehensible for people and I agree it would make better sense if I used a more straight-forward word and telling word. So hence I choose to bring out the heavy hammer and represent to you since no one took my earlier proposition seriously and no one could comprehend what I wanted to say (not even PM lessons)

                        M o F "Salat" proposition v. 1.1 part I
                        The teaching/preaching/lesson

                        As you all probably know; Arabic cannot always be translated by one-word definition into English so I took the liberty of choosing a variety of related words to use. The meaning is somewhat the same for those three words put in various linguistic uses.

                        I have completely discarded the belief of salat as a ritual and understood that it is something as laughably simple as a lesson or teaching with AL-Salat. There remains minor issues with relevant passages, but only my own interpretation difficulty and I have in no way any problem at falsify the notion of salat as ritualistic prayer. 443, 56 and 2458 are examples of verses that are beyond my comprehension still, but by the gist I have still enough weight to discard that they would anyway talk about a ritual. I can say what they talk about loosely, but I cannot interpret them, yet, as to give an accurate translation.
                        I am not sure how long I will be able to continue this lesson because it is not intended that I am going to spend entire nights on these projects, but I will try not to be too eager at the expense of my health and quality of my analysis.

                        God willing, everyone with a pure state of heart will have faith in this after reading it. If not I will continue with further parts and try to counter criticism in a constructive way and perhaps I will find some error myself. We are but humans, aye?

                        I will keep it as streamlined as possible, with each context within a horizontal line so if you would like to skip to another context just go to the next horizontal line. I use my own interpretation of many words although the translation is from Monotheist Group. I will not add any notion of where I differ from the original translation by them because they are now so obvious to me and regular readers of this thread. I usually change believe into faith, but I skip that due to the heavy amount of monotonous work even if I prefer the English word faith. Lord is also Lord here despite that I prefer Master which feels like inclining on a male character (even if old-fashioned it still refers to male, female mistress).

                        Legend over common changes

                        Disbeliever = Opponent
                        Contact Prayer = Teaching/preaching/lesson
                        Remember etc = Regard (with thesaurus words)
                        Authenticating = Truthful (to)
                        Rites = Deeds

                        The contexts within the recitation (Qur'an) are very important for comprehension, so I try to bring a sufficient amount of surrounding passages so the lesson to you is more comprehensive and elaborate. This is tougher work for me, but God willing a more efficient way of gaining trust.


                        22 That is the decree in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the
                        righteous...
                        23 ...those who believe in the unseen and keep the lesson, and
                        from Our provisions to them they spend.
                        24 And those who believe in what was sent down to you, and what
                        was sent down before you, and regarding the Hereafter they are
                        certain.
                        25 These are guided by their Master, and these are the successful
                        ones.
                        26 As for those who oppose, whether you warn them or do not warn
                        them, they will not believe.
                        27 God has sealed their hearts and their ears, and over their eyes are
                        covers. They will incur a great retribution.
                        28 And from the people are those who say ?We believe in God and
                        in the Last Day,? but they are not believers.
                        29 They seek to deceive God and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves without noticing.
                        210 In their hearts is a disease, so God increases their disease, and they will have a painful retribution for what they have denied.
                        211 And if they are told ?Do not make corruption in the land,? they say ?But we are reformers!?
                        212 No, they are the corruptors, but they do not perceive.
                        213 And if they are told ?Believe, as the people have believed,? they say ?Shall we believe like the foolish have believed?? No, they are the foolish but they do not know.
                        214 And if they come across those who have believed, they say ?We believe,? and when they are alone with their devils they say ?We are with you, we were only mocking.?
                        215 God mocks them, and leaves them prolonged in their transgression.
                        216 These are the ones who have purchased straying with guidance; their trade did not profit them, nor were they guided.

                        This first occurrence did not really tell us much of the

                        For 23 and 24 I would opt for using who instead of those who because it sounds dull in a translation and it does likely not make any difference. It is the same kind of people in 21-5 and one can get weird ideas from the normal interpretation.


                        240 O Children of Israel, regard My blessings that I had blessed you with, and fulfill your pledge to Me that I may fulfill My pledge to you, and reverence Me alone.
                        241 And believe in what I have sent down, truthful to what is with you, and do not be the first to oppose it! And do not purchase with My revelations a cheap gain do not take my revelations lightly and of Me you shall be aware.
                        242 And do not confound the truth with falsehood, nor keep the truth secret while you know.
                        243 And keep the lesson, and contribute towards purification, and be humble with those who are humble.
                        244 Do you exhort the people to do good, but forget yourselves, while you are reciting the decree? Do you not comprehend?
                        245 And seek help through patience and through the lesson. It is a difficult thing, but not so for the meek.
                        246 The ones who conceive that they will meet their Lord and that to Him they will return.


                        281 Indeed, whoever gains a sin, and is surrounded by his mistakes; those are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide.
                        282 And those who believe and do good works, they are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.
                        283 And We took the covenant of the Children of Israel ?You shall not serve except God, and do good to your parents, and care about the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and say kind things to the people, and keep the lesson, and contribute towards purification.? But then you turned away, except for a few of you; you were objecting.
                        284 And We had taken a covenant with you ?You shall not spill the blood of each other, nor expel each other from your homes.? And you agreed to this while bearing witness.
                        285 But then here you are killing each other and expelling a group of you from their homes; you act towards them with evil and animosity. And if they come to you as prisoners, you ransom them while it was unlawful for you to expel them! Do you believe in part of the decree and oppose a part? The punishment for those among you who do so is humiliation in this worldly life, and on the Day of Resurrection they will be delivered to the most severe retribution. God is not unaware of what you all do.


                        2109 Many of the adherents of the decree have wished that they could return you to being opponents after your believing, out of envy from their souls after the truth was made clear to them. You shall forgive them and overlook until God brings His will. God is capable of all things.
                        2110 And keep the lesson, and contribute towards purification; and what you bring forth of good for your souls you will find it with God. God is watching what you do.
                        2111 And they said ?None shall enter the Paradise except those who are Jewish or Nazarenes;? this is what they wish! Say ?Bring forth your proof if you are truthful.?
                        2112 No; whoever submits himself to God, while doing good, he will have his recompense with his Lord. There will be no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
                        2113 And the Jews say ?The Nazarenes have no basis,? and the Nazarenes say ?The Jews have no basis,? while they are both reciting the decree! Similarly, those who do not know have said the same thing. God will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection in what they dispute.

                        I have no clue how a ritualistic prayer will bring forth the good for your souls.

                        Green Like I have said before; this is the foundation of faith. Have faith and do good; no more no less, except to keep some commandments which does not include a ritualistic prayer.


                        2122 O Children of Israel, regard My blessings that I had blessed you with, and that I had preferred you over all the worlds.
                        2123 And beware of a Day when no soul can avail another soul, nor will any amendment be accepted from it, nor will any intercession help it; they will not be supported.
                        2124 And Abraham was tested by words from His Lord which he fulfilled. He said ?I will make you a guide for the people.? He said ?And also from my progeny?? He said ?My pledge will not encompass the wicked.?
                        2125 And We have made the assembly to be a model for the people and a faith/confidence, and you shall take from Abrahaman example to keep as a lesson and We entrusted to Abraham and Ishmael ?You shall purify My assembly for those who visit, and those who are devoted, and the respectfully humble.?
                        2126 And Abraham said ?My Lord, make this a faithful land, and provide for its inhabitants of the fruits for whoever believes in God and the Last Day.? He said ?As for he who opposes, I will let him enjoy for a while, then I will force him to the retribution of the Fire. What a miserable destiny!?
                        2127 And as Abraham raised from the assembly its foundations along with Ishmael ?Our Lord accept this from us, You are the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.?
                        2128 ?Our Lord, and let us submit to You and from our progeny a community submitting to You, and show us our deeds, and forgive us; You are the Forgiver, the Merciful.?
                        2129 ?Our Lord, and send among them a messenger from among themselves, that he may recite to them Your revelations and teach them the decree and the wisdom, and purify them. You are the Noble, the Wise.?
                        2130 And who would abandon the creed of Abraham except one who fools himself? We have selected him in this world, and in the Hereafter he is of the righteous.

                        Red It was Abraham's exemplary devotion and execution of God's command that caused him to be an example and not of some ritualistic behavior.


                        2153 O you who believe, seek help through patience and through the lesson, God is with the patient ones...
                        2154 ...and do not say of those who are killed in the cause of God that they are dead; no, they are alive but you do not perceive.
                        2155 And We will test you with some fear and hunger, and a shortage in money and lives and fruits. And give good news to those who are patient.
                        2156 The ones who, when afflicted with adversity, they say ?We are to God and to Him we will return.?
                        2157 For those there will be teachings from their Lord and a mercy, they are the guided ones.

                        Red Need to put a good word for the occurrence of the S - L - W derivative here based on the new light that I give and I consider teachings to be accurate here. They will know what they did not know due to their exemplary patience and devotion.


                        2176 This is because God has sent down the true decree; and those who have disputed about the decree are in far opposition.
                        2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west set your perception towards east or west, but pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the decree, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who keep the lesson, and who contributes towards purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of adversity and hardship and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous.

                        Red This is the reason why I called it communion by the year 1828 definition, but nobody understands this so I changed it into this. It is more foresighted.
                        Blue Right or not; it means not to focus on anything but the subsequent teachings of God mentioned in the passage.


                        Here comes an alleged timing passage so focus carefully here and learn that it does not talk about any ritualistic prayer timing whatsoever. Also consider that I bring in some passages before and after the related passage that you can see that 2238 speaks about the context.

                        2234 And for those of you whose lives are terminated and they leave widows behind, then their widows will have a required interim period of four months and ten. So when they reach their required interim, then there is no sin upon you for what they do with themselves in goodness. And God is Expert to what you do.
                        2235 And there is no sin upon you if you openly propose marriage to the women, or you keep it between yourselves. God knows that you will be thinking about them, but do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to say. And do not finalize the marriage contract until the book interim is reached. And know that God knows what is in your souls, so be aware of Him, and know that God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
                        2236 There is no sin upon you if you divorce the women before having sexual intercourse with them, or before setting the dowry for them. Let them have recompense, the rich according to his means, and the poor according to his means. A recompense in kindness, a responsibility for the good doers.
                        2237 And if you divorce them before having sexual intercourse with them, but you have already set the dowry for them; then you must give half of what you have agreed, unless they forgive or the guardian over the marriage contract forgives. And if you forgive, it is closer to righteousness. And do not forget the favor between you; God is Seer of what you do (so)...
                        2238 ...adhere to the teachings; and the best teaching; and assist God dutifully...
                        2239 ...but if you are fearful considering, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become faithful, then regard God as He has had you know what you did not know.
                        2240 And for those of you whose lives are terminated and they leave widows behind; a testimony to them that they may enjoy for one year without being made to vacate. If they leave then there is no sin upon you for what they do with themselves of goodness; and God is Noble, Wise.
                        2241 And for those divorced to have a recompense is an obligation upon the righteous.
                        2242 It is such that God clarifies for you His revelations that you may comprehend.

                        Blue May not be accurately understood. It is completely misplaced wordings. Perhaps while working or resting, i.e. your time when you can think and reflect.
                        Red Somehow the passages above before and after the passages talk about adhering to the teachings taught by the context and not about some ritualistic prayer. For knowledgeable in Arabic I have not tried to deceive you in 2239, the word is used here which reflects knowledge which is different from teach and lesson etc.

                        I certainly hope that you can understand this little (or rather grave) misinterpretation of the book called Qur'an.


                        2275 Those who consume usury do not rise except as one being influenced by the touch of the devil. That is because they have said ?Trade is the same as usury.? While God has made trade lawful, and He has made usury unlawful. Whoever has received understanding from His Lord and ceases, then he will be forgiven for what was before this and his case will be with God. But whoever returns, then they are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide.
                        2276 God condemns usury, and He grants growth to the charities. And God does not love any wicked sinner.
                        2277 Those who believe and do good works, and keep the lesson and contribute towards purification; they will have their recompense with their Lord and there is no fear over them nor will they grieve.
                        2278 O you who believe, be aware of God and give up what is left from usury, if you are truly believers.


                        338 It was then that Zachariah implored () his Lord; he said ?My Lord, grant me from You a good progeny. You are the hearer of prayer ().?
                        339 So the angels summoned him while he was assisting, preaching, in the temple enclosure ?God gives you glad tidings of John, truthful to the word from God, and a master, and steadfast, and a prophet from the upright.?

                        Green Here you have the word for prayer by the way. I do not condemn what is good; only clarifying misconceptions, about the Pagan trap which polluted what is called Islam.
                        Red The man was preaching about the faith of God and not leading a ritualistic prayer .


                        Here comes the passage that I am honest and say that I cannot so far interpret, however I am certain that it is not part of a ritualistic practice.I just strike-through the words and whistle. It does not affect the notion that salat is teaching/lesson/preaching. Probably it means preaching considered you need to know what you say.

                        443 O you who believe, do not come near the preaching while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless traveling, until you bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving.
                        444 Did you not see those who have been given a portion of the decree? They purchased straying, and they want you to stray from the path.
                        445 And God is fully aware of your enemies; and God is enough as a supporter, and God is enough as a victor.

                        Consider that 444 may quite probably relate to 443.


                        476 Those who believe fight in the cause of God, while those who oppose fight in the cause of evil; so fight the supporters of the devil, for the planning of the devil is weak.
                        477 Did you not see those who were told ?Cease your aggression, and keep the lesson, and contribute towards purification.? But when fighting was decreed for them, a group of them were concerned towards the people as they would have been concerned towards God or even more so. And they said ?Our Lord, why did You decree fighting for us? If only You would delay for us until another time.? Say ?The enjoyment of this world is little, and the Hereafter is far better for those who are aware; you will not be wronged in the least.?

                        You see that the entire fighting thing here is part of the 'salat' word.


                        4100 Whoever emigrates in the cause of God will find in the earth many spoils and a bounty. And whoever leaves his home emigrating to God and His messenger, then is overcome by death; his recompense has fallen to God, and God is Forgiving, Merciful.
                        4101 And if you go forth in the land, then there is no harm that you avoid preaching, if you think that the opponents will try you. The opponents are to you a clear enemy.
                        4102 And if you are with them and you preach to them, then let from a group with you stand among them and let them bring their weapons; and when they have paid homage then let them be behind you; and let a group who has not yet been preached to come and preach for them, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The opponents hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you place down your weapons. And be wary. God has prepared for the opponents a humiliating retribution.
                        4103 Then, if you have attended the lesson, regard God while standing, or sitting, or on your sides. Then, if you are faithful, keep the lesson. Indeed, the lesson for the believers is an appointed decree...
                        4104 ...and do not falter in the pursuit of the remaining group. If you are feeling pain, then they are also feeling pain as you are; and you seek from God what they do not seek. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.

                        I surely hope that you can see a connection between 4100-104 and that alleged Muhammad is moving forth in the land preaching about God and making people join God and the messenger. 4100 talks about coming along, i.e. emigrate.

                        4104 doubtfully talk about warfare, but rather about ignorance and the messenger needs to get a hold on them to inform them about God. Probably the pain for the opponents is because so many people leave the opposing side when they are enlightened and the pain for the messenger are all the assaults on him and those who have faith. Check the continuing few verses for a hint of the whole context.

                        4105 We have revealed to you the true decree that you may give wisdom to the people by that which God has shown you, and do not be an advocate for the treacherous.
                        4106 And seek forgiveness from God; for God is Forgiver, Merciful.
                        4107 And do not argue on behalf of those who betray themselves. God does not love those who are betrayers, sinners.

                        I am actually glad to have solved the mystery of the strange 4102 and with a result that I am quite pleased with.


                        I will fragment this lesson in several because I feel it becomes too long if I continue on the same post. And my internet is an unstable GPRS connection. At least I came to an important passage that has been a tough nut to crack in the pursuit of the ritualistic prayer myth busting.

                        Have faith

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • M Offline
                          M Offline
                          Mazhar
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #474

                          443 O you who believe, do not come near the preaching while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless traveling, until you bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving.

                          Do these words stand deleted from the "Great reading", or some fresh words in translation will come next time?

                          I could not understand, therefore, question.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Man_of_Faith
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #475

                            I will, God willing, try to translate them eventually. But I did not want to have those words shine with their error in translation without crossing them out at least in display that I find it faulty.

                            They speak of cleansing your mind and soul from impurities except that in corrupted interpretation it is a ritual created. That to see the right from wrong. Like shrugging Satan off your soul.

                            Anyway, let us see if I eventually make a proper translation.

                            In the meantime perhaps you should look at the substance of what I intended to inform about instead of getting stuck on details. Or otherwise perhaps write in a thread you have something else useful to add.

                            Peace

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • M Offline
                              M Offline
                              Mazhar
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #476

                              I will, God willing, try to translate them eventually. But I did not want to have those words shine with their error in translation without crossing them out at least in display that I find it faulty.

                              They speak of cleansing your mind and soul from impurities except that in corrupted interpretation it is a ritual created. That to see the right from wrong. Like shrugging Satan off your soul.

                              Anyway, let us see if I eventually make a proper translation.

                              In the meantime perhaps you should look at the substance of what I intended to inform about instead of getting stuck on details. Or otherwise perhaps write in a thread you have something else useful to add.

                              Peace

                              In view of intended substance, you can take it as do not preach in such situations........unless

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                Mazhar
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #477

                                keep the lesson

                                attended the lesson

                                Please translate these words since they give no information in English to a reader unless further qualified. It will help grasp the "intended content".

                                keep
                                verb (past and past participle kept , present participle keep?ing, 3rd person present singular keeps)

                                1. vti possess something to hold or maintain something in your possession
                                  The sample is yours to keep.

                                2. vt maintain condition of something to maintain somebody or something in a particular place or condition
                                  Keep your arm up.

                                3. vt store something to store something in a place when it is not in use
                                  kept the keys in a drawer

                                4. vti continue to cause somebody or something to continue in a particular way or activity, or continue in a particular way
                                  kept working

                                5. vt safeguard information to refrain from telling a secret or giving other information
                                  keep a secret

                                6. vt save something to save something for later use or withhold something from use
                                  kept some in reserve

                                7. vt be true to something to fulfill a promise or other verbal commitment
                                  kept his word

                                8. vt fulfill religious duty to observe a religious obligation
                                  keep kosher
                                  keep the Sabbath

                                9. vt maintain record to create or maintain something as a written record
                                  keep a diary

                                10. vi stay to remain in a particular condition
                                  keep warm

                                11. vi maintain course to follow a particular course or direction

                                12. vi not spoil to remain fresh or in a usable condition
                                  That fish won't keep in this hot weather.

                                13. vi do something repeatedly to repeat an action a number of times

                                14. vi not require attention to be able to be postponed
                                  The dusting will keep until tomorrow.

                                15. vt have something for sale to have something in stock in order to sell it
                                  keep a large selection of scarves

                                16. vt detain somebody to make somebody wait or prevent somebody from going
                                  I won't keep you a moment.

                                17. vt look after somebody or something to take care of a person or animal, providing what is required to live
                                  keep pets

                                18. vt have animal as livestock to raise an animal for profit
                                  keep cattle

                                19. vt employ somebody to employ somebody, especially in a household
                                  keep servants

                                20. vt run business or household to maintain a business, house, or other establishment
                                  keeps house for the ambassador

                                21. vt support somebody financially to provide financially for a spouse or lover (dated)

                                22. vt Malaysia put something away to put something in the place where it is normally stored or kept ready for use
                                  I must just keep these papers in my desk before I leave.

                                noun (plural keeps)

                                1. maintenance food and lodging, or whatever somebody needs to live
                                  work for your keep

                                2. castle part a stronghold or the innermost fortified part of a castle

                                for keeps permanently or forever (informal)
                                keep going to continue despite difficulty or adversity
                                I don't know how she kept going after John died.
                                keep something to yourself to refrain from revealing something
                                keep (yourself) to yourself to avoid mixing or communicating with other people

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • M Offline
                                  M Offline
                                  Man_of_Faith
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #478

                                  It is a linguistic oversight by me, Mazhar. Thanks for making me realize it. One can obviously not say "keep the lesson" and it makes sense.

                                  I had better change it into something that makes sense. I hope you get what I mean anyway. I was thinking about that you keep focused or even remembering the topic that has been preached about.

                                  I will return with a correction that better suits the discourse in a translation.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    Man_of_Faith
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #479

                                    Peace,

                                    It appears to me that we must use remember the lesson which is quite synonymous actually. If you keep something like a lesson in your mind then you remember it.

                                    Because I neatly removed remember from the Arabic by disqualifying dhekr to mean that I still need a word resembling remember ;D

                                    As a matter of fact, my doubtful friends. That is it. The word 'qum' in several instances I have noticed can be more preferably translated as "remember". The same phenomenon recurs in other instances with faulty translations based to a misunderstanding of the word 'qum'. It is ironical that it is an opponent of mine that makes me aware of my mistakes that lead into a better understanding, or perhaps it is not?

                                    I have an example with the base word qum where the whole phrase is misunderstood due to that people think it means something else. Check these ones. My discovery thanks to you clears out some errors on the spot. It is difficult to solve 1000 years of falsehood, but it is coming forth. There are many times the word recurs and I take those that do not involve salat just for demonstrative purposes.

                                    3113 They are not all the same, from the adherents to the decree are a nation that is upright is a community that remembers; they recite the signs of God during the night hours and they are respectful.

                                    4127 And they seek a ruling regarding the women, say ?God will give you a ruling regarding them and what is being recited to you in the decree regarding the orphans? mothers whom you wish to marry but have not given them what was decreed for them, and the oppressed from the children That you stand for the orphans in equality that you remember to be fair to the orphans.? Whatever good you do, then God is aware of it.

                                    4135 O you who believe, stand with justice remember to be fair as witnesses to God, even if against yourselves, or the parents or the relatives. Even if he be rich or poor, God is more worthy of them, so do not follow desire into being unjust. And if you twist or turn away, then God is Expert over what you do.

                                    4175 As for those who believe in God and hold fast to Him, He will admit them in a mercy from Him and a bounty, and He will guide them to Himself, a straight path. to a way of those who remember Him.

                                    58 O you who believe, stand for remember God and be fair witnesses, and let not the hatred towards a people make you avoid being just. Be just, for it is closer to righteousness, and be aware of God. God is expert over what you do.

                                    516 God guides with it whoever follows His acceptance, to the ways of peace; and it brings them out of the darkness and into the light with His permission; and it guides them to a straight path ways of remembrance.

                                    There are of course many examples until this one, but I take some more obvious ones. Let us take a peek on this one

                                    551 O you who believe, do not take the Jews and the Nazarenes as allies, for they are allies to one another; and whoever takes them as such from among you is one of them. God does not guide the wicked people mindlessly unjust.


                                    Anyway, I am sorry for my clumsiness with lesson that I kept keep as it is obviously grammatically wrong, but amidst all that I discovered another distortion. Very fascinating.


                                    566 And if they had upheld remembered been mindful of the Torah and the Gospel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and from beneath their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but most of them only do evil.

                                    And I wondered where the word remember in the Arabic language would go when dhekr was out of play. But here it goes again!

                                    568 Say ?O adherents of the decree, you are not upon anything until you uphold are mindful of the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord.? And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and opposition. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.

                                    6153 And this is My path, a straight one. ?So remember to follow it, and do not follow the other paths lest they divert you from His path. That is what He has enjoined you to that you may be righteous.?

                                    6161 Say ?My Lord has guided me to a way of being mindful of a system, the historical creed of Abraham the monotheist; he was not of the associators.?

                                    Sorry, I improvised a little in the translation above. Nonetheless the translation should be something like that.

                                    716 He said ?For that which You have caused me to be misled, I will stalk for them on Your straight path intended path.?

                                    Talk about that Satan wants to chase people even trying to follow the path of God. So many misled after the revelation of the book called Qur'an.

                                    729 Say ?My Lord orders justice, and that you set yours faces at every temple remember to be conscientious in your dedication and that you call on Him, while being faithful to Him in the system; as He initiated you, so you will return.?

                                    Okay. I feel I have enough done enough of drill-checking the phenomenon. It is quite rock-solid that qum connotes on the mind. In 729 you see how flawed from a qualitative standpoint the traditional interpretation is. First the building that is not a building and then also it says orders justice then the language (traditionally) goes over to talk about setting faces in the temples. Completely nonsensical. On top of that it goes back to talk about serving God in the system.

                                    Anyway, once again I have found an Arabic word given multiple meanings from the base word while it has not. Actually I have thoughts that this is the case with practically all words but I have been unable to figure that out yet.

                                    And you see there is a lot about being mindfully disobedient in the recitation that is worst.

                                    Let me go back to the lesson of salat in another post and I will also repeat some of the verses with the proper translation and not KEEP THE LESSON. When I first saw my mistake I felt embarrassed. When I saw that it was to my advantage the mistake I felt a bit malicious over it ignore

                                    Once again I can repeat "He who laughs last laughs best".

                                    Have faith

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      Man_of_Faith
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #480

                                      Peace,

                                      Let me try again with a Salat v. 1.1.1 hypno

                                      23 Those who believe in the unseen, and remember the lesson, and
                                      from Our provisions to them they spend.

                                      243 And remember the lesson, and contribute towards purification, and be humble with those who are humble.

                                      283 And We took the covenant of the Children of Israel ?You shall not serve except God, and do good to your parents, and regard the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and say kind things to the people, and remember the lesson, and contribute towards purification.? But then you turned away, except for a few of you; you were objecting.

                                      2110 And remember the lesson, and contribute towards purification; and what you bring forth of good for your souls you will find it with God. God is watching what you do.

                                      2124 And Abraham was tested by words from His Lord which he fulfilled. He said ?I will make you a guide for the people.? He said ?And also from my progeny?? He said ?My pledge will not encompass the wicked.?
                                      2125 And We have made the assembly to be a model for the people and a faith/confidence, and you shall take from Abraham an example to remember as a lesson and We entrusted to Abraham and Ishmael ?You shall purify My assembly for those who visit, and those who are devoted, and the respectfully humble.?

                                      2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west turn your conscience towards east or west, but pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the decree, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who remember the lesson, and who contributes towards purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of adversity and hardship and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous.

                                      2238 Adhere to the lessons; and the best lesson; and mind God devoutly

                                      2277 Those who believe and do good works, and remember the lesson, and contribute towards purification; they will have their recompense with their Lord and there is no fear over them nor will they grieve.

                                      339 So the angels called to him while he was mindfully teaching, in the temple enclosure ?God gives you glad tidings of John, truthful to the word from God, and a master, and steadfast, and a prophet from the upright.?

                                      Red Obviously some other English similar word that suits better in the context may be used. I was not patient enough to find any better. Perhaps occupied. It has to paint up a mental image of keeping something in your mind anyway. I may take a look at this passage more in depth at some point.

                                      Quite nice this one with the the truly proper light on the following passage

                                      477 Did you not see those who were told ?Cease your aggression, and remember the lesson, and contribute towards purification.? But when fighting was decreed for them, a group of them were concerned towards the people as they would have been concerned towards God or even more so. And they said ?Our Lord, why did You decree fighting for us? If only You would delay for us until another time.? Say ?The enjoyment of this world is little, and the Hereafter is far better for those who are aware; you will not be wronged in the least.?

                                      4103 Then, if you have completed the lesson, regard God while meditating, or sitting, or on your sides. Then, if you are faithful, remember the lesson. Indeed, the lesson for the believers is a decreed appointment.

                                      Blue Honestly just experimental based on my new understanding of qum.


                                      Here it starts from where I left off the last time.


                                      M o F "Salat" proposition v. 1.1.1 part II
                                      The teaching/preaching/lesson
                                      4140 And it has been sent down to you in the decree, that if you hear the revelations of God being opposed and mocked, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different narrative; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell all together.
                                      4141 Those who linger and observe you, if you have a victory from God they say ?Were we not with you?? And if the opponents have success, they say ?Did we not side with you and deter the believers from you?? God will decide between you on the Day of Resurrection, and God will not grant the opponents any success over the believers.
                                      4142 The hypocrites seek to deceive God, while He is deceiving them; and if they are mindful of the lesson, they are so reluctantly, only to show the people; they do not regard God except very little.
                                      4143 They are swaying in-between, neither with this group nor with that group. Whoever God will misguide, you will not find for him a way.


                                      4155 So, for the breaking of their covenant, and their opposition of the revelations of God, and their killing of the prophets without right, and their saying ?Our hearts are shielded.? Indeed, God has stamped upon their hearts because of their opposition; they do not believe, except for a few.
                                      4156 And for their opposition and their saying about Mary a great falsehood.
                                      4157 And their saying ?We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, messenger of God!? And they had not killed him, nor crucified him, but it appeared to them as if they had. And those who dispute are in doubt regarding him, they have no knowledge except to follow conjecture; they did not kill him for a certainty.
                                      4158 Instead, God had raised him to Himself; and God is Noble, Wise.
                                      4159 And from the people of the decree are those who refused to believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be witness against them.
                                      4160 Because of the wickedness from among those who are Jewish, We made unlawful to them the good things that were lawful to them; and for their deterring many from the path of God.
                                      4161 And for their taking of usury, while they were prohibited from doing so, and for their consuming the money of the people unjustly. We have prepared for the disbelievers among them a painful retribution.
                                      4162 But those of them who are well founded in knowledge, and the believers, they believe in what was sent down to you and what was sent down before you; and who remember the lesson and who contribute towards purification, and who believe in God and the Last Day; to these We will give them their recompense greatly.


                                      Sorry. I continue striking through this passage due to better understanding right now.

                                      56 O you who believe, if you are mindful of the lesson, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall purify. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful...
                                      57 ...and regard the blessings of God over you and His covenant that He has bound you with, for which you have said ?We hear and obey,? and be aware of God; for God knows what is in the chests.

                                      Obviously if the words qum and salat get a proper light then it starts to fade away from a ritual without translating any of the words struck through. I will return to them some day and try to decipher them though.


                                      512 God has taken the covenant of the Children of Israel and raised from them twelve representatives, and God said ?I am with you if you remember the lesson and contribute towards purification, and believe in My messengers, and support them, and lend God a loan of righteousness; then I will cancel your sins and admit you into estates with rivers flowing beneath them.? Whoever opposes after this from you, then he has strayed from the path.
                                      513 But because of them breaking their covenant, We have cursed them, and made their hearts become hardened; they take the words out of context; and they forgot much of what they were given regard of. And you will still discover betrayal in them except for a few; so pardon them and overlook; God loves the good doers.


                                      554 O you who believe, whoever from among you turns away from His system, then God will bring a people whom He loves and they love Him; meek towards the believers, honorable towards the opponents; they strive in the cause of God and do not fear to be blamed by those who blame. This is the grace of God, He bestows it upon whom He wills; God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
                                      555 For your supporter are God and His messenger and those who believe; they remember the lesson and contribute towards purification, and they are humble.
                                      556 And whoever allies God and His messenger and those who believe; then the party of God are the ones who will be victorious.
                                      557 O you who believe, do not take as allies those who have taken your system for mockery and play from among those who have been given the decree before you and the opponents. And be aware of God if you are believers.
                                      558 And if you summon to the lesson, they take it for mockery and play. That is because they are a people who do not comprehend.
                                      559 Say ?O adherents of the decree, do you hate us simply because we believe in God and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down before?? Alas, the majority of them are wicked.
                                      560 Say ?Shall I inform you of worse than this as a punishment from God? Those whom God cursed and became angry at them, and He made from them apes and pigs and servants of evil. Those have a worse place and are more astray from the right path.?
                                      561 And if they come to you they say ?We believe,? while they had entered in with opposition and went out with the same. God is aware of what they were hiding.


                                      590 O you who believe, alcohol, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tainted - by the work of the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
                                      591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through alcohol and gambling, and to repel you away from regarding God and from the lesson. Will you be deterred?
                                      592 And obey God and obey the messenger, and be aware. If you turn away then know that it is the duty of Our messenger to deliver clearly.


                                      5106 O you who believe, witnessing shall be done if death is approaching one of you and a will is being made, by two among you who are equitable. If you have gone forth in the land, and death is approaching, then any two may suffice - if you have doubt regarding them, then detain them after a lesson, and they will swear by God ?We will not purchase with it any price, even if it was from a near relative, and we will not conceal the testimony of God, else we are of the sinners.?


                                      670 Leave alone those who have taken their system for play and distraction, and this worldly life has tempted them. And remind with it that a soul will suffer for what it has earned, it will not have besides God any supporter nor intercessor; and even if it brings all justice, none will be accepted from it. These are the ones who have suffered with what they have earned; for them will be a boiling drink, and a painful retribution for what they had rejected.
                                      671 Say ?Shall we call upon other than God what cannot benefit us or harm us, and we turn back on our heels after God has guided us?? This is like the one whom the devils have managed to mislead on the earth, he is confused, having friends who call him to the guidance ?Come to us!? Say ?The guidance is the guidance of God, and we have been ordered to submit to the Lord of the worlds.?
                                      672 And you shall remember the lesson, and be aware; and to Him you will be gathered.
                                      673 And He is the One who has created the heavens and the earth with the truth, and the day He says ?Be,? then it is! His saying is truth; and to Him is the sovereignty the Day the horn is blown. Knower of the unseen and the seen; He is the Wise, the Expert.


                                      691 And they did not appreciate God as He deserves to be appreciated, for they said ?God has never sent down anything to any human being.? Say ?Who then has sent down the decree which Moses had come with, a light and a guidance for the people? You treat it simply as paper for display, and you conceal much; and you were taught what neither you nor your fathers knew.? Say ?God has.? Then leave them playing in their folly.
                                      692 And this is a decree which We have sent down, blessed, truthful to what is in his possession, and that you may warn the capital of the towns and those around it. And those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and they remember the lesson.
                                      693 And who is more wicked than he who invents lies about God, or says ?It has been inspired to me,? when We did not inspire anything to him; or who says ?I will bring down the same as what God has sent down.? And if you could only see the wicked at the moments of death when the angels have their arms opened ?Bring yourselves out, today you will be given the severest punishment for what you used to say about God without truth, and you used to be arrogant towards His revelations.?


                                      6159 Those who have divided their system and become sects, you are not with them in anything. Their matter will be with God, then He will inform them of what they had done.
                                      6160 Whoever comes with a good deed, he will receive ten times its worth, and whoever comes with a sin, he will only be recompensed its like; they will not be wronged.
                                      6161 Say ?My Lord has guided me to a way of remembrance of a historical system, the creed of Abraham the monotheist; he was not of the polytheists.?
                                      6162 Say ?My teaching, and my deeds, and my life, and my death, are all to God, Lord of the worlds.?
                                      6163 ?He has no partner, and it is to this that I was commanded, and I am the first of those who have submitted.?

                                      Red You need to consider that it is supposed to be the prophet uttering these words, so thus he says "My teaching". The prophet is saying that everything he has done was devoted to God alone and not of his own whims and desires (thanks Scribbler for the expression ;D )


                                      7169 Then, a generation came after them who inherited the decree, but they opted for the materialism of that which is lower; and they say ?It will be forgiven for us.? And they continue to opt for the materialism if it comes to them; was not the covenant of the decree taken on them that they would only say the truth about God, and they studied what was in it? And the abode of the Hereafter is better for those who are aware. Do you not comprehend?
                                      7170 As for those who hold fast to the decree, and they remember the lesson; We will not waste the reward of the righteous.


                                      82 The believers are those whom, when God is mentioned, their hearts reverence; and when His revelations are recited to them, it increases their faith; and they put their trust in their Lord.
                                      83 They remember the lesson, and from Our provisions to them they spend.
                                      84 These are the true believers; they will have grades with their Lord and a forgiveness and a generous provision.


                                      832 And they said ?Our god, if this is the truth from You, then send down upon us a rain of stones from the heaven or bring upon us a painful retribution.?
                                      833 And God will not punish them while you are with them, nor will God punish them while they continue to seek forgiveness.
                                      834 And why should God not punish them when they are turning others away from the observing the restrictions, and they were never its keepers! Its keepers are the righteous; but most of them do not know.
                                      835 And their lesson at the assembly was nothing but noise and aversion. Taste the retribution for what you have opposed.
                                      836 Those who have opposed, they spend their money to turn others away from the path of God. They will spend it, then it will become an anguish for them, then they will be defeated. Those who have opposed will be gathered to Hell.
                                      837 This is so that God will distinguish the bad from the good, and so that the bad will be gathered together into one heap then He will cast it all into Hell. These are the losers.


                                      94 Except for those with whom you had made a pledge from among the associators if they did not reduce anything from it nor did they support anyone against you; you shall continue the pledge with them until its expiry. God loves the righteous.
                                      95 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill the associators wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and they remember the lesson and they contribute towards purification, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
                                      96 And if any of the associators seeks your protection, then you may protect him so that he may hear the words of God, then let him reach his sanctity. This is because they are a people who do not know.
                                      97 How can the associators have a pledge with God and with His messenger? Except for those with whom you made a pledge of observing the restrictions, as long as they are mindful of you, then you are mindful of them. God loves the righteous.
                                      98 How is it that when they come upon you they disregard all ties, either those of kinship or of pledge. They seek to please you with their words, but their hearts deny, and the majority of them are wicked.
                                      99 They purchased with the revelations of God a cheap price take the signs of God lightly, so they repel others from His path. Evil indeed is what they used to do.
                                      910 They do not respect those who are believers, nor a kinship, nor a pledge. These are the transgressors.
                                      911 If they repent, and they remember the lesson and they contribute towards purification, then they are your brothers in the system. We explain the revelations for a people who know.
                                      912 And if they break their oaths after making their pledge, and they challenge the authority of your system; then you may kill the leaders of opposition. Their oaths are nothing to them, perhaps they will then cease.

                                      Obviously you see that if it means contact prayer in 95 and 911 the faith called Islam is very dogmatic and zealous as unless they perform the ritualistic prayer of "Muslims" they are to be annihilated. Fortunately this is not the case with my discoveries, it is just that they are to act according to the decree of God which means act in a good way because all good is from God.

                                      If you after all my work in this thread still cannot believe that salat is not a contact prayer and even close then I do not know what kind of people you are.


                                      917 It was not for the associators to keep the respect of God while they bear witness over their own opposition. For these, their works have fallen, and in the Fire they will abide.
                                      918 Rather, the respect for God is kept by he who believes in God and the Last Day, and he remembers the lesson and he contributes towards purification, and is only concerned by God. It is these that will be of the guided ones.
                                      919 Have you made the watering (?) of the joiner and the keeping of observation of the restrictions the same as one who believes in God and the Last Day and he strives in the cause of God? They are not the same with God. And God does not guide the wicked people.

                                      I need more time to investigate the first phrase of that passage (919)


                                      952 Say ?You can only expect for us one of two good things; while we wait for you to be afflicted by God with a retribution from Him, or by our hands. So wait, we are with you waiting.?
                                      953 Say ?Spend willingly or unwillingly, it will not be accepted from you. You are a wicked people.?
                                      954 And what prevented what they would spend from being accepted from them except that they opposed and His messenger, and they do not attend the lesson except reluctantly, and they do not spend except unwillingly.
                                      955 So do not be impressed by their wealth or children; God only wishes to punish them with it in the worldly life, and so that their souls will be taken while they are rejecters.
                                      956 And they swear by God that they are with you, while they are not with you; but they are a people who are indecisive.


                                      971 And the believing males and the believing females, they are allies to one another. They order good and prohibit vice, and they remember the lesson and they contribute towards purification and they obey God and His messenger. God will have mercy on them; God is Noble, Wise.


                                      984 And do not "hold a speech" for any of them who have died, nor stand at their grave. They have opposed God and His messenger and died while they were wicked.

                                      Much like the Christian clerics do for people in the church when people die. I was not sure how to translate this actually.


                                      999 And from the Nomads are those who believe in God and the Last Day, and he looks upon what he spends to make him closer to God, and the lessons of the messenger. It indeed makes them closer. God will admit them in His mercy; God is Forgiving, Merciful.


                                      9102 And others who have acknowledged their sins, they have mixed a good work with another that was bad. Perhaps God will pardon them. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
                                      9103 Take from their money a charity to purify them and develop them with it, and hold a lesson for them; for your lesson is a tranquility for them; and God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.

                                      I am not sure if the Arabic language really speaks of monetary funds here. It sounds very much like extortion and a messenger does not ask for money.


                                      1087 And We inspired to Moses and his brother ?You shall seek out assemblies for your people in Egypt and leave your assemblies to be a "role model", and remember the lesson. And give good news to the believers.?


                                      1187 They said ?O Shu?ayb, does your lesson order you that we leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please? It seems only you are the compassionate, the wise!?


                                      11110 And We gave Moses the decree, yet they disputed in it; and had it not been for a word which was already given by your Lord, their case would have been judged immediately. They are in grave doubt concerning it.
                                      11111 And to each your Lord will recompense their works. He is expert in what they do.
                                      11112 So be mindful as you were commanded, and those who have repented with you, and do not transgress. He is Seer over what you do.
                                      11113 And do not lean towards those who have wronged else you will incur the Fire; and you will not have besides God any allies, and you will not be victorious.
                                      11114 And maintain the lesson in focus of the day and at the near part of the night the good deeds take away the bad. This is a regard to those who pay attention.
                                      11115 And be patient, for God does not waste the reward of the good doers.


                                      1320 Those who fulfill the pledge of God, and they do not break the covenant.
                                      1321 And those who deliver what God has ordered to be delivered, and they are concerned towards their Lord and they fear a terrible reckoning.
                                      1322 And those who are patient seeking the proximity of their Lord; and they remember the lesson, and they spend from what We have bestowed upon them secretly and openly, and they counter evil with good; these will have an excellent abode.


                                      1431 Say to My servants who believe, that they should remember the lesson, and spend from what provisions We granted them secretly and openly, before a Day comes when there is no trade therein, nor will there be any friends.


                                      1436 ?My Lord, they have misguided many from among the people. So, whoever follows me, then he is of me, and whoever disobeys me, then You are Forgiving, Merciful.?
                                      1437 ?Our Lord, I have resided part of my progeny in a barren valley near your observers of the restrictions. Our Lord, that they may remember the lesson, so let the hearts of the people incline towards them and give provisions to them of the fruits that they may give thanks.?
                                      1438 ?Our Lord, you know what we hide and what we declare. And nothing at all is hidden from God on the earth or in the heavens.?
                                      1439 ?Praise be to God who has granted me to my old age Ishmael and Isaac; my Lord is Hearer of the prayer (&#1616.?
                                      1440 ?My Lord, let me remember the lesson and also from my progeny. Our Lord, and accept my prayer (&#1616.?
                                      1441 ?Our Lord, forgive me and my parents, and the believers on the Day the judgment is called.?

                                      Important for understanding the book that you claim to read is that in two of the passages above you have the "real" word for pray and not the illusive salat word.


                                      1773 And they nearly diverted you from what We inspired to you so that you would fabricate something different against Us, and then they would have taken you as a friend!
                                      1774 And if We had not made you stand firm, you were about to lean towards them a little bit.
                                      1775 Then, We would have made you taste double the retribution in this life and double the retribution in death. And then you would not find for yourself any victor against Us.
                                      1776 And they nearly intimidated you so they could drive you out of the land. But then they would have been destroyed shortly after you were gone.
                                      1777 Such was the way of those whom We had sent before you of Our messengers. And you will not find any change in Our way.
                                      1778 Remember the lesson till the setting of the sun; to the murkiness of the night; and the recitation at dawn - the recitation at dawn is witnessed.
                                      1779 And from the night, as an addition, you shall reflect upon it for yourself, perhaps your Lord would grant you a praiseworthy example.
                                      1780 And say ?My Lord, admit me an entrance of truth and let me exit an exit of truth, and grant me from Yourself a support to victory.?
                                      1781 And say ?The truth has come and falsehood has perished. Falsehood is always bound to perish!?
                                      1782 And We send down from the Qur?an what is a healing and mercy to the believers. And it only increases the wicked in their loss.

                                      Red Honestly; what I feel here is that the prophet was to remember his own fault and think and reflect upon it when he had the chance.


                                      17110 Say ?Call on God or call on the Almighty; by whichever you call on, to Him are the best names.? And do not be too loud in your teaching, nor too quiet; but seek a path in between.
                                      17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.? And magnify Him greatly.


                                      1930 He said ?I am a servant of God, He has given me the decree and made me a prophet.?
                                      1931 ?And He has made me blessed wherever I am, and He has charged me with the teaching and purification as long as I am alive.?
                                      1932 ?And to be dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a mischievous tyrant.?
                                      1933 ?And peace be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the Day I am resurrected alive.?
                                      1934 Such was Jesus, son of Mary, and this is the truth of the matter in which they doubt.

                                      Red Obviously it seems like it was the only thing that the man did from birth until his return.


                                      1954 And recall in the decree, Ishmael; he was truthful to his promise, and he was a messenger prophet.
                                      1955 And he used to instruct his family about the lesson and purification, and his Lord was pleased with him.


                                      1959 Then, generations came after them who forgot the lesson, and followed desires. They will find their consequences.
                                      1960 Except for whoever repents and believes and does good works; they will be admitted to the Paradise, and they will not be wronged in the least.


                                      2011 So when he came to it he was called ?O Moses.?
                                      2012 ?I am your Lord, so take off your slippers; you are in the holy valley Tuwa.?
                                      2013 ?And I have chosen you, so listen to what is being inspired.?
                                      2014 ?I am God, there is no god except Me, so serve Me and remember the lesson for My sake.?
                                      2015 ?The Hour is coming, I am nearly keeping it hidden, so that every soul will be recompensed with what it strived.?
                                      2016 ?So do not be deterred from it by he who does not believe in it and followed his desire and perished.?


                                      20130 So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord by the rising of the sun, and by its setting, and at the approach of the night you shall glorify and by the realization of the day perhaps you may be content...
                                      20131 ...and do not crave with your eyes what We have bestowed upon some couples from them; the flower of the worldly life; so as to test them in it; and the provision of your Lord is better and more lasting.
                                      20132 And instruct your family about the lesson, and be patient for it. We do not ask you for provision, for We provide for you. And the ending will be for righteousness.
                                      20133 And they said ?If only he would bring us a sign from his Lord!? Did not proof come to them from what is in the previous scripts?
                                      20134 And if We had destroyed them with a retribution before this, they would have said ?Our Lord, if only You had sent us a messenger so we could follow Your revelations before we are humiliated and shamed!?
                                      20135 Say ?All are waiting, so wait, and you will come to know who are the people upon the even path and who are guided.?


                                      2172 And We granted him Isaac and, as an addition, Jacob. And each of them We made a good doer.
                                      2173 And We made them leaders who guide by Our command, and We inspired them to do good works and remember the lesson and contribute towards purification, and they were in service to Us.


                                      This whole bunch of passages are a mess, but I will try to show the light.

                                      2232 Thus, and whoever honors the gifts of God, then it is from the piety of the hearts.
                                      2233 In them are benefits to an appointed time, then their place is to the ancient assembly.
                                      2234 And for every community We have established deeds that they may devote in the name of God over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock. Your god is One god; submit to Him and give good tidings to those who obey.
                                      2235 Those who, when God's name is regarded, their hearts reverence, and they are patient to what befalls them, and they remember the lesson, and from what We provide them they spend.
                                      2236 And the plump livestock, We have made them for you to be among the gifts of God; you will have benefit in them. So devote in God's name of them in succession; then, once they are fully grown, you may take from them and feed with them the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you that you may be thankful.
                                      2237 Neither their meat nor their blood reaches God, but what reaches Him is the righteousness from you. It was thus that He made them in service to you, so that you may magnify God for what He has guided you to, and give news to the good doers.
                                      2238 God defends those who believe. God does not love any betrayer, opponent.
                                      2239 Permission has been given to those who are being fought - for they have been wronged. And God is able to give them victory.
                                      2240 The ones who were driven out of their homes without justice, except that they said ?Our Lord is God!? And if it were not for God defending the people against themselves, then many places of gathering, and markets, and lessons and observant of the regard for God's name, would have been suppressed. God will give victory to those who support Him. God is Powerful, Noble.
                                      2241 Those whom, if We allow them to have authority in the land, they remember the lesson and they contribute towards purification, and they prohibit vice. And to God is the conclusion of all matters.


                                      2278 And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you ?those who have submitted? from before and in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over the people. So remember the lesson and contribute towards purification and hold tight to God, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.


                                      232 Those who are meek when following their lesson
                                      233 And they abstain from vain talk.
                                      234 And they are active towards purification.
                                      236 Except around their mates, or those who are maintained by their oaths, they are free from blame.
                                      237 But whoever seeks anything beyond this, then these are the transgressors.
                                      238 And those who look after what they have been entrusted to and to their pledges.
                                      239 And those who adhere to their lessons.
                                      2310 These are the inheritors.


                                      I went on for too long without breaking considering my unstable GPRS connection. I will break it here and continue at some other time because it is past midnight now.

                                      Hope someone else finally considers and realizes that salat has a very simple meaning. Too simple to almost be believable. This is likely why many stubborn people will not comprehend.

                                      Have faith

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        Mazhar
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #481

                                        4103 Then, if you have completed the lesson, regard God while meditating, or sitting, or on your sides. Then, if you are faithful, remember the lesson. Indeed, the lesson for the believers is a decreed appointment.

                                        Here again things seem going out of control. Completed with "lesson" perhaps does not go. "Learnt the lesson" or "have read the lesson"; thereby, one can remember the lesson;

                                        again lesson "a decreed appointement" looks strange, one cant make out anything of it.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          Mazhar
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #482

                                          4142 The hypocrites seek to deceive God, while He is deceiving them; and if they are mindful of the lesson, they are so reluctantly, only to show the people; they do not regard God except very little.

                                          This also seems to have gone out of the grip. It is better to take little time which will help concentration and get firmer grip on the intended understanding.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Users