POLYGAMY A BLOT ON MUSLIMS
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Does MMA have the right to refuse joining in a polygamous marriage?
Does the first wife has right to divorce from the husband if the husband takes another wife?
Salm.
p.s.
For any brother here who wants to do polygamy, please tell to your 1st fiancee that you may have plans for polygamy in the future.
Let her know about the risk, so she can decide to continue the relationship or not.
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Peace JavaLatte and Armanaziz
There is no polygamy therefore the question of joining or refusing a polygamous marriage does not arise. However under the current polygamy system of the Muslims the MMA has every right to refuse and also no one can force her to join the polygamous marriage. However like orphans the MMA subject is also not properly understood.
The wife has every right to get divorce from the husband but the problem is that under the current system of four wives who will support her. The whole Ummah is in darkness about the four marriage and they believe what Bukhari and co. said. The Sharia court has endorsed the four marriage and the civil court also follows the same under the title Mohammaddan Laws. Therefore I believe that it is impossible for the wife to get divorce under this pretext.
Thanks brother Armanaziz for you encouragement.
Thanks
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Does the first wife has right to divorce from the husband if the husband takes another wife?
Salamun Alaikum.
I would like to share my thoughts on this.
I 100% agree with brother Hafeez that the "permission" for taking more than one wife in 43 is subject to 2 conditions
- It is only permissible if an equitable treatment to orphans demands such marraige and
- There is just treatment between the wives.
Brother Hafeez has focused on the first condition. Let us look a bit more on the second condition. If a person is taking a second wife - the basic principle of not dressing up the truth with deceipt demands that he must disclose his first marriage to the would be second wife. So, it is understandable that the second wife is giving consent to such a marriage.
If the second wife gets an open chance to give consent to such a marriage or back off from it - would it be a "just" treatment to the first wife to not give her similar opportunity? Common sense logic - NO. Thus although Qur'an does not mention it explicitly, the requirement of ensuring justice among the wives demands that any subsequent marriage (even if done to protect right of orphans) can only be performed with consent of the first wife. If this justice cannot be done, i.e. consent of the first wife is not available, then 43 insist sticking to one wife policy.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
I 100% agree with brother Hafeez that the "permission" for taking more than one wife in 43 is subject to 2 conditions
- It is only permissible if an equitable treatment to orphans demands such marraige and
- There is just treatment between the wives.
But, brother hafeez kazi also said,
There is no polygamy therefore the question of joining or refusing a polygamous marriage does not arise.
So...? confused
Salm.
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Salamun Alaikum.
I believe brother Hafeez is saying there is no general permission for polygomous marriage - so we do not need a general directive on whether first wife consent is necessary etc. Rather polygamy may be allowable only to extremely rare circumstances where an equitable treatment to the orphans justifies such marriage and there is full equitable consent from all wives to enter into a special arrangement for preserving the right of the orphans. Brother Hafeez pls clarify if I am reading your post incorrectly - but atleast that's what I understand from the verse.
I understand it is very difficult to imagine such a situation - for such situations are indeed rare. But let's assume this hypothetical situation - a financially solvent man (say father of one child) accidentally runs his car over another man who was the sole bread-earner of a family with wife and 2 minor children. In this situation the court assigns the full responsibility of the 2 minor orphans on the solvent man who was driving the car. The solvent man and his wife decides that the best way to ensure equitable treatment to the orphans is for the solvent man to offer to marry the widow - so that he can raise the orphans as his own child and save the family from living their entire life on mercy of others. In a nutshell - a very rare situation indeed.
May Allah guide us to the straight route.
Best regards,
Arman -
If not, then the second marriage is not a valid option - as simple as that. Al Qur'an 43 just keeps the "option" of such an arrangement open so that we explore every possible avenue to protect the rights of the orphan - but with all the conditions and requirements there is clear encouragement for maintaining monogamous relationship.
There can be other situations where someone may be obliged to take care of the orphans without actually being directly responsible for death of their father. Imagine an employer - whose employee dies of a work related accident. There can be a similar case.
Best regards,
Arman -
4.3 is not about marrying more than one wife, but about arranging marriages by the community of those women with children that are destitute or unprotected. Me taba lakum is not those you like, addressed to the mjales, but a general injunction to the community, marry "those cases" that seem to be the most righteous to protect. The whole aya is as a function of the orphans and the mothers of the orphans, it is not about poligamous marriage nor anything is said on that respect neither to condone nor to prohibit. I just does not deal with that but with procuring the children proper protection and care.
And it does not say marry one, two, three, those would be different words from those that are in the aya, which are different words and mean two at a time (of whatever) three at a time, four at a time, it says procure the marriage of those women (those eligible for this kind of socially protected marriage) as many at4 a time as you can afford, of thsoe that seem the most appropriate, it does not mean that any man should marry more than one woman, but the the marriage of as many women take affect as it is affordable for the community. Some men will be the husbands, but it is upon the community to see that these social marriages take place. Tnhe whole community is involved in making an effort so that as many or all of those umprocted children get that protection and a family. The aya is as a function of the women with orphans not as a function of men.
This is the kind of marriage which made the rounds in internet when the slanderers pretended that in Gaza they were marrying girl children to men, because of the pics in which the orphans daughters of the women were seen photographed by the hand of the contracting husband. Obviously the girl children were the beneficiaries of the marriage for whose sake many marriages were arranged at the same time. Many marriages not poligamous marriages. And the enumeration, two at a time, three at a time, four at a time, but only one if that is all you can afford, is not to put a top on this kind of marriage but to illustrate the fact that not being able to arrange a hundred (for instance) should not be a excuse for not arranging a lesser number if there are such women with orphans.
This is part of the social policies enjoined by the Qur'an where by the believers take responsibility for the well being of their communities, looking after everybody and procuring the best with whatever means are available. Thsi is not aya directed to individual status or for individual profit, but to effect the rotection of those who need protection.
Salaam
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Peace JavaLatte
I cannot answer why Allah allowed the prophet to marry more than one wife and it is Allah's discretion so we do not have any right to question HIM.
Peace brother Armanaziz
I appreciate your interest in the subject and your zeal to find out the truth by exploring all options. Unless we research the verse from various angles it is not possible to unearth the truth.
I believe brother Hafeez is saying there is no general permission for polygomous marriage - so we do not need a general directive on whether first wife consent is necessary etc. Rather polygamy may be allowable only to extremely rare circumstances where an equitable treatment to the orphans justifies such marriage and there is full equitable consent from all wives to enter into a special arrangement for preserving the right of the orphans. Brother Hafeez pls clarify if I am reading your post incorrectly - but atleast that's what I understand from the verse.
Sorry brother you have lost the track, what you have proposed is based on ifs and buts. All the verses of the surah from 2 to 10 is focusing on orphans, and there is not even a single verse of the marriage of the male believers.
the condition to marry is avoiding justice to ORPHANS and not orphan , so the example of the solvent man which you have presented does not render justice to the ORPHANS but ORPHAN
If you believe that a male can marry second woman after taking a consent from his first wife then you should reconsider it.
But if you want to replace one wife with another and you have given one of them a great amount , do not take from it anything. Would you take it in injustice and manifest sin? 420
Why the word REPLACE and not marrying of second, third or fourth or on and on. Why no ADDITION of wife but her REPLACEMENT. It is crystal clear that anyone who wants second wife then he should replace the first wife by means of DIVORCE.
What Allah has said in the Quran
And NEVER will you be able to DEAL JUSTLY between the WIVES, even if it is your ardent desire But turn not away altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self-restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful 4129
There is a doubt on the wisdom of Allah when He allows men to marry four women, when He very well knows and already declared in the Quran that men cannot DEAL JUSTLY between wives even if it is their ardent desire and moreover He has issued a command to the believers to DEAL JUSTLY.
Indeed, Allah ORDERS to DEAL JUSTLY and good conduct and giving to relatives and forbids immorality and bad conduct and oppression. He admonishes you that perhaps you will be reminded. (16 90)
How will Allah allow mankind to have four wives when He knows that mankind can never deal justly between wives? How will Allah override His Own command to deal justly between mankind? Will Allah allow His believers to touch the fire when He knows that they will burn their fingers in the fire? Will Allah allow men to touch the fire when He has already issued a command not to touch the fire? This is ridiculous.
Thanks
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Peace huruf
Your interpretation of the verse 43 is same as of mine but a subtle difference .
The whole aya is as a function of the orphans and the mothers of the orphans,
I am little doubtful about the mothers of orphans because the mothers of orphans I believe are called widows, and for widows Allah has issued another command, but this is my understanding and I may be wrong.
And MARRY OFF the WIDOWS among you and the righteous among your MALE SERVANTS and FEMALE SERVANTS. If THEY should be POOR, Allah will enrich THEM from His bounty, and Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing 2432
If it is orphans who are under the guardianship then what about those who during, natural calamities , war, riots, communal clashes lose both their parents and also guardians? who will give them shelter, who will marry off them? These points should also be addressed.
And most importantly the marriage of MMA? Why they are at par with the orphans?
Thanks for your brief interpretation of the verse
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If you fear (a future tense) (fear injustice to orphans) and the command that follows is to marry up to four women of your choice or MMA. In clear words it is not a command to marry four wives but to marry four wives ONLY when there is a FEAR that you may do injustice to the orphans otherwise you cannot marry four wives. It is as simple as that.
Salamun Alaikum.
I guess I misunderstood the red part from your quote above.
Anyways I'll look forward to further posts on this topic on this thread. My understanding of this verse is not yet "cast in stone". I am open to take the best interpretation as it unfolds.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Concerning poligamy, I find it really shocking that it is said that the Prophet was given priviledges. It is just the opposite. Poligamy was generally admitted and practiced there and then, and it has been so in many (not to say all) places and civilisations, particularly or almost exclusively maongst the higher social classes.
As soon as the Prophet become somebody important (rajul) he was gound tob e offered marriage from many sides, as distinction-alliance token, for stability of society and political or social considerations. Poligamy being the rule he could hardly say "no", even if it was a burden for him (which most likely it was).
The Qur'an gradually restricts te possibilities of poligamy, gradually. If it had been done suddenly, it would have created great problems for families, alliances and society at large.
On nobody is placed a limit to the number of wives he or she cna have, but we see that at one point the prophet is forbidden by God to take any more wives, to divorce any of those at the time with him, or to exchange one for another one. This is done only form him. Nobody else is forbidden divorce. So to say that the prophet got a favoured treatment is false, just the opposite, the same as his wives, they were also restricted.
By the way I think that the day that aya was revealed, I can imagine the feeling of relief he must have felt, ?Waw!
Now he could say no, to any new proposal...
Salaam
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peace huruf
The Qur'an gradually restricts te possibilities of poligamy, gradually. If it had been done suddenly, it would have created great problems for families, alliances and society at large.
On nobody is placed a limit to the number of wives he or she cna have, but we see that at one point the prophet is forbidden by God to take any more wives, to divorce any of those at the time with him, or to exchange one for another one. This is done only form him. Nobody else is forbidden divorce. So to say that the prophet got a favoured treatment is false, just the opposite, the same as his wives, they were also restricted.
By the way I think that the day that aya was revealed, I can imagine the feeling of relief he must have felt, ?Waw!
OMG What an important observation yay
You are slowly fixing nails on the coffin of polygamy brickwall
Thanks
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peace huruf
OMG What an important observation yay
You are slowly fixing nails on the coffin of polygamy brickwall
Thanks
Hopefully, we all are. But what I hope too is that while we dismantle legal poligamy, we do not forget the other peoligamy, also widely practiced which is illegal.
Salaam
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Peace,
I doubt prophets were allowed to polygamy. If it happens Muhammad practiced polygamy it must be something he did before he was enlightened and God did not want to split up existing marriages.
There was said in the past that God created them male and female and they were to become as one body/unit. The polygamy must come from elsewhere. Our whole faith circulates about Oneness, around a singularity which is called God and dualism is not really here.
And do not look on animals for they are without guilt and they just follow the commands set there by God and are different communities. Everything will return to the singularity and from it it came, but the humans are to our knowledge the only ones with a similar phenomenon called "souls". And they seem to be to become One and act in One even with their spouse, and a man is not born with two hearts is he?
Have faith
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In the Quran you find the disliked practice by god of the Monks.Later on you find that god didn?t ordered to live a singlelife,which later Generation saw in Jesus as an idol.They choose a lifestyle not to marry at all,that?s the opposite extreme of poligamy.And logically according to qurans middle way teaching one wife one husband is the normal form in the quran.
My humble view
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It is an accepted principle of law that if the prescribed precondition does not exist the injunction, permission, action allowed to be taken ceases.
Grand Qur'aan is the Guide in timeline. It incorporates instructions and guidelines to meet all situations that people might face. Anything relevant to human beings is but mentioned in it . Grand Qur'aan portrays unambiguously and in simple words a very well defined Value System. The hub of a society is the Family, not an individual.
Polygamy as a Custom of having many spouses for pleasure is not allowed in the Grand Qur'aan
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Poligamy or not depends on the laws and set up of a society. A society which founds a lot of its functioning in marriage alliances iand which besides practices poligamy will impose on the most signified of its members by political need and also in case of conflict by social need that kind of alliances on its most signified members. Christians under those circumstances have also practised it and the church may not have recognized them as canonical marriage but has accepted them as de facto marriage and blessed them, not like a canonical marriage but as positive unions.
So I doubt that given the particular circumstances prophets had blanket prohibition of poligamy. But as to the Qur'an it is clear that it is monogamy that is held as the normal marriage and that if poligamy, whether masculine or femnini is not outright prohibited it is because there may such demographical circumstances that make poligamy a question of life or death. I have already mentionned several times the case of Paraguay after the War of the triple alliance against them, females outnumbered males 20 to one, and the males left were old decrepit men and minors under age. By law at that time free love was declared at the time. Once the population balanced again, monogamy was again brought back by law. So once those circumstances do not prevail any more, also there is no justification for poligamy.
Poligamous marriage for pleasure is not justified and I doubt in fact that it exists, it is more a question of "standing". If you are powerful and rich you want to show off having a miss Universe as a wife, or several, that kind of thing.
Salaam