Resolve the confusion--pronoun in 16:66 and 23:21
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How naively you ignore that Arabic word for Arabic http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/07.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20009/7.%20Arbi%20Ain%20Ra%20Ba%20language/4.gif means Language of sons of soil of Arabian peninsula.
Salaam,
Sorry I disagree with the meaning above.
If the meaning mentioned above is correct then how will you translate 5637?5637
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Salaam,
Sorry I disagree with the meaning above.
If the meaning mentioned above is correct then how will you translate 5637?5637
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanSalam,
Both the words are different. See their morphology. -
What is that guy messing about?
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Salamun alaika,
Thanks for relevant input about grammar delicacies.
But here the noun is the same one towards which you are relating both the pronouns; i.e. ; thus there is not the issue of plural of paucity and plural of abundance involved here.Wa''alyika Salaam ,
This is known as ( mentioning the whole or the collective name but the meaning only pointing to some specific features ) the verse is saying that we get milk from AL-an"aam , and we know that can't have milk from all of them but only from females , so simply in this verse it doesn't specify that because it's evident that people do not have milk from the male.
An example for that rule in this same verse
Read the continuation of the verse in question 23/21
it says ( And upon them and on ships you are carried ) , are we Carrierd upon all the AL-an"aam ( the 8 pairs ) or only some of them , Surely poeple where Carrierd upon some of them only , cause poeple are not carried upon sheep or goats , so the meaning is pointing to some specific types of them while is still Using the whole commune name for all of them AL-an"aam
Moreover the verb can't be taken to have any relevance with other benefits people draw from mammals.
It is simply pointing to females as per what I mentioned above .
Another rule in arabic is that when there is a none that do not have real opposite gender it is acceptable to be feminized or msculinezed as per the whole context and other rules in combination .
Names who do not have real opposite gender in truth are name like the sun , the sky , the moon , the peace , the affection etc , hence the word AL-an"aam do not have real opposite gender , so it can be masculinezed or feminized as per the other rules , and these rules goes with physical reality like quantity , direction , and all according to the audience priorities and importance And the objective of the whole speech .
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Wa''alyika Salaam ,
This is known as ( mentioning the whole or the collective name but the meaning only pointing to some specific features ) the verse is saying that we get milk from AL-an"aam , and we know that can't have milk from all of them but only from females , so simply in this verse it doesn't specify that because it's evident that people do not have milk from the male.
An example for that rule in this same verse
Read the continuation of the verse in question 23/21
it says ( And upon them and on ships you are carried ) , are we Carrierd upon all the AL-an"aam ( the 8 pairs ) or only some of them , Surely poeple where Carrierd upon some of them only , cause poeple are not carried upon sheep or goats , so the meaning is pointing to some specific types of them while is still the whole commune name for all of them AL-an"aam
It is simply pointing to females as per what I mentioned above .
Another rule in arabic is that when there is a none that do not have real opposite gender it is acceptable to be feminized or msculinezed as per the whole context and other rules in combination .
Names who do not have real opposite gender in truth are name like the sun , the sky , the moon , the peace , the affection etc , hence the word AL-an"aam do not have real opposite gender , so it can be masculinezed or feminized as per the other rules , and these rules goes with physical reality like quantity , direction , and all according to the audience priorities and importance And the objective of the whole speech .
Salamun alaika,
I totally agree with your excellent portrayal of rules.
Grammatically, as you quoted the rules, no one could object about sentence structuring and use of different pronouns.
But what I have pointed out is different; the masculine pronoun in the complex sentence will refer to masculine Milk, since that is there in accusative case as Tameez. Today we know the Milk has its own Batoon milk fat globules.
Qur'aan is a statement of fact for the readers in the entire time line. That is the beauty of choice of words and their structuring into sentences; that it neither compromises against the rules of the language nor the truthful information becoming visible in the timeline to people.
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But what I have pointed out is different; the masculine pronoun in the complex sentence will refer to masculine Milk, since that is there in accusative case as Tameez. Today we know the Milk has its own Batoon milk fat globules.
Salam ,
I see u'r point .The milk is included in the (h) in ( butunihi ) but the masculin form at the end of ( butunihi ) does not Come form the milk but from the singularity of the whole .
Let me explain
The pronom (h) in ( butunihi ) is referring to AL-an"aam , from deep approch the bounded ( h ) is refereeing to the whole of something , like madrassah , the bounded ( h ) at the ended of the word deeply refer to the ensemble or the whole of that thing .
Madrassah school ,is it plural or singular ? is it one thing or a lot of things combined ? In a school there is walls , rooms , teachers , students ..etc , So there is plurality in there and the (h) at the end is pointing to the whole of that plurality combined , so it become singular as they form one unified undivided thing. I am referring by this that the (h) in ( butunihi ) is referring to the whole that is included in the word AL-an"aam ( their stomach , the milk , their bodies , their horn ..etc) , so the milk is automatically included.
The rule you are pointing to does exist in the Qur'aan , These are other tips about the concept of masculinizing of femminizing verbs Or nons
The word (al-shafa"aa ) is mostly used in Qur'aan and basic Arabic in feminine form , but here we can see that it's masculinezed in some cases , look to the following
2/48
(  Notice the verb ( laa yuqbal ل , he is in masculin form , if it was feminized the verve would be ( Laa tuqbal ل
in the same verse when talking about the same word (al-shafa"aa ) he said
2/123
( )( laa tanfa"uhaa ا ,notice the verb is in feminine form , if it was masculinezed it would say ( laa yanfa"uhaa ا
In another verses the verb pointing to (al-shafa"aa ) is feminized
36/23
( )53/26
( {26}).
Notice the Verb ( Laa tughni ن , he is in feminine form , if he was in masculin , should say ( Laa yughni ن
So why the Verbs pointing to the same word (al-shafa"aa ) was masculinezed in 2/48 and femminzed in 2/123 , 36/23 , 53/26 ?
As I mentioned in late post , in basic Arabic when a word do not have real opposit sex it can wither femminzed or masculinezed as per the context of the sentence and the meaning , in our case the word (al-shafa"aa ) is not real feminine word ( ي because does not have real opposite sex , so in this case there is no grammatical problem.
But why it was masculinezed in 2/48
Because the meaning was directing the audience to the one who will intercede (Al-shafi" ع not the ( intersection ) itself , and the intercedor is , so the Verbe was masculinezed .
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How naively you ignore that Arabic word for Arabic http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/07.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20009/7.%20Arbi%20Ain%20Ra%20Ba%20language/4.gif means Language of sons of soil of Arabian peninsula.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/07.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20009/7.%20Arbi%20Ain%20Ra%20Ba%20language/4.gif It is a noun termed as Relative Adjective . It is a noun having a consonant "Yaa- " suffixed to its ending which indicates its relation to the noun from which it is derived. Thus, a unique feature of this language is that it defines the identity of its own people the language of the sons of soil of Arabian peninsula; the language of the land that hosts the "House of Allah" on the Earth; and the universal leader of humanity, the Last Messenger of Allah the Exalted, Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam. This was the first language employed for teaching the First Man; and lately for the final teaching of knowledge and wisdom to the humanity universally through the ONLY teacher in timeline Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam.
It is an acknowledged fact that the Arabic, the mother tongue of the elevated universal Messenger Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam, became a prestigious language in the world after he recited and transcribed in writing the Grand Qur'aan
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/019.%20Maryam%20Siddiqa/19.97.gif
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/019.%20Maryam%20Siddiqa/19.97a.gif
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Thereby, for reason of its universality and permanence, We have certainly rendered it Grand Qur'aan easy, open and facilitative for reading and comprehension by transcribing it in the mother tongue Arabic language of you Muhammad .The purpose of its facilitative rendering is that you the Messenger might give glad tidings-guarantee on the strength of this Grand Qur'aan to those who endeavor to remain cautious and avoid conduct inspired and governed by emotion in reverence and fear of Allah the Exalted;
And so that you the Messenger may admonish, with this Grand Qur'aan, the excessively argumentative people.
Language of Grand Qur'aan
Salaam,
Some of your posts it is almost impossible to reply to, this is one of them.
Salaam,
Bender -
Salaam,
Some of your posts it is almost impossible to reply to, this is one of them.
Salaam,
BenderMerely try to understand that Grand Qur'aan is written in the language of a people; and its language is also associated to the Messenger sas in the discourse. Ponder why it is emphasized that its language is Arabic to get answer to your own observation for which Ayas was posted.
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Sure, but the non-native language here is the text of The Quran, not the arabic of the arabs. -
Merely try to understand that Grand Qur'aan is written in the language of a people; and its language is also associated to the Messenger sas in the discourse. Ponder why it is emphasized that its language is Arabic to get answer to your own observation for which Ayas was posted.
Salaam,
I think I need to work on my imagination to see the invisible e things you see.
Salaam,
Bender -
Salaam,
I think I need to work on my imagination to see the invisible e things you see.
Salaam,
BenderI don't waste my time to see the invisible through imaginative-hallucination; I see the words of the Book that mirror every reality, visible and invisible because I accept the Book is written in human language.
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By a divine author.
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It is difficult enough to interpret it by the original Arabic let alone find a translation that makes sense because you need to form entirely different sentences sometimes or you get stuck in translation. So it is double work and oftentimes you are more focused on the substance of the original language than giving perfect English renditions. I rather have the right interpretation of the original script and its words first of all.
Even if I form awkward sentences the smart guy can just put them in the right order because it is hard to think of two languages at the same time. Getting the correct literal translation is the most important step, first. And if you just make a first draft and first just brainstorm everything and get it out in a decent first translation, you can just use what you have and work on moving letters and vice versa around until it makes better sense and change necessary help words or rephrasing, as long as it does not change the meaning. Not add any words of implicit meaning that would change the literal interpretation.
Peace
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Salam,
Both the words are different. See their morphology.Salaam,
Sorry I disagree. It came from the same root.
A3in-Raa-Baa - Raa-Seen-Laam
You cannot say RuSuLan is a different word and not belong to the root of RaSooL.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Salaam,
Sorry I disagree. It came from the same root.
A3in-Raa-Baa - Raa-Seen-Laam
You cannot say RuSuLan is a different word and not belong to the root of RaSooL.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanSorry, this is no comparison in morphology.
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One should never forget Arabic is a pro-drop language. Its prepositional phrases show to the critical reader, who is aware of grammar rules, what is elided. Word by word translation for Arabic is the choice of those who know not Arabic.
Who said anything about word-by-word interpretation. Anyway it is a way to learn at first. Affixes and prepositions etc are important for the Arabic language, that is true, but it does not matter if the grammatical rules that you use are wrong. What I meant is that Arabic sentence design is very different from English, for example, and when you read it you "think" in a different way. It becomes a different order. This is essential to remember when you attempt to make a translation.
English is a pro-drop language, and it drops the pronouns way more frequently than Arabic. In fact I feel that Arabic actually keeps pronouns very often to the extent it sounds dull in English if you directly translate it. In this manner Arabic can on the other hand feel more exact and non-misunderstandable, as long as you use the proper grammar rules. By all means it depends on the speaker of the language really. Some people speak it lazily and drop certain words because it is more comfortable. Just watch the transformation of the English language.
Have faith
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Who said anything about word-by-word interpretation. Anyway it is a way to learn at first. Affixes and prepositions etc are important for the Arabic language, that is true, but it does not matter if the grammatical rules that you use are wrong. What I meant is that Arabic sentence design is very different from English, for example, and when you read it you "think" in a different way. It becomes a different order. This is essential to remember when you attempt to make a translation.
English is a pro-drop language, and it drops the pronouns way more frequently than Arabic. In fact I feel that Arabic actually keeps pronouns very often to the extent it sounds dull in English if you directly translate it. In this manner Arabic can on the other hand feel more exact and non-misunderstandable, as long as you use the proper grammar rules. By all means it depends on the speaker of the language really. Some people speak it lazily and drop certain words because it is more comfortable. Just watch the transformation of the English language.
Have faith
From MOF; It is a pleasant post to me.
The word order in sentences of English and Arabic has variations but it does not mean that both languages have different types of sentences, either by structure or meaning. First step is to recognize a sentence, its beginning and end since unlike English it has no stop signs. Translation will be in two steps; after morphological parsing and after syntactical parsing . Most of available translations were done only by following first process, thereby, they had blurred or distorted perceptions.
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The lack of punctuation is clearly a big disadvantage for the interpretation. And sometimes passages cut the same context into many fragments so it is confusing to read. It is at least a sign to me that some ignorant person sat down and fragmented the discourse into passages.
Peace