Purpose of life and Quran
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This thread (or what happened to "bkanwar2" cause me to become more understand that I should be very careful concerning
not taking Qur'an as an idol, and not making Qur'an as the source of truth No.1.
I think the Creator is the main (1st) source of truth and we need faith in the Creator as solid-strong base in understanding Qur'an.
And most importantly, Allah is bigger than the Book. When we confine our knowledge of Allah to the Book, we ultimately commit idolatry and spiritual adultery.
And most importantly, Allah is bigger than the Book. When we confine our knowledge of Allah to the Book, we ultimately commit idolatry and spiritual adultery.
I see someone has understood something important. bravo
Have faith
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There is no question of idolizing the Qur'an and there is no question of doubting the Qur'an either, bur there question as to what a person may understand the Qur'an says or means. The Qur'an is always right, but it is obvious that we are not always right nor God obviously has meant us to be always right. Learning to rectify, to go back on our errors and becoming more truthful is part of our way back to Him. So not the Qur'an, our view is what we should beware of. For that obviously we have the ingrained feeling of annoyance when we do not respond to our deep seated feeling of what we understand as right and wrong.
On the other hand, we can never be perfect on all counts because we are not our masters but are imposed upon by circumstances that may make it impossible to do this right and then another conflicting thing also right. Balancing that is always a question which poses problems.
Salaam
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To my knowledge, the Creator (Allah) never commanded us to take responsibility for His obligations.
I believe that Allah is very responsible (responsible perfectly),
and I think Allah does not need us to take over His responsibility or to take over His obligations.
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There is no question of idolizing the Qur'an
I think I may have done idolatry/polytheism if I take Qur'an as "something perfect and holy" which tells me what to do.
For example, if the Qur'an 'tells' me that I have to take responsibility for Allah's obligations, then why should I believe that Qur'an is the truth?
I don't believe that I have to do such thing (in bold). Such command does not in rhythm with instinct which Allah gave to me.
Allah is the One who has full right to tell me what to do, not the Qur'an.
I think Qur'an contains Allah's commandments, but the Qur'an itself does not have right to command me.
And I think the Qur'an is not the main source of the knowledge.
In order to seek the real knowledge, we should go towards Allah, we should ask Allah to teach us.
Salm.
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Jave, why should we complicate things?
The Qur'an, it says so at the benginning of surat 2 tells us that it is a guide. What is there to make an idol of a guide? A guide one uses for the purpose that is stated in it. One does not serve the guide, one uses the guide. It is a means, not an end. What if you use it all the time? Nothing. We use plates every day (hopefully) several times, do we idolize the plates? We use them. We use computers, very much, in fact. I like my last computer awfully, but still, even liking it very much, I use it, I am not for it, it is for me.
It is like logarithm tables. You depend on them to get accurate figures for many uses. Do you worship logarith tables? No. you dpeend on them, but you are not idolizing them. Would you set them aside because you might feel that you give them too much importance? No. You use them when you need to use them or when you feel that they will help you, but you are not obliged neither to use them nor not to use them at any particular occasion. And God still exists while you are using logarithm tables.
You would not think that you are setting God below them because youuse them instead of asking God for logarithms. In fact, God has it so arranged thatmankind has the ability to use logarith tables, and has the ability to use Qur'an. But Qur'an like logarithm tables are of no use if you do not use them properly. You do not think of tricking when using a logarithm table. You would get everything wrong. So with Qur'an you trick at youw own peril. But there is no question that there is any danger in using Qur'an for what its right use is, serve as a guide for those who...Salaam
I can't see any problem there.
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I think I may have done idolatry/polytheism if I take Qur'an as "something perfect and holy" which tells me what to do.
For example, if the Qur'an 'tells' me that I have to take responsibility for Allah's obligations, then why should I believe that Qur'an is the truth?
I don't believe that I have to do such thing (in bold). Such command does not in rhythm with instinct which Allah gave to me.
Allah is the One who has full right to tell me what to do, not the Qur'an.
I think Qur'an contains Allah's commandments, but the Qur'an itself does not have right to command me.
And I think the Qur'an is not the main source of the knowledge.
In order to seek the real knowledge, we should go towards Allah, we should ask Allah to teach us.
Salm.
As long as Allah will remain and mean "One and only deity for worship". It will be hard to understand what our obligations are to Rabb.
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Become whole and pure.
Salaam
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As long as Allah will remain and mean "One and only deity for worship". It will be hard to understand what our obligations are to Rabb.
Hard? Not really, I suppose.
At least I know/understand one of my important obligations.
I know strongly that one of my important obligations is to obey my Owner/my Master.
The hint/instruction (for that obligation) embedded in me. The hint exists in the area of my mind, I can feel it, I know clearly that I must obey my Owner.
And Praise be to my Creator, I know that my Owner is Him, and I understand that my Owner is my only Master, my King.
Related with "worship", I am not against this word. No.
I think that I can also worship God. Why not?
It is more secure to worship God alone, than worshiping other(s) or worshiping other(s) beside God.
However, even if I want to worship God, then my worship cannot prevent me from doing my obligations, such as to obey God, to serve God, and to trust God.
Salm.
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Hard? Not really, I suppose.
At least I know/understand one of my important obligations.
I know strongly that one of my important obligations is to obey my Owner/my Master.
The hint/instruction (for that obligation) embedded in me. The hint exists in the area of my mind, I can feel it, I know clearly that I must obey my Owner
Salm.
How and what do you say the obedience is or by which acts of yours do you manifest it?
If it is only embedded in you. Does not help anyone, please share with rest aloud.
Regards,
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How and what do you say the obedience is or by which acts of yours do you manifest it?
By obeying God's commandments according to my ability.
I can understand some of His commandments, especially the basic commandments, because they're quite clear and make sense.
And if I still confuse about something (e.g. whether God order it or not, whether something is right or not), then I try to put myself in neutral position, I prefer to wait until God help me to understand it.
If it is only embedded in you.
Whether you really do not feel any instinct related with your Creator?
I tend to belief that actually every people have it.
Salm.
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Peace,
May I help Javalatte?
- God, your Master and my Master, is One, so serve The Almighty with whole your heart
- Choose no likeliness of anything in neither Heaven nor Earth and use it as an idol to get closer to God
- Avoid buying (believing) any useless narrative
- Honor your mother and father
- No adultery
- No murder
- No stealing
- Be kind to your neighbor (allegorical for like all people)
- Be content with what God bestows on you and do not be jealous
- No false testimony
There you have a list of thousands of years old commandments. Want to hear more?
That may be to keep a commemoration day for God once per week.
Want more?
I think even people who just grew up with "Christian values" but are atheists know the above list. Many schools even teach that information still as part of specific class subjects.
Have faith
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May I help Javalatte?
Of course, brother. That helps a lot.
Thank you very much. D
Salm.
Still no answer. What are those commandments?
You can read the answer above (Reply #1 mentioned by brother MoF.
If you want to know more about God's commandments, I suppose you can ask him.
Salm. )
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No problem with any good values or principles.
But does one also need to believe in trinity and other religious mantra that is associated with these?
Regard,
When you mention "values" you do not speak of the mechanics of a faith, but you talk about the behavior and actions. Like Christ's "ideas" about what is right and wrong and what is important in life. Despite the gross misconception about the deification of Jesus and creation of saints, Christianity stands for very fine ideals. Same is taught by the book called Qur'an, but is hidden in between a lot of distorted scriptural material and where things like a ritualistic prayer and other things that in fact the Messiah warned about has taken prevalence. Both the prophet called Muhammad and Jesus, as well as any other prophet, taught this
- God, your Master and my Master, is One, so serve The Almighty with whole your heart
It is always the first commandment, be it Qur'an or Gospel or the ancient Torah.
What many people forget is the subsequent intensifying commandment, which means not to have any mediators. It is something that prophet-lovers forget who ascribe a lot of important attributes to them
- Choose no likeliness of anything in neither Heaven nor Earth and use it as an idol to get closer to God
Jesus spoke "My words are not my own but of the one who sent me." It means that he told the people to heed his words because they were from the Creator, but given himself no importance in the matter. He was merely relaying the information from God. A noble deed, but it means that he was no way of a decision-maker or that he meant that anything that he did was due to himself. The man must have been one of the humblest and meekest people I have studied in a scripture. It is also why the command is; "obey God and obey the Messenger", i.e. to hearken unto the words that the prophet speaks. And the prophet will only relay the decree/commandments of God and no more. If he did otherwise then people should not listen to him and he is a false prophet.
God does not advocate sin and injustice and the decree is meant to remain the same since it was decreed to Moses as the list I gave in the previous post. That was the page of two tablets according to history. The next contains some additional details such as "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" and few additional commandments. At this time practically everything was inscribed in stone and it was not as easy as just picking up a pen and start writing. Ritualistic prayer was never the command until Jews and Muslims invented it likely inspired by Pagans, even though Jesus warned against "Pagans and their many words". It could also be understated in the translations that he was meaning the tons of hearsay that people hearken unto and preach. The bare-scraped decree could be filled as in the past on two stone tablets; so short is the actual law before every piece of conjecture is added to it.
Muhammad was commanded to utter
364 Say ?O adherents to the decree, let us come to a common understanding between us and between you; that we serve none except God, and that we do not set up anything with Him, and that none of us takes each other as patrons besides God.? If they turn away, then say ?Bear witness that we have submitted.?
Muhammad obviously included himself in the expression or he would not have been particularly consistent. And also it is supposed to be Muhammad who uttered the below scripting language saying that the people should focus on what they have learned of the decree and studied themselves. The prophet is disclaiming himself from any kind of importance, yet people focus excessively on their prophets
379 It is not for any human being that God would give him the decree and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people ?Be servants to me rather than God!? Rather ?Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the decree, and of what you have studied.?
380 Nor does He order you that you take the angels and the prophets as patrons. Would He order you to opposition after you have submitted?
381 And God took a covenant from the prophets ?For what I have given you of the decree and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you truthful to what is with you. You will believe in him and support him.? He said ?Do you testify, and agree to this burden?? They said ?We testify.? He said ?Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness.?This commandment is to avoid listening to Pagans and their many words
- Avoid buying (believing) any useless narrative
Already when coming to the third commandment in existence people have failed miserably, most of them. It is often translated as vain talk, but what really do you think that it means? It means not to conjecture, but also believe in what people have conjectured about. See 6116
6112 And as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet ? mankind and Jinn devils ? to inspire each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.
6113 That is so the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter will listen to it, and they will accept it, and they will take of it what they will.
6114 ?Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the comprehensive decree?? Those to whom We have given the decree know it is sent down from your Lord with the truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
6115 And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture and that is because they only guess.The most tragic thing is that the interpretation of Qur'an became tainted by the conjecture of men and they picked innocent words from it to delusively infer the ancient Pagan worship ritual of prostration into it, even though the best prostration is done with the heart. The interpretation we have in many cases is very tainted by hearsay through the centuries. It is gross that they even attacked the interpretation of the scripture itself, but it also happened with the Gospel testimonies written by the followers of Jesus. "Son of God" was hijacked and Father instead of Creator etc, even if it should be made obvious when Jesus said "You will be the children of God", he did not mean biological children and also he was not a son of a god, but rather like a "Man of God".
- Honor your mother and father
- No adultery
- No murder
- No stealing
These are quite obvious I think. Jesus said that adultery, for your own conscience, should be considered even when you look upon another woman than your own with desire. Avoid this.
Your mother and father should be honored because you came from them and your parents came from God (in a succession), so they should be kept in high regard.
And no murder does the ancient command say, but relayed through Jesus is that even the person who keeps anger towards a brother/sister is liable to judgment. We should work hard to forgive our surroundings. It may be hard, but not so for the pious and the people who are One with God, i.e. IMAN, MUMIM. Hatred does not solve any conflicts, but we must soothe our hearts.
- Be kind to your neighbor (allegorical for like all people)
One of the most forgotten commandment among whole Muslim community it seems, and often it only includes their own kind. What difference will it make if you are only kind towards those who are inclined towards you?
And there is also a big misconception of what faith is. This means that many people with claimed faith treat apparently "faithless" people like less worthy than their faithful kin. Hypocrites I say!
And God does not really need our faith; The Singularity knows it exists, whether we admit it or not. It should be as obvious as that you can see your hand when you raise it up in front of your eyes and behold it. What it wants however is that we become One with it and that is done with purification and following the commandments is the best way to accomplish this. That is the least you can do, and for the one that does more it is always appreciated. But do not say about God what is false and attribute inventions with God.
All that you can become is an anomaly to The Singularity, impure, incompatible with the values that God stands for, and you will be held responsible for all the bad that you have done.
And many of those who reject God does it because they feel the pathetic impression of world "religions", but many of them still think that there is a Creator within their consciousness. Those who feel that way and do good for a subconscious thought that they will be held responsible or simply because they become GOOD, may be saved. What do you think that God wants us to become one with?
But oppose God you only do when you cause injustice and oppression. It is different from denying the existence of God.
It is foolish to deny the existence of God when you came out of The Singularity and to it you shall return, but it is not the worst issue out there.
I would say that God would take a goodly atheist any day over a bad Muslim who indulged in a lot of conjecture and guesswork but who adhered to five times ritualistic prayer per day, fasted 1/12 of a year, and often expressed "Allahu Akbar", and said "There is no other divinity than God" but his heart did not say it. At least the atheist did not believe in anything other than he could see... the creation, which is part of The Singularity.
- Be content with what God bestows on you and do not be jealous
Often the cause of much anger and show of unappreciative thoughts. And it causes you to suffer yourself and struggle hard to obtain worthless possessions that brings no merit towards wholeness with God. We buy ourselves things that we may have what others have instead of realizing if we have God then we need no more than the necessary tools for living and communication (in today's IT society).
If we bought cheaper stuff and had not so many contracts that sent bills each month we would have much more money to live for in case of a financial issue.
And if we were living small we would also have more monetary funds to help others.
- No false testimony
I think it is the hardest commandment to uphold of them all. It is always easy to make an occasional lie slip into our lives especially when we want to avoid problems, but if we planned our lives in a good way we could avoid lying at all. The commandment means to change the scene of events or condition to misrepresent what happened or how things really are when you talk to any person. It is anywhere and not only in a court, as many misunderstand the commandment. Any lying is a disadvantage to us and we break the commandment and we should regard it. Of course there is a varying degree of severity, but it is always a breaking of the commandment whenever we lie.
It would be impressive to me if anyone in adult age here has never lied. Surely I would be impressed and I mean it. Avoid this.
Of course there are special cases of lying as if withdrawing from the truth if the receiver would risk their health if they heard, especially if they already have many problems. But oftentimes the person would rather have heard I think.
Not gossiping about what happens is not lying though if someone asks on the phone if something particular has happened and you answer "only the usual" even if your family has torn itself to pieces in domestic affairs (arguments without violence).
Ah well; its application is to the discretion of each person and we are ourselves responsible of how we apply the rules, but I was only explaining the mechanics of them and that they may involve more than we think. I think any person can find the right balance if they only put their mind to it. Lying for any personal gain is the worst.
Be whole