Would like to learn more....
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Thank you for your kind words! I apologise for my late reply...
I have started reading the Quran from the beginning in order to learn more, taking note of verses I am unsure of for later reflection.
I've also looked at other forums, but it seems that there are many who are hostile towards Quran only Muslims....?
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Hi, Welcome )
I am glad you found your way here. Your story is similar to mine except that I was raised in Sunni family even though I did not know what Sunni is until I found out. I always thought I was Muslim and never agreed to apostasy rules, stoning people to death for adultery, and all and some I just made peace with. But still, I always thought they are lying about it or just do not know. My love for God and Prophet Mohammad never went though. I always thought it is the people who are lying about Islam until I searched and found out the barbaric shria law and all in Sunni. I cried thinking this is actually the true Islam and couldn't stop wonder why will God say all this. Despite this, I did not stop believing in God nor stop loving him. But to cut the story short, I came upon Qur'an alone recently. I think it is because I always prayed to God to guide me always and I still do. Those prayers were answered. I even became agnostic recently because of all the confusion of what was right and what was wrong. Thankfully, God guided me and I hope God keeps guiding me and all of us.
Us Muslims, who follow only Qur'an, are hated because 98%+ of Muslims are secterians and follow Hadiths etc. Do not worry about them, and btw, read the Qur'an from this site as it is non-secterian. Other Qur'an translations have sectarian bias and the translates put their own opinions in brackets confusing others and mixing human words with God's. And make sure to seek guidance from God by praying after every time you read Qur'an. It says in Qur'an to do this as Satan will try its best to deviate us when we are learning and going on straight path.
I know this will be difficult time for you, at least it is for me. There will be many doubts coming. But if we are honest and want to be guided by praying to God and putting all trust on God alone, we will be guided. I am still learning and reading Qur'an. I am so far in third chapter. I take notes of whatever I read like write the Chap number etc for every rule/law it is in Qur'an.
May God guide us all and bless us, and God alone knows the best.
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Peace,
The struggle does not stop when one discards all the hadith though. Then you have to combat a completely perverted scripture instead and narrations of old.
Have faith
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Salam FindingRightPathToAllah,
The laws about stoning and apostasy always scared me. The media in my home country Australia loves highlighting these laws and stating that they are Islamic laws (hence Australia 'shouldn't allow Muslims into the country' but all these laws seem to come from ahadith rather than the Qu'ran...I have only read just under half the chapters in the Qu'ran, yet I'm yet to come across any verses sanctioning stoning or killing. It's sad that People are claiming that Islam=Syariah law.
While I am still learning and studying about Islam and the Qu'ran, I am worried about people's reactions if they knew I was learning about Qu'ran only Islam. I've seen some pretty horrible reactions on forums to Qu'ran only Muslims..
I wish you the best in your reading of the Qu'ran! I've been reading it online but I'll follow your advice and read the one on this site.
Thank you again for your kind words and advice!
Seeking -
Salam Man of Faith,
I guess the upside is that without the Hadith, it might be easier to understand the Qu'ran? I haven't read any Hadith so I can't speak from experience, but from what (admittedly, little) I have read of the Qu'ran, it is a lot easier to read than, say, the Christian Bible.
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The laws about stoning and apostasy always scared me. The media in my home country Australia loves highlighting these laws and stating that they are Islamic laws (hence Australia 'shouldn't allow Muslims into the country' but all these laws seem to come from ahadith rather than the Qu'ran...I have only read just under half the chapters in the Qu'ran, yet I'm yet to come across any verses sanctioning stoning or killing. It's sad that People are claiming that Islam=Syariah law.
Stoning and the death penalty for apostasy, both are not mentioned in the Qur'an.
I think "sharia law" is one of the major scams in this world.
Salm.
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I apologise for the length of my post. I wish to include my reasons for coming here and posting. Any responses or advice would be most appreciated!
welcome
No need to apologize, you're not guility of anything.I was raised in a Christian (very relaxed, no church attendance or anything) home, but after being scolded in school R.E classes for asking questions, and being told that I had to accept or go to hell, I stopped believing. I became agnostic for several years, but I've always felt that there was something missing in me.
You're free to ask any questions here..
Questioning things is a sign that your brain is at work.Seeing how, despite religion these girls were just like me, I began to read a bit about Islam and what I read, I found drawn to. However, reading about the ahadith ( I hope I'm using the correct term) and the conflicts between Sunni and Shi'a and other Islamic denominations scared me. For a peaceful religion, there is an awful lot of bloodshed and hatred..
islam is not a religion it's an attitude.
Having said that, the religion of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are indeed full of bloodshed, conflicts and hatred, since around 3000 years ago up until today.
Then the other day (literally the other day!) I came across a blog written by a woman who calls herself a Quran only Muslim. From her entries and her reasoning of why she doesn't accept the Hadith, I began to wonder if Quran only Islam might be what I'm seeking. I find myself agreeing to what I've been reading about it, and I've been thinking constantly about what I've read and how I feel about it.
I believe it's God that you might be seeking and not some human written books...
I still don't know if Islam is what I seek, but I hope that just by searching and learning I will find what it is I'm looking for.
Being islam is the recommended attitude, which is
"Let Your will be done, on earth as it's in heaven"
(Matt 6)Life is a journey, and it will be full with joy and also tears.. nonetheless the above attitude shall help you getting through it.
Salam / Peace
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Salam Man of Faith,
I guess the upside is that without the Hadith, it might be easier to understand the Qu'ran? I haven't read any Hadith so I can't speak from experience, but from what (admittedly, little) I have read of the Qu'ran, it is a lot easier to read than, say, the Christian Bible.
Well. The "hadith" does surely not help in any way except to cloud your mind. I would not open a "hadith book" and be ready to risk believing in anything that it says. I studied Bukhari for strictly educational purposes a while back and I am surprised that anyone believes in the garbage at all. They make the faith into a mockery, a joke.
But unfortunately the people behind (probably exactly them) the hadith managed to taint the interpretation of the recitation called Qur'an while they were at it, so what you read is not always what the original language wanted to convey. Things like cutting hands, polygamy, ritualistic prayer, holy house in Mecca, and tons of other nonsensical stuff is also an object of their imagination who tried to interpret it and failed miserably and was unfortunately canonized as law and followed strictly for centuries, even over a millennium now.
The historical war that emerged that we know about was likely between both power-hungry people and people who defended the real decree, what was really what the prophet had said. There is only unreliable sources, but there are small stories of people who wanted to adhere only to what the Qur'an said and they were incredibly suppressed and could as well have been annihilated and extinct. What I suspect is that the scripture was also abandoned for years and later found somehow and interpreted by people who could not really interpret it and they inserted verse numbering that is faulty by often splitting up clauses and they added diacritical marks according to their understanding which cause confusion now when we are trying to understand it. We became lost in translation by other words and the "hadith" that was compiled to give understanding to the decree also was used to understand the book called Qur'an. We can clearly see that the "hadith" is compiled by those who perverted the interpretation because in these inventions the same linguistic errors reoccur, for example, words' meaning.
While I am still learning and studying about Islam and the Qu'ran, I am worried about people's reactions if they knew I was learning about Qu'ran only Islam. I've seen some pretty horrible reactions on forums to Qu'ran only Muslims..
You should feel honored and not frightened. It is them that are wrong and not you. But do not engage in discussions if you are not confident because they may give you things you may hearken onto before you are ready for it.
I wish you the best in your reading of the Qu'ran! I've been reading it online but I'll follow your advice and read the one on this site.
The one on this forum is among the best translations available using relatively traditional understanding, but you may not trust it blindly.
Have faith
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Us Muslims, who follow only Qur'an, are hated because 98%+ of Muslims are secterians and follow Hadiths etc. Do not worry about them, and btw, read the Qur'an from this site as it is non-secterian. Other Qur'an translations have sectarian bias and the translates put their own opinions in brackets confusing others and mixing human words with God's. And make sure to seek guidance from God by praying after every time you read Qur'an. It says in Qur'an to do this as Satan will try its best to deviate us when we are learning and going on straight path.
References of major difference between the sectarian and this non-sectarian translation?
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I've also looked at other forums, but it seems that there are many who are hostile towards Quran only Muslims....?
Welcome to the forum, I hope you find what you are seeking.
Online people tend to be a lot more hostile than real life. Generally muslims like to help or "guide" people to islam if that is the persons interest. So if you did mention to someone in the open about following the Quran and disregarding hadith they would say it's a dangerous thing to do, an erroneous act or you don't have enough knowledge to understand.
Muslims feel offended. The reason is because it is perceived as "intentionally refusing to follow the prophet" so I guess it comes across as offensive or maybe even irrational. Though, not only the prophet but also it comes across as disregarding learned scholarly work.
Unfortunately majority of people that I have come across have a misinformed and misunderstanding of how muslims who uphold the Quran, follow the Quran.
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Peace,
And most fall victim to the phenomenon of 6116, sadly enough.
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Salam (I apologise for the lateness of my replies! I have been reading everyone's messages, but unfortunately my work has been very hectic lately so I haven't been able to sit down and reply...)
I have no idea how to quote replies very well, so if this is hard to read, I apologise!
Stoning and the death penalty for apostasy, both are not mentioned in the Qur'an.
I think "sharia law" is one of the major scams in this world.
Salm.
I remember reading a book on the history of Islam (I really regret leaving it in storage when I moved overseas, I want to read it again!) about how Syariah law is not Islam, but based on a mix of local cultural practices and ahadith which are now considered as part of Islam. It saddens me to see how people are abusing the religion in order to control people (though it's not just the people promoting Syariah-this happens in every religion unfortunately...)
welcome
No need to apologize, you're not guility of anything.You're free to ask any questions here..
Questioning things is a sign that your brain is at work.islam is not a religion it's an attitude.
Having said that, the religion of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are indeed full of bloodshed, conflicts and hatred, since around 3000 years ago up until today.
I believe it's God that you might be seeking and not some human written books...
Being islam is the recommended attitude, which is
"Let Your will be done, on earth as it's in heaven"
(Matt 6)Life is a journey, and it will be full with joy and also tears.. nonetheless the above attitude shall help you getting through it.
Salam / Peace
I just wish the teachers who taught the RE classes in my primary school had been as open minded as the people on this forum. I remember asking a question regarding something in the Bible (I can't remember the details, sorry) and the teacher's response was 'because it's in the Bible.' No discussion, or explanation, or anything. I asked a few more questions in a few later lessons, and all I got was 'because it's in the Bible' or 'because God said it is.' I understand faith is accepting things that may not have a clear answer, but he always seemed frustrated with me because I had asked a question. '(
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Well. The "hadith" does surely not help in any way except to cloud your mind. I would not open a "hadith book" and be ready to risk believing in anything that it says. I studied Bukhari for strictly educational purposes a while back and I am surprised that anyone believes in the garbage at all. They make the faith into a mockery, a joke.
But unfortunately the people behind (probably exactly them) the hadith managed to taint the interpretation of the recitation called Qur'an while they were at it, so what you read is not always what the original language wanted to convey. Things like cutting hands, polygamy, ritualistic prayer, holy house in Mecca, and tons of other nonsensical stuff is also an object of their imagination who tried to interpret it and failed miserably and was unfortunately canonized as law and followed strictly for centuries, even over a millennium now.
The historical war that emerged that we know about was likely between both power-hungry people and people who defended the real decree, what was really what the prophet had said. There is only unreliable sources, but there are small stories of people who wanted to adhere only to what the Qur'an said and they were incredibly suppressed and could as well have been annihilated and extinct. What I suspect is that the scripture was also abandoned for years and later found somehow and interpreted by people who could not really interpret it and they inserted verse numbering that is faulty by often splitting up clauses and they added diacritical marks according to their understanding which cause confusion now when we are trying to understand it. We became lost in translation by other words and the "hadith" that was compiled to give understanding to the decree also was used to understand the book called Qur'an. We can clearly see that the "hadith" is compiled by those who perverted the interpretation because in these inventions the same linguistic errors reoccur, for example, words' meaning.
You should feel honored and not frightened. It is them that are wrong and not you. But do not engage in discussions if you are not confident because they may give you things you may hearken onto before you are ready for it.
The one on this forum is among the best translations available using relatively traditional understanding, but you may not trust it blindly.
Have faith
To be honest, I don't think I've read any hadith before, but from what I've heard and read about them, is that they are used in Syariah law and were written well after the passing of the Prophet, but I thought the Qu'ran said that it is a complete text and that you do not need other texts to understand it? (I could be wrong, if I am please correct me!)
I have started reading the Qu'ran translation from this site, however the more I look at the Arabic in other Qu'ran translations, I'm seriously considering studying Arabic...are there textbooks on Classical Arabic I wonder....?
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peace,
You are doing the right thing by reading The Quran. Best to read alongside study tools, such as those here.
With regard to stoning not being from Quran, you can read about this here
http//learn-about-islam.com/2011/10/31/stoning-to-death-allowed-2/Thank you very much for the link! It did clear up a few questions I had regarding some of the verses (it could just be that I'm mentally burnt out as of late, but sometimes I'll be reading the Qu'ran and although it's in English, I get very confused as to what it means...I am definitely going to have to take some time to sit down and read it much slower than I have been-I get really interested in it and I find myself reading quickly but not taking the time to actually think about what I've read. It's a big problem of mine that I need to work on.)
I have read about just under half of the chapters in the Qu'ran, and I haven't found a single reference to stoning, cutting off of hands or the oppresssion of women in it. It seems that all the negative attention that Islam receives is solely due to extremist groups and Syariah law, and not actually due to the religion itself.
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Welcome to the forum, I hope you find what you are seeking.
Online people tend to be a lot more hostile than real life. Generally muslims like to help or "guide" people to islam if that is the persons interest. So if you did mention to someone in the open about following the Quran and disregarding hadith they would say it's a dangerous thing to do, an erroneous act or you don't have enough knowledge to understand.
Muslims feel offended. The reason is because it is perceived as "intentionally refusing to follow the prophet" so I guess it comes across as offensive or maybe even irrational. Though, not only the prophet but also it comes across as disregarding learned scholarly work.
Unfortunately majority of people that I have come across have a misinformed and misunderstanding of how muslims who uphold the Quran, follow the Quran.
Is it true that if you see a Musim brother/sister doing something that is not in line with Islamic beliefs, you are to (gently) remind them so that they can correct themselves? If so, I can understand why people may be against others not following the hadith, and how they may see it as refusing to follow the Prophet/ authenticated hadith.
However, if someone holds different beliefs regarding Islam, why are they so hostile towards them? It is true that people can be more aggressive on the internet towards others of differing beliefs, but I just can't understand why we can't just support each other? If we hold different beliefs, but are sincere, isn't that enough? Why do some people feel that they have to try and bully others into believing what they do??
As I have literally just started reading the Qu'ran, I know nothing about Islam, but I see this hostility towards Muslims who may have differing opinions and views and it scares me. I know that not all Muslims are like this and that there is aggressiveness in many religions over differing beliefs, but....I don't know....why can't we all just get along? (Yes, I am this naive... -[ )
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Peace,
And most fall victim to the phenomenon of 6116, sadly enough.
(I just had to rush over to the Qu'ran to look that verse up....I am amazed at how people can quote verses of the Qu'ran, I find it beautiful that they know it so well that they can use it like this ) )
Sorry, I am taking this verse to mean that the Muslims who follow the major sects are possibly straying away from Allah as they are assuming that they are right, but in doing so they are actually going in the other direction? Is this what you meant?
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To be honest, I don't think I've read any hadith before, but from what I've heard and read about them, is that they are used in Syariah law and were written well after the passing of the Prophet, but I thought the Qu'ran said that it is a complete text and that you do not need other texts to understand it? (I could be wrong, if I am please correct me!)
I have started reading the Qu'ran translation from this site, however the more I look at the Arabic in other Qu'ran translations, I'm seriously considering studying Arabic...are there textbooks on Classical Arabic I wonder....?
No I think you misunderstand me. You should absolutely never use any source to interpret the Qur'an or at least use it to think you have the ultimate understanding. Particularly "hadith" books reveal the errors of what words mean in Qur'an. And when you find them you realize that the interpretation is an inference by the people who wrote the hadith, their faulty one. The point is then that you can never use them to confirm what words mean in Qur'an. That is a big trap. The persistent salat ritual is one of them in my opinion.
(I just had to rush over to the Qu'ran to look that verse up....I am amazed at how people can quote verses of the Qu'ran, I find it beautiful that they know it so well that they can use it like this ) )
Yes. But it really sucks when they quote passages with a faulty interpretation/translation. Particularly the "Contact prayer" phrase is like a needle to my eye every time it occurs in Monotheist translation. I have to see it myself every time because I do not yet have any own finished translation. But I can live with it. It is no problem. My mind auto-corrects it when I read it. And I more and more read the plain Arabic instead.
It is just a shame that my "study tool" does not have the Monotheist Translation in its options and I have to live with the awkward Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation (although it is better than the grossly sectarian translations).
Sorry, I am taking this verse to mean that the Muslims who follow the major sects are possibly straying away from Allah as they are assuming that they are right, but in doing so they are actually going in the other direction? Is this what you meant?
The 6116 talks about those who listen to the traditional interpretation of God's decree which leads them into a world of conjecture and guesswork. That is what the passage talks about. It is hard not to unless we work really hard interpreting and/or one of us progresses in his/her understanding, but it is always something worth keeping in mind. But the lesson in that passage is not to simply listen to what someone says and then blindly think that they told you the right version, particularly if a lot of weird stuff is involved and the tradition is very old and seems primitive and often senseless, and the building in Mecca is as bad as that it is straight against the commandment of God to take the likeliness of anything in Heaven or Earth to bring you closer to God. See how illogical traditions people have.
I have started reading the Qu'ran translation from this site, however the more I look at the Arabic in other Qu'ran translations, I'm seriously considering studying Arabic...are there textbooks on Classical Arabic I wonder....?
There are such books, but I would not put my faith at stake by believing in them blindly. However, it may be useful to read grammar books just to get the gist in how the language works but then not give your life to the accuracy of the grammar. You can likely just google it.
http//corpus.quran.com is a good site to study the Arabic in various ways, even if the meanings of the words are often sectarian, so you have to still have enabled your critical thinking. It is a decent way of getting the hang of the Arabic grammar by studying each word in a succession. And if you do not know the sounds (phonology) of the Arabic letters that is the first thing you may want to learn. And how it is spoken can somehow be learned by reading a transliteration, however I say that if you learn the phonology then how words in a succession sounds will be produced automatically once you talk. Not sure where you are from, but pronouncing Arabic can feel a bit strange. There are many kinds of sounds and combinations of sounds not common to those who speak English for example.
I also use a study tool called Zekr. Works nice in the way that you can type in a root word and then it lists every single passage in the recitation called Qur'an that contains a derived word from that root word. A minus is that it is still a project by sectarians and it lacks decent translations, but if you need to study the Arabic it works fine. And you can easily copy-paste the Arabic passages from it.
However, if someone holds different beliefs regarding Islam, why are they so hostile towards them?
To be honest, friend, the tone in a traditional interpretation is very unfriendly from God's point of view. It feels like a grumpy old man who is very unloving and hateful towards people. This is likely contaminating the whole sects of people adhering to this book. This is why it is wise learning the Arabic or getting confidence for someone who manages to translate it properly. God's tone is not unfriendly but it is just a exaggerated negative meaning assigned to the words very often. It also feels, traditionally, that God wants a lot of stuff that appears senseless and the most important thing that occurs as the second passage in the whole Qur'an (except chapter 1) is to establish a contact prayer as if that is all that God wants, five times per day... and no matter what kind of amount it is still nonsensical to me.
Apostates are to be killed, traditionally, that is a reason why many sectarians are very hostile towards people with differing views. And it is very easy to be an apostate. Merely disbelieving in things like ritualistic prayer causes you to be an apostate. Or you can merely question their practices and adherence to hadith and you are considered an apostate. Free-minded thinking is forbidden in Islam, according to them. Because then Satan entices you they say.
Be whole
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I guess I should stay away from hadith as much as possible then...
Hopefully I will be able to start learning at least some basic Arabic grammar and words to help me understand the Qu'ran better. I would like to read the Qu'ran in Japanese too, but for some reason Japanese bookstores never stock Qu'ran. I have been to 3 or 4 major bookstores and I've looked for the Qu'ran in Japanese, and although they have about 50 copies of the Gospel and a shelf and a half dedicated to books on Christianity, they never have the Qu'ran, and hardly any books about Islam. It can be a little frustrating...
(If you don't mind me asking, when the Monotheistic Translation uses the term 'contact prayer' what do you call it instead?)
It sounds like 6116 is kind of saying 'think for yourself and don't just accept everything blindly?' I think more people (of all beliefs and faiths) should heed this a little more.
Thank you for the links and information regarding Arabic! I am Australian so my first language is English, however I have studied Indonesian and Japanese, so I'm used to trying to imitate unfamiliar pronunciation. I guess I'll just have to take it slowly and try my best to learn the basics first, and gradually work up from there. It would be amazing to read the Qu'ran in the original Arabic.
The hostility between different Islamic groups is quite scary to me. The idea of killing someone for apostasy because they ask questions or do things differently seems extreme. As I am not Muslim maybe it's not my place to say anything, but if someone sees another doing something differently in their faith, does it really affect them? I personally would just try my best to do the best I can, and not judge others for their differences, as they are probably trying to do the best that they can too. I guess this could apply to all people though...
I was thinking about contacting a mesjid not too far from my home to learn more about Islam, but because I'm worried I might anger someone if I appear to not agree with certain things (i.e hadith) I'm wondering if I should just avoid mesjid altogether? At the same time though, I feel as if I'm missing out on learning more by not going....
Thank you again for replying to my posts and questions. Although I still know practically nothing about Islam, I find myself constantly thinking about it, so I hope that's a sign that I will be able to learn more.
(P.S-I apologise if I'm spelling any Arabic-based words strangely. Pretty much all the Arabic words I know are from my Indonesian studies, which seem to be fairly different to their originals (i.e. jilbab vs hijab) so if my posts seem strange, I'm sorry!)
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I can't read Japanese but have you tried google? https//www.alislam.org/quran/Holy-Quran-Japanese.pdf
The hostility between different Islamic groups is quite scary to me.
Yeh even to muslims, though it's not really that bad in Australia. There might be a few idiots but it's mainly just ignorance. Besides no-one is going to kill you there for apostasy. I think for most people it's the idea of shaming the family and more about traditions and social status than religiousness.You could go to the local masjid and contact them no big deal. Just tell them you want to learn about islam. Though I believe you'd be going to learn their islamic ideology so inevitably at some point they'd end up teaching you about hadith, like it or not.
