5:101
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Haha cricket balls! Good on you... I wouldn't have thought of bulbs in a double socket as a bosom of a woman though, um, quick thinking there...Now I feel I want to discuss political stuff with you regarding Pakistan, will PM.
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Apparent and concealed can cover all these, but what I'm asking is...are such acts crimes, to be punishable by the state as per the quran if they occur in public...? Can some of them be subjectively interpreted as fawahisha's as per the quran? Are fawahisha's as per the quran clear cut and completely listed? If so, can anything other than that be called a fahisha subject to interpretation, and if so, can it be called as per the quran? I'm not getting a clear answer, I mean yes or no will suffice for a start. I don't want to keep repeating in different ways because it's tedious, as I mentioned, I'll get back to you later if I find I have the time or will to do that.
Since the meanings of fahahsi in Arabic are clear cut and state has also the authority to make it a cognizable offence, it can be listed in the law instead of leaving it open to interpretation; for an Islamic state. It can start from listing down apparent fahashi detriment to public. Some are already perhaps in the law book, here in Pakistan.
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Mazhar, I have my reservations regarding something clear cut applied in particular ways due to various reasons. We can definitely discuss them further. The balance between enforceable laws in public and personal freedoms in public is difficult to achieve and probably would or should go through cycles.
What happened to this thread...?? _
Salm... >
Dude, honestly what is with these types of comments. If you don't find what you're looking for, read another thread...if you want 5101 to be discussed, post something along those lines or better yet, discuss it. It's not as if I'm saying that's it, 5101 is dead and gone and no one may post anything about it ever. Or even that I said, ONLY 5101 etc can ever be discussed in my op. I've mentioned this in posts on the board before, there are natural ways a discussion can go from the original topic and it's not a big deal depending on how it's done. I don't post on various threads due to various reasons; wanting to discuss something on my thread that is brought up in regards to the original topic and so on is causing issues to the point of people stating the obvious and posting googly eyes at the shock and horror...? No one is being rude, impolite or acting like a jerk on the thread in regards to the topics discussed, the thread starter is cool with it, so live and let live a bit eh )
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There was another comment saying the same which wasn't a joke, so forgive me if it was supposed to be taken as a joke, I didn't find it how it could be taken as one or my sense of humour is very strange. In fact I was so annoyed I thought of posting a video of a test cricket match but decided that would be too cruel, even for me.
Peace
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There was another comment saying the same which wasn't a joke, so forgive me if it was supposed to be taken as a joke, I didn't find it how it could be taken as one or my sense of humour is very strange. In fact I was so annoyed I thought of posting a video of a test cricket match but decided that would be too cruel, even for me.
Test cricket? ;D You still remember one of my weaknesses. ;D
Okay, don't kill me with such boredomeness (or I will need faint emoticon...).
and posting googly eyes at the shock and horror...?
You mean this one? ---> _
If I'm not mistaken, I saw one of my Muslim sisters used it on an art site, and I suppose she used it not for serious purpose.
I'm sorry, I guess I didn't think that it will invite serious responses.
Salm.
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Test cricket? ;D You still remember one of my weaknesses. ;D
Okay, don't kill me with such boredomeness (or I will need faint emoticon...).
Yep, and I'm going to use it one day.You mean this one? ---> _
If I'm not mistaken, I saw one of my Muslim sisters used it on an art site, and I suppose she used it not for serious purpose.
I'm sorry, I guess I didn't think that it will invite serious responses.
Salm.
Nah, that emoticon is something denoting a 'what the heck'/'can't believe what I'm reading' type of meaning, the closest correlating emoticon for that on this site would be , or this wow used sarcastically, even this hypno if one was to stretch it to it's maximum or minimum depending on mood.
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Forgive me i bring a hadith to throw light on this. I can't remember textually, but it is in itself an indictment of hadiths.
It goes int he sense that people asked the prophet this, and then this, and then this, asking for details of this and more details, and he was bothered not because he did not wnat to answer or they annoyed him but because he felt that automatically when he said anything they would take as an order and not as his feeling or opinion, so at a certain point he said do not ask me so much, because afterwards you will feel bound by what I say, and it is not obligations it is just my opinion.
The thing is that may be the Qur'an points to that. That we are not in a position yet to know certain things, and if we push we may get answer we cannot understand or do not make sense, because we lack the knowledge of the ground on which those questions rest.
For instance, scientific matters. Any question about ADN or which inolved it at a certain time, my throw people into the weirdest beliefs, because they did not have a map of where those things fit. So, in due course they might be answered but not there and then.
That is something I could make of it right now.
Salaam
I completely agree, as people usually asks questions like "What is God" "have you seen signs" , things completely out of explanations for some level of knowledge that lead to instant rejection without thinking if it could be the truth or not. Try to enter a group of atheists and enjoy giveup
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Yep, and I'm going to use it one day.
I better prepare some extra lives then. ;D
Nah, that emoticon is something denoting a 'what the heck'/'can't believe what I'm reading' type of meaning, the closest correlating emoticon for that on this site would be o, or this wow used sarcastically, even this hypno if one was to stretch it to it's maximum or minimum depending on mood.
Thanks for telling me, sis. I think I need to be careful next time if I decide to use it again. )
Salm.
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Al Bender, I'll try to put it in a clearer way...I was asking if the questions that were being asked ( = if revealed to you would harm you) were going to be answered after/during? (not sure what the consensus is on what the right word is here) the quran has been sent down or the reasoning behind why we shouldn't be asking such questions (= if revealed to you would harm you) be clear after/during the quran has been sent down.
salaam,
A sentence of 72 words, 3 brackets and 2 slashes is a clearer way brickwall
If we knew the questions would harm us, why would we still seek answers unless we were self destructive...?
First of al I think the verse is translated wrong by all translators I read so far.
In my opinion this part " " is 1 sentence. But all the translators I read so far see this part " " also as a sentence or as a sub phrase.
FM translation if you ask about them after the Qur'an has been sent down, then they will become clear to you. God pardons for them,
I think it should be read something like this
if you ask about them after/while/during the Qur'an has been sent down, it will be cleared for you the pardoning of Allah for them.It looks almost the same but there is a subtle nuance, I hope you can understand what I mean. I think if you understand this little difference it will help a lot to understand the verse better.
RED Not the questions will harm us but the answers ignore
btw. I believe "harm" is a bit mistranslated. Not harm us but brings is in psychological black state.GREEN No we are not self destructive, we are curious and also proud. This causes us to ask for things we are not yet ready for, thus when we have an answer to our question, the first thing we do is object against the answer even if we can not bring a single argument against it. So we become rejecters.
BUT if we ask them " " then the pardoning of Allah for them will be cleared to us.I left the Arabic part " " untranslated because you will reject my understanding, so do not ask me about it, and be a mumina and a do what is advised to you in 5101 >(
But if we were more aware of the reasons for asking said questions and the possible ramifications we'd understand? Thus, can it be referring to something other than the fact that it's not the questions/questioning but the mindset behind the questions...? So were these questions going to be answered let's just say by the quran, or the reasoning behind why the questions are being left open ended or whatever also by the quran. The fact that we are pardoned for asking them, but then a people before us had asked the same and became rejecters, begs the question whether it was the answers or the line of reasoning behind the inquiries that did them in. If it was the answers, I find it hard to accept that the truth can make one a rejecter, hence must be the line of reasoning/mindset behind the questions. A little knowledge being a dangerous thing also comes to mind.
I hope my answer above answers also these questions.
Salaam,
Bender -
There were no further responses regarding the topic, when there are, I'll discuss them. The present discussion has gone towards zina because of an example used while posting about the topic, I don't see it as a problem since some people are Bender is slower to post than others, various things get talked about in the meanwhile. I personally find it of interest. Do you have anything to add to 'imaginary adultery punishment'...? If not, that's okay.
Salaam,
RED I know you had me in mind >
What a subtle but nasty way to give green light to your off topic discussion and in mean time speak bad about me >Salaam,
Bender -
A sentence of 72 words, 3 brackets and 2 slashes is a clearer way
I forgot you're linguistically challenged by certain languages...or certain people perhaps PI hope my answer above answers also these questions.
Thank YOU. Really. Those are the sort of answers I was hoping to get to my questions. Will go through it, piece some things together I have on my mind and discuss it if I need to.Salaam,
RED I know you had me in mind >(
What a subtle but nasty way to give green light to your off topic discussion and in mean time speak bad about me >(Salaam,
BenderLol, that's right, can't pull a fast one over you, you dance on the edges of cuts. A cutting edge dancer is you.
Salaam,
No not agreed ignore , at least it has to be like this
Zina is a Fahashi, but it does not mean that Fahashi is a Zina.
salaam,
BenderNo need to be pedantic and bend it like Beckham...whoops, did I remind you of the WC loss, my bad. I'd probably say something like zina is a fahishi but not all fahishi is a zina.
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salaam,
First of al I think the verse is translated wrong by all translators I read so far.
In my opinion this part " " is 1 sentence. But all the translators I read so far see this part " " also as a sentence or as a sub phrase.
FM translation if you ask about them after the Qur'an has been sent down, then they will become clear to you. God pardons for them,
I think it should be read something like this
if you ask about them after/while/during the Qur'an has been sent down, it will be cleared for you the pardoning of Allah for them.It looks almost the same but there is a subtle nuance, I hope you can understand what I mean. I think if you understand this little difference it will help a lot to understand the verse better.
RED Not the questions will harm us but the answers ignore
btw. I believe "harm" is a bit mistranslated. Not harm us but brings is in psychological black state.GREEN No we are not self destructive, we are curious and also proud. This causes us to ask for things we are not yet ready for, thus when we have an answer to our question, the first thing we do is object against the answer even if we can not bring a single argument against it. So we become rejecters.
BUT if we ask them " " then the pardoning of Allah for them will be cleared to us.I left the Arabic part " " untranslated because you will reject my understanding, so do not ask me about it, and be a mumina and a do what is advised to you in 5101 >(
I hope my answer above answers also these questions.
Salaam,
BenderThe passive verb indicates ongoing act, not finished act.
It is a separate verbal sentence, a past tense verb does not link to jussive mood imperfect verbs and neither there is conjunct waw in between.
The issue is about feminine plural noun, regarding certain things, matters, issues, substances. Verbs are also feminine, thereby.
O those/you who proclaim to have accepted-become believers, listen;
You should not ask seeking answers about such matters, which if disclosed for you, it would be embarrassing or troublesome for you people
Take note, if you ask about such matters during the ongoing intermittent revelation of Qur'aan, it would be disclosed for you. Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters.
Be cognizant, Allah the Exalted is eternally imperturbably over looking-forgiver -
I forgot you're linguistically challenged by certain languages...or certain people perhaps
Salaam,
By certain people who use certain languages.
Thank YOU. Really. Those are the sort of answers I was hoping to get to my questions. Will go through it, piece some things together I have on my mind and discuss it if I need to.
red Thx!!
green handshake looking forward to read sentences with at least 72 words and a lot of brackets and slashes eatLol, that's right, can't pull a fast one over you, you dance on the edges of cuts. A cutting edge dancer is you.
yes I float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. Your hands can't hit what my eyes can't see.
No need to be pedantic and bend it like Beckham...whoops, did I remind you of the WC loss, my bad. I'd probably say something like zina is a fahishi but not all fahishi is a zina.
Red did you see it? If so, do you recommend it? Is it a Bollywood movie which plays in England or a British movie with some punjabi's?
Salaam,
Bender -
The passive verb indicates ongoing act, not finished act.
Salaam,
thank you! I will take your commend in my research how to understand ""
It is a separate verbal sentence, a past tense verb does not link to jussive mood imperfect verbs and neither there is conjunct waw in between.
I do not agree with this.
In the Arabic text there is no pause there. And making it a new sentence does not make sense to me.
What does " " mean? Well I know you translated it as " Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters "
But I mean what has it to do with the rest of the ayaat? What has questioning and getting answers to do with the fact that Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters ?
If you have a reasonable explanation then I will for sure ponder about it.The issue is about feminine plural noun, regarding certain things, matters, issues, substances. Verbs are also feminine, thereby.
O those/you who proclaim to have accepted-become believers, listen;
You should not ask seeking answers about such matters, which if disclosed for you, it would be embarrassing or troublesome for you people
Take note, if you ask about such matters during the ongoing intermittent revelation of Qur'aan, it would be disclosed for you. Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters.
Be cognizant, Allah the Exalted is eternally imperturbably over looking-forgiverI think the issue is " "
But I think what makes this verse difficult is how to fit in the context of the verse, thus how to understand in the context of the verse. At least that looks to me the most difficult part.
The other difficult part and I think wrongfully misunderstood by most (if not all of us) is, how to understand " "
Salaam,
bender -
Salaam,
thank you! I will take your commend in my research how to understand ""
I do not agree with this.
In the Arabic text there is no pause there. And making it a new sentence does not make sense to me.
What does " " mean? Well I know you translated it as " Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters "
But I mean what has it to do with the rest of the ayaat? What has questioning and getting answers to do with the fact that Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters ?
If you have a reasonable explanation then I will for sure ponder about it.I think the issue is " "
But I think what makes this verse difficult is how to fit in the context of the verse, thus how to understand in the context of the verse. At least that looks to me the most difficult part.
The other difficult part and I think wrongfully misunderstood by most (if not all of us) is, how to understand " "
Salaam,
benderSalam,
It is like dependant clause of sentence in English grammar. is a time adverb and when used with a construct - like possessive phrase, it denotes "while". ---while the Qur'aan is being revealed intermittently.
Regarding pause, it is naturally present because of the pause by silent radical - without vowel on its preceding word . It is a complete verbal sentence, not a phrase or dependant clause; having verb, subject and a prespositional phrase relating to verb. The object pronoun of preposition refers to . Thus it is evident that this informative sentence is related to the point at issue
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Salam,
It is like dependant clause of sentence in English grammar. is a time adverb and when used with a construct - like possessive phrase, it denotes "while". ---while the Qur'aan is being revealed intermittently.
Salaam,
RED what possessive phrase are you talking about?
GREEN I just did a little bit of research and I do not agree with the "while" understanding.
from this verse and others
3942
I understand now that " " means something like at the moment. Not "after" and also not "while".Regarding pause, it is naturally present because of the pause by silent radical - without vowel on its preceding word . It is a complete verbal sentence, not a phrase or dependant clause; having verb, subject and a prespositional phrase relating to verb. The object pronoun of preposition refers to . Thus it is evident that this informative sentence is related to the point at issue
RED Then why did you not make " " in " " also a complete sentence?
GREEN but what exactly has "Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters." to do with us (for you the people at the time Mohammed lived)?
Thus what is the relation between Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters." vs " such matters, which if disclosed for you, it would be embarrassing or troublesome for you people "?Salaam,
Bender