Khatem,seal - end, can he/does he change his command?
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Salaam Kyle,
Here are all the forms that I know of which are used for Ta Ba 'Ayn.
tabaAAa - He has set a seal - He has no penetrative enery, sharpness, or effectiveness, in the affairs that are the means, or causes, of attaining honour, like the sword that is overspread with much rust. Rendered filthy, or foul .
tbaAAu - We put a seal
yatbaAAu - He sets a seal
tubiAAa - Is sealed
natbaAAu - We put a seal
Joe
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Peace be upon you Joe,
Can you do the same for the verses I gave, I want to work this thing out once and for all. We have been doing this for too long for us to only be at this level. Lets get some serious study going on here.
WHile you are doing that, I will try my best to give translations of the verses you just gave so we can see them all together(WHOLISTIC) and have a better view.
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Salaam Kyle,
These are the forms for Khatama.
Khatama - He sealed
khatama - Sea, last and best
nakhtimu - We sealed
yakhtim - He seals
makhtoom - Sealed one
Khitam - Sealing
Perhaps knowing something of the roots shall help as well.
Khatama - To seal, put a signet upon; stamp; imprint; end ; complete a thing. The primary signification is the covering over of a thing and securing oneself from a things entering it.
Tab'a - - To seal , imprint, print, stamp, impress , brand , fashion, make to be dirty , rusted . Signifies an innate disposition or temper or the like. It also signifies the constitution, nature, or temperament, or aggregate natural tendencies .
Joe
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Peace be upon you,
Ta-Ba-'Ayn. Tab'a - - To seal , imprint, print, stamp, impress , brand , fashion, make to be dirty , rusted . Signifies an innate disposition or temper or the like. It also signifies the constitution, nature, or temperament, or aggregate natural tendencies .
(4155) So with what their breaking/breaching (of) their promise/covenant, and their disbelief with The God's signs, and their killing (of) the prophets, without truth, and their saying "Our hearts (are) covered/uncomprehending." But The God tabaAAa on it, with their rejection, so they do not have faith except a few.
(7100) Or did He not guide to those inheriting the earth from after its people , that if We will, We struck/marked them because of their crimes, and We natbaAAu on their hearts , so they do not hear/listen?
(7101) Those are the towns, We recite on (to) you from its information/news, and their messengers had come to them with the clarification, so they were not to have faith with what they denied/falsified from before, like that The God yatbaAAu on the disbelievers' hearts.
(987) They accepted/approved with that they be with the remaining behind and, (it) was tubiAAa on their hearts so they do not understand.
(993) The path (is) on those who ask for permission/pardon of you and they are rich, they accepted ,with that they be with the remaining behind, and The God tabaAAa on their hearts, so they do not know.
(1074) Then We sent from after him messengers to their nations, so they came to them with the signs, so they were not to have faith with what they lied/denied/falsified with it from before, like that We natbaAAu on the transgressors' hearts.
(1610 They are those who The God tabaAAa on their hearts, and their hearing, and their eye sights, and those, they are the ignoring/neglecting/disregarding.
(3059) Like that The God yatbaAAu on the hearts of those who do not know.
(4035) "Those who argue in The God's signs without an authority (that) came to them, abhorrence/hatred becomes big at God, and at those who have faith, like that The God yatbaAAu on every arrogant, merciless heart."
(4716) And from them who listens to you until when they got out/emerged (left) from at you, they said to those who were given/brought the knowledge "What (did) he say just then?" They are those who The God tabaAAa on their hearts, and they followed their desires.
(633) That (is) because they had faith, then they rejected, so (it) was tubiAAa on their hearts, so they do not understand.
Khatama - To seal, put a signet upon; stamp; imprint; end ; complete a thing. The primary signification is the covering over of a thing and securing oneself from a things entering it.
(27) The God khatama on their hearts, and on their hearing, and on their seeing a cover(?) and for them (is) a great torture.
(646) Say "Do you see, if The God took your sense of hearing, and your seeing, and khatama on your hearts, which god other than The God comes to you with it?" See how We elaborate the signs, then they turn away.
(3340) One who is appreciative is not a father (of) anyone from your men, except The God's messenger, and the prophets' khatama, and The God is with every thing, knowing.
(3665) The time We nakhtimu on their mouths, and their hands converse/speak to Us , and their feet bear witness with what they were earning/acquiring
(4224) Or they say "He fabricated on (about) The God lies." So if The God wills, He yakhtim on your heart, and The God eliminates the falsehood, and The God corrects the truth with His words, surely He is knowledgeable with of the chests.
(4523) Did you see who took his desire (as) his god? And The God misguided him on knowledge, and He khatama on his hearing and His heart ,and He made on his seeing a cover, so who guides him from after The God? So do you not remember?
(8325) Thier drink from nectar/wine makhtoomin
(8326) Its khitamuhu (is) musk/fragrance, and in (for) that so the competitors should compete.
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Salaam,
I looked at a few of the ayaat containing the two words to try and figure what they implied. Khatem does seem to imply a closing seal , but such a one in which it is there to keep other things from intruding on what is already there . Just read the context of the sealings.
On the other hand the ayaat with Tab'a seem to show those sealings which present a disposition like the people who are already disposed to rejecting .
I'm sure a better study then a quick review is needed for a better understanding though.
Joe
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Salam,
but such a one in which it is there to keep other things from intruding on what is already there . Just read the context of the sealings.
So, no one should intrude and enter the domain of prophets. That is what I understand of KHATAM ANNABIYYEEN.
Salam all
Hussein
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Salaams marie,all,
marie said
"We all agree muhammad is not khatam of the messengers but of the prophets ."
He isn't Khatam of the prophets ,he was merely the Khatam of the prophets of his set as shown above - sorry to disagree.As i tried showing there are sets of a Messenger and prophets.
and in the case of the set(x) enclosing our Messenger ,Muhammad,there whern't going to be any more prophets in this case as he didn't have close blood male relatives - that is all.
Its the Messengers who recieve the revelation/book and not all prophets -as in the case of the brother of Moses who was a prophet but not a messenger.
Sorry if i created the confusion.
Salaams all.
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Salaam Hussein,
So, no one should intrude and enter the domain of prophets. That is what I understand of KHATAM ANNABIYYEEN.
Your reply seems erroneous and abject simply because no one would be no human being and thus you would be saing the nabiyy Allah are beings other than human beings. I think that perhaps muhammad is the domain of the nabiyeen for which other things like unnapproval are not vouchsafe.
Joe
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Peace be upon you all,
I am still studying and relecting on these verses, but two verses stand out to me regarding Khatama
(8325) Thier drink from nectar/wine makhtoomin
(8326) Its khitamuhu (is) musk/fragrance, and in (for) that so the competitors should compete.
It seems to me that the competitors (we are told to compete in righteous deeds) are competing for that "KHATAMA".
I have been studying ancient Kemetic(egyption) philosohpy because we are told to have faith in what descended to us and those before us. A "prophet" is considered to be only "one who talks to the God" as Musa did. Is Musa the only person to be able to do that? If so, why is he used as an example for us? Examples are to be followed, emulated. These verses seem to be telling us to compete to get to that level.
Lastly, just so no one is decieved to think Musa is the only one who spoke to the God,
(2253) Those are the messengers, We preferred/favoured/blessed some of them over some(others), from them who spoke/conversed/talked (with) God, and He rose some of them steps/stages/degrees...
Another interesting thing that I have been informed is that in the Old testament, it starts of praising the prophets, but at the end it villifies the prophets. Christianity and its sword intended to get rid of those who "talk to the God" so they could be mental slaves.
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Salam Joe,
Joe wrote
Your reply seems erroneous and abject simply because no one would be no human being and thus you would be saing the nabiyy Allah are beings other than human beings
I am saying that the Nabiyy Allah are people like other people, who recieved guidance from GOD in a more special way than others. The prophet Muhammad is the seal of this group. Basically saying, after him, no one will be of this special group.
People don't have to be prophets to be righteous. People will receive Wahy, but not in the same way as the prophets. You don't become subhuman if you are not a prophet and you don't become superhuman if you are a prophet.
Salam
Hussein
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Salaam Hussein,
I am saying that the Nabiyy Allah are people like other people, who recieved guidance from GOD in a more special way than others. The prophet Muhammad is the seal of this group. Basically saying, after him, no one will be of this special group.
I understand that the station of being a nabi is a distinguished group just as muslimeen and mumin are, but I do not understand this idea you have of nabiyy Allah recieving wahy/inspiration in a more special way. Muhammad is the seal in what way is still what I've not determined.
People don't have to be prophets to be righteous. People will receive Wahy, but not in the same way as the prophets.
Why won't they? You're still distinguishing people from nabiyeen as if nabiyeen are not people. Show me where the quran says that people do not recieve wahy/inspiration the same as nabiyeen, who are people.
You don't become subhuman if you are not a prophet and you don't become superhuman if you are a prophet.
Let's keep this in mind.
Joe
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Peace be upon you hlatif,
People will receive Wahy, but not in the same way as the prophets.
Can you elaborate on the difference?
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Salam Idolfree,
Can you elaborate on the difference?
In my humble opinion, the difference is that people that receive Wahy may not know about it, except later. However, prophets knew about it, either through speaking to GOD (moses) or through the Ruh Qudos.......
Hussein
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Salaam Hlatif,
I'm sure your opinion is probably from personal experience in these matters. ) Now, I'd still like for you to show me where what you say is a determination projected in alquran. I'm not sure how learned you are in wahy/inspiration, but even the little devils give us wahy . D The perception of inspiration you may have seems to be something of an 'out of the ordinary' occurance when in fact it is quite the norm and is something that is ever in progress and action. Why you're probably getting it now and you probably know of it.
Joe
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Brother Joe Salam and peace,
Your post is very intelligent and very complex. I probably misunderstood most of it. I did get the feeling that you are sending some negative signals towards me. please forgive me if I am mistaken.
I'm not sure how learned you are in wahy/inspiration, but even the little devils give us wahy . The perception of inspiration you may have seems to be something of an 'out of the ordinary' occurance when in fact it is quite the norm and is something that is ever in progress and action. Why you're probably getting it now and you probably know of it.
This can apply to all of us brother Joe, including you
Salam
Hussein
PS I don't hink that I claimed Wahy -
Salaam Hussein,
No, no ill will meant towards you in my post. I know what I said applies to all people, even myself. That is what I was saying. You do not need to claim wahy for you to be getting it. I never claimed it either, but I do get it from this ilah, myself, and all the messages out and about. It is a subtle and normal thing. Still, I'd like for you to bring forth the proofs asked for because we are asked to not hide it .
Joe
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Salam Joe,
Thanks for the clarification. I do apologise for misunderstanding your message. Since you and I agree that humans receive Wahy from GOD and from the little devils (Shayateen), then one will have to be sure that they receive the Wahy from GOD. To me, the only way to be sure, is that GOD should tell the prophet that he is prophet. If that did not happen, then no one can be sure that the Wahy came from GOD.
Examples
341 He said "O my Lord! Give me a Sign!" "Thy Sign," was the answer, "Shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three days but with signals. Then celebrate the praises of thy Lord again and again, and glorify Him in the evening and in the morning."Here, Zacharia is talking to the Angels that promised him that he is going to have a son. He knew that this was a message from GOD. Yet, he still needed more proof.
Moses 267-71. He was waiting for the message from GOD whenever they asked him a question and he was sure that the message was from GOD
2247-248 The prophet of the Israelites was certain that he talked to GOD even when he was challenged.by his people. he brought a sign to the people and to himself.Then there is this AYAH
693 Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against Allah, or saith, "I have received inspiration," when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, "I can reveal the like of what Allah hath revealed"? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death! - the angels stretch forth their hands, (saying),"Yield up your souls this day shall ye receive your reward,- a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against Allah, and scornfully to reject
of His signs!"So, one has to be reassured BY GOD (or his Angels)- in my opnion- that he has received Wahy. Short of that is insufficient.
Salam and have a great evening
Hussein
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Salaam Hussein,
I feel like I'm being dragged into a fairy tale with the proofs you decided to use to back up your case. Allah is associated with alhaqq/the determined truth and those of It's followers who ascertain the truth/haqq are reassured by it's verification.
If one were to examine the situation with the way you're going about it then the 'magicians' of firAAawn can reassure one of the truth with the false ayat that they brought. Do you see what I'm saying, these ayaat that you are looking at are 'out of this world' to me, they are ideas of the land called Fantasia.
Besides, none of the situations you related to were of ayat sent forth to prove one being a nabi.
Joe
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Salam Joe,
My previous point, in light of AYAH 693 that a person should never claim the he/she received revelation from GOD until he/she is sure. Otherwise, the person risks being in error. Since in my definition that a Nabi is a person that declares receiving revelation from GOD, that is very important. I never disputed AL HAQQ, I just dispute when a person should claim having received it.
It could be that we have different understandings what a Nabiyy is. therefore, our possible misunderstandings. You defined a Nabiyy as this in another post.
Joe saidI think the nabiyeen/informers are the people who make leaps in their understanding of the truth and then they share it with others
Since you asked me earlier to present proofs. I think that it is your turn to present proofs that this definition is correct.
Salam
Hussein