Why don't you ask Bukhari lovers about silly things found in hadiths?
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I suppose it is hard to get them listening. The answer why such details are not to be found in Quran is because they do not even exist. They practice a ritualistic prayer that never existed except in Paganism. Obey the messenger command is in the matters that he taught and what he taught is present in the recitation that they read, so it is quite redundant questions that they rhetorically ask in a way that seems ironical to them.
Salaam
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But guys, it would be interesting to see how they craft their own explanations in support of Mr Bukhari.
Interesting to see? It's sad to see and it's not entertainment.
But I never see you guys pressuring them to answer why hadith books have so many contradictions.
Can't you guys be a little more challenging to them?
For something more challenging, perhaps you can talk to some of Bukhari lovers in real life, and I wonder if you really want to pressure them to answer why hadith books have so many contradictions.
In my opinion, pressuring them (or challenging them) is not effective way to make them "wake/aware", especially if the "Bukhari lovers" are our own relatives or friends in real life.
Salm.
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It's pretty much like talking to walls in my experience.
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In my opinion, pressuring them (or challenging them) is not effective way to make them "wake/aware", especially if the "Bukhari lovers" are our own relatives or friends in real life.
Since you guys are following Quran, I don't think they have the right to ask you the questions I listed in the beginning. Sure your views aren't part of their comfort zone. But the contents given by Mr Bukhari are neither reasonable nor practical and hence, its actually you guys who should ask them to prove that the contradictions are legitimate. The idea is to reveal to the world their true identity. I believe anyone who has evil intention towards Islam will go to any extent to defend hadith books.
The debates I read here and on other forums left me puzzled and shocked. It was like a bell ringing in my head. I couldn't believe that some people who call them pious and true believers would behave exactly like the polytheists who humiliated the Prophets every time they told them that Allah is the true creator and we need to follow him.
Unfortunately, tons of evil scholars are now standing up against the Muslims. A search in google shows that their contents against Muslims outperform the contents refuting hadith books. This is highly dangerous. Remember what happened to Quranist group which stood up against the hadith books in Egypt? I fear that this might spread all around the world. Since this site performs well in google (esp the debates with bukhari lovers), the future ones must contain challenges against hadith books. At least those who have doubt about hadith books will be able to come to conclusion that their hunches were correct.
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I think when we take hadith as a block we are not doing justice to facts. In fact the first and foremost error is to have established such a thing as a category called "hadith".
How can anything where the best is put in together with the most aberrant and dirty be classified as the same category.
We must destroy the idea of such category. There are no hadith, that is a fiction.
On the other hand what there is is miscellaneous writings attributed to some people, some of them with real value attending to its content. Some of them indifferent and may be of some folkloric or history research interest, and some of them absolutely repulsive and worthy of criminal prosecution fo slander if that were possible for old nonsense.
So we might collect those writings that enclose real spiritual insight and merit or wisdom and forget hadith and call them something like "Spiritual writings of miscellaneous atribution".
And drop the rest. Those looking for history research will use whatever material they deem usable, but never pretend that it has the "religious" endorsement. And the shit, drop it. It is slander and blasfemous dirtying of people who are not there to defend themselves.
Do away with the religious concept of "hadith". There is no such a thing. What is slander must be brandished us such. What is pornography must also be brandished us such. Away with it. I will never again speak about hadith.
Salaam
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I think we may be overlooking an important reality. Bukhari is especially popular in sunnism. Sunnism is not just a religious sect. Make no mistake about it, it's a political national movement. No different from zionism, sunnism is abusing religious concepts to promote a national political goal that is to establish a sunni caliphate - and return to a medieval Arab culture from 1400 years ago that only existed in their minds. Sure, we can expose any of the lies that contradict Quran. Fighting a political movement however is a different matter. This explains why it's often so difficult to convince them of the contradiction in hadith. They are not authorized by that political power to even question it.
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Sunnism is not just a religious sect
Majority of the sunnis think it is a religious sect. That's how they are diverted from true Islam. Ex If you don't copy the Prophet found in hadith books you will go to hell.
Only the critical thinkers like you guys and sunni leaders know its a political movement. Biggest problem we have is that in other parts of the world, critical thinking is discouraged especially when it comes to religions. Couple of days ago, a user from Yahoo answers said that she was taught by her religion teacher that it is forbidden for general public to read the translated version of Quran ???
Salam, false sayings of respectable men (prophets, messengers, saints, etc..) has infiltrated all major religions. No point in mocking it.
Its not about mocking. Actually, I see bukhari lovers mocking Muslims (Hadith rejectors in their view) and Quran. It looks they don't even believe in Quran. See example
From a Bukhari lover
how does he know the Qur?an is from Allah ta?ala? what is the proof for him? that Allah ta?ala said so in the Book?Their own ignorance can cost a life of someone who rejected blind obedience to hadith books. Thats what scares the hell out of me.
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Its not about mocking. Actually, I see bukhari lovers mocking Muslims (Hadith rejectors in their view) and Quran. It looks they don't even believe in Quran. See example
From a Bukhari lover
how does he know the Qur?an is from Allah ta?ala? what is the proof for him? that Allah ta?ala said so in the Book?Their own ignorance can cost a life of someone who rejected blind obedience to hadith books. Thats what scares the hell out of me.
Interesting response from a "Bukhari Lover"..
The question itself is valid..
The next step should be; he should apply the same 'critical thinking' to Bukhari's books.. apply the same standard to himself..Salam / Peace
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The next step should be; he should apply the same 'critical thinking' to Bukhari's books.. apply the same standard to himself..
lol very true...but I thought the questions were extremely dumb. Just now popped in the head, if someone needs hadith books to know the legitimacy of Quran then probably he sees Allah<Bukhari.